Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

[WightMage]

Found something: Remember someone mentioned that Chesko's fishing mod suddenly disappeared from the Steam Workshop? Here's a thread discussing it:

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730313333429/

 

Here is an image of Fore, creator of FNIS, giving his thoughts on the animations used in the mod:

 

http://i.imgur.com/DItmsFn.jpg

 

As before, I'm just relaying this information for the knowledge of all, and do not necessarily hold the opinions therein. If anyone can confirm that the imgur image is legit, let me know.

[marthgun]

In response to post #24578789. #24579599, #24579684, #24579689, #24579699 are all replies on the same post.

donta1979 wrote:

marthgun wrote: they should just add advertisements to the downloads of mods like youtube. some can join in others can refuse.

This costs nexus only what it would take to implement it, everyone is happy except people that don't know how adblock works.

have a clickable advert to give them more money. let them shill for shekels (the current rules still apply though, no update stuff etc)

Natterforme wrote: Im pretty sure that Valve and bethesda have signed some sort of exclusivity agreement to prevent site like the Nexus from offering a better deal.

-Natterforme

movomo wrote: Modding is in essense more of a community effort that has built on what came before them, than what some modders imagine.

Speaking of the "frankenstein" modding tools as you say, who made them? Where's their cut if the end-modder starts to charge their mod? Who educated them to mod, whose knowledge and tools enabled them to mod, where's their cut? All the mod managers, mod tools, and great many more indirectly vital tools. Who helped the bug fixing, who helped the newbies on the forum, where's their cut?

All of this was fair when all of it was free and none of them had their cut. Now it isn't. Do modders deserve money for "their" mod? Certainly, to an extent, but not entirely. Is it only a form of donation... as a whole, no modding comnunity has ever had strong objection to this donation thing for modders; that option has always been there. As long as it is not a disguised paywall (I do not necessarily mean chesko is making paywall), donation always has been accepted.

Anyways, I hope they'd not be using the student-licensed max.

Nichoice wrote: Adding advertisements similar to Youtube is actually a brilliant idea, it allows modders to have monetary gain for the work and effort for which they have put in and does not create any form of consumer vendor relationship which would otherwise impose responsibilities for the modder!

and what about the nifskope team? without them getting custom assets into the game would be almost impossible without the injector that doesn't work nearly as well. They spent countless hours slaving away for free and people can go sell their armor mods for money.

disgusting.

[ValtielCurse]

In response to post #24579484. #24579559, #24579659, #24579729, #24579749, #24579769 are all replies on the same post.

Nichoice wrote:

akkalat85 wrote: wow...

Nichoice wrote: => http://i.imgur.com/DItmsFn.jpg

OP has since been banned from Steam, and this was 6mins ago

Brasscatcher wrote: Holy s#*!. This is getting entirely out of hand. and it's freakin' DAY ONE!

I don't know whether I should grab popcorn and settle in to watch the fireworks(I suffer from acute schadenfreude), or go cry in the corner.

akkalat85 wrote: I wonder why Linear was banned though? The claim seems legit as fore openly said chesko didn't ask permission... something strange going on.

Jsmorris14 wrote: Just proof that this is what it will be like if this continues. I saved the picture

Wow indeed. Fore my man!

[WightMage]

In response to post #24578554. #24578854, #24579349, #24579589, #24579674 are all replies on the same post.

Lillysdad2009 wrote:

WightMage wrote: Here here!

Lillysdad2009 wrote: I know if I had the money to donate I absolutely would. But for me personally at this point. Gaming isn't my first priority, I have a family to think of as many of the mod authors do. This is not exactly a hobby ya know this stuff takes real time. In today's world time is money, bruthas (and SISTAS) gotta eat. People keep mentioning Skywind and Beyond Skyrim I would honestly be disapointed if they finish...... Which I am starting to have my doubts about btw, but that's another forum all together. I would be extremely disappointed if they didn't get the monetary funds to compensate them for all the work that that is going to take to finish. Donations are just not a sure thing.

Nichoice wrote: => https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730313333429/

When I posted this 6 mins ago OP wasn't banned, and now he is.

I have no problem with modders getting paid for their work, because they should be! But being paid comes with responsibilities which no body seems to want to uphold.

AineoftheSidhe wrote: Mods should be donationware. Corporations can't send DMCA's and/or Cease and Desist letters to someone who happens to make mods and who also happens to accept charity from "benevolent onlookers." (:D)

I don't have much money. And I feel that having mods behind a paywall will encourage piracy. Which is ironic because:

"We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem," - Gabe Newell 2011

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114391-Valves-Gabe-Newell-Says-Piracy-Is-a-Service-Problem

And this is just the start of the problem.

Did Valve/Bethesda even think about the implications or issues? If they have then I don't know what to think about them anymore?

But I think they didn't.

Maybe they just dun goofed?

Or maybe they just rushed this out the door without proper preparation. Maybe we'll find out in the coming days.

[AKcelsior]

In response to post #24579484. #24579559, #24579659, #24579729, #24579749, #24579769, #24579849 are all replies on the same post.

Nichoice wrote:

akkalat85 wrote: wow...

Nichoice wrote: => http://i.imgur.com/DItmsFn.jpg

OP has since been banned from Steam, and this was 6mins ago

Brasscatcher wrote: Holy s#*!. This is getting entirely out of hand. and it's freakin' DAY ONE!

I don't know whether I should grab popcorn and settle in to watch the fireworks(I suffer from acute schadenfreude), or go cry in the corner.

akkalat85 wrote: I wonder why Linear was banned though? The claim seems legit as fore openly said chesko didn't ask permission... something strange going on.

Jsmorris14 wrote: Just proof that this is what it will be like if this continues. I saved the picture

ValtielCurse wrote: Wow indeed. Fore my man!

It seems, at least on the surface, that Valve doesn't want the negative press from being caught letting users upload and profit off of other's free content. It's sad they would ban a user with a legit claim... This reeks of manipulation by Valve.

[BeastRU]

In response to post #24571614. #24572234, #24572374, #24572469, #24572589, #24572669, #24572829, #24572854, #24572864, #24572984, #24572994, #24573004, #24573029, #24573229, #24573324, #24573399, #24573439, #24573784, #24573939, #24574029, #24574129, #24574984, #24575109, #24575614, #24575844, #24575849, #24575939, #24576229 are all replies on the same post.

KaiserDeathIV wrote:

speash wrote: Signed

ShwayNorris wrote: Signed

Kerros wrote: Signed, thank you for the link

zzjay wrote: Will do tomorrow..cant open from phone :(.

I doubt it'll help...we can simply not buy em.

groupthinker1984 wrote: Way too soon for this kind of knee jerk reaction.

I agree that this COULD be absolutely disastrous. Or it could be wonderful. Or somehow both at the same time.

MrSpanky wrote: signed. passed the 7500 mark

Rigmor wrote: Signed

Ultrametal wrote: This means nothing to Valve, they just gonna discourage people from making mods, since anyone can steal the idea and sell it with a different color.

softail4life wrote: Signed...thank you

Mindprobe24 wrote: Signed (8305)

shaithlis wrote: Signed

jradik wrote: signed

popcorn71 wrote: Sites not loading. Too many people trying to sing?

BFNord wrote: and signed. and forwarded the link to a few others. f*#@ that noise.

StackEmHigh wrote: Signed.

akkalat85 wrote: Signing...

popcorn71 wrote: Signed.

danjal wrote: Frankly, I'm not deadset against paid mods.

What I would demand is that Valve gets its ass in gear and does some quality control/assurance...
Not to mention, if I'd pay for a mod, then I would want the mod to work - which means that Steam Workshop needs to start providing adequate tools and support there aswell.

Untill such a time as that starts happening - they do not deserve this financial split.

Mindprobe24 wrote: 8,741 supporters, comme on people! SPREAD!

bloodwolf13 wrote: Signed and deleted all mods from the Valve, I was going to buy Farcry4 from there but now No way are they going to get another Dime from me.

derek6688 wrote: Signed. (9,584)

deadblood01 wrote: signed and shared

jradik wrote: 10,000 signature milestone

badiyee85 wrote: signed

guiaugu132 wrote: 10,232

starfis wrote: Signed, 10,284.

Durian10 wrote: Signed

Signed.

[marthgun]

In response to post #24578069. #24578114, #24578164, #24578219, #24578734, #24578914, #24579054, #24579509 are all replies on the same post.

WightMage wrote:

Salzber wrote: Doesn't change him agreeing and joining to begin with.

Arendella wrote: He may of had a choice and his own choice to put his mod there and such, but there is no excuse for what he did. I'm sorry but I won't use his mods anymore and I will tell others to not support it as well. In terms of business, all it takes is bad reputation to outweigh the good ones.

WightMage wrote: I'm not saying that I support his decision, just been spending the past hour getting scoops and posting them here for others to read.

In other news, there's a rumor that some of the mod authors have taken to changing their Steam handles due to the sheer amount of hate they're getting.

Impulseman45 wrote: NDA my ass. There was a very simple answer to Valve and Bethesda on this and that was "NO". Absolutely not. But they chose to drink the cool aid as I like to say. They got suckered in. What did Valve do and or say to them about the other modding avenues and do they know something that they still can tell us. Like a possible total lock out of all non sanctioned Workshop mods is coming and this was the time to jump on or get out of the way. Something more is going here and these guys are not telling the whole truth about it. They know more and they cant say anything for fear of what? Getting locked out of the modding scene completely? Makes you wonder what the heck is really going on here.

Hoamaii wrote: Like I said 100 posts away, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the "agreement" offered to modders to monetize their work would be to make it a "Workshop exclusive".

Brasscatcher wrote: You've got the right of it, Hoamaii. (I owe you some screenshots, btw. CLEARSKY FRICKEN ROCKS. I wouldn't have been so stoked about trying my own hand at modding skyrim if it wasn't for sexy player homes like yours.)

I'm troubled by the POTENTIAL consequences, fiscal, legal, and political this could have on the ecosystem of modding.

Hoamaii wrote: My main concern is this thing is a lure for modders. There's no way ANY industry in the world would ever ever offer anything out of pure generosity.

I should know: I'm a writer, a screenwriter and I even worked in the music industry at some point. Unless they're stars, authors never get anything but crumbs - 10% on the paper, sure, but has any author been shown the real sales figures?.. If I really wanna make a living, I do advertising, all the rest is just a wreckless adventure for fun.

So the real question is what is this lure hiding that we fail to see?

the lure?

Worst case scenario they want to shut down the nexus and sites like it through dmca or equivelant.

think about it, if a modder signs a contract giving beth and valve copywrite control over their mods for money, then what is stopping them from coming to the nexus to claim similar mods break those copywrite protections? And steam is allowing ANY mod to be sold. So what about tweaks or enb presets? This could be a nightmare

[WightMage]

In response to post #24578069. #24578114, #24578164, #24578219, #24578734, #24578914, #24579054, #24579509, #24579899 are all replies on the same post.

WightMage wrote:

Salzber wrote: Doesn't change him agreeing and joining to begin with.

Arendella wrote: He may of had a choice and his own choice to put his mod there and such, but there is no excuse for what he did. I'm sorry but I won't use his mods anymore and I will tell others to not support it as well. In terms of business, all it takes is bad reputation to outweigh the good ones.

WightMage wrote: I'm not saying that I support his decision, just been spending the past hour getting scoops and posting them here for others to read.

In other news, there's a rumor that some of the mod authors have taken to changing their Steam handles due to the sheer amount of hate they're getting.

Impulseman45 wrote: NDA my ass. There was a very simple answer to Valve and Bethesda on this and that was "NO". Absolutely not. But they chose to drink the cool aid as I like to say. They got suckered in. What did Valve do and or say to them about the other modding avenues and do they know something that they still can tell us. Like a possible total lock out of all non sanctioned Workshop mods is coming and this was the time to jump on or get out of the way. Something more is going here and these guys are not telling the whole truth about it. They know more and they cant say anything for fear of what? Getting locked out of the modding scene completely? Makes you wonder what the heck is really going on here.

Hoamaii wrote: Like I said 100 posts away, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the "agreement" offered to modders to monetize their work would be to make it a "Workshop exclusive".

Brasscatcher wrote: You've got the right of it, Hoamaii. (I owe you some screenshots, btw. CLEARSKY FRICKEN ROCKS. I wouldn't have been so stoked about trying my own hand at modding skyrim if it wasn't for sexy player homes like yours.)

I'm troubled by the POTENTIAL consequences, fiscal, legal, and political this could have on the ecosystem of modding.

Hoamaii wrote: My main concern is this thing is a lure for modders. There's no way ANY industry in the world would ever ever offer anything out of pure generosity.

I should know: I'm a writer, a screenwriter and I even worked in the music industry at some point. Unless they're stars, authors never get anything but crumbs - 10% on the paper, sure, but has any author been shown the real sales figures?.. If I really wanna make a living, I do advertising, all the rest is just a wreckless adventure for fun.

So the real question is what is this lure hiding that we fail to see?

marthgun wrote: the lure?

Worst case scenario they want to shut down the nexus and sites like it through dmca or equivelant.

think about it, if a modder signs a contract giving beth and valve copywrite control over their mods for money, then what is stopping them from coming to the nexus to claim similar mods break those copywrite protections? And steam is allowing ANY mod to be sold. So what about tweaks or enb presets? This could be a nightmare

...sounds like a good plot to a future motion picture.

[zanity]

In response to post #24578554. #24578854, #24579349, #24579589, #24579674, #24579854 are all replies on the same post.

Lillysdad2009 wrote:

WightMage wrote: Here here!

Lillysdad2009 wrote: I know if I had the money to donate I absolutely would. But for me personally at this point. Gaming isn't my first priority, I have a family to think of as many of the mod authors do. This is not exactly a hobby ya know this stuff takes real time. In today's world time is money, bruthas (and SISTAS) gotta eat. People keep mentioning Skywind and Beyond Skyrim I would honestly be disapointed if they finish...... Which I am starting to have my doubts about btw, but that's another forum all together. I would be extremely disappointed if they didn't get the monetary funds to compensate them for all the work that that is going to take to finish. Donations are just not a sure thing.

Nichoice wrote: => https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730313333429/

When I posted this 6 mins ago OP wasn't banned, and now he is.

I have no problem with modders getting paid for their work, because they should be! But being paid comes with responsibilities which no body seems to want to uphold.

AineoftheSidhe wrote: Mods should be donationware. Corporations can't send DMCA's and/or Cease and Desist letters to someone who happens to make mods and who also happens to accept charity from "benevolent onlookers." (:D)

I don't have much money. And I feel that having mods behind a paywall will encourage piracy. Which is ironic because:

"We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem," - Gabe Newell 2011

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114391-Valves-Gabe-Newell-Says-Piracy-Is-a-Service-Problem

And this is just the start of the problem.

Did Valve/Bethesda even think about the implications or issues? If they have then I don't know what to think about them anymore?

But I think they didn't.

WightMage wrote: Maybe they just dun goofed?

Or maybe they just rushed this out the door without proper preparation. Maybe we'll find out in the coming days.

The user input that helped him add features or find bugs is also INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. He has NOT paid for these services, even though the Law requires that he does so, or informs people BEFORE they offer their input that he may exploit it for commercial gain without offering payment.

Here's how it works in the grown-up world of legally correct software houses. The people who find bugs are PAID employees. The people who make design effecting suggestions are PAIN employees. If the software house runs a forum where user input may be used to improve the product, the software house if legally obliged to state this in the terms and conditions of the forum.

Almost every significant mod on Nexus that has had more than one version has benefited from the unpaid input of those who used it and commented- and this was NOT a legal problem when future versions of the mod were to be offered for free.

I am NOT stating an opinion- I am stating a fact of LAW.

If Chesko wanted to make money from his modding, he should have created brand-new, clean-room mods that were 100% of his invention, or ownership if he started paying others for their assistance.

Too many here think that modders are somehow beyond the law, or operate in a universe where the law doesn't apply to them, simply because of the tradition of modding. Well guess what, people- when you chose to go 'commercial' , the rules change whether you like that or not.

And as with most things in life- the more complex and 'interesting' the mod, the more difficult the legal problems become.

[dragongrunt]

I think the best way community can support mods is respect and donations. Respect in the way of NEVER stealing resources and ideas from others, and donations (for those who agree to receive them, add a button) for mods to keep doing what the know to do best.

 

What Valve has got into here is a new low for them. In a way, it's like they forked Linux and start monetizing on the community's effort. It wasn't enough with all those Dota 2 aesthetics and cards... uff, I don't want to vent here.

 

In short, this is good idea gone horribly wrong. And yeah, who can withstand the will of the almighty troll Gaben? Hope he doesn't see Nexus as a legal threat next, or he'd be following MAFIAA's steps.

 

Peace to the Skyrim community, and to the modders who made this game live this long.