North Korea Shells South Korea

[Chaosblade02]

I think you are at best, badly misinformed Chaosblade.

 

To avoid offending you, that's all I'll say, that, and that I couldnt disagree more strongly with what you've said.

 

Even if China and NK WERE allies, it's unlikely they are now, NK provoked half the world into anger with this shelling, it's not just the west that doesnt like them.

 

It's a very embarrising, stupidly violent action that will have major consequences, I think China's leaders are smart enough to see that supporting NK just isnt profitable.

 

Because if they side with NK, and NK destroys any one of the western nations, China stands to lose a LOT.

 

Their economy relies heavily on western economies, we are a massive export market, and I dont doubht they're smart enough to see that siding with NK simply isnt worth it to them. Idealogicaly, militarily, or financialy.

 

All they'd get out of NK winning this theoretical yet likely war would be a much stronger thorn in their side. If anything, i think they'd side AGAINST NK, just for a change to get rid of them.

 

And Chaos, you Americans DID have a nueclear armed tyrant just off the coast for decades. His name was Fidel Castro. Do not forget the Cuban Missile Crisis, it was a fascinating piece of history and fairly related to this situation we are now in.

 

You all are mistaken, China is using NK as a geo-political chip, in order to get China's support with NK we must do something for them in return. Israel is just as much of a tyrant as NK is with regards to human rights violations, but the US still supports them, Iraq being supported by the Reagan administration in their war with Iran is another example. NK is being used by China, and when China is done with them, their regime will collapse. The same way America turned on Iraq after supporting them only a few years earlier.

 

All of you are also mistaken if you think China is an ally of the US. China is in it for China only.

 

Also everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that South Korea fired the first shots to instigate this conflict. South Korea admits they fired the first shots into North Korean territory.

 

And if you knew anything about the Cuban Missile crisis, you would know that Fidel Castro did not control the nuclear arsenal, the USSR did. And that situation is completely different compared to North Korea, where a real lunatic has control of Nuclear weapons. The US and USSR were discouraged from nuclear war, because it would have been mutually assured destruction.

 

If they put a nuke in an artillery shell, it would be impossible for us to shoot it down, and Seoul is only 30 miles or so from the DMZ, a large enough artillery piece could hit that with a nuke.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Chaosblade02

[Balagor]

China is no ones allies, but their own. I still don´t think they will pay the price for supporting NK. They have a growing economy, a growing infrastructure, a growing you name it. Why should they risk all that by choosing a side? They even have a very fragile internal structure, I.E if they involved them self in a bad war, their own people might rise against the leadership, and protest against those human rights that aren´t good anyway. However if they are forced to make a choice, I am pretty sure they choose the US and rest of the western world. Not because they feel they have anything in common with us, but it is here the trade goes.

[Chaosblade02]

You all are posting nothing but hypothetical reasons and situations as to what you think China "Should" do, don't speak of it like it is fact, because the actions of China are proving to be the complete opposite. And have been through history with regards to North Korea, any time we got the Chinese to back us, we had to give something in return. You don't think the UN and the US and other governments haven't already asked China to help us get rid of the North Korean problem? If it was in their interests they would have dealt with this problem YEARS ago, and they haven't. Edited November 25, 2010 by Chaosblade02

[JimboUK]

It's hard to know what China would do, China have agreed to sanctions against NK on more than one occasion yet they continue to trade with them. Trade with the west might be the deciding factor, China would be in serious trouble if all the lucrative contracts from western companies were torn up.

[Vindekarr]

ChaosBlade, you have just officialy earned my disdain, strike two, one more before I change that to dislike and really get angry.

 

A Nueclear Warhead is an exceptionaly hevay piece of equipment.

 

A very powerful Howitzer could push 30 miles range, but loading a nueclear device into it's breach would greatly reduce that range.

 

Secondly, you're missing a very, very important, very, very obvious problem with that: IT WOULD KILL NK TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You seem to have it in your head that nukes are like the tiny little things in the CNC games.

 

They are not, the world's smallest nuke still has a vast blast radius, and it's fallout would obliterate NK if use on SK.

 

It doesnt matter how they deliver it, it would be a suicidal action.

 

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The reason they have not "dealt with" the "NK problem" is because they just cant.

 

Politics prevents them from doing that. If they brought even half their military down on NK, they'd obliterate it, but they cant, because every single western politician with a grudge against commies would rise up in anger and cause them more trouble than it ever could be worth.

 

They cant destroy NK unless NK gives them a really big excuse.

 

Frankly the only reason they're trading with them is because that's the only way they can profit with such a homicidal neighbour. If you gave China the chance, I would place money on that they'd take it, and burn NK to the ground in a heartbeat. But until now, they havent had a chance to eliminate them in a way that they themselves would not be damaged by, and thus have had their hands tied.

 

After all, you had Cuba for so long, why didnt you yanks do anything about 'em? For that matter, we have PNG, and we cant just give them the national boltround in the head they deserve, because everyone would, rather ironicaly seeing as how bad ethnic tentions are there, scream that we were being racist.\

 

The world is full of countries that would be annihilated in a second if their neighbours got an excuse. The whole point of diplomats is to make sure thay never do.

[Balagor]

@ Vindekarr

Best post so far. You put it very clear. Kudos

[Chaosblade02]

ChaosBlade, you have just officialy earned my disdain, strike two, one more before I change that to dislike and really get angry.

 

A Nueclear Warhead is an exceptionaly hevay piece of equipment.

 

A very powerful Howitzer could push 30 miles range, but loading a nueclear device into it's breach would greatly reduce that range.

 

Secondly, you're missing a very, very important, very, very obvious problem with that: IT WOULD KILL NK TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You seem to have it in your head that nukes are like the tiny little things in the CNC games.

 

They are not, the world's smallest nuke still has a vast blast radius, and it's fallout would obliterate NK if use on SK.

 

It doesnt matter how they deliver it, it would be a suicidal action.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The reason they have not "dealt with" the "NK problem" is because they just cant.

 

Politics prevents them from doing that. If they brought even half their military down on NK, they'd obliterate it, but they cant, because every single western politician with a grudge against commies would rise up in anger and cause them more trouble than it ever could be worth.

 

They cant destroy NK unless NK gives them a really big excuse.

 

Frankly the only reason they're trading with them is because that's the only way they can profit with such a homicidal neighbour. If you gave China the chance, I would place money on that they'd take it, and burn NK to the ground in a heartbeat. But until now, they havent had a chance to eliminate them in a way that they themselves would not be damaged by, and thus have had their hands tied.

 

After all, you had Cuba for so long, why didnt you yanks do anything about 'em? For that matter, we have PNG, and we cant just give them the national boltround in the head they deserve, because everyone would, rather ironicaly seeing as how bad ethnic tentions are there, scream that we were being racist.\

 

The world is full of countries that would be annihilated in a second if their neighbours got an excuse. The whole point of diplomats is to make sure thay never do.

 

You got no clue what you are talking about, you sound like a mad man rambling about a fairy tale world. And you know nothing about weapons payloads, saying a nuclear payload would somehow decrease the range? You got no clue dude. Maybe I can spell it out for you, here is one the US had in the 50s : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M65_Atomic_Cannon, 15 kiloton warhead, or 15000 tons of TNT, still considered a low yield nuke, enough to destroy a couple city blocks, but not enough to have a real adverse effect on surrounding hundreds of miles, or even 50 miles because the payload is low yield as well as the radiation fallout, 20-30 miles away with a nuke this low of a yield, you would be in a very safe position, you are way overestimating the nuclear fallout. This one only had a range of 20 miles, but this is also a 60 year old piece of technology.

 

And once Cuba was disarmed and the USSR removed their weapons, we couldn't care less about Cuba, because they were not a direct threat to us, plus the embargo on Cuba was doing enough to suppress them.

 

And guess what I do believe that the North Koreans would be suicidal, if someone was to push really harsh economic sanctions or an outright embargo on them. They would essentially have nothing left to lose, therefore they would basically make a last stand and pop as many nukes off as they can before we take them out, in which case it would be Fallout: Korea. And possibly Fallout: Japan. And South Korea has no nukes BTW, they would have to rely on the US to retaliate. And North Korea has said it would mean war if they placed an embargo on them, I don't believe they are bluffing either.

 

Vindekarr, China has had opportunity, after opportunity to join the world community and take a hard stance on North Korea, if they really wanted to do something about it, the US would be all ears, North Korea vs the US and China = no more North Korea, but we all know that isn't gonna happen, you have no idea about the interests and motives of the Chinese, they are some sly bastards to deal with.

 

And still nobody has had any comments about South Korea firing the first shots?

 

 

It's hard to know what China would do, China have agreed to sanctions against NK on more than one occasion yet they continue to trade with them. Trade with the west might be the deciding factor, China would be in serious trouble if all the lucrative contracts from western companies were torn up.

 

Now someone is finally thinking common sense here, instead of hoping/thinking China will go with the interests of the World.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Chaosblade02

[Vindekarr]

Thank you.

 

ChaosBlade, there are many ways to civily show you disagree with somebody. Calling them a madman is not one of them.

 

Just because I AM a madman, doesnt mean you have any right to call me one, henceforth, I no longer going to read anything you post.

 

If China had a chance to act-you mark my words they WOULD act, I was reading in the newspaper today that China supposedly COULDNT rein in NK even if they wanted to-they've gotten themselves backed into a political corner.

 

All that military might is moot, because they're tied to staying in NK's good books... for now.

 

But if push comes to shove, as it already is, I strongly suspect China would enter any war-if it even bothered that is-on the side of the west.

 

They need us and we need them, and they'd have a huge oppertunity to strengthen ties.

 

Because if they sided with us, they'd be trading NK for stronger western ties, probably improving their trade output somewhat. however if they side with NK, it's the opposite, and they wouldnt profit much out of that now would they?

 

The new cat among the pidgeons here however is the USA.

 

"Massive" wargames have bnow been schedualed for off the NK coast-USA and SK in collaberation. it's a naked shot over the bow at NK, and if they object to this like thay have to other recent exercises, could be the thing that finaly kicks this farce off.

 

Place yer bets ladies and gentlemen, place yer bets! Our moronic leaders on both sides are throwing us into yet another mindless conflict over who's proverbial genitalia is bigger, who will win? who will get their face broken? who will lob the first nuke? It seems like we need but watch and wait. :)

Edited November 25, 2010 by Vindekarr

[Chaosblade02]

delete Edited November 26, 2010 by Chaosblade02

[Chaosblade02]

Thank you.

 

ChaosBlade, there are many ways to civily show you disagree with somebody. Calling them a madman is not one of them.

 

 

ChaosBlade, you have just officialy earned my disdain, strike two, one more before I change that to dislike and really get angry.

 

It was awful juvenile of you to threaten to get mad over a post. That is why I called you a madman.