Respect

[kvnchrist]

Could someone please tell me the upside of commenting on each other instead of the topic at hand? I've never been able to wrap my mind around this, unless the persons where so far of track that they were detracting from the topic instead of adding to it.

 

Is there some reason why it is somehow wrong to agree with each other or disagreeing with others without someone coming in an making derogatory remarks about this and that group. I have heard of something called "Group think" which to me is simply agreeing with those people are idealistically alighned with, but is it automatically true that these very people stop thinking as individuals if they agree with each other on many things. IF one supports another's opinion with their own opinion, does that somehow invalidate those opinions or the people who make them?

 

As I've stated before, I don't know diddly about certain subjects that have been discussed here, but what is ever learned from people thumbing their nose at others for not arising to some level of standards that those who make them, almost assuredly haven't always kept? I'm painfully aware of my own level of hypocrisy in this case, so I'm not talking down to anyone. I'm simply asking why?

[JimboUK]

I think I know the post that led to this and it wasn't worth responding too, as for attacking the person rather than the argument, that tends to happen when the attacker has lost or is being beaten, it's a good sign when someone does that.

 

One of my favourite quotes....

 

[Marxist ßastard]

Isn't that, in itself, a personal attack?

 

I mean, if someone is sitting there saying that 2 + 2 is 3, pretty likely someone else will call them out on being an idiot. The second person will have committed the sin of (gasp!) ad hominem. So what? It doesn't mean the first simply wins the debate, and 2 + 2 really is 3. First, because reality doesn't operate on JV debate team rules. Second, because there wasn't a debate in the first place, just some random idiot shouting something contrary to objective fact, all by their lonesome.

[HeyYou]

Isn't that, in itself, a personal attack?

 

I mean, if someone is sitting there saying that 2 + 2 is 3, pretty likely someone else will call them out on being an idiot. The second person will have committed the sin of (gasp!) ad hominem. So what? It doesn't mean the first simply wins the debate, and 2 + 2 really is 3. First, because reality doesn't operate on JV debate team rules. Second, because there wasn't a debate in the first place, just some random idiot shouting something contrary to objective fact, all by their lonesome.

That assumes the initial point is indeed incorrect. We also end up with folks telling the guy saying 2+2=4 is wrong, because some unknown number of scientists said so....... doesn't make it false either.

[Arcadiast]

There are several factors to consider in this topic

 

Some are:

 

- Age

- Education

- Upbringing

- cultural Background

- "Character" (which usually is a result of a combination of the other factors)

- emotional state

etc.

 

7 Billion People on this Planet and every day new people get access to the internet. There is no "Bouncer" in the internets (may that never change) so you never know who comes in. It may be a genius, intellectual, artist, doctor, philosopher but it may also be a low-life, bum, ignorant and imbecile fool or something in between. All Sizes all Shapes.

 

So as you can see, its more than likely that you will meet someone who just flatout goes ahead and insults you. Youtube comments are famous examples of what kind of audience is around in the net.

 

Reasons? there are many here are some:

 

- "over-sensitivity" to certain topics (Person X feels himself offended by something Person Y wrote even if it was not directed at him. Very common with Religious topics. Example: god/prophet/deity X does not exist because.....). Thats why the Nexus does not allow Religious Debates. They are practically impossible to moderate.

 

- immaturity leading to a different view of situation (common among mostly but not only with teenagers. Some find it "cool" to use strong words or just offend someone. Thats a type of "fun" for them)

 

- plain ignorance (some people are just too "uninformed" to realize they are actually attacking somebody). The saddest thing about ignorance is, at some level of ignorance, some people are just to ignorant to realize their ignorance so trying to tell it to them (you are wrong/misinformed etc.) is practically futile.

 

etc.

 

The real question is, what to do if someone like that comes across? (which is sure to happen at some point). Well, what would you do when you were on a social meeting with friends and their friends friends and somebody you just meet is a total "jackass" (at least from your point of view). I dont know what you would do but if I were there I would exchange the minimum of social interaction and otherwise concentrate on people who I am more comfortable with. I use the same tecnique in the net. If somebody "derails" from the point or gets overly sensitive etc. then I try and stay calm either exchanging one last polite goodbye or ignore him alltogether.

 

I think thats something people tend to forget. You are free to ignore people in forums or the net. If people would use this freedom instead of trying to "wrestle down the pig" (which is pointless by the way) many of those "aggressors" would lose their incentive (whats the point of insulting someone if nobody hears you?).

Edited September 22, 2014 by Arcadiast

[kvnchrist]

Yes, but what is the upside to all of this. Anger spreading misery to what gain? Does it lead to anything beneficial to anyone, even the perpetrator?

 

Situations like these seem to be more about a person, either discovering or concealing something about themselves more than those the direct their anger upon. Where would all this come from and how could someone deal with these internal struggles in a way that would allow them to grew?

 

I know that there are some that have a set ideal about an area of experience, but that should not bring them to anger unless they also have a prejudicial view of those who call that experience into question. It would seem to me that those who carry something like that around them have a burden to much for them to carry. That would seem to me to be a very alone person.

 

I wonder how many loners do we have here and if these people are more alone than those of us who are loners and can still communicate between each other without offense.

[kvnchrist]

Isn't that, in itself, a personal attack?

 

I mean, if someone is sitting there saying that 2 + 2 is 3, pretty likely someone else will call them out on being an idiot. The second person will have committed the sin of (gasp!) ad hominem. So what? It doesn't mean the first simply wins the debate, and 2 + 2 really is 3. First, because reality doesn't operate on JV debate team rules. Second, because there wasn't a debate in the first place, just some random idiot shouting something contrary to objective fact, all by their lonesome.

Commenting on the actions of some without providing a direct connection between the action and the producer of that action is not an attack on anyone,

 

The idea of debating is transferring information and personal attacks close off more avenues than they open. Some people might be uninformed or simply devoid of any knowledge in those areas and simple respect opens up a dialog between everyone.

[HeyYou]

Either that, or perhaps the accuser has his opinion, and refuses to accept even the remotest possibility that he hay be wrong....... and from the absolute certainty that he is 'correct', he assumes everyone else must be idiots.

[Arcadiast]

 

Yes, but what is the upside to all of this. Anger spreading misery to what gain? Does it lead to anything beneficial to anyone, even the perpetrator?

indeed there can be actually a "benefit" depending on situation and person. For example, Corporations are now fully aware of how some opinions on some major Communication Portals can effect their business. Normally they would try to "fight" against those who bash their products either deliberately or based on misinformation (one example: Game X is going to change function Y. Burn Company Z). However, this can work the other way around, where paid agents are employed to disturb or even destroy some unwanted Channels sometime especially because they are offering deserved critic.

 

So its not completely unlikely that somebody may benefit from such behaviour. The majority I think does not belong to such "conspirative" actions. They are as I said, either still immature or just plain "uninformed" people. They have no benefit from their actions whatsoever quite the opposite in fact. By derailing any topic that could actually turn into a informative or even educating channel they strip others but also themselves from gaining more knowledge. In the Information Age, knowledge means money means a wealthy life. That may sound a little over the top but small losses can accumulate to a big personal catastrophe. There is also a impact on the emotional state of that person. Sooner or later, someone who tends to offend people will always get some form of harsch critic back. Hearing this over and over will leave their marks on the pyschology of the person. This will reflect to their real lives at some point and maybe cost money, friends, job and other opportunities that could bring them more happiness in life.

 

So the answer is no, unless you follow a specific "James Bondesque" Task, you will have no benefit from offending people. One should at least try to maintain the most basic form of respect against other people. If its true that "what goes around comes around" than i rather have respect come around then hate or ignorance, wouldnt you agree?

 

 

Situations like these seem to be more about a person, either discovering or concealing something about themselves more than those the direct their anger upon. Where would all this come from and how could someone deal with these internal struggles in a way that would allow them to grew?

 

This ones simple. I dont know! :smile:. Well, this is going into the depths of Human Psychology which is a profession I have only a friction of knowledge of the most basics of. If I had to guess however, I would say that most people will mature with age and experience (like me for example...I had my fair share of "idiocy" when I was young. Still no genius but reflecting on some of my past the difference is "galactic"). Some may miss that somehow (its not guarenteed unfortunately), then life gets really nasty. Coping with missed things later in life is most difficult indeed. Its like learning a new language, as a kid you barely remember how you learned your mother language and as an adult most find it immensely diffucult to learn even the basics of a new language.

 

Of course there are people who are just "evil". To cite Joker from the Batman Movie "some People just want to see the world burn". So all I said I say under the premise that we are talking about "normal" people. I have no doubt whatsoever that there are some people in the nets that exactly know that they are offending people, are exactly aware that they are doing this with full knowledge that they are wrong (but they dont care) and are doing it because they perversly enjoy the misery of other people. I had the "pleasure" to call one such person my "friend" for a long time (until I realized what he was and that he was not gonna change).

 

 

I know that there are some that have a set ideal about an area of experience, but that should not bring them to anger unless they also have a prejudicial view of those who call that experience into question. It would seem to me that those who carry something like that around them have a burden to much for them to carry. That would seem to me to be a very alone person.

 

I have been humbled once to many times to even assume anything like that. There is no way for me to know somebody just based on a few internet comments he wrote. So it may be a sad Person in need of help but it may also be the person I mentioned who just wants to make you suffer for his own pleasure. Just my humble advice, dont put to much thinking into it unless you plan to actually study psychology and make it a professional goal of your life. You wlil only waste your time.

 

Never forget, I am just as much a "random internet person" to you as you are to me. The chances that some great Doctor or Psychologist will come to this forum and enlight us is quite slim indeed.

 

 

I wonder how many loners do we have here and if these people are more alone than those of us who are loners and can still communicate between each other without offense.

 

I was lonely once in my life (for two years I was in a different City for Work where I had no friends and only one Collegue with whom I got along...who was just as miserable as I was). My salvation came with Bicycling. I started driving 50 to 100 km a day (the alternative was sitting around in my one room apartment and be miserable). I stayed lonely for a while but my mood changed dramatically. I was not whining as much as usual (which is a good way to keep people away actually...if one would want that) and soon enough I was getting along better with other collegues and also started making Bicycle tours after work.

 

So if anybody who reads this thinks he is lonely, pick your favorite sport that is within your potential and start enjoying. That may help. (No guarentees though :smile: )

Edited September 22, 2014 by Arcadiast

[Gamerbird]

I believe that we currently live in a society where anything you say/do is completely dependent on Gender/Sexuality/Race/Religion etc. I've experienced it in my own workplace where the topic of discussion was which XFactor UK judge was better looking, Cheryl Cole of Mel B. Two of my colleagues were discussing this and I decided to participate as some other colleagues had said, where I completely disagreed with the two initial people having conversation (my managers) where I was promptly called out on disagreeing with the statement of 'What would you know, you're a f***ing puff'. Which brings my point to a close, just because I'm not a hetrosexual and find women attractive my point is completely invalid on who is the better looking of two women. However they are able to just as quickly comment on two men which is the better looking. This is all simply down to me being a different sexuality to everyone else.

 

You only ever have respect if you are seen as 'normal' by the majority in my opinion.