nude images should it stay or should it go now

[Vindekarr]

Exactly, thats why I love a good debates forum.

 

No matter what you cant keep all children out. Even if you could somehow age lock the internet the majority of people I would describe as childish are over 25. Such as puritans and the idiots who yell yay boobies and post some of this gunk. Ive seen some really beautiful stuff on the image share-some people really put the effort into creating works of art and I'll always support that by viewing and endorsing, but even I think enough is enough with the basic boobies filth-shots.

 

Its just like that for mods. About half or more the armor in TESnexus, marvelous site though it is, is either reskinned vannilla armor or a bikini. This is the problem with trying to make competing interests coexist. Hell I know hard being a mod can be, early this year I was working as an inquisitor in champions online-an in guild person who lays down the law and keeps out the rifraf. And it isnt easy, this guild was all warhammer fans, and warhammer has 10 entirely diferent main race/factions, thousands of characters, and everyone had their own favorites and levels of knowledge.

 

Keeping Space Marine fanboys and Ork fanboys off eachothers throats while waving the flag of the imperial deathwatch aint easy-mainly because you cant legalise taste. In a perfect world we could lock the rubbish out of this site and keep only the true art, in a rarified more elite and cultured nexus. No boobiefetishes, no bikini mods, no ridiculous DMGEC to make us "civilised" individuals spill our tea in disgust. But that in itself would be just as bad as either locking out any and all nudity, or having no rules altogether. Because by making this an elitist site we would thus evict almost half the members.

 

I think the rules of this site work about as well as can be. Life isnt perfect and we have to accept that. Puritans have to accept women have sexual needs and arent objects, I need to accept that fools exist and that no amount of telling off or ranting will remove "yay boobies" and Hentaiists need to accept that not everyone likes tits in their face 24/7.

 

"Tolerance is the hardest virtue to achieve and the most self destructive"-Isador Akios

[ginnyfizz]

I don't think anyone is objecting to the banning of torture, rape, paedophilia (as far as I was aware these always were banned). I don't allow either these or depiction of any kind of sexual acts on my site, either, and have wielded the ban hammer myself on transgressors. Insta ban territory as far as I am concerned. I think it is the "No nudity at all" that folk are finding hard to understand. And I have said that I understand and support the decision of the site owner here, precisely because I can see that with a family of sites as huge as this, it is much harder to draw the line between what is and isn't tasteful nudity, and to police the images and their consequences, than it is on a small site like mine.

 

Don't get me started on image hosts.... :mad: despite my premium Photobucket account, they regularly "bucket" fully clothed images of my toons. Especially if they are any race with a demon tail or any toon with red hair...nothing I can do though, never any explanation why a fully clothed toon is too rude, but as they have millions of images being uploaded every hour, I guess they have to shoot first and ask questions later.

[Lisnpuppy]

First let me say, Vagrant a well thought out explanation. There is more than meets the eye to banning an image/uploader, etc.

 

Now on with the heart of my statement. I voted no and here is why. As Vagrant said, different societies have different norms on what is taboo. For sexuality the United States is somewhat prudish in many ways. Now if the pictures show the mass slaughtering of innocents then maybe that could get posted until the cows come home. :tongue:

 

I also wish that people use their imaginations more...that the less mature on the site will one day realize that scantily clad with a demure pose is sometimes far sexier than naked and spread. Maybe they learn it or maybe not, I don't know.

 

But it is an "image share" where we can vote on things we like..not an offical art contest. Frankly some of the pictures I think the least creative are from posters that are well liked and that have been around a while, i think less of it just because it looks all the same to me.

 

All of this is subjective and you can not have a site function as 'image share" and expect the perfection state that we all seem to want. In fact what you may think is beautiful art I would maybe roll my eyes at, hmmm?

 

The question remains, "What is porn" The site has rules about certain things. However if I make a picture where a nude woman is tied against the wall with a smile and someone stands before her, whip in hand....is that a picture of torture or pornography? To some....what if I have placed them "Artfully" the lighting is unusual and the colors contrasting...is it now less torture and now art? Who can say for sure. As to the body type argument...I love the Hgec bodies...and I can tell you I am a 38 year old mother that DOESNT have one. So I feel fairly sure that I have no surprises in store for me. The girl next door body for me would be pear shaped. LOL You may be tired of it but that has no true issue in this debate.

 

It is fairly easy to tell on the TESNexus site anyway, from the thumbnails if it is something you really have no interest in seeing. If there are tentacles of any kind I typically move on *grin*. So just do that...move on. If you think the image share is overwhelmed at times then don't look so often. Make listings of people that you enjoy their pictures and search those out. If something REALLY violates your senses then think of why before you report it. Does it break the rules or is it just "oh look here is my *insert body part here* hanging out and bouncing around" or is it a genuinely disturbing thing. If it breaks the rules then of course report it.

 

I would like to keep the nexus as open as possible. I trust and value the report feature and I have ABSOLUTE trust in the moderators here that they will handle things is the best way to make us as comfortable as possible.

We are however, adults in general and able to self-censor what we view..avoid certain uploaders, etc. I do not wish to have it done for me.

 

Thanks. I hope this debate remains on track and nice. :no:

[ginnyfizz]

Actually I think the arrival on the scene of certain body types is very relevant to the debate. It's not usually the regular HGEC bodies as such that get used for the gratuitous tit shots, though. It's the extreme variants, Bigger Double Melons et al, where the blimps are so big that they are the only things that can fit in the picture that are the problem. I've seen smaller bags on a prize Holstein milker, and I've milked plenty. In those cases, where the boobs are as demanded by the "bigger than a K-Cup please" fanboys, there is NO reason other than the Yay Boobies one for screenshotting them. That's what I call gratuitous. But you can't say you'll have one body mod in and others out, got to ban all nudes just the same. That's the sort of dilemma.

 

I tend not so much to use the word porn so much but to mention the depiction of sexual acts and states of arousal. So things like spread legs, two toons together in a sexual pose, boners and such obviously get kicked into touch. Torture and bondage too, is so debatable that it's best out of the picture. Literally. People can go elsewhere for that.

[Vindekarr]

I agree,

 

I would say that a lot of the west is similarly hipocritical and prudish. From aged 12 I was frequently viewing wartime footage at school, and the vast majority of what was told in history class relate to death, destruction and violence-usualy that my native australia got involved in simply because america or england told them too.

 

I did not however receive any sexual education and got suspended for seeking out my own. And thats not one school, thats pretty much australian culture. Violence is fine, the large majority of local sport such as football is very violent indeed, violence against women, and rape often goes virtualy unpunished, at most a few years in a medium or low security prison. Even murder here gives a pretty short term, normaly not much more than 10-20 years. On the other hand, peadophilia and drug charges often lead to twice that, or even life improsonment. And while that can usualy be attributed to multiple stacked carges or counts, its still stands that a man who murdered three people and crippled another got 11 years. And will soon be free to do it all again despite overwhelming evidence, a completely certain jury and the shear danger of letting a "mad doctor" go free.. In a recent peadophile bust, a man got life for indecent images of a technicaly underage girl that may not even have been his.

 

You see hypocracy, in my mind, isnt something we do on purpose, its something thats slowly crept into our legal system over decades and centuries. When I was 13, i incapacitated a guy who try to mug me: hit him in the balls so hard he almost fainted-I got off unpunished. A girl I knew was expelled for wearing a short skirt and dancer's top to school. No warnings, no telling off, simply expulsion despite the fact she had no other clothes to wear and many other factors that made her entirely innocent.

 

For some reason we have become entirely desensitized to violence and horrified by our own bodies. I for one am anything but a nudist, but I think that some modern sexuality related laws are simply ridiculous and far more offensive than whatever act they forbid. Some american states have laws infact limiting what sexual practices a couple can have-its goes beyond banning same sex couples, which is plenty bad enough, but the ability to jail someone for many years simply for mating with their partner seems far more obcene than the act itself, not to mention unconstitutional and laughably against america's culture of "liberty".

 

I'd expect this sort of stuff in extreme far right puratinical regimes. Perhaps central asian theocracies, but it strikes me as simply ridiculous that in nations who founded themselves on the promise of liberty and freedom we are now even being told what sexual practices we are allowed to perform in our own homes. On pain of a long jail term. This is the twenty-first century, we need to stop acting like its the eleventh. I dont propose nudity in the streets, bestiality, or infact any change in culture, I simply think we need to look at how our laws see the world. Because without us even knowing it, they're getting beyond the point of "protect and serve" and into some rather dangerous territory.

 

I also agree with Ginny that we need to be careful what we portray. This for me, is where censorship is entirely justified.

 

AHGEC, DMGET, GUTS and all sorts of ridiculous other "yay boobies" mods are by no means a problem on their own. But its gratuitous and a little pathetic how so many screenshots in image share are just close ups of impossibly proportioned breasts.

 

Beauty no longer exists in this scenario. For me beauty is a very subjective condition where someone's body matches their personality and soul. Beauty isnt huge breasts or revealing outfits, its all about whats inside and has nothing to do with genitals. The whole point of breasts is to feed newborn infants and boost their hormone levels and immunities. They didnt initialy have any sexual function or role and even in this day and age having very little sexual function.

 

Aside from inexplicable fetishism that seems to have taken over an entire generation. I dont think its the titshots we need to censor, What needs censoring is this ridiculous oversexualisation of girls from an incredibly young age. Its not a healthy combo, a saturation of cartoons and childrens media with enormous breasted flirts who exist simply as onbjects to decorate the scene, combined with absolutely no sexual education. Ive known a lot of kids with issues in my time, myself being one of them, but a good number of the girls I've known had anorexia, body image issues, or both. As if girls arent under enough image related peer pressure as it is, its just unhealthy to expose them to this sort of objectification and sexualisation from often as young as 5.

[Vagrant0]

Sexuality has always been one of those areas where logic and the actual betterment of society has been less important than personal beliefs about how others "should" be, and society being as "I" want it to be. There's just too much "moral" baggage to come up with any sort of universal standards.

 

As for those American laws you mentioned, most of them aren't enforced unless it happens in a public place or with children present. Not suggesting sodomy is necessarily a good thing mind you (has certain health risks for both participants), just that what happens behind closed doors usually stays there. It's only one part of the culture who is pushing the whole "clean sex if any sex at all" stuff, and unfortunately they tend to speak the loudest. The fact that you have some of the more liberal persons doing just bad things... like a nudist summer camp for children (yes, somehow they exist, and are legal, you have permission to feel sick) doesn't help matters at all. One side has moved far too much in recent years, some of it in the wrong direction, while the other is still holding fast to their fantasies about simpler, purer times.

[Fifoo]

Ah, always the famous question of whether this or that is acceptable or not. Especially when we talk about this medium that is art... and when we are ourselves artists.

 

Art has long been questioned without really satisfactorily answered, causing inevitable conflict between the representatives of a civilization called "right-thinking" and artist who wish to leave their "art" speak in any freedom, and that no censorship come the curb. What is it that freedom of expression? Should we leave everything to say or do? This notion of morality varies considerably across cultures and history. In France, the art of nude is generally very well accepted now.

 

Remember the case in point, when some artists went against the current thoughts of their times, causing memorable scandals (eg. the Impressionists in the 19th century). But it is also what has advanced the status of art... Because the primary purpose of any art form it is not to convey a message? Of course, some form of censorship is sometimes necessary to handle overflow, especially if the only goal of the "artist" is trying to "make sensational" or to show things that are irrelevant to the artistic themes or ideas in lieu of its original purpose... to express feelings and emotions in an intelligent and respecful manner, and share them with an audience.

[slygothmog]

to express feelings and emotions in an intelligent and respecful manner, and share them with an audience.

 

That I think says everthing...those that post images that serve only to titillate likewise purile adolescent minds ruin the entire objective of the image forum, and as has been stated before, it is not guaranteed that those viewing are of a suitable age to do so....The rule has been set, and I welcome that rule if it will bring more 'intelligent and respectful' images to the forums.

[Fifoo]

to express feelings and emotions in an intelligent and respecful manner, and share them with an audience.

 

That I think says everthing...those that post images that serve only to titillate likewise purile adolescent minds ruin the entire objective of the image forum, and as has been stated before, it is not guaranteed that those viewing are of a suitable age to do so....The rule has been set, and I welcome that rule if it will bring more 'intelligent and respectful' images to the forums.

Thank you for your comment, Slygothmog, and indeed, you are right to say this because many people tend to deviate from the principles of what makes the beauty of all art as a means of expression: aesthetics and creativity . Under the guise of pretending to be what they are not, real artists, some are confined only to satisfy their selfish needs, what hypocrisy. Fortunately, in Nexus, many others stand out and can claim the coveted title, but they must pay the heavy price of other's deviations, which is unfortunate.

[Surenas]

For me as an image maker that is focused on idle allusions and facial expressions it is crystal clear that the prefab static pose stuff is the clue to understand the actual rejection of trash by the veterans in the image scene as well as by all those lurkers that had already a friend or a few more in real life:

 

It brings you to everythin' but in the mood !

 

Now, stuff that leads to its very antithesis is to be annihilated, immediately, simply not to find oneself in a Catholic monastery, a Protestant prudery club, a militant peace party or somethin' in response to the felt problem on one day or another, if ya understand what I mean.

Remarkably enough, here exclusively the supply determines the demand, for especially young ppl tend to try out everthyin' that is within range in the download section - that's the not to be reproached curiosity of the children, the magnetism of the "forbidden things". And none of us was ever born as an adult... with a philosophic mind.

 

So, why the hell is the mod stuff produced by brains of the other kind responsible for the problem not target of the supporter idea but the resulting images that are caused precisely by this mod stuff ? The mod poo is a sacrosanct taboo, right? Wow! Don't offer the impression of talking with a kind of splitted tongue, folks.

 

At the moment I really feel myself in the somewhat strange situation apparently to support the wrong end of the right matter.

 

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