Raycheetah Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I'm an old-school believer in free-market capitalism *ducks thrown eggs and rotten veggies.* I have always held that if someone can earn money for their creative efforts, then they ought to be rewarded. Monetary incentivization of modding absolutely changes the playing field, and there will definitely be negative consequences, with which the community will learn to cope. Please don't associate "money" with "evil;" if a modder chooses to take the opportunity to monetize, that's their choice. After all, if you're going to see The Avengers: Age of Ultron, this weekend, there was plenty of profit orientation in making that film. True, up until now, modders have made mods strictly for love of creativity, but I'd be willing to bet they'll still love what they do, even while it puts a little cash in their pockets for what can often be MANY hours of hard work. Valve's approach was a tad hamfisted, but I am sure there were reasons beyond mere greed for the structure of their compensation model. Bethesda certainly had a say in how much THEY expected to get, and that's their right, too. For my part, I would much rather make a donation directly to a mod author here on the Nexus, than involve the admins in what would otherwise be more sticky mess (including, reportedly, tax reporting, in Valve's case) than they need added to their work. I haven't made any such donations, yet, though I will; I just got around to buying my Lifetime Premium membership, here (motivated by current events to do something I'd meant to do ages ago, sorry). Many modders here have already made their stand, rejecting the paid mod system on the Steam Workshop. Yet, one cannot help but think that, being human, those authors who have taken a strong, ethical stance against it, might also feel a little like chumps, when other folks eagerly embrace the model and reap such benefits as they may. Of course, people again being people, those who have paid for those mods may not have been all that generous, either. Here is where our opportunity lies, on the Nexus. Revisit the pages for your favorite mods. Drop a buck or two in the hat for the folks who have added so much to all our games. Not all at once, of course, but when you see the effects of their work in your game, let them know that they're appreciated, and that their commitment to those of us who use the Nexus as our main source of mods will not go unrewarded. This isn't the end of the world, just a wake-up call. Let's show Valve that theirs is not the only model in the new modding economy. Competition is good. It fosters creativity and quality, and benefits the consumer, providing choice. Let's choose to cut out the middle-man. =^[.]^= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowmane01 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote phenderix wrote: Quote BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date. Quote sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and I think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.To pay your rent with. Quote Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :) Quote phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved. $500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod. $1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world) If goals met, new goals will be added. Quote BluemaxDR wrote: Quote Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)If goals met, new goals will be added.Like kickstarter....smart. Quote Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well. Quote Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles."Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click? Quote OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this.Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butthead123 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 In the end it's valves greed and position that prompted this they take 75% of profits for doing nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinkaninka Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 In response to post #24615969. #24616779 is also a reply to the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Orgaya wrote: Quote Turnstyles wrote: I see the outrage as deserved, but misdirected at the mod makers. A calm callout is better than a sword to the gut, and Valve needs this more than anything. This was a terrible idea, and the people who enacted it don't have the knowledge or foresight to enact this properly. I'm extremely sad the xilverbullet partook in the paid mod, and I adore his mods. He doesn't deserve the hate he's getting at all, but he should be questioned and listened to on why he put MM up as paid. This is clusterf*#@ and a half. No one will win if this system stays around. Everything has changed, and it is for the worse.While this is mostly Valve and Bethesda's fault, some mod authors actually ARE to blame too... Like the ones that steal mods... Or that person that uploaded a file called "nothing" that, guess what, is actually nothing. Wouldn't be surprised if I say $5 for "nothing" on the most popular section of the steam workshop. On the other hand, GOOD mod authors such as Trainwiz, Elianora, Insanity, and Antioch08 (Examples, don't take offense if I didn't name some people) are the kind of people who should be allowed to charge... Not people like xXx_Imma_cheeky_scamlorde_xXx who charges $5 for a TROJAN "horse" mod (As in the virus, cause... You know... Scams.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxx0312 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I like how open you are in regards to the issue at hand. I agree that everyone should know about all of this. Thank you very much for taking the time to summarize here. I hope that this does not change modding in the future. Unfortunately i think the implications of paid modding are far more complex than we know as of now. Thanks again for the summary and hard work. Hope you get to enjoy some sort fo holiday soon, you earn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenderix Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617394 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote phenderix wrote: Quote BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date. Quote sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and I think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.To pay your rent with. Quote Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :) Quote phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved. $500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod. $1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world) If goals met, new goals will be added. Quote BluemaxDR wrote: Quote Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)If goals met, new goals will be added.Like kickstarter....smart. Quote Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well. Quote Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles."Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click? Quote OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this. Quote Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?. Quote Silki08 wrote: They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals.Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)MCM is getting a portion of pay. My mod barely uses it but it will receive a portion of proceeds nevertheless. Edited April 25, 2015 by phenderix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silki08 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote phenderix wrote: Quote BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date. Quote sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and I think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.To pay your rent with. Quote Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :) Quote phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved. $500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod. $1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world) If goals met, new goals will be added. Quote BluemaxDR wrote: Quote Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)If goals met, new goals will be added.Like kickstarter....smart. Quote Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well. Quote Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles."Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click? Quote OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this. Quote Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?. Quote phenderix wrote: Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)MCM is getting a portion of pay.They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehPikachuHat Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 In response to post #24615439. #24615589 is also a reply to the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Ventry wrote: Quote CaptainGame wrote: It was inevitable. The sad part is, I'm still not going to get it - not even for moral reasons, but because I see nothing in the paid mods section I care about enough to download.Soon enough there will be a "Booty", like with Sims mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butthead123 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote phenderix wrote: Quote BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date. Quote sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and I think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.To pay your rent with. Quote Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :) Quote phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved. $500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod. $1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world) If goals met, new goals will be added. Quote BluemaxDR wrote: Quote Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)If goals met, new goals will be added.Like kickstarter....smart. Quote Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well. Quote Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles."Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click? Quote OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this. Quote Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?. Quote phenderix wrote: Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)MCM is getting a portion of pay. My mod barely uses it but it will receive a portion of proceeds nevertheless. Quote Silki08 wrote: They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals.Good luck with that though i wish it felt like my money was going to you rather than valve :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t1amat Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 In response to post #24615349. #24615514, #24615539, #24615594, #24615744, #24615844, #24616559, #24616664, #24616684, #24616839, #24616949, #24617094 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Axeface wrote: Quote Ventry wrote: Your in the minority.You do realize this right? Quote CaptainGame wrote: Not the idea of people asking for money for pay that bugs me - I can easily ignore the "dollar for new sword" nonsense, and there will always be people willing to mod for love of the game... but from what I hear, A. The money split is 30% to Valve, 45% to Bethesda, and 25% to the modder, B. Modder doesn't get a thing until they make $100 (AFTER the pay split) and C. Pay is exclusively in Steam wallet credit. This is blatantly and obviously an attempt to lure people into making DLC on the cheap. Quote thestoryteller01 wrote: Most people on Steam are calling Valve greedy for giving the modders only 25%, only a few spoiled brats are actually blaming the modders for anything.But of course many say that if every contacted modder had flatly refused to participate in the trial run, we wouldn't have this mess. Quote dechurch wrote: "We will see more quality, better support, and better updates from modders."You keep telling yourself that."very, VERY few people are going to get rich doing this. Very few. Think about this before calling people greedy."Certainly not any modders. Quote sunshinenbrick wrote: "very, VERY few people are going to get rich doing this. Very few. Think about this before calling people greedy."While I agree with what you are saying, is it not the above that is part of the problem. As a lot of people will be doing a lot of work but not sharing in most of the financial benefits, the benefits that keep a roof over our heads. The point being that it is not only modding that things like this are happening.Full respect to you, I am just trying to bring up a point because I think this discussion really matters if we (as the consumer/content provider) are going to help Valve avoid exploiting its customers. Quote Axeface wrote: @Ventry. That doesn't mean I am wrong. Some would argue that it actually means I am right, because I am able to think clearly, and for myself - not just follow the screaming and shouting crowd. Quote Jupezus wrote: I'm just annoyed by this, Valve is advertising this as " Support the modders",while they take 75% of the cut. That's just plain disgusting. Quote Ramon1 wrote: Here, aim all those passive aggressive insults towards Chesko that just now realized what's it like to deal with megacorporations like Valve or Bethesda: I thought discussion was moderated in this place??? Doesn't matter, too few people are remotely attempting at defending this and failing hard at it. Quote chinkaninka wrote: It's probably Valve's way of trying to get more people to use the steam workshop... But who would actually be stupid enough to spend money on a MOD. Who's actually looked at the paid mods page? Totally not worth it. I've made a couple of crappy mods myself, and they are NOT worth paying for... The "mods" I made are the kind of thing painted all over the steam workshop. I would just download something else, preferably something worth downloading, for FREE. Oh, and to the people who agree with this, are you trolling or did you just make your claim without sufficient evidence to back it up? Quote Axeface wrote: @Jepezus. Totally agree, I said that at the end of my post. 75% to the corps is wrong, but this applies to basically ANYTHING creative in the world.... the creator getting screwed by the publisher. While I understand that beth made the game, and steam is selling it. The modders are being treated like the 'middle man', as if their content has little value and they are simply adding value to the main product, when they are actually content creators. They need to have a bigger cut. 50% would be acceptable. But, corporations are evil and will try to bleed everyone dry (fact). Quote Aquilathestne wrote: Instead of forcing eveyrone from some guy with kids to feed and a 13 yearold without a job, perhaps this should simply be a wake up call to show more respect to our mod authors and donate? the donation system would be more effective if we all considered: would i rather be forced to pay a small amount, or give a big donation to mod authors i love? phendrix says he only has had 1 donation. lets flood our favorite authors with donations on nexus. Heck, even the ones who went to steam but still have mods here. show the appreciation for free content.http://www.pcgamer.com/fake-protest-mods-hit-the-steam-workshop/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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