Creating a simple MCM menu?

[MoistTypewriter]

Thanks to this thread, I came across this link, which may also help bridge the gap between the original MCM tutorial and Cdcooley's example:

https://github.com/schlangster/skyui/wiki/MCM-State-Options

[rms827]

I've been referring to this for almost a week now and slowly piecing together a MCM Menu. I figured it deserved a bump because CDCooley did a great job explaining his MCM Menu, and because I wanted to comment on the original posters comments.

 

In short, I agree with the OP. The CK wiki is fine IF you already have a decent understanding of papyrus, AND you're just lucky with searching too. For somebody completely new to scripting though, it's a disorganized, poorly explained nightmare. That's all the more a shame because as I'm SLOWLY getting more familiar with papyrus, I realize it's even more simple than old school BASIC. The trouble with the CK wiki is that it doesn't break down examples enough. You get "this is "term X" and this is an example of how it's used. If the CK wiki was set up like an intro to programming class, the terms (commands, functions, etc...) would be explained a LITTLE better and the examples would be much more clearly broken down. Most of the examples use other papyrus scripting terms that aren't explained, linked to, etc... This just makes it more confusing for a rank beginner with no scripting experience at all. Hell, I learned to program in BASIC decades ago and despite some similarities *I* have had a hard time following papyrus.

 

The Nine help you if you need to look up something too. It took me over two weeks of searching just to find out the command to flip the Essential flag for an NPC is SetEssential()

 

Bottom line, somebody REALLY needs to go in and do a massive overhaul of the CK wiki and make it more user friendly

[lofgren]

Well it IS a wiki. Have at it!

[lofgren]

Snark aside, I find the wiki extremely useful. I pretty much always have it open in one browser tab if I am working on a mod. I did not find that I needed to understand Papyrus for it to be helpful. I'm curious to know what you mean by "disorganized, poorly explained nightmare," because I quite like the organization. Your rant is quite vague to the point that I really don't know what you are talking about. For a simple example, I want to know what a property is, I go to the page about properties:

 

http://www.creationkit.com/Property_Reference

 

And now I know about properties.

 

I've seen a lot of whinging about the wiki on these boards, but very few changes to it. I'm not about to go making drastic changes, because I'm not the one who finds it poorly organized.

 

Something to keep in mind is that the wiki is a reference text, not an intro to programming class. Just as it doesn't make sense to complain about an anatomy diagram failing to teach you basic biology in a step-by-step process (that's what biology classes are for), it doesn't make much sense to complain about the wiki failing to teach you scripting. That's not its purpose. The good news is that if you really want to, you can write a step-by-step guide to scripting and put it on the wiki. But it will never be more than just one small part of what the wiki is for.

 

 

It took me over two weeks of searching just to find out the command to flip the Essential flag for an NPC is SetEssential()

 

You have nobody to blame for this but yourself. Where is essentialness set for an NPC? In the ActorBase. Where is the first place you should look for a function related to essentialness? The ActorBase page. Enough people have complained about the wiki that I believe it does not work for some people for whatever reason, but this right here appears to be a declaration of your own ineptitude. It should not have taken you two weeks to find this. Hell, it should not have taken you two weeks to go to your scripts/source folder and open the ActorBase.psc file and see that SetEssential() is right there staring you in the face.

 

Unless you are saying that it took you two weeks to go from not knowing anything about Papyrus to being able to create a script that would set an actor as essential when required to, in which case I would say that is a pretty good rate to go from 0. Did you think you would be able to master a scripting language in a day?

Edited May 10, 2015 by lofgren

[myztikrice]

Is there some reason you're operating under the assumption people should innately know the 'essentialness set for an NPC [is] in the ActorBase'?

[Arocide]

I agree the CK Wiki is not user Friendly but no one has ever suggested an alternative or don't wish to go through with an alternative due to a lack of support from other contributors (Of which there is only a few active ones.)

 

I've contributed under two aliases 'Bot Owned' back in 2013 and 'Arocide' over the past few months and I've only ever seen one major change to the papyrus section of the Wiki which was reversed a few months later by the same user (It introduced tables into the script object pages). There is a concept template for a new tabled solution to script objects that a contributor was working on but so far only two of us have cared to comment.

 

Anyway while I think there are changes that should happen on the Wiki many aren't of the same opinion or care and a wiki is about collaboration if people don't wish to collaborate then there isn't much you 'should' change and trying to drum up support for a change when it appears people don't really care or are in a 'it anit broke don't fix it' mindset is a pain. So I doubt much will change it hasn't for at least 2 years so I don't see it doing it now.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Arocide

[sLoPpYdOtBiGhOlE]

CK wiki is fine to me, may lack some up to date function descriptions/examples/returns, but it definitely is a bible when using papyrus, to me anyways.
Simple navigation, no flashy adds and straight forward layout.

The learning curve of some people is more the issue imho.
If they aren't spoon fed answers instantaneously they get all "No one took the time to make it so I can understand, it sux because I don't understand".

Must admit I have felt that way myself at times, but as time goes on you soon enough get the feel of it and in most instances (not all) the info it provides makes it all come together to complete what your after.

 

The MCM API wiki I find the same also.

Just the basics without the fluff is all I ever want when learning another api.

[Mattiewagg]

CK Wiki has always been easy to use, contains loads of useful information, and relatively easy to navigate. The search function could be better, but those are my only qualms with it. The rest of it is up to us - updating it and such. However, there is an insane amount of information and it's not hard to find, really.

[lofgren]

Is there some reason you're operating under the assumption people should innately know the 'essentialness set for an NPC [is] in the ActorBase'?

 

Yes.

 

There are two ways that somebody might have learned this:

 

1. Open up the CK and look at the actor form.

 

2. Look at the actor page on the wiki.

 

If you are trying to learn how to script an MCM that changes the essentialness of actors and you spend two weeks without doing either of these things, the wiki is unlikely to ever be able to help you.

 

There are four places that I would look for such a command, in this order:

1. Actor

2. ActorBase

3. ObjectReference

4. Form

 

IF you have a basic grasp of Papyrus there is absolutely no excuse for taking two weeks to look in those places.

 

If you do NOT have a basic grasp of Papyrus, taking two weeks to get yourself up and running to the point that you are able to reliably find specific functions related to a specific task is perfectly reasonable.

 

People seem to think that they ought to be able to peruse the wiki for an afternoon and then go out and write Papyrus scripts that will rewrite the game. If you think you can do a better job with the wiki have at it. There is a reason it is open to everybody.

 

In the interest of being helpful I will leave you with this, which should be your starting point for almost any question about specific Papyrus functions:

 

http://www.creationkit.com/Category:Script_Objects

 

Papyrus does have some oddities that I haven't found noted on the wiki, like the fact that potions can be cast as both object references and as spells and thus trigger both OnObjectEquipped and OnSpellCast events. I'm not saying that the wiki is complete or that anybody who doesn't have Papyrus figured out is a dumdum. I'm just saying that it shouldn't take this long to locate a specific function, assuming you already know exactly where to look. And if you don't know exactly where to look then what you really learned in those two weeks was a whole lot more than just one specific function, because next time you need a specific function you should be able to find it in minutes rather than weeks.

Edited May 10, 2015 by lofgren

[skinnytecboy]

This whole MCM thing is actually starting to melt my brain! I'm only just getting comfortable with scripts... and now I try my hand at this and "ArrggHH!".

 

Firstly, am I missing something really simple here? Am I supposed to load something from SKI in to Ck because nothing compiles. Is that normal. And I don't quite grasp the ModName property referred to in the quickstart guide.

 

If anyone wants to help. I'm looking to make a simple MCM menu that can deactivate Mharphin's idle dialogue quest and perhaps alter his actorbase aggression level

 

 

EDIT: Doh! Just noticed this: https://github.com/schlangster/skyui/wiki

 

Still if anyone wants to help.. it would be a lot quicker

Edited May 10, 2015 by skinnytecboy