TES5Edit How to know which mod to clean and not to?

[PlagueWarden]

Hello I've recently learn how to use TES5Edit and its really simple. When using BOSS, it told me to clean some mod but I heard tht could be problematic if I do it. So I need to know how can I know if I have to clean a mod, ''recomended by BOSS'' and which manipulation I should do or not to. And also I cleaned Heartfire, Dawnguard and Update.esm but BOSS ask me to clean Dragonborn. Will it be the same as the other I did?

 

I watched the tutorial of Gopher on how to use TES5Edit, and he cleand Heartfire, Dawnguard and Update.esm but not dawnguard. I don't know if its because he did not own the DLC or something else. That why I prefere asking.

[DoctorKaizeld]

dont use BOSS use LOOT: https://loot.github.io/

 

it will tell you what mods needs to be cleaned as well.

[lofgren]

Usually there is no need to clean mods created by the community because we do it for you. Honestly I have never cleaned anything (besides my own stuff) since Morrowind and I have never had any trouble.

[heromaster]

This is completely wrong. There are only a few mods (Guardian Dialogue Overhaul for example) which should not be cleaned even if they have ITM's (Identical to Master) and deleted references.

 

LOOT will usually tell you which mods should and should not be cleaned. There is a message under each mod like "this mod has xx ITM's and should be cleaned" or "this mod has xx ITM's and shouldn't be cleaned".

 

There are two things you have to keep in mind: ITM's may or may not reset entries which were altered by other mods (This depends on the load order). Deleted references will lead to CTD'S if a mod tries to access this deleted reference. TES5Edit changes this and undeletes the entries and disables them. It has the same effect (The reference is not visible anymore) but it avoids CTD's because other mods still can access the reference and therefore Skyrim will not CTD.

Edited January 16, 2015 by heromaster

[lofgren]

If you clean some of my mods you will break them.

 

For example every mod that alters vanilla magic effects should probably have an identical-to-master version of the spell that uses that magic effect, because some information from the magic effect is stored in the spell and that data is loaded in mod load order. In other words even if you change a magic effect the changes may not appear in-game otherwise.

 

The Loot team cannot possibly keep up with the number of mods being produced and add appropriate notes to the master list. The fact is the type of errors that cleaning prevents are rare, and most modders know what they are doing and avoid those errors to begin with. Cleaning was a huge deal with Morrowind because the editor itself would introduce serious errors. It's just not that big a deal with Skyrim or Oblivion. It certainly should not be your first suspect if you are getting CTDs.

 

If you know what you are doing, cleaning is unlikely to break your game. If you don't know what you are doing then you're probably safe just leaving everything alone.

[heromaster]

Except in rare cases mods should never rely on such dirty edits. Altered magic effects might not appear ingame because if the magic effect is in use on actors it will not be changed. Not because the information is split in the spell and magic effect but because the magic effect is loaded from the savegame.

 

And I disagree, alot of modders don't know about it or forget to clean their plugins. Heck, even Beteshda forgot that when they released their DLC's.

[lofgren]

Except in rare cases mods should never rely on such dirty edits. Altered magic effects might not appear ingame because if the magic effect is in use on actors it will not be changed. Not because the information is split in the spell and magic effect but because the magic effect is loaded from the savegame.

 

You're wrong on that count my friend. You can do the research yourself. Modders have spent days banging their heads against the wall trying to figure out why their changes weren't having any effect, and there are forum posts to prove it.

 

Bethesda didn't forget to clean their plug ins. They just didn't care. I never cleaned my DLCs and it's never been an issue. I think out of the hundreds of mods that I have downloaded and run LOOT on, only one actually needed to be cleaned. LOOT was either mistaken on the others or it was irrelevant.

 

Seriously, it's not that big a deal.

 

Wild edits are a far bigger issue any day, and cleaning will not fix those.

[heromaster]

I've done my research.

 

But hey, try it out yourself. Create a plugin which deletes the counterbar in an Inn. Now create another plugin which tries to access exactly this reference. What happens? CTD.

 

And another one: Create a plugin (Mod A) which alters the package of Alvor to alter his sleeping times. Now create another plugin (Mod B) which makes an ITM on this package. Place Mod B after Mod A in your load order. Now what will happen? The altered sleeping package from Mod A will not change because Mod B reverted it.

 

What you did is breaking Mod A because it relied on the altered package.

Edited January 16, 2015 by heromaster

[lofgren]

Mod A and Mod B are incompatible and cleaning them will not fix that.

 

In any event I was referring to your point about spells. On that count you're just wrong.

 

Deleted references can be a problem but again if you're getting CTDs there are a dozen possible causes that are more likely than dirty edits.

 

And again I say in most cases modders know what they are doing. The people creating mods also tend to be the most adept at installing and troubleshooting them, for obvious reasons.

[EnaiSiaion]

Mod A is an overhaul that buffs fire breath by reducing its cooldown. Mod B buffs fire breath by increasing its damage. Now fire breath is overpowered.