edgeburner Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Where do you draw the line?In light of the recent news that USA congressional democrats plan to release evidence of CIA 'torture ' techniques used on suspected terrorist to pull information from them, I am left (no pun intended) to wonder why?...KIDDING! It is obviously political,Is water boarding/sleep deprivation, ect akin to fingernail pulling/cutting, ect? I understand that we must not regress into absolute midevil-esque torture methods to extract information from enemies, but, you cannot give 'em milk and cookies and expect them to talk either. After all, they are prisoners of war. not to mention that they are extremely dedicated to their cause. Remember also that we subject our own spec-op warriors to the same 'torture' methods....Is that torture or training?Will taking the moral high-road /holier-than-thou atty hurt us in the end?Will we endanger the lives of our military/intelligence folks?How will such a report affect our allies?And again, what is the possible benefit of releasing such a report outside of the obvious political nonsense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbbs Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 If the Spec Ops guys choose to do it, that's their choice. If a random guy is kidnapped from the street without any evidence of wrongdoing other than being the wrong colour, in a country invaded by a foreign power, and is subjected to it, it's torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 "enhanced interrogation" is just the politically correct term for torture. Doesn't matter how you slice it, or who is doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgeburner Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) If a random guy is kidnapped from the street without any evidence of wrongdoing other than being the wrong colour, in a country invaded by a foreign power, and is subjected to it, it's torture. A bit of a "random" statement, don't you think? "enhanced interrogation" is just the politically correct term for torture. Doesn't matter how you slice it, or who is doing it. But, it does matter how, and, who is being 'tortured'. If the SOB is responsible for killing thousand of innocent people, and, you have evidence proving his involvement, Go right ahead.....I won't shed any tears.....I gaurantee you that. :) Edited December 8, 2014 by edgeburner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 If a random guy is kidnapped from the street without any evidence of wrongdoing other than being the wrong colour, in a country invaded by a foreign power, and is subjected to it, it's torture. A bit of a "random" statement, don't you think? "enhanced interrogation" is just the politically correct term for torture. Doesn't matter how you slice it, or who is doing it. But, it does matter how, and, who is being 'tortured'. If the SOB is responsible for killing thousand of innocent people, and, you have evidence proving his involvement, Go right ahead.....I won't shed any tears.....I gaurantee you that. :smile: If we already have evidence, what is the point of torturing him? (aside from stuffing him in prison, or simply whacking him dead?) No, it does matter. We are supposed to be "better" than all that. If we resort to torture, that puts us on the same level as those we are fighting against, and declaring "evil" BECAUSE they torture people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixbbs Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 There's a far higher chance that the person being "interrogated" is completely innocent than otherwise. You need to look to your president to find the person responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 There's a far higher chance that the person being "interrogated" is completely innocent than otherwise. You need to look to your president to find the person responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of people.Which president, and how so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgeburner Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) No, it does matter. We are supposed to be "better" than all that. If we resort to torture, that puts us on the same level as those we are fighting against, and declaring "evil" BECAUSE they torture people. I agree ...to a certain extent. Who has ordained us with unfettered access to the high-road? To be the only ones blessed with the title of holier- than-thou? We are not the conscience of the world, not the ones who possess absolute judgement rights. Are we really that full of ourselves? Or, is that an honest human concern, because if it is an honest concern, we are going to get chewed up and spit out eventually....by the very ones who's 'rights' we are concerned with. This is war....whether people acknowledge that fact or not. It's not like we were/are pulling fingernails and executing the death of a thousand cuts in our interrogation techniques. Christ! the turds in Gitmo have all the comforts of home! Allow me a moment of stereotypical judgment.....Probably more comforts that their actual home!! Edited December 9, 2014 by edgeburner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvnchrist Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I would be careful about the use of reason with those who work primarily off a belief system. The idea of being better than others has lead to many failures and probbly an extenction or two. Look at who brought down the Roman empire in the West. Were they more civilized or just more numerious? Look at Isis over in Iraq now. Are they more civilized than those they are driving out of their homes and into the mountains. Societies have always had their dark areas that have operated beneith the prying eyes of polite society. We may like to consider ourselves above certain actions, but is that because we actually are or just that the right situation has not presented itself? We are all animals inside and no matter how we dress we all react to a survival situation the same way. As deadly as posible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Then if we are going to do it, lets simply admit it, call it what it is, and be done with it. The world will judge us by our actions. If those actions don't produce results, well, then were they really 'justified'? If we do the same things we condemn our enemies for, is that not just a bit hypocritical? Besides, it has already been proven that torture is ineffective as a means of intelligence gathering. Inflict enough pain on anyone, and they will happily tell you what you want to hear, whether it is true or not. Not to mention that coerced testimony is inadmissible in any court of law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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