What do you like in a follower mod?

[pheo3309]

What I mainly look for in a follower are five things. Most of these things are a personal preference since some of this stuff might not be someone's cup of tea, but for the sake of healthy brainstorming I figured I'd toss it out there. It's a bit of a book so bear with me. :)

 

Having personality as well as depth in that personality. I'm biased on the male follower front. I go with them more with females because that's what I'm drawn to. Farkas is a decent example though... While he had short conversations, he has a phobia. A legitimate phobia. This added to the depth of his character. I have a follower package on the back burner myself consisting of more than a few followers who would be added to the marriage faction, however several of the followers would 'compete' with others until the questline to unlock having a certain one as a spouse is unlocked. They'd argue and bicker with each other while others would get along. I'd also have some of them break sneak even when they're arguing. While I could see most not liking that idea, I find it a little more immersive in that sense due to giving them impulsive personality. You could also talk with them after they break that sneak after a while and tell them to stop it and they'd stop it until you made a choice that they didn't like. Annoying? Yes. Annoyingly immersive. However they However that's not everyone's cup of tea. It's simply mine. Also, please note that I wouldn't make them where they'd be annoying chatter boxes all the time either. Just at certain moments. In a tavern/pub for instance, they'd be really chatty. Maybe even drunk. Things like that. ;)

 

The second thing is a reason for being and states of being. Why is a follower a follower? Are they a mercenary for hire? Were they always skilled with a weapon? Why do they dabble in the arcane arts? Are they good or evil? Why are they good/evil? Things like that not only add to the first point, but they also become a pivotal role in the sense of direction for a follower. They fuel internal conflict. They fuel a story. A feeling. A motion. That sense of direction leads the player to have choices, how to act on those choices, and I know it's possible to give followers the ability to seem like they're reacting to the player's choice in what they choose to do. Simple one liner dialogue scenes don't cut it, which is where the vanilla system fails at. What I mean is that there's no full on spark for their reason on being who they are, where they are (in some cases), or even why they feel a certain way they do. I'm not expecting things like Knights of the Old Republic grade characters, but a few pages can be taken out of that book I think.

 

Spouses. Most don't want to do this because they don't like the vanilla system, or things of that nature. One thing I think that could change this is actually adding dialogue, conditions, and quests after the event occurs. For instance, having a clean character (not a vampire or werewolf) and your character marries a werewolf, what would they do if your character was turned into a vampire/Vampire Lord? Could you prove to your follower/spouse that they're safe from you draining all of their blood? Or would they lock you in a cell waiting until you desiccate? Things like that are possible through quests, dialogue, and basic scripts. Another thing about the marriage system is that some don't like the marriage option, but a lot of us to. I'm not saying cater to just one side, but it'd be nice to see it as an option. Having the spouse not limited to a gender as well is a plus. Dialogue checks toward gender though, is another plus. However not everyone will agree with this, so I'm leaving it as something to think about/might be someone's cup of tea who's looking at this thread and wanting to make a follower like this.

 

The fourth thing is I don't like followers that dish a lot more damage than I could if I was playing a melee character. I like having a struggle. It's why I love mods that add locational damage. But since followers don't add this function, the best alternative is that I don't want to see a character with a level (and skill levels) 10 levels above the player's. Or having armor that adds so much stuff to the follower that they can't be downed by a dragon. Especially if they're sent to essential. I personally don't mind if they're set to essential (as I can change it with a follower overhaul), but having both high stats/armor and them being set to essential is a little more than overkill. If I have a follower like Inigo, I make sure that I keep an eye on them, throw a few healing spells at them and keep fighting. If they die, that's why I have Clean Up Your Corpses. I haul them back to a place that I felt was special to them and bury them there. Why? Because it drives the story, feeling, and depth of your own character if you're into that sort of thing. It adds to the atmosphere that Skyrim is a harsh place.

 

As for the last thing, what you said about skimpy characters I agree with. Though I have other reasons. I don't want to see a female follower wearing almost nothing, yet they have armor that takes on the stats of Dragonbone armor. It's incredibly annoying. If they're a warrior, I'd love to see them in an armor with realistic stats according to what the armor looks like. Same goes for males too. Clothy clothes doesn't stop a blade, they're generally flammable, and that's how realism in that regard should be seen. If a female follower follows that suit, has a few other contributing factors of my above points, and I know would match the character I'd be playing I'd definitely download it. I'm more biased toward marrying the males though. :P

 

Anyways, like I said, there's going to be things in here that you or someone else in this thread might disagree with, and that's okay. For the sake of brainstorming though, these are just general things that I look for.

[NightGuardX]

Might just make a follower mod using these results...hmm...*opens creation kit* :tongue:

[nivea]

Male companion similar to Inigo (lots of personality and talking), with a romance option for both genders/gender neutral.

 

I know this is likely to never happen, but you did ask lol.

Edited October 23, 2014 by nivea

[mlee3141]

Wow, pheo. That's some great advice. Now that I've come to think of it, I might make a follower based off of those guidelines sometime in the future, just for fun.

[Boombro]

Male companion similar to Inigo (lots of personality and talking), with a romance option for both genders/gender neutral.

 

I know this is likely to never happen, but you did ask lol.

We do need more males for the ladies, and some men!

There no way any follower will have Inigo word count, the modder voice himself so that why he has a lot of lines.

[pheo3309]

Wow, pheo. That's some great advice. Now that I've come to think of it, I might make a follower based off of those guidelines sometime in the future, just for fun.

 

Anytime! :D I'll definitely keep my eyes open for yours and other mods like these!

[BlackRoseOfThorns]

What nexus really lacks is variety of decent voiced male followers that can actually interact with the player (could name only 2 who fit this cathegory). Even when author supplies his character with quests, between those the companion will be a stiff log of wood that can occasionally swing a sword. Inigo is great as a follower, commenting even on silly things like you walking backwards, having interesting conversations when resting in the inn, but he still lacks few things that I hope a skillful modder could acomplish.

 

 

1. Interactions via animations. I would love to see my companion to sit next to me on the ground out of his own violition and drop some comments or jokes. Wave at me to come closer. Pat my back when I say I'm in tough spot. Pray in the evening. Roast a chicken and give me a piece (and actually eat this himself). Check if I'm alright when I take a knee and the combat is over (kneel beside). Take a watch over the camp during the night (sit in front of fire and walk a bit now and then). And if he's an love interest hold characters hand and maybe more (not a forced animation by dialogue "Hold my hand", just a random event when he asks your character to do so).

 

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/023/9/0/hug_me_by_hskimoo-d4nccyg.jpg

(Now that would actually startle me... Do you also hold your N... "Mother" with those hands?!)

 

 

2. Spouse that won't turn into mindless zombie running towards his house to make a sandwich right after wedding ceremony. Seriously... Most interesting vanilla marriageable characters lose half of their dialogue options or start spitting nonsense. Onmund for example gets hung on Sarthal and he will greet you in your own house with "We shouldn't have been disturbing Saarthal, no matter what you found down there." He repeats this line every few minutes :blink:

 

I feel there should be something in between, like lover status where you keep on adventuring with your companion, but get different set of dialogues and bahaviours. This has great potential for personalized quest outcome on a level of book plot twist. Arguing with character who must adapt to your standing in relationship and consequences of his actions in this situation. Difficult desicisions for him and you meddling in his affairs.

 

Too bad no skyrim male dialogue writers and voice actors take into account that there are also girls playing this game (quite a lot of them actually!). Or maybe they don't find it manly enough to provide side plot focused on male-female relationship? But hey, even George R.R. Martin didn't shy from doing it (I have waited 8 years to see Red Wedding on screen! and a bit longer for the royal one >:3), so why not take similiar aproach?

 

 

 

3. Instead of 1 self centered follower, 2 or 3 designed to be in this together for better or worse. They should argue so the dragonborn can intervene! Cops in Skyrim, anyone?

If you would decide on implementing speaches directed at specific follower like Lydia, it would be either hit or miss, depending on if the player will actually have anything to do with her. Adding more content directed at vanilla npc's will eat a lot of time and will turn out bland. This won't differ much from Mjoll the Lioness. But take just 2 npc's, force them to stay together and make bicker at each other randomly and then some quest plot on top and you're golden. And when dragonborn anwser (maybe even a white lie) can result in one punching the other ones face, priceless!

 

 

 

4. Follower should have his likes, dislikes, fears and then act upon them. In many cases I thought that Barrel Porter (follower without any custom dialogue whatsoever), a non combat khajiit merchant carrying all goods in a barrel, was more consistent then many other companions. He was a coward, running away on first sight of danger, hidding under rocks or cliffs, never fighting back.

 

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/otyahanabi/imgs/1/b/1b5d3402.jpg

 

 

If my comrade tells me he loves argonian wine and he will make me try it one day, why for Mara's sake won't he invite me for a drink in an inn while we're in Riften? If he hates something, why won't he find excuses to go there and beat the **** out of it? Loves drinking ale? Why isn't he partying every night like those drunks in skyrim you can find next to road in the middle of nowhere? Can't resist shiny jewels? Go and steal it! Let the dragonborn handle the consequences!

 

 

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/056/3/d/sweet_night_mother____by_umemaru-d4qx9yj.jpg

(He really does love his Mother >_<)

 

 

5. Quest progress and trust. In most cases this has linear progression. You finish one quest after another and your reputation goes up. That's not how it works in real life. People value different things depending on their personalities and background. An orc will aknowledge you as capable fighter after you decapitate your enemy in a fight. Merchant will see you as smart man after earning 10.000 septims and share his little secret. Follower should stay withing his character, but be a bit unpredictable at times. Some things should easily offend him while those that you find mean, make him laugh. You didn't know this scramblex text on worn out piece of paper was the gratest alchemy formula invented by a man you never heard about? Too bad... Your alchemy skill was too low and now you're gonna be hated (at least for a while).

 

Your companion should also slowly open up to you before confessing his dark past or showing you side you never knew about. After all the mood has to be right for such things.

 

 

 

6. The looks. Should be unique, but not over done to the point it's weird to take your companion into a city. I loved Hoth, but he just stand out too much with that armor you couldn't take off. This was a follower for just one specific playthrough and didn't fit anywhere else.

 

Make him handsome, not too beefy and an believable character.

 

http://static-2.nexusmods.com/15/mods/110/images/59110-3-1413478988.jpg

(Farvis - standalone male Dunmer mage follower by Aisaka)

 

 

7. (And I promise it's the last one. For now :wink: ) Combat and class. No matter how brilliant are the new follower perks, he will get dropped if it does not mesh with players class. Some mages hate mele npc's always being in front. Same goes for sneaky archers. And mele characters itch to hit that one mage always stealing kills and glory. So let the player tinker with companions combat. All of us play with different combat difficulty and mods. What can be underpowered for one is op for other.

 

 

 

Matthiaswagg, I wish best luck with this project. Can't wait to see how the poll will influence it's shape :D It's getting very interesting!

Edited October 24, 2014 by BlackRoseOfThorns

[Mattiewagg]

What nexus really lack is good voiced male followers that can actually interact with the player. Even when author supplies his character with quests, between those the companion will be a stiff log of wood that can occasionally swing a sword. Inigo is great as a follower, commenting even on silly things like you walking backwards, having interesting conversations when resting in the inn, but he still lacks few things that I hope a skillful modder could acomplish.

 

 

1. Interactions via animations. I would love to see my companion to sit next to me on the ground out of his own violition and drop some comments or jokes. Wave at me to come closer. Pat my back when I say I'm in tough spot. Pray in the evening. Roast a chicken and give me a piece (and actually eat this himself). Check if I'm alright when I take a knee and the combat is over (kneel beside). Take a watch over the camp during the night (sit in front of fire and walk a bit now and then). And if he's an love interest hold characters hand and maybe more (not a forced animation by dialogue "Hold my hand", just a random event when he asks your character to do so).

 

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/023/9/0/hug_me_by_hskimoo-d4nccyg.jpg

(Now that would actually startle me... Do you also hold your N... "Mother" with those hands?!)

 

 

2. Spouse that won't turn into mindless zombie running towards his house to make a sandwich right after wedding ceremony. Seriously... Most interesting vanilla marriageable characters lose half of their dialogue options or start spitting nonsense. Onmund for example gets hung on Sarthal and he will greet you in your own house with "We shouldn't have been disturbing Saarthal, no matter what you found down there." He repeats this line every few minutes :blink:

 

I feel there should be something in between, like lover status where you keep on adventuring with your companion, but get different set of dialogues and bahaviours. This has great potential for personalized quest outcome on a level of book plot twist. Arguing with an character that have to adapt to your standing in relationship and consequences of his actions in this situation. Difficult desicisions for him and you meddling in his affairs.

 

Too bad no skyrim male dialogue writers and voice actors take into account that there are also girls playing this game (quite a lot of them actually!). Or maybe they don't find it manly enough to provide side plot focused on male-female relationship? But hey, even George R.R. Martin didn't shy from doing it (I have waited 8 years to see Red Wedding on screen! and a bit longer for the royal one >:3), so why not take similiar aproach?

 

 

 

3. Instead of 1 self centered follower, 2 or 3 designed to be in this together for better or worse. They should argue so the dragonborn can intervene! Cops in Skyrim, anyone?

If you would decide on implementing speaches directed at specific follower like Lydia, it would be either hit or miss, depending on if the player will actually have anything to do with her. Adding more content directed at vanilla npc's will eat a lot of time and will turn out bland. This won't differ much from Mjoll the Lioness. But take just 2 npc's, force them to stay together and make bicker at each other randomly and then some quest plot on top and you're golden. And when dragonborn anwser (maybe even a white lie) can result in one punching the other ones face, priceless!

 

 

 

4. Follower should have his likes, dislikes, fears and then act upon them. In many cases I thought that Barrel Porter (follower without any custom dialogue whatsoever), a non combat khajiit merchant carrying all goods in a barrel, was more consistent then many other companions. He was a coward, running away on first sight of danger, hidding under rocks or cliffs, never fighting back.

 

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/otyahanabi/imgs/1/b/1b5d3402.jpg

 

 

If my comrade tells me he loves argonian wine and he will make me try it one day, why for Mara's sake won't he invite me for a drink in an inn while we're in Riften? If he hates something, why won't he find excuses to go there and beat the **** out of it? Loves drinking ale? Why isn't he partying every night like those drunks in skyrim you can find next to road in the middle of nowhere? Can't resist shiny jewels? Go and steal it! Let the dragonborn handle the consequences!

 

 

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/056/3/d/sweet_night_mother____by_umemaru-d4qx9yj.jpg

(He really does love his Mother >_<)

 

 

5. Quest progress and trust. In most cases this has linear progression. You finish one quest after another and your reputation goes up. That's not how it works in real life. People value different things depending on their personalities and background. An orc will aknowledge you as capable fighter after you decapitate your enemy in a fight. Merchant will see you as smart man after earning 10.000 septims and share his little secret. Follower should stay withing his character, but be a bit unpredictable at times. Some things should easily offend him while those that you find mean, make him laugh. You didn't know this scramblex text on worn out piece of paper was the gratest alchemy formula invented by a man you never heard about? Too bad... Your alchemy skill was too low and now you're gonna be hated (at least for a while).

 

Your companion should also slowly open up to you before confessing his dark past or showing you side you never knew about. After all the mood has to be right for such things.

 

 

 

6. The looks. Should be unique, but not over done to the point it's weird to take your companion into a city. I loved Hoth, but he just stand out too much with that armor you couldn't take off. This was a follower for just one specific playthrough and didn't fit anywhere else.

 

Make him handsome, not too beefy and an believable character.

 

http://static-2.nexusmods.com/15/mods/110/images/59110-3-1413478988.jpg

(Farvis - standalone male Dunmer mage follower by Aisaka)

 

 

7. (And I promise it's the last one. For now :wink: ) Combat and class. No matter how brilliant are the new follower perks, he will get dropped if it does not mesh with players class. Some mages hate mele npc's always being in front. Same goes for sneaky archers. And mele characters itch to hit that one mage always stealing kills and glory. So let the player tinker with companions combat. All of us play with different combat difficulty and mods. What can be underpowered for one is op for other.

 

 

 

Matthiaswagg, I wish best luck with this project. Can't wait to see how the poll will influence it's shape :D It's getting very interesting!

Thanks for all the great feedback! You guys are just making me more excited about this project. I'm sort of itching to start it sooner than expected. Perhaps in my free time between Immersive Quests quests?

[BlackRoseOfThorns]

 

Thanks for all the great feedback! You guys are just making me more excited about this project. I'm sort of itching to start it sooner than expected. Perhaps in my free time between Immersive Quests quests?

 

 

Make him/them a part of or an addon/dlc to your immersive quests and work at the same time :D You will provide content for both.

 

PS: I know what you mean. This has such potential, it's hard not to get excited!

Edited October 24, 2014 by BlackRoseOfThorns

[Mattiewagg]

 

 

Thanks for all the great feedback! You guys are just making me more excited about this project. I'm sort of itching to start it sooner than expected. Perhaps in my free time between Immersive Quests quests?

 

 

Make him/them a part of or an addon/dlc to your immersive quests and work at the same time :D You will provide content for both.

 

PS: I know what you mean. This has such potential, it's hard not to get excited!

Actually, Vulon mentioned the idea of having a follower that is part of Immersive Quests with quest aware dialogue and all the usual good stuff. Which is certainly a good idea. However, I'm not entirely sure if I want my follower to be part of Immersive Quests. What I could do is create a pretty good one for IQ and then with those follower creation skills create an even better one later on. Or create a follower with an add on for IQ. So many possibilities!