Retail threatens Steam ban

[CommanderCrazy]

"Yep. I even knew someone who got their rocks off by uploading fake things to torrent site. He'd get together a gig or so of the most disgusting porn he could find on the web, stick it into one or two .cab archives, create some dummy files, toss in a DX redistributable to make it look authentic, and then make an EXE which would look like the normal installer but would propagate the persons harddrive with porn scattered around to random folders. After the exe completed "installing" it would close saying that the installation process was interrupted, so people would often re-install the "game" several times. Pissed off a good many people with that one."

 

Heh. I would have done that on my old school prof's laptop. I hated him so much. :teehee:

[Jagermh]

"Yep. I even knew someone who got their rocks off by uploading fake things to torrent site. He'd get together a gig or so of the most disgusting porn he could find on the web, stick it into one or two .cab archives, create some dummy files, toss in a DX redistributable to make it look authentic, and then make an EXE which would look like the normal installer but would propagate the persons harddrive with porn scattered around to random folders. After the exe completed "installing" it would close saying that the installation process was interrupted, so people would often re-install the "game" several times. Pissed off a good many people with that one."

 

Heh. I would have done that on my old school prof's laptop. I hated him so much. :teehee:

 

A few years back a friend of mine made a shortcut to an extractor which extracted multiple gigabytes of text files all over the desktop of the a computer and put it in his school storage for the IT guys to find under the name of "Games folder"

It worked

[CommanderCrazy]

Yeah, I did something similar in C++, where you clicked on a legit looking exe and it opened my computer about 1,000,000 times. (No joke. The computers at my old school had virtually no RAM and crappy processors, so they died when you ran it :turned: )

[Vagrant0]

That's quite creative, you can imagine the panic that would have caused on a shared machine.

Yes... Hence that part about pissing off LOTS of people. However the point is that while this was actually "kinda" harmless, there are those who are doing the same sorts of things with actual intent to screw you and everyone you associate with over by uploading sabotaged releases, and they've become quite skilled at leaving few signs of their actions. Afterall, who's likely going to report being hacked and their identity stolen to the authorities when it resulted from pirating something?

[Chaosblade02]

 

I would guess from this statement that you know next to nothing about how piracy tends to work in relation to DRM games, and are totally oblivious to how the piracy community operates. Generally this is a good thing, but here it just opens your argument with an ill-informed point. The groups behind piracy don't release games for the sake of the teeming, stupid masses; they release games primarily for bragging rights and to show the publishers that the DRMs which are in place can be circumvented. As such, these groups don't care about "features" so long as the game runs for them... And to hell with anyone else. This sentiment is repeated in many of the boards that piracy groups operate through by flaming, insulting, or sabotaging anyone who has trouble running their releases. Once a working release has been distributed to give proof to other groups that the game was cracked, some groups stop that release in favor of "updated" versions which are missing necessary files, contain malware, or come with other surprises to screw with leechers who are just looking for a free game. There is no support for when these games are bad other than "find another one to download or figure it out NOOB!". Added into the fact that many newer games cannot be fully hacked without severe complications, and what you save in buying the game outright you lose in spending hours searching for a working version.

 

On average, out of 10 users who get banned from this site, 9 of them only mention their pirated game because they are having game issues related to their pirated version. 1 out of the 10 are often using a pirated version which is for a different localization or are missing required components and are looking for a replacement. If piracy was such a "good" option, there wouldn't be quite so many people around who have problems caused directly by piracy. In relation to newer games, pirated versions often don't even manage to make the game work completely or reliably because of how integrated certain copy protections are.

 

If you are referring to getting pirated games working, it only requires basic knowledge and the ability to follow instructions. A friend of mine pirates games, hes got a 500GB USB drive full of pirated games, I asked him how he plays online, he told me he uses some other service, basically a steam emulator, but not really using steam software, its more of a term for it. The veteran pirates basically laugh at steam. And in many cases, you can get pirated games working without even having to install the game, you just copy the files over and click the exe file. Or even play them from a jump drive, plug and play, just like old school, but on some newer games.

 

 

Funny. Since registering for Steam I havn't gotten one bit of spam mail from Steam, have not seen any particularly intrusive advertisements. Compared to many sites/games which force redirects through advertisements every time the site is loaded or the game is launched/closed, you have no reason to complain about something which pops up in an obvious window only when you launch steam on its own. If 3rd party advertising bothered you THAT much, you wouldn't be on the internet period.

 

The difference is that I paid money for a game, not just randomly searching on the web and come across advertisements, so your comparison isn't very good.

 

 

Furthermore, I think you're forgetting the bit about how many games are released on a primarily digital basis just because the developer is independent or isn't setup to produce millions of physical copies. In both cases, there is only the 1st party involved, and the digital version often comes much cheaper than a physical version. Most MMOs have adopted this platform just because digital versions were easier to distribute. Sure, you can go to the store to pay $60 for what you can legally download for free from the game's website... But you get a nifty CD that has out-dated game information on it and an instruction book that you'll never use. Yes, this is somewhat personal preference, and I too prefer a physical copy when the option is practical, but you seem to forget that for many people in many places, physical copies of games are not practical. This is EXACTLY why these types of distribution platforms have been as successful as they have been, even with their numerous problems. In 10 years, physical media probably won't even be an option for anything other than basic system software, and this includes beloved consoles.

 

I still prefer physical media, because you get a box with a disk copy, and an instruction manual, I feel better about buying something that I can put my hands on and look at, and what if the site I purchased the game from goes down? I still got my physical copy, provided I take care of it, but that is my responsibility. And if I have a physical copy of a game, it means I can resell it when I am done with it, you can't do this with a digital copy. And gamers have always been able to do this until now, PC games had some resell value, now they have zero because once you register it on steam, it is tied to you, and your physical copy has now expired.

 

Maybe you're too young to remember, but once upon a time you could put a CD rom or floppy into a computer, not have to install anything, and run the software without any issues. Now a days, you need to store most data related to a program locally, and have this obtrusive thing constantly running in the background eating up your resources. Even then, people had a choice... Either use windows in order to run windows based programming (80% of what was being created) or go be quiet and find something else. If you don't want to deal with what is a required component for a game, just don't play that game, don't buy that game, and don't even talk about that game... Very simple. Although windows and saving files locally was forced onto people, alternatives did exist and became popular in their own right.

 

I started gaming in the late 80s. The fact is, it is possible to run these games without Steam, they could have been made it that way, without you having to jump through all these hoops for nothing, I got no problem putting in a CD key and being logged in online once to register, to play a game, but requiring I install another service, Steam, to have it running in the background taking up extra memory, on a game that doesn't even have a multiplayer, its just ridiculous.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Chaosblade02

[ThomasKra]

"Steam is no more restrictive in DRM than hard-copies requiring the 25 digit code before installation. Best of all, it allows you, the user, to RETAIN control of the software."

 

No. There is no better control of your software than actually putting a disk in the drive, installing it and then playing it.

Steam does not give you control of your files.

 

Except as per my example, there are hard-copy games surfacing out there that not only remove control of the files, but the game itself, from the user. You are only permitted to play it, and the only property rights you retain are the disk, manual, and box, so far as not even allowing the user to keep his saves on his own drive. Think of Ubisoft's new DRM system as only permitting an extended rental of the game, and that's basically what you paid $60.00 for right there. If this takes off, then I will truly start fearing for the future of PC gaming.

 

OK, now per my quote I don't think that was the best phrasing I dreamed up (I'm not great at phrasing my thoughts into words). They don't care what you do with the software unless you try to use it elsewhere, that's when Steam gets all huffy and puffy and starts complaining. You can only install where Steam wants the game to go, and any attempt to undo that makes Steam mad. You can still use the game on multiple systems (if its a digital copy), but since you have to download the entire game over again to do so, that definitely puts a damper on that "feature."

 

And, no, I'm not a Steam fanatic, it's bugged me a fair few times, too, (Occasionally the offline mode wouldn't work and things like that) what I'm trying to communicate is I do my best to tolerate it, because I know there are far worse systems out there (again, evil-eyes at Ubisoft).

[Valasthor]

Ubisofts DRM is a bad example for the gaming industry...

 

But the thoughts behind are great. Cloud computing is the future and it can be a gift for the modding community...

John Carmack thinks about using it for Tech 5. Normally its impossible to mod a game with the Tech 5 engine but with cloud computing its possible.

 

Cloud computing gives you the possibility to get access to a server farm and use thousands of Terrabytes and a CPU with several Teraflops....

Normally nobody has such a system at home...

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

Steam is a chance and not necessary a threat

Edited November 22, 2010 by Valasthor

[Marthos]

So many arguments for it

 

So many arguments against it

 

So many people happy about Steam

 

So many people unhappy about Steam

 

 

The most disappointing aspect of the whole damn caboodle is that a monopoly is being created that takes away a consumers (and an individuals) most fundamental right, the right to choose.

 

Release a Steam version and a none Steam version so people can choose which one they want to use and everybody is happy, rather than the current scenario of "its Steam or nothing".

 

Would it be wrong to implement this?

 

NO

 

Would it be so hard to implement?

 

NO

 

Would eat all the profits to do this?

 

NO

 

Would game companies loose sleep at night because they actually did something that would keep all of their fans happy ?

 

I sometimes wonder.

[DarkWarrior45]

People are not going to stop pirates from pirating stuff, just like no security system is breach-proof. But you can reduce it.

 

Stardock did something interesting with their title Galactic Civilizations; they actually permitted you to copy and distribute to other people, but you could not download updates or play online unless your installation was registered, and they knew if more than one person had registered a game because the cd key involved with the registration was permanently tied to your account and name. If more than one person registered the same cd key, they banned that cd key.

 

Either way, I like Steam. It enables me to have access to the indie games, games that do not have the resources to publish millions of hard copies and then distribute them. Basically, you make a game and you publish via steam. Easy. In fact, I would not be surprised if hard copies disappeared all together. I really do not see what all the ruckus is about people not liking Steam.

 

As for people wanting a physical copy: they're called DVD-Rs. They're cheap. The Stables where I'm at sells them $20 for a 25 pack. A cd label maker will make them pretty for you too.

Plus, I believe you can re-download a game, in the event you get a new computer or need to reinstall windows.

 

And btw, some pirates release games as a trial basis; they provide the full version of the game, and then say that you need to buy the actual game if you like what you played. This is just some of them, and not all of them. Others are what Vagrant described. Basically every pirate has his/her own agenda in the reasoning why they're pirating games and you cannot stick one label/reason on the entire underground. I'm not going into any further details on the working of the pirates and the details on games being illegally distributed because I could be (and most likely will be) risking breaking forum rules and Vagrant has already done a good enough job explaining it.

 

Also, when you deal with pirated software you are dealing with the world's most technologically advanced criminal underground. Tread softly.

[CommanderCrazy]

I agree with Valasthor.

Ubisoft's DRM was a good idea, but they executed it horribly.

Cloud in general is a god idea, but the only system I've seen that is stable is, well, none of them.