Steam

[WizardOfAtlantis]

Once more, at least half of the pirate copies will be sold, pre hacked, on disk. In street markets all across the world, one person has either downloaded a hacked copy or in places like Mumbai or Manila with loads of local programming talent just hacks it on the spot.

An STEAM isn't going to even slow that down! Its not going to make the slightest difference. And as I cannot bring myself to believe the devs are completely stupid and unaware of this then I have to ask what else are they getting out of it? because it isn't security.

At this point I'll let my paranoia off the leash. Supposing a cabal of people with a vision for the future of PC use wanted to get the public accustomed to not having control of their PC's systems. Oh wait, they have already done that most of us have more idea of whats going on on the other side of the planet than whats happening in our 'system32' folder. So maybe Steam is a tool for manufacturing consent for null ownership, where simply paying for something gives you no rights whatsoever (except paying again and again!)

If that sounds wild try, weaponization of internet space! does anyone here doubt that your steam installation couldn't cripple or destroy your operating system if it was directed to? Military intelligence assessments are based on what an opponent 'Could' do, not! what they currently 'want' to do. And if you believe that the folk behind Steam put 'Your' interests first . . . You are hallucinating! And in the extremely unlikely event that, that were the case, what about next month, next year. . .

 

Well I think we've heard enough from paranoia, interesting place to visit but you wouldn't want to live there eh?

 

But as for "There is nothing "evil" about making profit, its what the world economy is based on, its why we have progression". Er, well in many cases yes there is, that's why its down the $h!tter and ask someone in Zimbabwe about progress.

 

All too true.

 

Of course, it wouldn't even need to be Steam/Valve, it could be some pissed-off fanatic hacker in a basement somewhere that cracks their stuff and puts something evil into one of their automatic updates...automatic updates that I have seen in my own personal experience that even when you set your game to not be automatically updated, it can get changed back without your knowing.

 

Steam already blinkered my pc one night in the beginning when it updated my drivers with drivers that weren't compatible with my gpu! took me a while to get that straightened out as I had a miniscule screen resolution and my windows didn't fit in the screen! Had to work through disinstallation, etc windows by just remembeing where the buttons were. I was in the end able to fix it but my wife, for example, wouldn't have figured it out as she's not into this kind of thing and just thinks it should *work* (and rightly so, she's Mac-minded, as am I). She would have had to call someone to fix it for her and all thanks to their *updates*.

 

Now if it had been some nasty virus instead of an incompatible driver... :nuke:

[rhystel]

Well the always online drm is not from steam but from the game publishers (in fact i've stopped putting money on ubisoft games right after AC2 being dropped out of MY single player game because theres some problem with THEIR server kind of took the fun out of it --_--) theres an offline mode and a good deal of thing that can be customised from your setting i didnt really get any trouble yet and it still less intrusive than always having to be online and hoping the company knows how to run their end of the network.

[BooneoftheWasteland]

frank lee you are my f$%^ing hero. No sarcasm, well said.

[frank lee]

Thank you for your kind opinion of my opinions.

 

I'll amplify on what I know, Apart from being absurdly well traveled in the course of my work (looking like S.Africa next) I not only rarely move in the Marriott/Hilton tourist zone, but I am intimate enough with the workings of London's famous street-markets to understand what I'm seeing in more 'interesting' places. In London's Brick Lane or Portabello Rd up until a couple of years ago it was possible to buy any game, any movie or any music, pirated! Recently the 'UK Trading Standards Office' with assistance from the Police service has all but stamped this out.

 

Now as far as Digital Rights is concerned, this is a good thing. Also as the greater part of the movies being sold were originating in London's Triad gangs who also move much of the capitol's heroin etc. But it is important to understand the local authorities receive very little 'pressure' from the studios and film distributors. And what that pressure amounts to, is little more than moaning. So the motivation to pay their employees double time to stomp round a Sunday morning market with policemen examining the 800 stalls of crap in Wembly market must come from elsewhere, no? Well it's pretty simple, politics, the street markets were anarchic, barely controlled, free for all's and modern political thought wants control of EVERYTHING! So the the DRM issue has given all sorts of petty local authority wannabe politicians the excuse to wade in and mess with informal institutions, such as the famous street markets of old London town (most of which are considerably older than the United States!)

 

In short the great 'Piracy problem' is being used as an excuse to mess with people's rights (mostly the right to buy cheap crap that isn't worth the 50pence they paid, but hey!)

 

Now take that street market to the sub-continent and it makes Portabello Rd look as regulated as Marks&Spencer's or Macy's. Whats more with their own film industry (that they are failing to protect) they don't give a rats rectum for Hollywood... "Business is good dōsta, business is good"

 

So here in the 'western world' DRM and the 'Piracy problem' are being mostly used to erode privacy's or erode consumer rights, even the 'idea' of consumer rights is under attack. And that is one of the more pernicious memes of modern political thought.

 

So what we are seeing with Steam is in fact a base 'state change' for the internet. Someone, somewhere has decided that the internet should not continue to grow like an anarchic street market. They have decided that you or we are too stupid to look after our own interests. That we cannot be trusted not to buy crap, not have our digital pockets picked and that we shouldn't be allowed out without a keeper. Because monster multinationals like MGM and Sony Media are afraid of the Dev Patel's and Del boy Trotters we have to be as well!

Edited December 20, 2010 by frank lee

[minngarm]

I really think your over analyzing this. Its simply the best way for a company to market digital products for mass effect rather then risk theft, product damage, or supplying to a market region that fails to meet expected sells.

[frank lee]

I really think your over analyzing this. Its simply the best way for a company to market digital products for mass effect rather then risk theft, product damage, or supplying to a market region that fails to meet expected sells.

 

Lol, Quite possibly yes :blush: But hey, paranoids have enemies too.

[secksegai]

I really think your over analyzing this. Its simply the best way for a company to market digital products for mass effect rather then risk theft, product damage, or supplying to a market region that fails to meet expected sells.

 

I'd have to disagree with this - I'd say the basic secure-rom and other disc based lockdowns prevented as much "theft" considering the nature of the Internet today. Considering how its not surprising that someone can pirate the game and yet post here for help in getting archive invalidated to work.... the difficulties should be reversed (ie person knows how to edit ini files but doesn't know how to get pirated content).

[wardminator]

Frank Lee is quite right about the piracy issue. There are places in the world where you can't buy a legitimate retail copy of a computer game or movie, but you can buy pirated copies of just about anything. It sounds to me that I have not been to as many places as what Frank Lee has (though I would love to peruse the markets in London), I have been to several different parts of the world. I have seen markets where shops are set up that specialize in selling movies and video games... all of them pirated. If there is something in particular you are looking for but they don't have it, just tell the shop proprietor and he will "find" it for you. Meaning, he will get his hands on a legitimate copy and have his hacking expert hack a copy for you, in addition to a few copies for his shop's shelves also.

 

It is no secret that the movie industry is livid over the Department of Defenses policy to allow soldiers to patronize local markets that sell pirated movies. Those same shops also sell pirated video games as well. I know that having personally been to such shops on numerous occasions. In fact, I also happen to know that it is DoD Customs policy to allow soldiers and contractors returning to the states from Iraq to bring back a limited number of pirated material to the United States. I know that having gone through the Customs process and received the briefing on what is allowed and what is not allowed on numerous occasions. The decision to allow such a thing is an economic one on behalf of the host nation, in this case, the host nation being Iraq. Pirating digital media for them is a common business practice. The movie industry can get up in arms all they want to, but it is going to do little good. The State Department's influence in that area of the world is only slightly better than that of the movie industry. What would they have the military do? Sack the shops that deal in pirated media? I can hear the cries of "foul" from the international human rights community just thinking about it.

 

The fact is, piracy is a straw man in this discussion. Piracy is indeed rampant in the world, but not in the areas where the producers of digital media have the most influence. They do what they do in those places not to protect their intellectual property so much as it is simply because they can do it and we all sit back and allow them to get away with it. There is something inherently wrong when I purchase something (i.e. Windows OS) on CD and am only allowed 5 installs with that particular disk. When I buy a car, I am not limited by the amount of miles I drive it, but I am if I lease it. So, in that sense, I am not buying anything from Microsoft, but rather, I am leasing it from them. In the case of digital rights, the consumer is the one that is currently getting the shaft, not the producers, I can assure you.

 

Now, don't get me wrong. I am not knocking the producers of digital media. Indeed, they do have a copyright on that media after all, the same as any other innovator or creator. The problem that the digital media industry is having at the moment is how best to market that media. If anything, marketing digital media over the internet does nothing to inhibit the infringement of digital rights. In reality, it only exacerbates it. When it is on the net, it can be accessed from anywhere in the world and all the pirates need is one legitimate copy in order to pirate it. Codes can be cracked and those that specialize in pirating media and software are experts at doing just that. Personally, I would be surprised if there weren't already hundreds of thousands of pirated copies of Fallout New Vegas floating about in the world.

[antonkr]

Never had a single problem with steam. (except the one time where I was just being an idiot)

[DarkZerker]

Steam: It should only be for online games. Now tell me, would you go through countless bugs JUST to get 4 achievements? What's the point of Steam other than annoying the crap out of you in a single player game? If it were a multiplayer game, I would be all for it since it's like a gift from the Gods to PC gamers.

 

I'd personally rather buy the game, install it, save the disk, play the game, install patches according to the feedback from the public, and keep playing or uninstall. All single player games should be like that. Especially ones with mods as it makes it a bigger pain to install those mods.