Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

kazamir · April 25, 2015

for what its worth the improvement of mods will work 2 ways, the amazing honest modders will spend more time maybe creating even better work, but on downside you will have people releasing low quality work trying to make a quick buck, also the idea that you can just download the mod get the files and get a refund and keeping the mod anyway sucks, good luck to all who choose to go the pay route Edited April 25, 2015 by kazamir

phenderix · April 25, 2015

In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089 are all replies on the same post.

Reveal hidden contents

Quote
phenderix wrote:

Quote
BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.

As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date.

Quote
sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and apart from questioning whether you feel it totally justified to advertise Steam Workshop on the Nexus, I would like to ask if you think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.

To pay rent with.

Quote
Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?

Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :)

Quote
phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Quote
BluemaxDR wrote:

Quote
Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Like kickstarter....smart.

Quote
Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well.

Quote
Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles.
"Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click?

Quote
OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).

I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this.

Quote
Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?.

Quote
phenderix wrote: Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)

MCM is getting a portion of pay. My mod barely uses it but it will receive a portion of proceeds nevertheless.

Quote
Silki08 wrote: They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals.

Quote
butthead123 wrote: Good luck with that though i wish it felt like my money was going to you rather than valve :(

Quote
Maruun wrote: I cant be angry about it i just hope it wont bite you later...

Quote
Yerevans wrote: In the college, regarding IT in business, we have discussions regarding strategies companies use to transfer costs and work to customers to profit more.
This is such strategy in place, Bethesda does not care anymore about Skyrim, they want free and easy money, as does Valve.

This will stimulate companies to release more broken and half finished games, not that the community will not only fix it to them for free, as they will actually profit more for people doing it.

That is not modding anymore, that is 3rd party DLC, outsourcing activities, reducing exposure and liability.

I would love to hear from you if you are actually getting any reasonable amount of money, most likely you will, but philosophically I despite this, as whenever people compete by finite resources things go ugly.

But I guess this is the real ugly truth of this era, where god was killed by reason and reason replaced by money, selfishness will always prevail upon altruism.
"Each to his own and God against all" this is the nature of the world and humanity.

Quote
Darkieus wrote: ...And unendorsed and uninstalled.

I don't like Workshop, and I don't like the idea of being forced to pay for a 'Mod' (which by this point is no longer a mod, but a DLC item).

I hope this system doesn't pass onto Fallout 4. Sorry.

Quote
Vault Tec wrote: I wish you luck in your endeavors as I'm one of the many refusing to 'buy' mods due to many reasons but I'd also like to mention, VALVe and Bethesda are getting 75% of that $3 you intend to charge. You aren't going to be earning much from your endeavors especially since it was discovered yesterday that a person can buy your mod, copy the files out of the Data folder and ask for a refund. They've got the mod for free at this point and you're out of pocket.

Quote
anonownsyou wrote: As I said, everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their effort. You guys deserve 75% of your beef jerky though, not no sad 25%

Best of luck in this, I admire your optimism regarding this pushing towards quality rather than quantity, and I surely hope you're right.

Quote
TheEyelessWanderer wrote: I'm going to take care to specifically not purchase, download, endorse, or promote anything you create.

(I suggest everyone else takes the same course of action. This individual followed the gold scent. We all know where it inevitably leads.)

Quote
Ghatto wrote: This is what I was afraid of happening. It not like I don't think modders deserve any compensation, or that they can't value their work financially. It's the transformation, the necessary consideration of it that every modder will now have and how that makes them a different kind of artist and a completely different member of a now fractured mod community. Before now I'd never heard nor thought of a modder 'in it for the money', that any of their mods were being advertised like product; it was always just something they made that would improve the game and the community was reciprocative in those efforts. Now those same modders will filling their own artistic visions of their mods with thought about how much they deserve for it, something they never had to, or wanted to do while they were lovingly making mods for fun/enjoyment/challenge etc.

Everything was fine until now. Mods that were made, were made. Mods that weren't made, weren't. The community doesn't 'need' to give back, because they were never taking - modders were only ever giving, in a community of only ever giving.

Quote
WileCoyote68 wrote: Hi phenderix,
My native language/mother tongue is german and because of this fact my choosen game language is german. You say you will release the new Version of your mod only via Steam Workshop and Paid Content. Now one simple question to you: Will your mod being available as a multi-lingual version on the Workshoip? If not, then why the hell should a german, italian, french.... customer pay for it? I can understand that you have putted a lot of work in your creations, but going behind the pay wall should inlcude that you provide the same service as Bethesda did when they released Skyrim and the DLC's. If this is not a legitimate concern for you, then everything you said about your decision is only a lie. Then you care only about the money and nothing more

Quote
UnitedStrafes wrote: Never paid for a mod never will, not in Skyrim and not in Fallout 4, When I start making mods which I plan to do for Fallout It won't be because I'm expecting some compensation. Steam is full of bad ideas lately and is turning from something that was very cool into video game Wal-Mart sad really.

It's nice you spent so much time making your mod and I hope you do well, but anyone needing to be compensated for modding leads to me not needing that mod........EVER.

Quote
Draugas wrote: I'm not going to say whether or not I agree, I wish you luck.

But.

I do think you do yourself a diservice by choosing to do this *now*.

This is new, people are in an uproar, Valvthesda is exploiting modders with the percentage (opinion).

Are the potential repercussions worth putting your mod up on day two of the storm?

Quote
Silki08 wrote: Hi, I'm essentially someone genuinely trying to understand the shift. Things may be rough right now and I hope that through some of my questions you can alleviate some issues about modders going through the payment option on Steam Workshop. I'll try to organize this as best I can for your benefit.

1. To make a hobby into a career is a dream many people have in the world. However, being paid such a paltry amount for something that is essentially your design and creation seems like you are being taken advantage of. Has there been any negotiations on the part of mod authors to get a better share of the profits?

[in my opinion, for modders to be paid for putting comprehensive, functional, and revolutionary mods is a good thing. Being paid for it with something that seems even more extreme than indentured servitude seems wrong.]

2. Do you think this will effect modding for future games? Many gamers would feel that essential mods may one day be behind a paywall. For example, the new elder scrolls or fallout games may have a weak UI system. This prompts the SkyUI team to develop a better UI for the game. However this new UI mod will be behind a paywall from day one. Perhaps there is a framework that allows for mods to work in a cohesive form but must be bought to make a multitude of mods to work together. Is this acceptable in your opinion?

3. Many mods are a combined effort with those who have a distinct passion for their creation. How would the distribution of income be handled should their be assets from another mod that is free located within a mod that has been monetized?

4. How much of a cut do you think creators of these mods should have? If 25% is acceptable skip this question.

5. Many people feel that they are not actually supporting the mod authors by only having 25% of the commission go to the authors themselves. If more people donated from the start, would you have opted in this program?

6. In light of question 5. How many people actually have donated to you over your modding career?

7. How many hours have you spent on modding? This includes time spent on support, compatibility, and communication with the community.

8. In your opinion, is Valve and Bethesda doing this for the benefit of the modding community or for themselves?

9. In your opinion, should an item mod be the same price as an expansive mod? For comparisons sake, an armor mod vs a quest mod that includes: Armor, weapons, characters, buildings, locations, etc.

10. Some may argue that modding is for the community. That a group of individuals come together to make something that people with a common interest can enjoy. Do you think by going through this route, this is still possible? For example disagreements between collaborators may now increase because of this monetization option.

11. Multilingual support is usually done without the original authors help. Will multilingual support for all incredibly popular mods completely cease?

Quote
phenderix wrote: I genuinely think that this is a very good thing for the modding community.

More people will put in more time to creating better mods for Skyrim. I would gladly pay $5-10 for more mods like Falskar or Alternate Start.

I recently got a job in NYC financial district and have no where near as much time as I used to have to mod. This makes it a more compelling case to mod even when I don't have much free time anymore.

I will be using the premium version as a sort of kickstarter type campaign to fund more features added to the mod. I will be adding new worldspace and many new spells and features if people support the mod.

My mod doesn't simply add one item or do something very simple. It adds over 300 new spells to the game along with perks and other scripted features. All bug-free as of latest version. This is something I think people should want to purchase.

I understand the points a lot of you are making. I think that once this all settles that it will be an overall good thing. The 25% thing is a little ridiculous but I bet that this will eventually increase over time. I have no problem with Bethesda getting at least 50% since they created the game and creation kit to allow me to mod.

Quote
phantompally76 wrote: I can only disagree, emphatically. But that's not going to change your mind.

I won't be downloading, installing, or endorsing your mods anymore.

And frankly, that goes for anyone else that buys into this horsecrap. No matter how much you want to make yourselves believe that you're helping the modding community.....you're effectively killing it, and I REFUSE to be complicit in this betrayal.

Quote
phenderix wrote: Some very strong words. Thanks for the unendorse :)

Quote
CommanderJuraks wrote: The game creators and the file site "hosters" by far should be getting the larger portion of the cut, they literally made the game and are hosting/sharing your file(s) for download without them doing 80% of the leg work to make the mod possible in the first place there wouldn't even be a mod.

I personally don't like the concept of paying for something that was originally intended to be free and a hobby. Should the community be more gratuitous towards mod authors, absolutely but it shouldn't drive them(mod authors) to the point of hiding their works behind a pay-wall of any sort. Because let's face it, most mods aren't worth the money. While most of the mods in the "Top 100" lists here on the nexus are worth 1 dollar to 8 dollars that is just a fraction of a percent of the mods on the skyrim nexus alone that worth that bit of money. I'd rather be prompted to donate as thanks than be forced to pay for a retexture of someone else's work. My main fear with these new developments(paying for mods) is that almost every tom, dick, and harry mod maker will go hide behind a pay-wall even when the mod isn't even worth paying for.

That all being said, I appreciate modders and what they do my solution to this situation works something like this. Youtube video authors receive payment for how many views their videos get within a given period of time. The more "subscribers" they have the more almost guaranteed views they have. Why not work something out like that with the nexus?
Where if you endorse or give kudos to a specific author you get a notification every time that author uploads/updates a file. Mod authors would be payed on how many views or downloads their mods get in a given period of time(ex: a month or two weeks). The behind the scenes of how the pay would come out of the Nexus' total revenue could be worked out similarily to, again, how youtube does it. MEANING: I'd rather see mod authors paid in similar fashion to how youtube channel/video authors are being payed.

While the nexus may not like losing a bit of it's total profit this is a viable alternative to letting mod authors hide behind pay-walls whether the mod is worth the price or not.

I hope it works out for the best of the entire community and doesn't create a union of lazy people screaming for a handout or larger commission.

Quote
phantompally76 wrote: Oh, you're more than welcome, sir. Good day.

@CommanderJuraks
I completely agree with a lot of the points you listed.
That is why only one of my mods is making this transition.
The other 7 are remaining Nexus exclusives and forever free. Edited April 25, 2015 by phenderix

kazamir · April 25, 2015

for what its worth the improvement of mods will work 2 ways, the amazing honest modders will spend more time maybe creating even better work, but on downside you will have people releasing low quality work trying to make a quick buck, also the idea that you can just download the mod get the files and get a refund and keeping the mod anyway sucks, good luck to all who choose to go the pay route

Azza123 · April 25, 2015

Mods are meant to be an expression of love for a game or series. Now Valve and Bethesda are gouging out the community for their own benefit. This 'paid mods' idea WILL NOT survive, because apart from all the free alternatives, people are already pirating Workshop-exlusive paid mods and uploading them for free elsewhere. My only fear is that it'll take the modding community down with it.

jonboy · April 25, 2015

In response to post #24617279. #24618539, #24618579, #24618659 are all replies on the same post.

Reveal hidden contents

This storm has moved me to consider the time I have spent enjoying modded Skyrim (and other Bethesda games, and even older Total War games) and how the modder's work has greatly increased my enjoyment, and even driven me to purchase these games in the first place. These modder's are definitely worthy of some gratitude (donations), which I will start doing over this weekend.

jet4571 · April 25, 2015

In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334 are all replies on the same post.

Reveal hidden contents

Quote
phenderix wrote:

Quote
BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.

As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date.

Quote
sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and apart from questioning whether you feel it totally justified to advertise Steam Workshop on the Nexus, I would like to ask if you think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.

To pay rent with.

Quote
Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?

Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :)

Quote
phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Quote
BluemaxDR wrote:

Quote
Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Like kickstarter....smart.

Quote
Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well.

Quote
Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles.
"Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click?

Quote
OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).

I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this.

Quote
Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?.

Quote
phenderix wrote: Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)

MCM is getting a portion of pay. My mod barely uses it but it will receive a portion of proceeds nevertheless.

Quote
Silki08 wrote: They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals.

Quote
butthead123 wrote: Good luck with that though i wish it felt like my money was going to you rather than valve :(

Quote
Maruun wrote: I cant be angry about it i just hope it wont bite you later...

Quote
Yerevans wrote: In the college, regarding IT in business, we have discussions regarding strategies companies use to transfer costs and work to customers to profit more.
This is such strategy in place, Bethesda does not care anymore about Skyrim, they want free and easy money, as does Valve.

This will stimulate companies to release more broken and half finished games, not that the community will not only fix it to them for free, as they will actually profit more for people doing it.

That is not modding anymore, that is 3rd party DLC, outsourcing activities, reducing exposure and liability.

I would love to hear from you if you are actually getting any reasonable amount of money, most likely you will, but philosophically I despite this, as whenever people compete by finite resources things go ugly.

But I guess this is the real ugly truth of this era, where god was killed by reason and reason replaced by money, selfishness will always prevail upon altruism.
"Each to his own and God against all" this is the nature of the world and humanity.

Quote
Darkieus wrote: ...And unendorsed and uninstalled.

I don't like Workshop, and I don't like the idea of being forced to pay for a 'Mod' (which by this point is no longer a mod, but a DLC item).

I hope this system doesn't pass onto Fallout 4. Sorry.

Quote
Vault Tec wrote: I wish you luck in your endeavors as I'm one of the many refusing to 'buy' mods due to many reasons but I'd also like to mention, VALVe and Bethesda are getting 75% of that $3 you intend to charge. You aren't going to be earning much from your endeavors especially since it was discovered yesterday that a person can buy your mod, copy the files out of the Data folder and ask for a refund. They've got the mod for free at this point and you're out of pocket.

Quote
anonownsyou wrote: As I said, everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their effort. You guys deserve 75% of your beef jerky though, not no sad 25%

Best of luck in this, I admire your optimism regarding this pushing towards quality rather than quantity, and I surely hope you're right.

Quote
TheEyelessWanderer wrote: I'm going to take care to specifically not purchase, download, endorse, or promote anything you create.

(I suggest everyone else takes the same course of action. This individual followed the gold scent. We all know where it inevitably leads.)

Quote
Ghatto wrote: This is what I was afraid of happening. It not like I don't think modders deserve any compensation, or that they can't value their work financially. It's the transformation, the necessary consideration of it that every modder will now have and how that makes them a different kind of artist and a completely different member of a now fractured mod community. Before now I'd never heard nor thought of a modder 'in it for the money', that any of their mods were being advertised like product; it was always just something they made that would improve the game and the community was reciprocative in those efforts. Now those same modders will filling their own artistic visions of their mods with thought about how much they deserve for it, something they never had to, or wanted to do while they were lovingly making mods for fun/enjoyment/challenge etc.

Everything was fine until now. Mods that were made, were made. Mods that weren't made, weren't. The community doesn't 'need' to give back, because they were never taking - modders were only ever giving, in a community of only ever giving.

Quote
WileCoyote68 wrote: Hi phenderix,
My native language/mother tongue is german and because of this fact my choosen game language is german. You say you will release the new Version of your mod only via Steam Workshop and Paid Content. Now one simple question to you: Will your mod being available as a multi-lingual version on the Workshoip? If not, then why the hell should a german, italian, french.... customer pay for it? I can understand that you have putted a lot of work in your creations, but going behind the pay wall should inlcude that you provide the same service as Bethesda did when they released Skyrim and the DLC's. If this is not a legitimate concern for you, then everything you said about your decision is only a lie. Then you care only about the money and nothing more

Quote
UnitedStrafes wrote: Never paid for a mod never will, not in Skyrim and not in Fallout 4, When I start making mods which I plan to do for Fallout It won't be because I'm expecting some compensation. Steam is full of bad ideas lately and is turning from something that was very cool into video game Wal-Mart sad really.

It's nice you spent so much time making your mod and I hope you do well, but anyone needing to be compensated for modding leads to me not needing that mod........EVER.

Quote
Draugas wrote: I'm not going to say whether or not I agree, I wish you luck.

But.

I do think you do yourself a diservice by choosing to do this *now*.

This is new, people are in an uproar, Valvthesda is exploiting modders with the percentage (opinion).

Are the potential repercussions worth putting your mod up on day two of the storm?

Quote
Silki08 wrote: Hi, I'm essentially someone genuinely trying to understand the shift. Things may be rough right now and I hope that through some of my questions you can alleviate some issues about modders going through the payment option on Steam Workshop. I'll try to organize this as best I can for your benefit.

1. To make a hobby into a career is a dream many people have in the world. However, being paid such a paltry amount for something that is essentially your design and creation seems like you are being taken advantage of. Has there been any negotiations on the part of mod authors to get a better share of the profits?

[in my opinion, for modders to be paid for putting comprehensive, functional, and revolutionary mods is a good thing. Being paid for it with something that seems even more extreme than indentured servitude seems wrong.]

2. Do you think this will effect modding for future games? Many gamers would feel that essential mods may one day be behind a paywall. For example, the new elder scrolls or fallout games may have a weak UI system. This prompts the SkyUI team to develop a better UI for the game. However this new UI mod will be behind a paywall from day one. Perhaps there is a framework that allows for mods to work in a cohesive form but must be bought to make a multitude of mods to work together. Is this acceptable in your opinion?

3. Many mods are a combined effort with those who have a distinct passion for their creation. How would the distribution of income be handled should their be assets from another mod that is free located within a mod that has been monetized?

4. How much of a cut do you think creators of these mods should have? If 25% is acceptable skip this question.

5. Many people feel that they are not actually supporting the mod authors by only having 25% of the commission go to the authors themselves. If more people donated from the start, would you have opted in this program?

6. In light of question 5. How many people actually have donated to you over your modding career?

7. How many hours have you spent on modding? This includes time spent on support, compatibility, and communication with the community.

8. In your opinion, is Valve and Bethesda doing this for the benefit of the modding community or for themselves?

9. In your opinion, should an item mod be the same price as an expansive mod? For comparisons sake, an armor mod vs a quest mod that includes: Armor, weapons, characters, buildings, locations, etc.

10. Some may argue that modding is for the community. That a group of individuals come together to make something that people with a common interest can enjoy. Do you think by going through this route, this is still possible? For example disagreements between collaborators may now increase because of this monetization option.

11. Multilingual support is usually done without the original authors help. Will multilingual support for all incredibly popular mods completely cease?

Quote
phenderix wrote: I genuinely think that this is a very good thing for the modding community.

More people will put in more time to creating better mods for Skyrim. I would gladly pay $5-10 for more mods like Falskar or Alternate Start.

I recently got a job in NYC financial district and have no where near as much time as I used to have to mod. This makes it a more compelling case to mod even when I don't have much free time anymore.

I will be using the premium version as a sort of kickstarter type campaign to fund more features added to the mod. I will be adding new worldspace and many new spells and features if people support the mod.

My mod doesn't simply add one item or do something very simple. It adds over 300 new spells to the game along with perks and other scripted features. All bug-free as of latest version. This is something I think people should want to purchase.

I understand the points a lot of you are making. I think that once this all settles that it will be an overall good thing. The 25% thing is a little ridiculous but I bet that this will eventually increase over time. I have no problem with Bethesda getting at least 50% since they created the game and creation kit to allow me to mod.

Quote
phantompally76 wrote: I can only disagree, emphatically. But that's not going to change your mind.

I won't be downloading, installing, or endorsing your mods anymore.

And frankly, that goes for anyone else that buys into this horsecrap. No matter how much you want to make yourselves believe that you're helping the modding community.....you're effectively killing it, and I REFUSE to be complicit in this betrayal.

Quote
phenderix wrote: Some very strong words. Thanks for the unendorse :)

Quote
CommanderJuraks wrote: The game creators and the file site "hosters" by far should be getting the larger portion of the cut, they literally made the game and are hosting/sharing your file(s) for download without them doing 80% of the leg work to make the mod possible in the first place there wouldn't even be a mod.

I personally don't like the concept of paying for something that was originally intended to be free and a hobby. Should the community be more gratuitous towards mod authors, absolutely but it shouldn't drive them(mod authors) to the point of hiding their works behind a pay-wall of any sort. Because let's face it, most mods aren't worth the money. While most of the mods in the "Top 100" lists here on the nexus are worth 1 dollar to 8 dollars that is just a fraction of a percent of the mods on the skyrim nexus alone that worth that bit of money. I'd rather be prompted to donate as thanks than be forced to pay for a retexture of someone else's work. My main fear with these new developments(paying for mods) is that almost every tom, dick, and harry mod maker will go hide behind a pay-wall even when the mod isn't even worth paying for.

That all being said, I appreciate modders and what they do my solution to this situation works something like this. Youtube video authors receive payment for how many views their videos get within a given period of time. The more "subscribers" they have the more almost guaranteed views they have. Why not work something out like that with the nexus?
Where if you endorse or give kudos to a specific author you get a notification every time that author uploads/updates a file. Mod authors would be payed on how many views or downloads their mods get in a given period of time(ex: a month or two weeks). The behind the scenes of how the pay would come out of the Nexus' total revenue could be worked out similarily to, again, how youtube does it. MEANING: I'd rather see mod authors paid in similar fashion to how youtube channel/video authors are being payed.

While the nexus may not like losing a bit of it's total profit this is a viable alternative to letting mod authors hide behind pay-walls whether the mod is worth the price or not.

I hope it works out for the best of the entire community and doesn't create a union of lazy people screaming for a handout or larger commission.

Quote
phantompally76 wrote: Oh, you're more than welcome, sir. Good day.

Quote
phenderix wrote: @CommanderJuraks
I completely agree with a lot of the points you listed.
That is why only one of my mods is making this transition.
The other 7 are remaining Nexus exclusives and forever free.

Good luck seeing that happen.

A bit of advice for you, if you are not modding for your own game then releasing because others may enjoy it as well then you are doing it wrong. If your motivation is recognition and money then grab either the Unreal or Unity engine and make something you own and sell it. You will get the recognition if the game is good and make far more than the %25 Beth and Valve is offering.

I have been modding since Windows 95 was the latest OS and Win 98 was just around the corner, Had Paypal donations available since 2006 I think and not received one donation and during the mid 2000's I was making complete game overhauls that took a year or more to make without a proper SDK like the CK. As in Hex editor was an essential tool to get every 3D model working. Not a single donation for 4 years spending almost every free moment creating lists in a text editor and changing 3d Models in a hex editor. And you know what? Even if those were the top downloaded mods for the 3 games they were made for that's perfectly fine. Why? Because I did it for myself first. I have an unfinished game using the Unreal engine that I can work on but making it for a job just isn't as fun.

I hope you understand that I am offering advice on how to keep modding fun and still have a place for creating something for recognition and money and that none of this was an attack. I do feel you are modding for the wrong reasons and that's why the donations thing gets to you.

cplfernandez · April 25, 2015

In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539 are all replies on the same post.

Reveal hidden contents

Quote
phenderix wrote:

Quote
BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.

As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date.

Quote
sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and apart from questioning whether you feel it totally justified to advertise Steam Workshop on the Nexus, I would like to ask if you think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.

To pay rent with.

Quote
Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?

Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :)

Quote
phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Quote
BluemaxDR wrote:

Quote
Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Like kickstarter....smart.

Quote
Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well.

Quote
Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles.
"Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click?

Quote
OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).

I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this.

Quote
Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?.

Quote
phenderix wrote: Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)

MCM is getting a portion of pay. My mod barely uses it but it will receive a portion of proceeds nevertheless.

Quote
Silki08 wrote: They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals.

Quote
butthead123 wrote: Good luck with that though i wish it felt like my money was going to you rather than valve :(

Quote
Maruun wrote: I cant be angry about it i just hope it wont bite you later...

Quote
Yerevans wrote: In the college, regarding IT in business, we have discussions regarding strategies companies use to transfer costs and work to customers to profit more.
This is such strategy in place, Bethesda does not care anymore about Skyrim, they want free and easy money, as does Valve.

This will stimulate companies to release more broken and half finished games, not that the community will not only fix it to them for free, as they will actually profit more for people doing it.

That is not modding anymore, that is 3rd party DLC, outsourcing activities, reducing exposure and liability.

I would love to hear from you if you are actually getting any reasonable amount of money, most likely you will, but philosophically I despite this, as whenever people compete by finite resources things go ugly.

But I guess this is the real ugly truth of this era, where god was killed by reason and reason replaced by money, selfishness will always prevail upon altruism.
"Each to his own and God against all" this is the nature of the world and humanity.

Quote
Darkieus wrote: ...And unendorsed and uninstalled.

I don't like Workshop, and I don't like the idea of being forced to pay for a 'Mod' (which by this point is no longer a mod, but a DLC item).

I hope this system doesn't pass onto Fallout 4. Sorry.

Quote
Vault Tec wrote: I wish you luck in your endeavors as I'm one of the many refusing to 'buy' mods due to many reasons but I'd also like to mention, VALVe and Bethesda are getting 75% of that $3 you intend to charge. You aren't going to be earning much from your endeavors especially since it was discovered yesterday that a person can buy your mod, copy the files out of the Data folder and ask for a refund. They've got the mod for free at this point and you're out of pocket.

Quote
anonownsyou wrote: As I said, everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their effort. You guys deserve 75% of your beef jerky though, not no sad 25%

Best of luck in this, I admire your optimism regarding this pushing towards quality rather than quantity, and I surely hope you're right.

Quote
TheEyelessWanderer wrote: I'm going to take care to specifically not purchase, download, endorse, or promote anything you create.

(I suggest everyone else takes the same course of action. This individual followed the gold scent. We all know where it inevitably leads.)

Quote
Ghatto wrote: This is what I was afraid of happening. It not like I don't think modders deserve any compensation, or that they can't value their work financially. It's the transformation, the necessary consideration of it that every modder will now have and how that makes them a different kind of artist and a completely different member of a now fractured mod community. Before now I'd never heard nor thought of a modder 'in it for the money', that any of their mods were being advertised like product; it was always just something they made that would improve the game and the community was reciprocative in those efforts. Now those same modders will filling their own artistic visions of their mods with thought about how much they deserve for it, something they never had to, or wanted to do while they were lovingly making mods for fun/enjoyment/challenge etc.

Everything was fine until now. Mods that were made, were made. Mods that weren't made, weren't. The community doesn't 'need' to give back, because they were never taking - modders were only ever giving, in a community of only ever giving.

Quote
WileCoyote68 wrote: Hi phenderix,
My native language/mother tongue is german and because of this fact my choosen game language is german. You say you will release the new Version of your mod only via Steam Workshop and Paid Content. Now one simple question to you: Will your mod being available as a multi-lingual version on the Workshoip? If not, then why the hell should a german, italian, french.... customer pay for it? I can understand that you have putted a lot of work in your creations, but going behind the pay wall should inlcude that you provide the same service as Bethesda did when they released Skyrim and the DLC's. If this is not a legitimate concern for you, then everything you said about your decision is only a lie. Then you care only about the money and nothing more

Quote
UnitedStrafes wrote: Never paid for a mod never will, not in Skyrim and not in Fallout 4, When I start making mods which I plan to do for Fallout It won't be because I'm expecting some compensation. Steam is full of bad ideas lately and is turning from something that was very cool into video game Wal-Mart sad really.

It's nice you spent so much time making your mod and I hope you do well, but anyone needing to be compensated for modding leads to me not needing that mod........EVER.

Quote
Draugas wrote: I'm not going to say whether or not I agree, I wish you luck.

But.

I do think you do yourself a diservice by choosing to do this *now*.

This is new, people are in an uproar, Valvthesda is exploiting modders with the percentage (opinion).

Are the potential repercussions worth putting your mod up on day two of the storm?

Quote
Silki08 wrote: Hi, I'm essentially someone genuinely trying to understand the shift. Things may be rough right now and I hope that through some of my questions you can alleviate some issues about modders going through the payment option on Steam Workshop. I'll try to organize this as best I can for your benefit.

1. To make a hobby into a career is a dream many people have in the world. However, being paid such a paltry amount for something that is essentially your design and creation seems like you are being taken advantage of. Has there been any negotiations on the part of mod authors to get a better share of the profits?

[in my opinion, for modders to be paid for putting comprehensive, functional, and revolutionary mods is a good thing. Being paid for it with something that seems even more extreme than indentured servitude seems wrong.]

2. Do you think this will effect modding for future games? Many gamers would feel that essential mods may one day be behind a paywall. For example, the new elder scrolls or fallout games may have a weak UI system. This prompts the SkyUI team to develop a better UI for the game. However this new UI mod will be behind a paywall from day one. Perhaps there is a framework that allows for mods to work in a cohesive form but must be bought to make a multitude of mods to work together. Is this acceptable in your opinion?

3. Many mods are a combined effort with those who have a distinct passion for their creation. How would the distribution of income be handled should their be assets from another mod that is free located within a mod that has been monetized?

4. How much of a cut do you think creators of these mods should have? If 25% is acceptable skip this question.

5. Many people feel that they are not actually supporting the mod authors by only having 25% of the commission go to the authors themselves. If more people donated from the start, would you have opted in this program?

6. In light of question 5. How many people actually have donated to you over your modding career?

7. How many hours have you spent on modding? This includes time spent on support, compatibility, and communication with the community.

8. In your opinion, is Valve and Bethesda doing this for the benefit of the modding community or for themselves?

9. In your opinion, should an item mod be the same price as an expansive mod? For comparisons sake, an armor mod vs a quest mod that includes: Armor, weapons, characters, buildings, locations, etc.

10. Some may argue that modding is for the community. That a group of individuals come together to make something that people with a common interest can enjoy. Do you think by going through this route, this is still possible? For example disagreements between collaborators may now increase because of this monetization option.

11. Multilingual support is usually done without the original authors help. Will multilingual support for all incredibly popular mods completely cease?

Quote
phenderix wrote: I genuinely think that this is a very good thing for the modding community.

More people will put in more time to creating better mods for Skyrim. I would gladly pay $5-10 for more mods like Falskar or Alternate Start.

I recently got a job in NYC financial district and have no where near as much time as I used to have to mod. This makes it a more compelling case to mod even when I don't have much free time anymore.

I will be using the premium version as a sort of kickstarter type campaign to fund more features added to the mod. I will be adding new worldspace and many new spells and features if people support the mod.

My mod doesn't simply add one item or do something very simple. It adds over 300 new spells to the game along with perks and other scripted features. All bug-free as of latest version. This is something I think people should want to purchase.

I understand the points a lot of you are making. I think that once this all settles that it will be an overall good thing. The 25% thing is a little ridiculous but I bet that this will eventually increase over time. I have no problem with Bethesda getting at least 50% since they created the game and creation kit to allow me to mod.

Quote
phantompally76 wrote: I can only disagree, emphatically. But that's not going to change your mind.

I won't be downloading, installing, or endorsing your mods anymore.

And frankly, that goes for anyone else that buys into this horsecrap. No matter how much you want to make yourselves believe that you're helping the modding community.....you're effectively killing it, and I REFUSE to be complicit in this betrayal.

Quote
phenderix wrote: Some very strong words. Thanks for the unendorse :)

Quote
CommanderJuraks wrote: The game creators and the file site "hosters" by far should be getting the larger portion of the cut, they literally made the game and are hosting/sharing your file(s) for download without them doing 80% of the leg work to make the mod possible in the first place there wouldn't even be a mod.

I personally don't like the concept of paying for something that was originally intended to be free and a hobby. Should the community be more gratuitous towards mod authors, absolutely but it shouldn't drive them(mod authors) to the point of hiding their works behind a pay-wall of any sort. Because let's face it, most mods aren't worth the money. While most of the mods in the "Top 100" lists here on the nexus are worth 1 dollar to 8 dollars that is just a fraction of a percent of the mods on the skyrim nexus alone that worth that bit of money. I'd rather be prompted to donate as thanks than be forced to pay for a retexture of someone else's work. My main fear with these new developments(paying for mods) is that almost every tom, dick, and harry mod maker will go hide behind a pay-wall even when the mod isn't even worth paying for.

That all being said, I appreciate modders and what they do my solution to this situation works something like this. Youtube video authors receive payment for how many views their videos get within a given period of time. The more "subscribers" they have the more almost guaranteed views they have. Why not work something out like that with the nexus?
Where if you endorse or give kudos to a specific author you get a notification every time that author uploads/updates a file. Mod authors would be payed on how many views or downloads their mods get in a given period of time(ex: a month or two weeks). The behind the scenes of how the pay would come out of the Nexus' total revenue could be worked out similarily to, again, how youtube does it. MEANING: I'd rather see mod authors paid in similar fashion to how youtube channel/video authors are being payed.

While the nexus may not like losing a bit of it's total profit this is a viable alternative to letting mod authors hide behind pay-walls whether the mod is worth the price or not.

I hope it works out for the best of the entire community and doesn't create a union of lazy people screaming for a handout or larger commission.

Quote
phantompally76 wrote: Oh, you're more than welcome, sir. Good day.

Quote
phenderix wrote: @CommanderJuraks
I completely agree with a lot of the points you listed.
That is why only one of my mods is making this transition.
The other 7 are remaining Nexus exclusives and forever free.

Quote
jet4571 wrote: Good luck seeing that happen.

A bit of advice for you, if you are not modding for your own game then releasing because others may enjoy it as well then you are doing it wrong. If your motivation is recognition and money then grab either the Unreal or Unity engine and make something you own and sell it. You will get the recognition if the game is good and make far more than the %25 Beth and Valve is offering.

I have been modding since Windows 95 was the latest OS and Win 98 was just around the corner, Had Paypal donations available since 2006 I think and not received one donation and during the mid 2000's I was making complete game overhauls that took a year or more to make without a proper SDK like the CK. As in Hex editor was an essential tool to get every 3D model working. Not a single donation for 4 years spending almost every free moment creating lists in a text editor and changing 3d Models in a hex editor. And you know what? Even if those were the top downloaded mods for the 3 games they were made for that's perfectly fine. Why? Because I did it for myself first. I have an unfinished game using the Unreal engine that I can work on but making it for a job just isn't as fun.

I hope you understand that I am offering advice on how to keep modding fun and still have a place for creating something for recognition and money and that none of this was an attack. I do feel you are modding for the wrong reasons and that's why the donations thing gets to you.

If people really believed in the donate option, wouldn't they be lining up to donat money to you in order to try to change your mind? Is that happening?

TehPikachuHat · April 25, 2015

I don't know if anyone posted this yet, but Midas Magic was hidden here and the free version on the workshop now has popups every time you cast a spell that tell you to buy the full version. I guess skyrim mods are now taking hints from android apps.

What even?

PS: I just checked and it got so bad that they had to take it down. I guess deleting the angry comments got to be a bit much for them.

Mernake · April 25, 2015

I live in Brazil. the dollar price here is 3x of the currency. I use 80 mods. Lets say every mod cost US$ 3,00. 80x3 = 240. Fine. Converting to my coutry currency is 240x3 = 720. I will have to pay R$ 720,00 to use mods. The minimal salary here is R$ 788,00. Converting this to dollar is US$ 197,00. Think about it.

jfisha · April 25, 2015

In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539, #24620654 are all replies on the same post.

Reveal hidden contents

Quote
phenderix wrote:

Quote
BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.

As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date.

Quote
sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and apart from questioning whether you feel it totally justified to advertise Steam Workshop on the Nexus, I would like to ask if you think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.

To pay rent with.

Quote
Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?

Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :)

Quote
phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Quote
BluemaxDR wrote:

Quote
Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Like kickstarter....smart.

Quote
Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well.

Quote
Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles.
"Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click?

Quote
OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).

I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this.

Quote
Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?.

Quote
phenderix wrote: Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)

MCM is getting a portion of pay. My mod barely uses it but it will receive a portion of proceeds nevertheless.

Quote
Silki08 wrote: They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals.

Quote
butthead123 wrote: Good luck with that though i wish it felt like my money was going to you rather than valve :(

Quote
Maruun wrote: I cant be angry about it i just hope it wont bite you later...

Quote
Yerevans wrote: In the college, regarding IT in business, we have discussions regarding strategies companies use to transfer costs and work to customers to profit more.
This is such strategy in place, Bethesda does not care anymore about Skyrim, they want free and easy money, as does Valve.

This will stimulate companies to release more broken and half finished games, not that the community will not only fix it to them for free, as they will actually profit more for people doing it.

That is not modding anymore, that is 3rd party DLC, outsourcing activities, reducing exposure and liability.

I would love to hear from you if you are actually getting any reasonable amount of money, most likely you will, but philosophically I despite this, as whenever people compete by finite resources things go ugly.

But I guess this is the real ugly truth of this era, where god was killed by reason and reason replaced by money, selfishness will always prevail upon altruism.
"Each to his own and God against all" this is the nature of the world and humanity.

Quote
Darkieus wrote: ...And unendorsed and uninstalled.

I don't like Workshop, and I don't like the idea of being forced to pay for a 'Mod' (which by this point is no longer a mod, but a DLC item).

I hope this system doesn't pass onto Fallout 4. Sorry.

Quote
Vault Tec wrote: I wish you luck in your endeavors as I'm one of the many refusing to 'buy' mods due to many reasons but I'd also like to mention, VALVe and Bethesda are getting 75% of that $3 you intend to charge. You aren't going to be earning much from your endeavors especially since it was discovered yesterday that a person can buy your mod, copy the files out of the Data folder and ask for a refund. They've got the mod for free at this point and you're out of pocket.

Quote
anonownsyou wrote: As I said, everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their effort. You guys deserve 75% of your beef jerky though, not no sad 25%

Best of luck in this, I admire your optimism regarding this pushing towards quality rather than quantity, and I surely hope you're right.

Quote
TheEyelessWanderer wrote: I'm going to take care to specifically not purchase, download, endorse, or promote anything you create.

(I suggest everyone else takes the same course of action. This individual followed the gold scent. We all know where it inevitably leads.)

Quote
Ghatto wrote: This is what I was afraid of happening. It not like I don't think modders deserve any compensation, or that they can't value their work financially. It's the transformation, the necessary consideration of it that every modder will now have and how that makes them a different kind of artist and a completely different member of a now fractured mod community. Before now I'd never heard nor thought of a modder 'in it for the money', that any of their mods were being advertised like product; it was always just something they made that would improve the game and the community was reciprocative in those efforts. Now those same modders will filling their own artistic visions of their mods with thought about how much they deserve for it, something they never had to, or wanted to do while they were lovingly making mods for fun/enjoyment/challenge etc.

Everything was fine until now. Mods that were made, were made. Mods that weren't made, weren't. The community doesn't 'need' to give back, because they were never taking - modders were only ever giving, in a community of only ever giving.

Quote
WileCoyote68 wrote: Hi phenderix,
My native language/mother tongue is german and because of this fact my choosen game language is german. You say you will release the new Version of your mod only via Steam Workshop and Paid Content. Now one simple question to you: Will your mod being available as a multi-lingual version on the Workshoip? If not, then why the hell should a german, italian, french.... customer pay for it? I can understand that you have putted a lot of work in your creations, but going behind the pay wall should inlcude that you provide the same service as Bethesda did when they released Skyrim and the DLC's. If this is not a legitimate concern for you, then everything you said about your decision is only a lie. Then you care only about the money and nothing more

Quote
UnitedStrafes wrote: Never paid for a mod never will, not in Skyrim and not in Fallout 4, When I start making mods which I plan to do for Fallout It won't be because I'm expecting some compensation. Steam is full of bad ideas lately and is turning from something that was very cool into video game Wal-Mart sad really.

It's nice you spent so much time making your mod and I hope you do well, but anyone needing to be compensated for modding leads to me not needing that mod........EVER.

Quote
Draugas wrote: I'm not going to say whether or not I agree, I wish you luck.

But.

I do think you do yourself a diservice by choosing to do this *now*.

This is new, people are in an uproar, Valvthesda is exploiting modders with the percentage (opinion).

Are the potential repercussions worth putting your mod up on day two of the storm?

Quote
Silki08 wrote: Hi, I'm essentially someone genuinely trying to understand the shift. Things may be rough right now and I hope that through some of my questions you can alleviate some issues about modders going through the payment option on Steam Workshop. I'll try to organize this as best I can for your benefit.

1. To make a hobby into a career is a dream many people have in the world. However, being paid such a paltry amount for something that is essentially your design and creation seems like you are being taken advantage of. Has there been any negotiations on the part of mod authors to get a better share of the profits?

[in my opinion, for modders to be paid for putting comprehensive, functional, and revolutionary mods is a good thing. Being paid for it with something that seems even more extreme than indentured servitude seems wrong.]

2. Do you think this will effect modding for future games? Many gamers would feel that essential mods may one day be behind a paywall. For example, the new elder scrolls or fallout games may have a weak UI system. This prompts the SkyUI team to develop a better UI for the game. However this new UI mod will be behind a paywall from day one. Perhaps there is a framework that allows for mods to work in a cohesive form but must be bought to make a multitude of mods to work together. Is this acceptable in your opinion?

3. Many mods are a combined effort with those who have a distinct passion for their creation. How would the distribution of income be handled should their be assets from another mod that is free located within a mod that has been monetized?

4. How much of a cut do you think creators of these mods should have? If 25% is acceptable skip this question.

5. Many people feel that they are not actually supporting the mod authors by only having 25% of the commission go to the authors themselves. If more people donated from the start, would you have opted in this program?

6. In light of question 5. How many people actually have donated to you over your modding career?

7. How many hours have you spent on modding? This includes time spent on support, compatibility, and communication with the community.

8. In your opinion, is Valve and Bethesda doing this for the benefit of the modding community or for themselves?

9. In your opinion, should an item mod be the same price as an expansive mod? For comparisons sake, an armor mod vs a quest mod that includes: Armor, weapons, characters, buildings, locations, etc.

10. Some may argue that modding is for the community. That a group of individuals come together to make something that people with a common interest can enjoy. Do you think by going through this route, this is still possible? For example disagreements between collaborators may now increase because of this monetization option.

11. Multilingual support is usually done without the original authors help. Will multilingual support for all incredibly popular mods completely cease?

Quote
phenderix wrote: I genuinely think that this is a very good thing for the modding community.

More people will put in more time to creating better mods for Skyrim. I would gladly pay $5-10 for more mods like Falskar or Alternate Start.

I recently got a job in NYC financial district and have no where near as much time as I used to have to mod. This makes it a more compelling case to mod even when I don't have much free time anymore.

I will be using the premium version as a sort of kickstarter type campaign to fund more features added to the mod. I will be adding new worldspace and many new spells and features if people support the mod.

My mod doesn't simply add one item or do something very simple. It adds over 300 new spells to the game along with perks and other scripted features. All bug-free as of latest version. This is something I think people should want to purchase.

I understand the points a lot of you are making. I think that once this all settles that it will be an overall good thing. The 25% thing is a little ridiculous but I bet that this will eventually increase over time. I have no problem with Bethesda getting at least 50% since they created the game and creation kit to allow me to mod.

Quote
phantompally76 wrote: I can only disagree, emphatically. But that's not going to change your mind.

I won't be downloading, installing, or endorsing your mods anymore.

And frankly, that goes for anyone else that buys into this horsecrap. No matter how much you want to make yourselves believe that you're helping the modding community.....you're effectively killing it, and I REFUSE to be complicit in this betrayal.

Quote
phenderix wrote: Some very strong words. Thanks for the unendorse :)

Quote
CommanderJuraks wrote: The game creators and the file site "hosters" by far should be getting the larger portion of the cut, they literally made the game and are hosting/sharing your file(s) for download without them doing 80% of the leg work to make the mod possible in the first place there wouldn't even be a mod.

I personally don't like the concept of paying for something that was originally intended to be free and a hobby. Should the community be more gratuitous towards mod authors, absolutely but it shouldn't drive them(mod authors) to the point of hiding their works behind a pay-wall of any sort. Because let's face it, most mods aren't worth the money. While most of the mods in the "Top 100" lists here on the nexus are worth 1 dollar to 8 dollars that is just a fraction of a percent of the mods on the skyrim nexus alone that worth that bit of money. I'd rather be prompted to donate as thanks than be forced to pay for a retexture of someone else's work. My main fear with these new developments(paying for mods) is that almost every tom, dick, and harry mod maker will go hide behind a pay-wall even when the mod isn't even worth paying for.

That all being said, I appreciate modders and what they do my solution to this situation works something like this. Youtube video authors receive payment for how many views their videos get within a given period of time. The more "subscribers" they have the more almost guaranteed views they have. Why not work something out like that with the nexus?
Where if you endorse or give kudos to a specific author you get a notification every time that author uploads/updates a file. Mod authors would be payed on how many views or downloads their mods get in a given period of time(ex: a month or two weeks). The behind the scenes of how the pay would come out of the Nexus' total revenue could be worked out similarily to, again, how youtube does it. MEANING: I'd rather see mod authors paid in similar fashion to how youtube channel/video authors are being payed.

While the nexus may not like losing a bit of it's total profit this is a viable alternative to letting mod authors hide behind pay-walls whether the mod is worth the price or not.

I hope it works out for the best of the entire community and doesn't create a union of lazy people screaming for a handout or larger commission.

Quote
phantompally76 wrote: Oh, you're more than welcome, sir. Good day.

Quote
phenderix wrote: @CommanderJuraks
I completely agree with a lot of the points you listed.
That is why only one of my mods is making this transition.
The other 7 are remaining Nexus exclusives and forever free.

Quote
jet4571 wrote: Good luck seeing that happen.

A bit of advice for you, if you are not modding for your own game then releasing because others may enjoy it as well then you are doing it wrong. If your motivation is recognition and money then grab either the Unreal or Unity engine and make something you own and sell it. You will get the recognition if the game is good and make far more than the %25 Beth and Valve is offering.

I have been modding since Windows 95 was the latest OS and Win 98 was just around the corner, Had Paypal donations available since 2006 I think and not received one donation and during the mid 2000's I was making complete game overhauls that took a year or more to make without a proper SDK like the CK. As in Hex editor was an essential tool to get every 3D model working. Not a single donation for 4 years spending almost every free moment creating lists in a text editor and changing 3d Models in a hex editor. And you know what? Even if those were the top downloaded mods for the 3 games they were made for that's perfectly fine. Why? Because I did it for myself first. I have an unfinished game using the Unreal engine that I can work on but making it for a job just isn't as fun.

I hope you understand that I am offering advice on how to keep modding fun and still have a place for creating something for recognition and money and that none of this was an attack. I do feel you are modding for the wrong reasons and that's why the donations thing gets to you.

Quote
cplfernandez wrote: If people really believed in the donate option, wouldn't they be lining up to donat money to you in order to try to change your mind? Is that happening?

If you're giving some money to SkyUI for use of their MCM, don't forget to kickback some to SKSE, since the MCM relies on that

Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in

Recently Browsing 0 members