BLOG PIECE: Modding as a hobby versus modding as a career, and the position of the Nexus

[CalmDragon]

If money was involved every body out there would release their mord in parts like ewi's did in the past.

[WightMage]

In response to post #23604199.

After reading your thread, replaced my error with this reply:

We need more people like you. Knowledge is, and should continue, to be free. The time is most likely coming- stand fast. Edited March 20, 2015 by WightMage

[WightMage]

"And so, if you're wondering where the Nexus sits in between all of this, then you'll find us sitting where we've always been sitting, right here, without fundamentally changing. We're still going to be about the free and open distribution of mods for everyone and I don't see that changing any time soon. Sure, I've had offers. Lots of offers. And I don't discount anything at all, but right now, for the foreseeable future, there are no plans to shake things up at all. I have absolutely no idea how these changes within the modding community are going to affect the community here at the Nexus, but I think that there's still going to be a market for a site that continues to offer a free and open sharing platform, away from money, where people who want to continue modding as a hobby, not a career, can shine."

 

It's for stuff like this that I have a lot of respect for you, Dark0ne. Keep on trucking, as they say over here.

 

On that note, I could totally see modders being "paid" for their work, but still releasing their content for free. It's all in the how's- thanks to a website like Patreon, for instance, people can support their favorite webartists and authors financially even though their work is open to the public for free. There's a large disparity between how much one artist makes over another, of course- it's all popularity based- but it also means that the original point of web comics, mainly comics that anyone with an internet connection can read and enjoy without paying anything, can and will survive tomorrow.

 

Honestly, looking around some of the more intense mods on this site, some mod authors are already putting their finances ahead of "modding as a hobby," either by quitting the mod scene because they aren't receiving the support they once did, or by advertising their indie projects, or even by leaving a tip jar on a mod page. I think that while it's inevitable that more people will enter modding for the monetary aspects, ultimately there will only be two kind of people producing mods: Those who do it full time as their bread and butter, and those who do it because they love it, and happen to make money on the side. It seems to me that this sort of thing exists in all forms of art, since frankly, not just any schmuck can create a mod/webcomic/book/movie/let's play and immediately rake in millions.

 

Now, about your comment on the DRMing of mod content... I think that's what we should really be afraid of. Maybe if we gamers, as an unholy, impossibly large anarchic entity, can force game companies to keep 3rd party mod lists and communities open and DRM free as possible from the get go, this won't be as large of a problem as it could be. There IS a market in the present day for DRM less video games, for instance. Why not a market for moddable games that don't require "curating"?

[Dheuster]

Modding is fun because it is a hobby. Keeping it free also limits the stress I feel in regards to support. Money sounds great, but it wouldn't be steady and it probably wouldn't be enough to make a living on. And even if it was, I don't know how this would work tax wise. Is Valve going to take on the tax paperwork burden for each paid mod author as if they are an employee? People live in a lot of different places with a lot of different tax requirements. I just don't see this working at a large scale. Maybe a few dozen "elite" authors and mods at most. Certainly not the scale we see here at the Nexus.

[JacketteFarcryer]

Oh man, this really seems like it's going to be terrible for modding. If Valve actually goes through with this, I'm not going to forgive them. Modding is what kept gaming alive for me and if they're going to open it up to such horrendous abuse, theft, and overall insanity, this is going to be absolutely terrible for all involved.

 

Modding is one of those really amazing things that shows a very positive side to people as a whole, sharing content freely to celebrate a game, to celebrate the medium. When money gets involved, it gets corrupted and messed up beyond recognition.

 

I'm very happy that the Nexus is at least not going to fall so easily.

Hi everyone,

 

I just became a Premium Member here [bUT I'm also a NEWBIE, well obviously right? LOL]

 

I couldn't agree more. I trust Nexus not to fall so easily. In fact, I hope they fight it tooth & nail.

 

I really don't mind supporting mods/modders I like & respect, but as you said at least as far as the big gaming corporations are concerned, money is the B all & end all of corruption. Just look at Ubisoft as a prime example.

 

All their games go through uplay. As soon as you install that there's constant trouble & interferance if like me, you're a NON-MULTIPLAYER Far Cry Freak. I adore the Far Cry Franchise but absolutely HATE going online for it. Yet ubisoft, uplay, & now Origin all work in conjuction to keep you online. Don't get me started on the horriffic log-in proceedures for all of them that are just ludicrous to say the least!

 

After six months, Ubisoft, in all it's so-called-wisdom, turns its back on all the games they ever bring out, thereby stopping their ongoing support. This leaves the modders somewhat stranded.

 

They either have to learn how to mod themselves or choose to ask permission to other's content in or for their impending mods. For any greedy money-hungry modder who wishes to "cash in" on unsuspecting "Newbie" Modders, they can basically charge what they want. Depending on the company they work for and indeed their moral decorum [or lack thereof], it can get quite expensive.

 

The flipside of that however, is of course the reckless modders who don't give a toss & willing go out of their way to steal other modders content without permission, using everybody elses stuff in their mods, yet claiming they made it all themselves. You only have to look at you tube for evidence of this.

 

I can see both sides of the argument.

 

My opinion is this:

 

If you absolutely love a game enough to play it many times over without getting bored - then you should definitely look at becoming the best modder that you can be.

 

Mods should be free, however if you truly feel you'd like to donate to a particularly hardworking modder, then my advice is don't hesitate, because it will give back to the community ten-fold in that, the modder you support will be encouraged to expand & better their mods to share with their computer community.

 

Everyone benefits.

 

Forget the big gaming Corps. Mod from the heart, do what you love, share - give permission if and when asked, or stipulate on download, that your stuff may be used in other mods if this is what you want.

 

If I ever get around to modding, that is what I will do, so that everyone can benefit. [Providing I can learn how to mod properly & my stuff is good enough to download!]

 

That is my biggest wish atm - to learn to mod. I know absolutely JackSh*t about it right now, but I plan to change that real soon.

 

Cheers,

[Thaiauxn]

I use modding kind of as a test bed for ideas I can never get by with at work. I also mod for fun, but rarely. I don't see it as a hobby, I see it as a learning experience and practice.

 

I think, for a select few freelancers who want to make this a livable career, then for-profit mods could be a viable solution to escaping from the hell of choosing between chronic unemployment, slavery to The Man, or being forced to go to work outside your vocation to support your art habit.

 

It could also help freelancers and professionals alike by providing a viable solution for experimentation that right now just doesn't exist. If you want to make a really simple gameplay mechanic, or if you have a challenging narrative, or an art piece that you want to test, your options are:

 

1. Use all your own money to develop a brand new OIP to release for profit and maybe not go bankrupt

2. Get a day job and pay for your experiment time which you conduct at night and release for free as a mod

3. Convince a wealthy patron to support you while you work on a mod or OIP

 

What this is doing is making it so that iteration, exploration, experimentation, and science, are just going out the window. Any R&D is being done at a major personal sacrifice that the corporations then look at and harvest for intelligence. Or at best, it's making experimenting financially in-viable for all but the exceptionally wealthy and their offspring, or strictly for kids living at home.

 

If they're modders now living on their own, they quit the nexus community at about 22-25 because they have class / work and all that experience goes flying out of the forums with them. You don't come back til you're in your later 30s-50s and have spare time. That's classic brain-drain. It's a community killer, and it's because of there being no way to make this passion support itself.

 

To be honest, most career artists I know are begging for a second line of income. If they could get it from mods rather than Starbucks and Michaels, they'd do it. I sure as hell would. If Beth or Valve says that's fine, I'd argue for allowing for-profit mods on the Nexus. Until then, however, I'm fine with the non-profit only clause, because I'd be doing this either way.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Thaiauxn

[Psijonica]

I predicted this in a thread in the forum MODS RELOADED in 2012.

 

It is inevitable that the good modders will be paid for their work/mods. The future financial viability of the gaming industry will be closely associated with user generated content. If you look at internet poker and the world poker tour, as well as professional gamers which the top teams earn 100K+ (each player on the team so a team of 5 earns 500k) what is the big suprise here? Your children will be buying mods like they buy music off of iTunes.

 

Not everybody will make money doing it so there will always be room for a NEXUSMODS however this place will have to conform at least a little to compete with the gaming companies. I can assure you that BLIZZARD will be doing something similar soon. The gaming companies will soon need an element of control over the UGC. This idea of Valve's provides a framework.

 

As soon as you guys allowed money to get involved by the form of "donations", what did you think would happen? It is you own naivety that blinded you. As soon as the corporations saw that users would pay for mods and that is what a donation is, a payment they realized that they wanted to control that revenue. And the courts will take their side because all the content is owned by the gaming company. This is not a BLIZZARD modding community but there is already lots of precedent where they strictly controlled what was allowed and what was not allowed in UGC for their games. Bethesda has been watching and obviously they see the future. A future where they are more involved.

 

I wrote a complete a-z format for which modders could make money and it could easily be implemented right here on the nexus overnight. It is so simple actually and I think is much better and makes a lot more sense but I also think this plan of Valve's is very exciting.

 

This place and it's success is why Valve and Bethesda are doing this and so if the NEXUSMODS wants to survive in the future I believe it will have change and go with the flow, unite their community and actually come up will ideas to keep their popular authors from leaving and going to Valve and Steam.

 

That will mean offering modders incentives to stay and MAKE THEIR MODS AVAILABLE ON THE NEXUS ONLY. Basically like signing a contract on a sports team. Now will the NEXUSMODS be able to pay like Valve and STEAM? No. But there are other ways the NEXUSMODS can compete if they think outside of the box and be a little creative.

 

In short there is no doubt in my mind that your children will be paying for mods and that modders will be able to make a living making mods. 20 years ago no one thought that young men and women would leave Law School to play poker for a living yet that is what is hapening now and 10 years ago no one thought that an 19 year old ling in their parents basement would be making 100K a year but that is hapening now...

 

Dark0ne... you better open your eyes and start think out side of the box otherwise you will be left behind. There will always be a place for a NEXUSMODS but you will be kicking yourself 10 years from now if yuo don't srop ranting and start thinking.

 

Over 10 years ago you asked EMMA to practice uploading her mods on your server so you could perfect it. You were ahead of you time. Yes there were other places doing it but you started doing it too. Look where you are today. Where do you want to be tomorrow? You are not Valve. But there are ways you can compete. Consolidate you user base and rebuild your community that has be fragmented and come up with a way where you are able to keep modders to release their mods on your website otherwise there is not a doubt in my mind that STEAM and Valve will be successful in this endeavour.

 

Fun times for sure ;D

Edited March 20, 2015 by Psijonica

[HolyJoe09]

With BioWare and DICE it's about EA wanting to use the Frostbite engine as a selling point; something proprietary that potential competitors can't get their fingers into. It's true though, like removal of online passes just to replace them with microtransactions, that in practice it will become just another means of control for the less scrupulous. Having said that, I have to believe that Bethesda and ZeniMax see how great the modding community has been for TES and continue to encourage modding by making it as open source and malleable as possible. On the other hand they could sell out so badly that the next iteration omits PC entirely. They sure made love to the Xbox with Skyrim.

[Tair]

Thanks for this, Robin. This post has reminded me that it's time for me to go Premium once again to support your efforts.

 

I am also reminded of how much I dislike Steam. You can scarcely buy a physical game copy nowadays without needing Steam to install and play it. Monetizing mods is just the next step.

 

I'd like to indicate that I am not against modders being compensated for their efforts, as that topic was already covered quite a ways back via the donation button discussion. What I take significant issue with is Steam's ever-increasing footprint.

[RoyBatterian]

The biggest problem I see arising from this is modders claiming IP rights to things. Modder A decides to make Weather mod A, and modder B decides to do the same thing. Modder A releases their mod first and then goes, THIS IDEA IS MINE YOU CAN'T USE IT. Then no one else ever will be able to make a weather mod, even if Mod A is a giant steaming pile of crap because they own the "IP" or some micro bit of script code or some other "content".

 

It has already been a set precedent that even the tiniest snippet of code or idea can be copyrighted, and this kind of micro management is exactly what has ruined a great many things. Zenimax already does with the word "scrolls".

 

That's the kind of garbage that will come down the pike as big companies already do it. Modding will become a wasteland of petty disputes over copyright and intellectual property. So will end what we know today as modding, it will thus be renamed third party content creation for profit.

 

Think about your own greedy nature and the reasons you mod. Perhaps you do it for the wrong ones and only seek to use it a platform to fulfill your selfish desires at everyone else's expense.

 

I would also bid you to have a lawyer take a look at the EULA for the tools you use to create content. You should not and cannot interpret them how you like, or think that Bethesda or Zenimax is in ANY WAY your corner. They can and will take your content and ideas, and have already without compensation or even acknowledgement to the modders who created them.

 

Business is war.