kimmera Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Ehh seems to me like the DB is having a ton of bad luck along the whole questline.. Down to like 8 members, their hideout gets discovered, the coffins cart wheel broke etc. To clarify, I meant Dragonborn, not Dark Brotherhood. The Dark Brotherhood have nothing whatsoever to do with the skeleton key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVampireDante Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Be a damn useful tool for an assassin to have though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmera Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Be a damn useful tool for an assassin to have though... Well *the* D(ragon)B(orn) can be a member of the D(ark) B(rotherhood). :) But that pesky oath to Nocturnal obligates returning the key.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmera Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Been thinking about this a bit further. The Thieves' Guild storyline comes down to 'Karliah is an incompetent thief who is convinced that no one can be a successful thief unless backed by Nocturnal based super-powers.' And not just a successful thief but that there is no way to eliminate a rogue thief without the direct support of Nocturnal. The fact you are a Dragonborn? Who cares? That you are the Listener of the Dark Brotherhood? What do they know about killing people? Although technically, Nocturnal never gets you to swear directly. She just takes Karliah's word for your loyalty while you stand there. Given that, is there even an actual binding oath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teria23 Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) The entire railroaded intro chapter. - Notice two carts. Count four Stormcloaks on one of them, Dragonborn, Lokir, Ralof and Ulfric on the other.- First Stormcloak utters the single one heroic line in the entire game and gets brutally murdered.- Second Stormcloak lies terribly wounded in the tower.- Third Stormcloak gets blasted by Alduin when you run up the stairs.- Fourth Stormcloak is dead so you can take his uniform.- Then start counting how many escaped Stormcloaks you encounter on your way through Helgen and the Keep. On escaping Helgen:- "We should split up." / "I think it's best if we split up."- *waits for you indefinitely* Dragonborn and Ralof/Hadvar marching into Riverwood.- "Everything's quiet here, no-one knows anyth---"- "DRAGON! I SAW A DRAGON! IT WAS AS BIG AS A MOUNTAIN AND BLACK AS THE NIGHT!"- "Did I see you talking to Sven?" - "Dragon? Are you drunk?"- "You must have seen it, it flew right over the barrow."- "You're right, I saw it." Seriously, WHAT? Then the Companions.- "We're noble and heroic and honourable!"- "Awesome, can I join you?"- "Sure! Your first task is to brutally beat up a little weak old lady to show her how TOUGH we are. And honourable."- "Uhm... " And don't get me started on Adrianne Avenicci boasting about counseling her father. I've yet to see a worse counselor. NOTHING he says shows the least bit of brains, neither from him OR his daughter. Most of the dialogues seem to have been written once, then sent to the voice actors to be spoken, and then a random half of them got thrown away and the rest ist garbled garbage. Edited April 26, 2015 by Teria23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmera Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 The entire railroaded intro chapter. - Notice two carts. Count four Stormcloaks on one of them, Dragonborn, Lokir, Ralof and Ulfric on the other.- First Stormcloak utters the single one heroic line in the entire game and gets brutally murdered.- Second Stormcloak lies terribly wounded in the tower.- Third Stormcloak gets blasted by Alduin when you run up the stairs.- Fourth Stormcloak is dead so you can take his uniform.- Then start counting how many escaped Stormcloaks you encounter on your way through Helgen and the Keep. On escaping Helgen:- "We should split up." / "I think it's best if we split up."- *waits for you indefinitely* Dragonborn and Ralof/Hadvar marching into Riverwood.- "Everything's quiet here, no-one knows anyth---"- "DRAGON! I SAW A DRAGON! IT WAS AS BIG AS A MOUNTAIN AND BLACK AS THE NIGHT!"- "Did I see you talking to Sven?" - "Dragon? Are you drunk?"- "You must have seen it, it flew right over the barrow."- "You're right, I saw it." Seriously, WHAT? Then the Companions.- "We're noble and heroic and honourable!"- "Awesome, can I join you?"- "Sure! Your first task is to brutally beat up a little weak old lady to show her how TOUGH we are. And honourable."- "Uhm... " And don't get me started on Adrianne Avenicci boasting about counseling her father. I've yet to see a worse counselor. NOTHING he says shows the least bit of brains, neither from him OR his daughter. Most of the dialogues seem to have been written once, then sent to the voice actors to be spoken, and then a random half of them got thrown away and the rest ist garbled garbage. Be a bit fair on some of those. Yours are not likely the first carts to come through. Some of the other Stormcloaks could have been held in keep. It does have prison facilities. Most will not have seen the dragon. Even many of those who did might have wondered if they were seeing things. Dragons had not been around for many many generations. It is a wonder people can identify them as dragons at all. As for the Companions, which little old lady? Are you sure you aren't confusing that with a different quest line? As for Adrianne, being a poor counselor does not equate to bad writing. Now if someone else who should know better said she was a good counselor it might be bad writing, but people thinking that they are smarter than they really are is realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teria23 Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 You're making ingame excuses for out-of-game flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmera Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 You're making ingame excuses for out-of-game flaws. You are ignoring my explanations without even responding to them. Why does Adrianne have to be smart or a good counselor to counsel her father? What about that situation equates to bad writing rather than some expectation on your part that NPC's always speak meaningful statements? And you didn't respond to my question to you regarding the companions. They have you run some internal introduction errands (bring this shield to our smith, then deliver something finished from the smith to its owner). I don't remember any little old lady slaughtering. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the Dark Brotherhood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teria23 Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) I haven't played the Companions in ages because I dislike the entire werewolf storyline. So I don't remember who it was that they sent me to give a sound beating. I do remember that the job was a disgrace for any group that calls itself honourable. And no, it wasn't the DB. As for Adrianne, she's a moron. So is her father. And the way this is portrayed is clumsy and dumb. My opinion. Feel free to view the writing as subtle and ironic; I don't. Edited April 26, 2015 by Teria23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmera Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 I haven't played the Companions in ages because I dislike the entire werewolf storyline. So I don't remember who it was that they sent me to give a sound beating. I do remember that the job was a disgrace for any group that calls itself honourable. And no, it wasn't the DB. As for Adrianne, she's a moron. So is her father. And the way this is portrayed is clumsy and dumb. My opinion. Feel free to view the writing as subtle and ironic; I don't. You do realize that there are limits to how intelligent npcs can be in a scripted environment, right? She and her father are minor characters at best. What level of AI or scripting do you expect them to have? And if you haven't played a storyline in ages, why are you assuming that you are remembering correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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