I am confused: what exactly are American ideals?

[Trandoshan]

I'll see you in Forbes Magazine, Coous.

 

Just put a little elbow grease in it, and you will be there in no time.

[SpellAndShield]

So just because pursuit of happiness isn't easy dose not mean it's unachievable. Still till this day you can pursue a dream and end up doing something you love for a living. Even today if you're actually serious and willing to stick out through all the hard times and have great determination you can make something of yourself. There is nothing stopping a young person from going to college financially,because if he sticks to it and does good and don't reliant there's many scholarships to be have you just need to put effort and determination into it. It's not all about being a CEO or being rich it's about finding something you love and doing it.

 

Thanks to Aurielius for putting up that quote from Franklin.

"The U.S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." -- Benjamin Franklin

 

You won't gain what you want easily you have to work,and work hard to do it.

 

Our greatest happiness does not depend on the condition of life in which chance has placed us, but is always the result of a good conscience, good health, occupation, and freedom in all just pursuits." -- Thomas Jefferson

 

This is ta otally bogus and insanely naive fallacy. Chance and/or circumstance are EVERYTHING. It is blindingly obvious, is it not?

[Trandoshan]

 

This is ta otally bogus and insanely naive fallacy. Chance and/or circumstance are EVERYTHING. It is blindingly obvious, is it not?

 

Chance, and circumstance... Everything? Spoken like an outsider to the 'American' opportunity. I suppose I should give you a wonderful reference that is easy for an 'American' to understand

 

perhaps a movie based on a true story (If you believe that 'true story happy ending' BS.)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xcZTtlGweQ

 

Both you and Coous are only halfway to the center of the sun. The trailer makes it seem like it was all effort, but it was more than just effort... trust me....

 

Movie got some tears from me at the very least.

 

Chance and circumstance are wasted without effort. You can't sit in a chair, do nothing, and inherit a fortune. On the other end, you can't toil away in the soil and hope to sow the seed of this 'great' American dream that doesn't really exist. I think it's blindingly dull to not take a couple step back and understand how some of the billionaires got their fortune through misfortune and tough spins. It takes opportunity, and it takes a man with the will to push through and take that opportunity. By the way, welcome to the millionaire club, Stardusk. Coous made it to the top with his pure hard work before you sadly...

 

If you take the time and watch the movie I suggested you watch (Which also is the life story of billionare Chris Gardner), you would see that when opportunity reared it's head, Chris jumped on it as fast as possible. He did this despite spending his life as a beggar for a few months.

 

In summary, success is a culmination of work and opportunity. Though it would be a jest to say that everyone in America has this opportunity, and many of us are too lazy to even pursue any of these opportunities.

 

I hope you consider the prior statements before you reply, and my apologies if I seemed angry.

[SpellAndShield]

 

This is ta otally bogus and insanely naive fallacy. Chance and/or circumstance are EVERYTHING. It is blindingly obvious, is it not?

 

Chance, and circumstance... Everything? Spoken like an outsider to the 'American' opportunity. I suppose I should give you a wonderful reference that is easy for an 'American' to understand

 

perhaps a movie based on a true story (If you believe that 'true story happy ending' BS.)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xcZTtlGweQ

 

Both you and Coous are only halfway to the center of the sun. The trailer makes it seem like it was all effort, but it was more than just effort... trust me....

 

Movie got some tears from me at the very least.

 

Chance and circumstance are wasted without effort. You can't sit in a chair, do nothing, and inherit a fortune. On the other end, you can't toil away in the soil and hope to sow the seed of this 'great' American dream that doesn't really exist. I think it's blindingly dull to not take a couple step back and understand how some of the billionaires got their fortune through misfortune and tough spins. It takes opportunity, and it takes a man with the will to push through and take that opportunity. By the way, welcome to the millionaire club, Stardusk. Coous made it to the top with his pure hard work before you sadly...

 

If you take the time and watch the movie I suggested you watch (Which also is the life story of billionare Chris Gardner), you would see that when opportunity reared it's head, Chris jumped on it as fast as possible. He did this despite spending his life as a beggar for a few months.

 

In summary, success is a culmination of work and opportunity. Though it would be a jest to say that everyone in America has this opportunity, and many of us are too lazy to even pursue any of these opportunities.

 

I hope you consider the prior statements before you reply, and my apologies if I seemed angry.

 

Sure, effort is important, but chance, innate ability, unforeseen opportunity are far more important.

 

A person who is enormously gifted in mathematics might make a 10% effort that surpassed 99% of his classmates, some of whom are putting 100% effort.

 

You might be the only survivor of a deadly train wreck because your seat was positioned in a certain way.

 

Paris Hilton did nothing for her money and continues to do nothing.

 

You should watch the film Matchpoint.

 

Success is ultimately about luck and innate skill (genetics); effort is important but not nearly as important as these things.

[Trandoshan]

A person who is enormously gifted in mathematics might make a 10% effort that surpassed 99% of his classmates, some of whom are putting 100% effort.

 

I'm one of those people, sadly. So I can't retort. However, there is always this one chick in my class who does nothing but study, and always seems to get a higher grade than me. I hate being the second best, but I guess she deserves it.

 

I guess you're right though. A lazy person who makes a 100% is obviously happy. Sadly, his lack of effort in doing tasks will ultimately be his downfall in the 'working world'.

 

You might be the only survivor of a deadly train wreck because your seat was positioned in a certain way.

nt as these things.

 

The thing is, this passage isn't as relevant to the argument as it seems. I guess this is due to the fact that you don't get a job nor money because you survived a trainwreck. You get a good talking piece though, hehe.

 

 

You should watch the film Matchpoint.

 

Not a true story, sadly. Find another good movie. I need a good convincing apparently.

 

Paris Hilton did nothing for her money and continues to do nothing.

 

Actually, Paris Hilton is a shrewd Businesswoman. At least her perfume, line of clothing, and actressing says so. Do you know how much stress people in the public eye are in? Tom Cruise went insane because of the ever watchful public eye. It's not as easy as you think.

 

 

Success is ultimately about luck and innate skill (genetics); effort is important but not nearly as important as these things.

 

Not all genetically endowed people are rich and famous, sadly. Look at Paris Hilton. She does nothing and gets paid. Oh wait. forget about that. hehe.

 

 

------

 

You've got a small point. However, think about this. Without effort, luck is useless. If you don't follow up on that business meeting and spend some time making a well-constructed power point, then Joe is going to get your job. I'm retaining my opinion that they are yin and yang when it comes to life.

 

You've got to meet luck halfway, or you're screwed.

[Burnagirl]

As a non American (but one who has a great love for the US of A) I'd like to say the following;

 

My first impression was that this topic starter "was" an American who was perhaps a bit concerned in their thinking as to "where is my counrty going ? " and wanted to get back

to their roots, so to speak.

As to whether this is so or not, based on some of the replies I've read here makes little difference to me.

This is how I'm going to answer or reply to this.

 

In British America revolt was brewing (pardon the pun) and poured out in Boston where the colonists resisted explotation by the British Crown concerning taxes placed on tea and

dumped three shiploads of the stuff into the ocean.

 

This was a major turning point in US history and basically everything from that point onwards pointed to a bloody revolution ... please remember that at that time the average was that

there was only about nine bullets to every gun in the colonies.

And Britian was the superpower of the day.

It was almost like your local police force vs the US army ... that's how the odds were stacked against the colonists, yet despite all odds they prevailed.

 

On the 4th of July 1776 the Declaration of Independance was adopted, now here comes my answer to your question, (finally, I hear you say lol), the second sentence of the Declaration of Independance

says this - "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

 

This is a snapshot of what American ideals are, this is what America was built on and many still hold fast to these ideals.

 

well that's all from me for now.

 

Tot siens (until we meet again).

[Surenas]

I recall the later shift in the mentioned paradigm:

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others!"

This has made at least the pigs of the Animal Farm happier... for a while or two.

 

The only remarkable American ideal I'm aware of follows from the proud answer given to me by a good friend on why he has bought a Motorola Handy and no other:

"I have to support my country!"

 

Ummh! Okay... :woot:

 

tot ziens

http://www.abload.de/img/anne9hol.gif

[SpellAndShield]

I recall the later shift in the mentioned paradigm:

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others!"

This has made at least the pigs of the Animal Farm happier... for a while or two.

 

The only remarkable American ideal I'm aware of follows from the proud answer given to me by a good friend on why he has bought a Motorola Handy and no other:

"I have to support my country!"

 

Ummh! Okay... :woot:

 

tot ziens

http://www.abload.de/img/anne9hol.gif

 

Bagels are good here...sometimes.

[nosisab]

Anyone wishing to point a finger toward others should care it's not dirt. Historically USA had a role in that was one the worser times in our recent history. So yes, USA do interferes with foreign affairs, yet those that blames USA for everything good or bad should look at themselves and see how lenient and unable to create the own government and most that does are in the worst for it.

 

USA manages the strings of many foreign politicians, it's true, but here is where that "Chance/circumstance" so dearly defended by the OP plays the real role. Our politicians are corrupts and corrupting, this is the sad reality. Very few aren't, these tends to be expelled from the scene if press too much against the status quo. As Brazilian I'm ashamed to recognize here the corruption and scandals are so many and the lenience so grand than these figures aren't ever concerned about being caught anymore. When it happens they slides, a few times some resign the post just to return anew in more important other.

 

That's the picture of the country of chance and opportunity, not a beautiful one. Mankind has proved not being good at anything, not even as a predator. Natural predator does not struggles to extinguish the prey as we do, being predator and prey the same just turns things worser.

 

Look behind most those that claims against USA and you'll see a sad example of government. There is no space for manichaeism anymore, least than ever in these times of global interaction and communication... everything is gray with only a few barely brighter or darker spots.

 

Resuming: If the growth does not benefits the whole organism it's just the most malign carcinoma.

 

PS addendum: If the government that oppresses foreigns is bad how to qualify the government that oppress the own people?

[Aurielius]

I recall the later shift in the mentioned paradigm:

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others!"

This has made at least the pigs of the Animal Farm happier... for a while or two.

It is revealing that you quote Orwell to decry American ideals, whose novel "Animal Farm" was an indictment of Stalin's form of totalitarianism.

 

The only remarkable American ideal I'm aware of follows from the proud answer given to me by a good friend on why he has bought a Motorola Handy and no other:"I have to support my country!"

I think that American ideals were well represented by the 104,839 US serviceman buried in European cemeteries. This is a view of the Netherlands American Cemetery which lies in the village of Margraten. I think that they are more eloquent than I can ever be about our ideals.

 

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/2339/dutchcemetary.jpg