Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

[stanleemojo]

In response to post #24595124. #24595439, #24595614, #24595784, #24595894, #24597769 are all replies on the same post.

Reaper0021 wrote:

Brasscatcher wrote: That's part of what's dragged me into this conversation. I'm really not that chatty online. I'm kind of an e-hermit, for the most part, lol.

There are so many ways this system could be exploited if it worked *well*. Considering how they've chosen to implement pay2mod, it can only end badly.

Reaper0021 wrote: Yeah I don't get involved in forums talk much. I come here and use Dark0ne's site(s) for all the great mods. I just look at this....and get worried about the direction things are going. I'm truly scared. There have already been mods posted on STEAM this morning that have been stolen and taken down. This isn't going to bode well I think.

Azarakos wrote: "You may sell presets, shaders, bitmaps, documentation and any other components for ENBSeries, except binary files (dll, exe) created by author of ENBSeries." - The licence agreement and distribution rules from his site. (http://enbdev.com/license_en.htm)

Despite this, I do share your concern.

Reaper0021 wrote: Respect to you Azarakos. I just see potential problems from all kinds of areas that will crop up. Kudos your way.

strudo wrote: Chesko has a post saying Valve told him that as long as it's not included in his download, it's fair game. I'm not hating on Chesko, just saying that was the policy presented to him and as such can be considered policy from Valves point of view (probably)

Like the point stated in the above rant, selling shaders for an ENB config, while granted permission by Boris, may not be permissive of the shader's code author. Changing one line in a config from .01 to .012 and selling it as your own work, basically a mod of a mod...this to me, is ridiculous. This whole fiasco brings me back to the patenting of algorithms, it's absurd to think that the system won't be abused.

[zanity]

For the sake of nothing but pure GREED (who do you think gets the lion#s share of that 75$- clue: it ain't Valve), Zenimax (one of the most loathed entities in 'entertainment) has ruined the biggest and most remarkable modding community for ever. This is the same Zenimax, for instance, that claims Occulus Rift VR belongs to them, because Carmack (with Zenimax's explicit permission) spent some time there achieving absolutely nothing.

 

Zenimax cynically uses industry psychologists to PLAY us with the old chestnut that "modders deserve a reward for their efforts". It is a carefully crafted PR stunt that uses paid 'reputation managers' to blitz every forum with 'arguments' 'explaining' why Zenimax is 'right'.

 

1) modders already received a 'reward'- as any real psychologist would point out. Gratification from 'hero worship' or being the head of a 'tribe of followers' is a more powerful incentive than money for most modders- and is the whole reason the free modding community grew so large in the first place.

 

2) no-one is arguing that mod authors shouldn't have the option to make money. They do- it is called becoming a PROFESSIONAL coder/designer/artist/software developer. However, professionals have to follow RULES and standards of conduct. The laissez faire world of modding does NOT reach the standard of legal rigour for paid work.

 

3) the costs of policing of paid mods for Skyrim, as required by the Law in most nations, will overwhelm potential profits- and Valve and Zenimax know this. There for, Valve and Zenimax wish to encourage an OUTLAW wild-west for Skyrim mods where the law is ignored for as long as possible while Zenimax reels in their profits. The model for Zenimax approved and monetised mods is PURE PIRACY where 'dirty' mods that use the unpaid IP of others (including unpaid quality assurance testing and unpaid feature suggestions- let alone all the stolen code, graphics, animation and other assets) is ignored, while paid Zenimax shills blitz forums telling the gullible that the laws on IP don't apply to mods for Zenimax games.

 

4) Zenimax already had the means and financial incentive to approach the authors of the most interesting mods, buy the rights to the mods, and use them to craft PROPERLY SUPPORTED, LEGAL DLC for Skyrim. So why didn't Zenimax go down this route? Because Zenimax can't even get their own code from their own internal software team working bug-free to any reasonable degree. For them to assure (as the law requires) that paid mods work would be beyond Zenimax's ability- and yet trading standards Laws in the USA, UK, EU, Canada etc require exactly this from paid for software.

 

5) Moding is (was) a COMMUNITY. Now it is a bunch of people out for themselves, who now see their fellow modders as 'the enemy'. The DODGY practises so common-place on free modding, that everyone could overlook for the 'greater good' now all rise to the top. The ONLY modding that survives this apocalypse is:

 

- lone talented modder strangely determined to make money in the worst market for paying software. Such a person can ensure everything is his own legal possession.

- outright crook happy to steal the work of others while screaming about the 'right' of modders to be paid for their 'work'. Such a person has ZERO respect for the IP and work of others. He will form the majority of paid modding 'authors'.

-hyper rare small collaboration where the team agrees to split the profits amongst themselves. For obvious reasons, a team suffers the 'can of worms' of who actually 'owns' the mod, and how each member of the team gets paid.

 

6) people using Skyrim mods fall into two camps. Those that treat mods as DLC, and maybe install one or two mods (and thus would make ideal customers for paid mods). Those that completely change the experience of Skyrim by using as many mods together as the game and their computer can sustain. This second group is by far the most important user community of the Skyrim modding community- and obviously could NEVER afford to do this with paid mods (that would add 100 dollars plus to the cost of their gaming).

 

All smart observers KNOW Zenimax chose to ruin modding for a game they consider ANCIENT and irrelevant as a test-bed for future paid modding for Fallout 4. The IRONY is that almost everyone here would have ZERO issue with Zenimax trying something new with Fallout 4 modding - new game, new ideas, new start. But Skyrim already has a modding community defined by the rules Zenimax chose to put in place when Skyrim was first released, and again when all the modding tools were made available. And the no.1 rule was "mods must be FREE is they use our assets in any way". This rule DEFINES modding on Skyrim soul and bone deep.

 

It is not too late for the (slightly) better people at Bethesda to tell Zenimax the whole thing has proven a disaster, and that they had better grow-up, reinstate free mods only for Skyrim, and keep the paid mod project for future titles only, starting with Fallout 4. That way all the modders (foolishly) salivating to make paid mods get start to research the LEGAL requirements they must meet in order to sell software products to the general public. They can start to put pressure on Zenimax to offer correct legal support to Fallout 4 mods on Steam Store. They can act to end the 'wild west' of illegal software sales on Steam, and move paid modding into a PROFESSION that can earn the respect of people.

 

"I wanna get paid for the time I spend making my mod- wahhh!!!" is NOT a legal argument- ask all those artists who spend their hobby time drawing cartoons that include the IP of others on Deviantart etc. You can ONLY ask to get paid when your work is FULLY legal. Most people choose to mod because they can safely ignore this requirement, and quietly or overtly 'borrow' the work of others. If I spend a thousand hours writing a Star Trek novel, and a million people read my book, I still can't get a dime UNLESS I reach a contractual position with Paramount- the owners of the Star Trek IP. And I CANNOT force them to grant me the right to make money from their IP, just because I spent time appropriating it. Most current Skyrim mods are in the same position.

[Aahzmandias]

There is an additional point, you need to be aware of.

 

Modding is in a gray area. With the new bussiness modell of steam, giving the developer studios 45% of the profits, they will try to take you down. Soon. If the modell generates enough income, that is.

 

You can bet on this. Greed will do that.

 

Only ONE DMCA takedown notice is sufficient to do the trick. I can only say to all of you, get the mods you need, and save them on your harddisk ASAP.

[PickleJar]

Chesko, the one behind the fishing mod, has said on Reddit that the Nexus is a "service provider" under the workshop and is taking a cut. Is this true?

 

Edited April 24, 2015 by PickleJar

[BattlemasterRiin]

In response to post #24597829. #24598674 is also a reply to the same post.

anarkywolf wrote:

Shadow_Dragyn wrote: They are not viable. The number of people who actually donate anything to any mod is literally several decimal places beneath a fraction of a percent. Some people are trying to put up crappy or stolen mods for a fee out of greed, but that isn't the norm.
The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy.
People do not donate, and that's why something like this is necessary to help support modding and let it grow.
Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like, and I'm not the only person who has been facing that kind of issue.
How many times have you seen someone release a quality outfit that was not made of recycled parts? Hardly ever, because once someone has enough skill to actually do something like that, they'd be better off creating it for someone else's game, or even their own game, and getting paid for it.
Even Faalskar was created simply because the author was confident that he could land a job off of it. No one could justify devoting that kind of time and energy without getting anything back from it.

@Shadow

No, the greedy ones are those that EXPECT compensation. I for one, will never, EVER buy a mod off Steam. I will however, donate to authors I feel deserve it. Do you think those that refuse to donate are going to instead BUY the mod? hah! If anything, it's only hurting the Modders, those would would normally donate now will not, if the Mod is up for sale on the Workshop.

[Alienfriend]

In response to post #24598874.

DoverWolf wrote:

Yes thanks you for all!
I already know something was wrong with Bethesda mind when i saw Elder Scrolls online. And now this?! I going to clearly boycot Elder Scrolls VI.
I really hope modder commmunity and nexus community will stand up and stay unite in front of that greedy attitude. Video game has becoming a juicy industry (bad games, games unifished and selling as dlcs...). Raise up against that!

[Rigmor]

Dark is it possible to have the donate pop up only on the main file, because it's on optional files and those mp3's are meant to be gifts?

[camer823]

PLEASE READ BEFORE TAKING THE FIGHT TO STEAM!

Many people who are speaking out against this on steam right now are receiving these-

"Your Steam Community privileges have been suspended for 1 week for violations of the Steam Subscriber Agreement."

I know one week is not long (I also dont know if others are getting different times then this) and to me it was worth it to put in my 2 cents (which was just that this should be replaced with a donate button that goes straight to the mod author rather then a 75% cut to the big companies). I just thought people would like to know that steam is doing its usual thing to people who disagree with them and are just silencing them without telling us what part of the agreement we broke specifically. Was it that part where we have to agree with everything they do and say? Or was it the part that says we cant criticize them?

[Kakkoi3]

In response to post #24596349. #24596569, #24596594, #24596934 are all replies on the same post.

TheEyelessWanderer wrote:

PotatoHunter wrote: Lmao wow. Almost ridiculously accurate.

PickleJar wrote: I think that regardless of whether you think Skyrim belongs to the Nords or whether you're still patrolling the Mojave and wishing for a nuclear winter, it still matters.

Other games with future Steam Workshop support are affected too, like DayZ or Killing Floor 2.

fioskal wrote: I think this will be the first playthrough that I'm on the Stormcloak side. ;)

Same here.

[phellen]

In response to post #24596944. #24597759, #24597794, #24597919, #24598154 are all replies on the same post.

phellen wrote:

oqhansoloqo wrote: That's a great idea, I think.

akkalat85 wrote: That's kind of a cool idea. Maybe give them a month's free premium membership or something along those lines.

hector530 wrote: "After all the modding community wouldn't exist as it does today if it wasn't for the nexus."

maybe for TES, but other games did well without nexus

SunPuppy wrote: Personally I think (and have always thought) Nexus should simply make a tipjar app where you can (if you want) tip the artist if they link it to their paypal account or something similar to that.
That way you aren't getting bogged down into legal issues with paying for mods which may have dmca issues, etc..simply giving a personal little reward to someones hard work..gives modders incentive to make good works, and everyones happy.

Mods of the month getting bonuses are ok, but some people may find far more enjoyment out of some obscure mod that was overlooked a year ago verses the latest elf clothing that got popvoted.

More suggestions for how to improve the community:

1. Some sort of Nexus symbol for modders to place on their mod pages if they win files of the month would be cool, like a nexus Gold badge that says File of the Month or a silver one that says Top 5

2. Featured modders of the week is another cool idea, where a certain mod author can have his/her work featured on the front page, along with a little text box interview with that modder.

3. Hot files should have their own search feature, such as "past hot files." Edited April 24, 2015 by phellen