Mature Discussion: "Offensive" Mods

[BulletSix]

wow ... a really touchy subject that is not turning into a flamewar :)

And now my semi-coherent 2cts:

 

You should just remember that this group of sites is owned by a private individual. Your free speech rights do not apply. If you look at him wrong, you can get banned, it is his prerogative. So just don't go out of your way to post something he won't like, or else go start your own site full of misguided mods. There's nothing stopping you from doing that.

This is one of the most neglected or ignored facts in the internet *g*

But this is not only be true for private owned forums but by companies forums aswell ;)

 

I think everybody has his own biased view of any mod he sees. I often think "wow, that was worth releasing?" but then again: if someone downloads it, someone wants to use or at least try it, so its not my place to judge.

This applies to "quality standards" aswell as to "moral standards".

 

I personally wouldn`r DL a mod that allows me to wear an nazi uniform. But i wouldn`t DL a mod that lets me shoot nazis because just of the fact that they are nazis, either. Either one is pointless for me. If there is a story and a new (invading) faction behind them, thats a whole other matter.

 

And: anti-semitism was not inverted by the nazis. They just were very effective with it, because the possibilities existed and were fully commited to it. This kind of sick ideology (having one people more worthy than others), being based of religion, color or gender or whatever silly reason one can come up with, is very common in human history. Sure, the degrees vary quite a bit, and the different timely distances to todays viewpoint make them seem less cruel, the farther away they are. But being long gone doensn`t make it less wrong.

So the comparison between the Legion as they are displayed in Fo:NV and some other totalistic movements isn`t that far fetched.

 

My final statement for this post:

Yes i am german. No i don`t want to trivialize the crueltys of the Nazis, nor do i want to say "they got a point" by any interpretation of my words.

If someone is offended by my post, feel free to pm me.

[JimmyFury]

I'd have to say I pretty much feel the same way as the OP... for the most part.

 

I don't get offended easily so tasteless as some mods are, they don't actually offend me. Confuse, irritate, and induce exasperated sighs but they don't offend.

Mostly they just confuse me. I honestly can't comprehend the mindset required to want those mods. The Army Men/Gomorrah Girls mods for example. For the life of me I can't comprehend why someone would be so... distraught by female soldiers and male prostitutes that they would need to use time and energy to go through and mod them out of the game. It boggles my mind. I don't think they should be pulled or banned or even thumbed down, I just get confused by their purpose.

Mind you, I feel the exact same confusion when people ask for a mod that lets them shoot nazis just for the heck of it... nazi zombies sure, they're zombies, but actual nazi soldiers with no story behind them? Pointless... and tasteless when you consider how service was forced on German citizens whether they supported the nazis or not.

 

But yes, I find the comments brought on by these mods to be more disheartening than the mods themselves. Arcade being called a "non-human", suggesting he or Veronica should be "fixed" as if they're broken, someone on the SS uniform comments saying "everyone wants their race to be the best!', etc. I find them utterly depressing. I function quite happily under the delusion that our world has evolved beyond such archaic concepts so any reminder that it hasn't is just... crappy.

 

However, when it comes to their place on the nexus I think everything comes back to Dark0ne and legality. Our opinions are utterly irrelevant. It's a private site so the owner's call is the word of god. More importantly even his word is trumped by the law. Pedophilia mods are questionable at the best of times and would be bound to cause endless real legal problems. Nazi imagery, as has been pointed out, is illegal in Germany so again there are real issues involved that go beyond anyone's personal opinions. While Dark0ne can't get in trouble, I'm quite sure he doesn't want his site to be responsible for anyone else getting in trouble either.

[buddah]

Just a short note on censorship.....we do very little of it here and there is a reason for that stance. If it is illegal in the US or the UK it will not be allowed, that is clearly stated in the Terms of Service.

 

The crux of censorship is this; "who gets to decide what we don't allow ?", trust me there are ongoing discussions about this matter presently in the staff forums.

 

Every mod on this site is probably illegal somewhere for some reason. But we only concern ourselves with the UK and US laws, the reason is simple.....the business is registered in the UK and we must follow their laws, while the servers for the most part are in the US and the same thing applies.

 

While any member of the staff may find an offering to be tacky, tasteless and offending we are most reluctant to remove it, even when it violates our personal beliefs and moral scruples. Because are a wide and varied community, out individual opinions become meaningless in the grand scheme of the site. We operate under a single rule for the most part, for the staff that rule is; "The sire comes first !" Simple but quite true, every action taken is to ensure the security and stability of the site, forums and the community membership.

 

Dark0ne sets the course and we guide the ship on that heading, making changes and corrections along the way. Since it is Robin's site it will always be his way, his word is law here and his decision has no appeal. I would have it no other way, as I know what it takes and costs to create, update and control a site of this magnitude. I see the hours that the staff puts in here, my hours alone are in the thousands during my tenure.....this place does not run itself, and the time that Robin spends here would amaze and astound you.

 

Do we make mistakes? Absolutely ! But very few things cannot be undone and every action is reviewed by Dark0ne and the rest of the staff, so in the end we are all singing the same song ! None of the staff knows it all, but collectively we have most of the bases covered and we rely on the community and each other for a better collective decision.

 

Just the ramblings of an old man, but from the heart.

 

Buddah aka Micky

[durklives]

Honestly, I can see where people are coming from with these mods. Certain cultures for example place women at a lower standard than men, and if someone from one of those cultures was playing New Vegas then maybe they would want their game to reflect that.Because that's what mods do for me, they allow me to change the game and make it reflect whatever I want. Not saying I do, but if I wanted to become a Nazi in New Vegas, who's to say I can't?Because New Vegas is a GAME. It's not real life, it's not going to matter 5 years from now whether or not I was good or evil on Fallout :New Vegas.See, games provide us with a way to escape. and if you want to escape into a post-apocalyptic Neo-Nazi universe then who's to say you can't do that?My main point is this: Live and Let Live. For those who want to download Nazi mods or misogynistic mods, they should be able to. It may reflect their culture and make the game more enjoyable as a whole. And that's all I try to do as a modder, to make the game more fun and enjoyable. I know its hard to "live and let live" but come on. This is 2010, we are past what the Romans did to us and past what Hitler did to us. I seriously doubt that anyone playing this game right now had to deal with Nazis hunting them down and sending them to concentration camps. I mean, honestly, to those who say the SS mods are bad, why?Can't those who want those things be left alone?Can't you just exit the page peacefully and choose not to download those mods?If you are so affected by Hitler now, in 2010, then why are you playing a game which involves killing people?I feel like I'm rambling on, but honestly, just let people be who they are. It would make the world a better place.

 

Ok, where to start "It's just a game", this is impractical as any sort of argument.

Videogames can, and will offend people. Fine, create your barbaric backwards ass mods, but keep that to yourself.

Taking something hateful or flagrantly barbaric and posting it on the internet will only propagate the ideas that this s*** is ok, when it is not.

 

Lets apply this same type of thinking to allowing child prostitution in the game.

Think about it, it doesn't hurt anyone, the children are all virtual, it may offend but its not like someone is forcing you to download it.

Victimless right?.

 

Whether or not something is part of someones "Culture" doesn't make it any less barbaric.

And before you say anything like "Oh, but pedophilia isn't part of anyone's culture"

Muhammad, consummated his marriage with his wife when she was 9.

In South Africa exists an old and accepted sex trade, So accepted it is widely considered part of their culture. girls as young as 12 can be legally wed.

 

Here is my favorite part,

just let people be who they are. It would make the world a better place.

 

Well, honestly, all our problems right now are stemming from intolerance and/or butting in where we are not welcome.

I would hate to see a mod about about child prostitution but honestly if I ran this sight the adult prostitution would be moved somewhere else.

All I am saying is, I feel like all cultures should be supported.

But ultimately that's up to Dark0ne.

 

What you are "adding", that this is Dark0ne's website, blah blah blah, has been said a thousand times ad nauseum already. Seriously, the complete lack of respect for freedom around here is telling. It's a wonder you guys don't love Atombombe's mod because you're all a bunch of little Hitlers around here.

 

And the "I know it when I see it" what is meant by that is if it gave the judge a boner then it would be pornography.

 

I would have it no other way

 

And those who would want to be ruled by Kings.

Edited December 18, 2010 by durklives

[Dark0ne]

Think that's enough from durklives :teehee:

[Azrael120782]

To me,almost nothing offends me,But not everyones that way.

 

You could make a mod that makes you like General Custers game( Im sure you older gamers know what Im talking about) and Id just find it funny and move on.

 

Its a game,mod it to how you want it,dont like a mod? click back and go to the next one that looks interesting,

[TBGT]

Firstly, thank you to the admin, moderators and majority of posters. As FatherAzerun says, this topic has been mostly kept civil and on track and has made an interesting read.

 

Secondly to the supporters of the "Live and let live" thought train. I have just one more thought to add to the mix. IF a pedophilia mod was made, would you complain? Or would you run with "Live and let live"?

 

While I am in no way saying that they[Nazi mods, Army men mod] are of equivalent moral sickness as a pedophilia mod, they do however cause some people uncomfort when being posted in this rather public but privately owned forum.

 

As FatherAzerun has said they encourage people, supportive of those views, to share them with us and, with this being a private forum, the admins and modding community as well.

 

Would you want pedophiles saying about how their view of child "love" is right and saying how they should be allowed to express that in the game? I think[hope] that the majority of us would say no.

 

So why have a rule for one and a rule for another? No mod can be instantly judged, it takes time to look at every aspect of what it contains, delivers and aims to achieve, however there is no question that a mod designed to glorify those views should be held to account after rigorous debate of its pro's and con's.

 

I am by no means a moral saint but there are lines which are made with the idea of them not being crossed. In this forum, and these collected sites, the lines are drawn by the admins guided by the morals of our societies. Cross the lines? Don't expect to get treated as an exception.

[StapleNinja]

The SS Uniforms and Army Men mod were pretty bad, but by FAR the worst thing on this site is that about 50% of ALL the mods are pornographic in nature / concern outfitting your female PC with strange clothing options.

 

SERIOUSLY PEOPLE? Grow the hell up, either go outside and talk to a girl, or if you insist to retain your freak asexuality, please keep your sexual deviance OUT of the mods section.

 

On the other hand, I try to keep an open mind, and I don't advocate censorship, but frankly, I expected more from the community than for mods like Type BB, Beware of Girl or Animated Prostitution to ever have existed int he first place. It's actually kind of funny because every person responsible for making a tits mod the most downloaded on the site is only furthering the stereotype that gamers are agoraphobic dorks.

[Quetzlsacatanango]

I guess we will remove the gun from your head that forces you to use mods you don't like then.

[geeee785]

First off I love this game, and I love the mods and appreciate the time everyone puts into each and every single mod. The thing I don't understand is why there is so much of a discussion in regards to the morality of certain mods considering the game lacks morals all around. Too complain that making a mod that makes women like a 2nd rate citizen yet not complain about the fact that a good percentage of women in this game are prostitutes is kind of mind-boggling. I don't understand how people can pick and choose what they think is right and wrong and make a big deal of the things they think are wrong. I completely respect the nexus for their view and guidelines as they are hosting the content but for individuals to try to knit pick on certain things they don't like considering the game that they are playing is illogical.