Endorsements, Players, and Modders

[guantanamobayxx]

I want to talk about something that has been seriously bothering me these past few months. I know the Nexus site workers only changed some of their endorsement methods within the past few months, but it still hasn't seem to have had a major effect for the modders in comparison to their downloads and in endorsing them.

Which brings me to a larger issue - We, as players, and our role in the community.

If you ever look at newer files these days, heck, even older greats that still play huge roles in our games and that we can't even imagine mods not being compatible with them anymore, you'll see a few thousand endorsements, and -tens of thousands of downloads-. I am not a modder, but a player. Are we as a gaming community that ungrateful toward these scripting geniuses and graphical artists for the many hours of work they do to make our gaming more enjoyable, immersive, and fun? They've fixed problems with Skyrim Bethesda couldn't be arsed to do before release, they don't make us pay to play like the company, they accomplish feats most gamers (and hell even some actual employed gaming developers) couldn't even begin to fathom, they basically took an unfinished game (You know Bethesda does these things on purpose, and now we're left with an MMO that these modding artists can't even work on before we'll see the next TES game for -years- to come) and went above and beyond any of our expectations to revamp a beloved game to be a completely optimized and personalized to each player's taste in ways most of us players never imagined possible.

And how do we, as gamers, repay them? We leave scathing comments on pages. We use their mods and never endorse, letting great mods get swept under the rug because we didn't bother to show our appreciation with one simple click of a button, the artist is never more well-known because we're too lazy, selfish, and ungrateful to show our appreciation to these people for their massive amounts of work. Just like in real life, an artist never receives the adulation and credit due -without the support of the community in which the artist publishes their work-. What's worse is that these people aren't even asking for money (Don't even get me started on the people STEALING mods from the nexus to sell on second-life, seriously?), they do it because they love the game, and most of all, love us as players and a community.

I think it's time we returned the favor they all do for us and click a damn button, people. And maybe show a little respect on the comment pages when relaying technical issues found or expressing our critique for the mod in question. I -especially- uphold the latter. Those that partake in that sort of scathing behavior I can conclude are nothing more than narcissists that think they're better than those that make these mods without asking anything in return, when in reality I'm sure none of them have ever even spent one minute trying to learn how to make the things themselves. I think we as players need to reexamine our part in the community, as we are -far- from a dead community, and start showing real appreciation to modding artists.

[N7R]

Please don't put all gamers under the same bus. I endorse practically every mod I use in Skyrim and I know how to leave constructive feedback if an issue arises with a mod. I first check to see if it's a conflict with another mod of course or something on my end before I take it up with a mod author. I am not a modder for Skyrim but I am for another game so I know the amount of years, months, weeks, days, and hours a single mod can take at times.

 

Not everyone will endorse but many still do. I think it's great the buttons are more easily accessible but a ton of new Skyrim players come and go and don't really understand all the features the nexus site has or really know what 'endorse' means I bet. There will always be a huge difference between players and modders in ratio. As a modder you go in knowing full well you'll most likely be a shadow force many wont give the time of day even if they use your mod for countless hours. The glory in being a modder is not to get recognized as much as the personal stuff you take away from it. Such as, the satisfaction you contributed, learned, and made something of your own that can be enjoyed and shared by many.

 

I could go on but my time is limited at this moment. I hear what you are saying and I know you mean well but for every player that doesn't give the appreciation I'm sure the Skyrim modders know their work is indeed appreciated when they see it showing up on youtube or screenshots. I know in my modding community the biggest thanks any player can give me is when I am google searching for something completely irrelevant to the mods I made and see images of my stuff and I'm like "hey thats pretty crazy my mod has become so widespread I can find it this far out, thats pretty cool".

[Valkasha]

As a mod author, I couldn't care less about endorsements. If people don't like my mod that's too bad. It's not like I'm getting money for my endorsements. If you appreciate a modders work, give donations.

[guantanamobayxx]

Please don't put all gamers under the same bus. I endorse practically every mod I use in Skyrim and I know how to leave constructive feedback if an issue arises with a mod. I first check to see if it's a conflict with another mod of course or something on my end before I take it up with a mod author. I am not a modder for Skyrim but I am for another game so I know the amount of years, months, weeks, days, and hours a single mod can take at times.

 

Not everyone will endorse but many still do. I think it's great the buttons are more easily accessible but a ton of new Skyrim players come and go and don't really understand all the features the nexus site has or really know what 'endorse' means I bet. There will always be a huge difference between players and modders in ratio. As a modder you go in knowing full well you'll most likely be a shadow force many wont give the time of day even if they use your mod for countless hours. The glory in being a modder is not to get recognized as much as the personal stuff you take away from it. Such as, the satisfaction you contributed, learned, and made something of your own that can be enjoyed and shared by many.

 

I could go on but my time is limited at this moment. I hear what you are saying and I know you mean well but for every player that doesn't give the appreciation I'm sure the Skyrim modders know their work is indeed appreciated when they see it showing up on youtube or screenshots. I know in my modding community the biggest thanks any player can give me is when I am google searching for something completely irrelevant to the mods I made and see images of my stuff and I'm like "hey thats pretty crazy my mod has become so widespread I can find it this far out, thats pretty cool".

This is exactly what I mean, I'm not trying to stuff all of us under the same bus. Like I said I'm not a modder either. You and I are totally on the same page here. And I suppose my statement isn't completely about simply endorsements, but how we as players as part of a modding community can show our appreciation better, and really, how we all treat each other. I do the same thing with feedback and criticism when experiencing new mods. I'll be frank in saying I don't buy the whole 'not everyone may understand how to use the nexus features' (...Even people that have been here for years and still exhibit the same noxious behaviours?) and even if they don't, it's a small portion of the community that doesn't understand. I'm glad two modders have given their opinion, but at the same time I see so many of the modding section of the community leave over berating comments, the odd way the endorsement vs download system works, and how we as players judge it all and cause drama for them. The thievery of mods and selling them on Second-Life has especially fired up my ire. I feel like lately the mods I've been running through and the comments I've been seeing, while still 'in the rules' have been so underhandedly scathing or outright rude, and from younger players I can understand, but the nexus community isn't just teenagers playing call of duty. We're all artists in our own way, from varying ages, most of us really adults. It's saddening to see that sort of behaviour over such a beloved game.

 

Valkasha, I certainly see your point there, but a lot of modders don't feel that way, and some don't even want donations and just do the work because they love it. As I said above perhaps it's not specifically about clicking the 'endorsement' button, but seeing as how modders are often part of a collaborative endeavor (retextures, using more than one mod to come up with an overhaul, etc), players I think rarely realize how we ourselves are part of that same collaborative endeavor -- if not for us experiencing it and relaying our experience to the modder to see what they can do to improve, mods would stay the same. In a way we as players are part of the collaborative experience in creating a mod. What improvement is it to see a comment in a beautification mod 'This mod sucks I thought I would get something great not chicks running around with stupid anime hairs' (this is the -paraphrased- version of the comment) or snide questions of 'What the heck is wrong with your females, you think this is beauty?' I suppose I just want to address how we as a community can make the exposure and support of the great creativity and innovation this sort of community allows even better, but also show respect for it too. We can't completely rely on Nexus staff to fix the endorsement/download system, and even with youtube and google so many things get left by the wayside or treated in such a way that some modders just lose the opportunity for their work to be showcased to a receptive audience when it is released in the brief time that it's 'in the face' of the community, so to speak. I know it's foolish to think we can ask ALL players of the community to show more respect, creativity, helpful assistance and constructive critique, but at the same time perhaps there can be some effort made on our part to at least try and foster that sort of atmosphere. :)

[notmyhome]

Heh. I'd really like to be able to endorse every mod I download. But since an endorsement is a recommendation to other players, I'll only endorse files I've actually played. Since I also have a real life of sorts, I can't possibly test all of my more than 1000 downloaded files.

[Maigrets]

As the "notmyhome" mentioned above, I've also downloaded 1000's of mods and I do endorse the ones I've actually played and can recommend. However, every time I download a mod now I get a reminder to endorse mods that I haven't endorsed. There are several reasons for that. I either haven't had time to try it in game, I changed my mind and decided not to for whatever reason, or I'm mid game and as we all know Skyrim doesn't like adding, and especially removing mods in an ongoing save.

 

In good faith I cannot endorse a mod without having used it and I personally think the endorsement system is broken. I wouldn't like to guess how many mods are endorsed just because they look good in screenshots and for other reasons, and it can be done a short time after downloading. I have downloaded a lot of mods that look great in screenshots myself, but later for one reason or another don't get around to using them and I cannot endorse in that case.

 

Now I know I could make a save before adding a mod to a character I do not want to lose, but often a mod is something that can't be accessed immediately and takes time to evaluate. I don't have time for that, especially as I said with an ongoing character. Skyrim is unstable enough.

 

I'm a modder myself, albeit with Oblivion and not Skyrim and I couldn't care less about endorsements either as mentioned by Valkasha. If I did I would have stopped a long time ago. I mod for myself first and if others like what I've done that's nice, but I'm not particularly looking for recognition. I also personally don't want donations. I just share what I've made for myself.

 

That's not to say I don't appreciate the mods others have provided free of charge because I do and I endorse the ones I use as soon as I remember and have actually tried them. Many of the mods for Oblivion, Skyrim and other games have amazed me with their creativity and show what can be done with an aging game engine that even the developers can't be bothered to do.

[Valkasha]

I don't know man. I haven't heard of a modder quitting his work just because he didn't get enough endorsements before. You see, the system works just fine, if a mod is liked a lot it will get a lot of endorsements. Take a look at immersive armors, it has over a million unique downloads and only 80,000 endorsements. By your logic, that author feels unappreciated. Well you see, the thing is, he got a ton of downloads and endorsements, more so than nearly any other mod in the game. Why? Because his mod is great. Trust me, if your mod is good enough to get a lot of endorsements, it will get them. You can't expect people to endorse every small mod they download. I have several small mods released, do the endorsements reflect the download count? Absolutely not. Do I care? No. Because why would I care, I didn't get a single bad comment about my mods, so the people that downloaded it either liked it, didn't try it out yet or it simply wasn't to their taste. And even those that liked it won't always endorse, since they are minor mods and while they liked it, they probably liked it as much as a random 9gag post. You're not going to go back to old 9gag posts just to show your appreciation right? If there isn't an in-game like system, it's not likely that endorsements to download ratio will increase, and no one should care. If your mod is good, it will get more endorsements compared to the other mods released around the same time, and overtime, will get similar endorsements compared to similar mods. The bigger the effect a mod has, the more downloads/ endorsements it gets. That's just how it is. It's not a reflection of how much people appreciate your hard work, it's a reflection of how much they cared about your mod and how badly they want to see more of your mods. The system works just fine.

[Hyacathusarullistad]

I think the problem here is that the term "endorsement" has become synonymous with a "Like". It's not the same thing.

[Elianora]

I don't care about endorsements. The reminder system has already boosted the endorsement counts for many underappreciated mods, so it's done a really good job overall on the site, but I couldn't care less about votes for my files. I made them because I had a damn great fun making them.

 

What I do care about is people not being pricks on mod pages and demanding stuff from people who are already providing them top notch content for free.

[notmyhome]

Now that I think of it - the new endorsement system has definitely brought up total endorsements. I have been checking the Undeath mod regularly, and in february it used to have about 1.5k endorsements, but more than 2.5k comments. That changed dramatically when the new system was introduced. Now it's got about twice as many endorsements as comments.