Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

[FordPerfect]

A viable alternative to monetizing mods

 

I'd like to ask everyone who uses Nexus, both as a modder and as a mod user to have a look at the above and let me know what you think. Thank you

[PerfectByNature]

In response to post #24681829. #24686464, #24687639, #24689534, #24690734, #24694409, #24695224, #24696659, #24697089, #24697214 are all replies on the same post.

PerfectByNature wrote:

Flenzil wrote: I think it's a bit short-sighted for you to say that you'd gladly pay for mods based on that list. Of course you'd pay for those mods, you've had years of playing with them and seeing how reliable the modders are. I think it's a bit different when it comes to a new modder that you've never heard of who, as far as you know, could take your money and never update the mod if a game update breaks it, or another popular mod is incompatable with it. I think mods, and the quality thereof, are just too volatile to put behind a paywall. I could never trust a mod enough to pay without playing with it for a while first. And what if you buy a mod, say a grass textures mod or something, and then a new grass textures mod comes out that's better than the one you just bought (it has less incompatibilities for instance)? I'll have to pay again for essentially the same mod just so I can play the game without glitches and crashes due to incompatibilities. And how about mods that have pre-requisites? I'll have to buy all the other mods just so I can get the one I want. Pretty soon, I've payed more on the mods than I did on the game itself. I'm all for modders being rearded for their efforts but putting them behind a paywall seems to be the worst way to do it.

PerfectByNature wrote: There's ways for mod-authors to demo their mods.
For example:
Free versions that has one or a few features stripped.
Youtube-mod reviewers.

And how likely do you think it is that a completely unknown modder would be able to earn a living from mods? Not likely. Most modders will have to build their rep up using free mods or really cheap but awesome mods.
Creating weapons & armor packs is one example. And those won't "break" due to a game update.

Most people are just negative because they have to pay, coming up with all sort of ridiculous reasons why it would be bad.
"I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.
"what if a similar mod comes out but it's better?" - Same thing here, no one is forcing you to "upgrade" and there's plenty of free mods that probably does the same or similar thing.

The paid mod system is customer steered. If you want to pay för lame mods, free ones or just the really ambitious mods go ahead.

92DemonKing wrote: "I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.

You are being short sighted and completely ignore one thing, which is the reason so many people are angry about this. You say there are "over 40k free mods out there". But wait a few years and new games and those free mods for new games won't exist and you have to pay for every single mod.

Which means that if you wanted to use 200 mods you'd have to pay for every one of them, no alternative. make it they each cost 1$, that's 200$ = the vast majority of people cannot afford it = modding community and PC advantage killed of.

That's where this will lead. Spending 60$ for a game, then 30$ per DLC, then 1$ per mod in a game like Skyrim? The cost would go over 800$. Good luck keeping up with that.

The sad and stupid part is that big part of the reason Bethesda sold so many copies of Skyrim was because of the craze over unlimited FREE mods. Take that away and Skyrim is just a game like many others that would have died off in less than a year. So if the paid mods thing becomes standard, companies will effectively be killing off their own free marketing...

Flenzil wrote: There's a lot of people out there that would say that a lot of Bethesda's games are close to unplayable on PC (Crash to Desktops, poorly done textures, getting stuck in rocks etc.). There are mods out there that fix these things, like the Unofficial Skyrim Patch. It seems like Bethesda is content to releasing quite a broken game and just letting other people fix it. Fallout 3 still has these problems and that was released 7 years ago. What if the unofficial patch decided to put the mod behind a paywall? I'd have to pay for a mod to fix the glitches found in the game I just payed for, and Bethesda wants a cut of that money too. And imagine if I wanted to play Skyrim, but found I had to also buy Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion in order to play it?

What about the fact that free mods could be easily stolen and sold on the Steam Workshop? That could discourage people from making free mods in the first place (I think some people have already removed thier mods because of this).

I think that if there was an easily visible, easy-to-use donate button; people would use it. I mean, I could easily get anything on Netflix for free, but I don't because Netflix has made it more convenient to pay, I could get anything that Steam sells for free, but I don't because Steam makes it more convienient to pay. I could get any song I want for free, but I don't because I want to support the artist. If there was simply a big button next to " download " that was a one-click donate button, I would donate to those modders whose mods I use extensively and enjoy. But with the system now I feel like I have to gamble whether the mod is: functional, stable, fun or simply worth the money (much like early-access or kickstarter).

AndreaCristiano wrote: I have 300 mods. If I did have to pay 1 dollar for each one of them I'd quit playing Skyrim in no time.

madpaddy wrote: So you havent donated to any mods and have only bothered to endorse 4 mods in 2 yrs but you hate cry babies who want stuff for free, because hay your not one of them right you pay your way and encourage them by giving the endorsements right...Oh wait.

jet4571 wrote: Going to offer him some burn cream madpaddy? I think he may need some now.

headlesswonder wrote: Your notion that the concerns which have been voiced regarding this debacle are being issued by "all of the crybabies that expect everything for free" is ignorant, at best. Many well-known modders have made very clear that they will not take part in it for various reasons. Do they fit your image of crybabies who just want to get everything for free? They're the ones creating the mods and are refusing to participate in something that they feel will ultimately taint the spirit of the community.

As I mentioned in a more general post, perhaps coming from an old-school mod community mentality contributes to my opposition of charging for mods. I was one of the more well-known modders for Morrowind. I also assisted a few mods for Oblivion and Skyrim. I worked on projects that took hundreds of hours to complete. I loved it. It was not a job. It was born of love of the game. It was sharing something I love with others who also it. It was commonplace to see great modders offering suggestions, unrequested, to other great modders, and being "paid" in kind because the general mentality was that it was a community of people who shared a common passion. It was possible to accept donations at the time and most of the modders outright refused the notion. I don't begrudge anyone accepting donations (although I was never comfortable doing so, myself), however, outright charging for mods is something I find disgraceful.

In addition to that, complications regarding the selling of others' assets abound, regardless of whether or not the original author is pro or against selling their own content. It isn't even just the blatant theft of another's work which is still readily available. It is that plenty of mods which do not include express wording regarding profit as it was never necessary due to legal issues (and the overall sharing mentality of the community) are stored on many a hard drive even if they have now been removed from future public access. The ramifications of it are far-reaching in terms of good faith in the community.

It was never about greed. This is absolutely greed on the parts of anyone who participates. Everything does not have to be about money. I realize that some feel that modders should be compensated for their "work" which is not in and of itself a negative intention, however, I would like to point out that modding has never been seen as an additional job. For that matter, there are plenty of modders who do still reap the benefits of modding as they are able to build a portfolio in doing so. The exception to that, my opinion, is the potential for the game developer to legitimately purchase a large scale mod for a fair price to include in future games and/or DLC (with credit, to the originator, as well) which would be an amazing opportunity for any talented modder.

What really gets me about your rant is that in the same breath, you condescend to those who are in support of donation buttons rather than fees because they'd "never use it anyway" and immediately admit that you have never done so, yourself. If you were truly concerned for all of us poor, neglected modders rather than just taking the opportunity to behave like a donkey's rear in assuming you understand why such a large chunk of the community is unhappy with this decision, you'd have donated to those of your favorite modders who accept compensation long before now. All talk, no action, isn't that what you said?

Since when is a simple upvote, endorsement, comment singing a mod's praises or a "thank you" not enough for doing something you already love doing? This reminds me of all those little bastards who go door to door in elderly neighborhoods, asking the old folks to pay them $10 for shoveling their walks. Perhaps some younger people don't understand the concept that money should not be the most important thing in everything you do.

At the very least, make note that the opposition is about much more than whiners wanting everything for free.

phantompally76 wrote: PerfectByNature, your glaring hypocrisy is shameful.

No you guys are shamefull.. Do you really think mod-authors give a sh*t about endorsement in the end? Endorsements won't keep the author from abandoning mods.

And no i haven't donated and neither have you probably. If you have well done, you're one of the few.

[falcor23]

In response to post #24681829. #24686464, #24687639, #24689534, #24690734, #24694409, #24695224, #24696659, #24697089, #24697214, #24702624 are all replies on the same post.

PerfectByNature wrote:

Flenzil wrote: I think it's a bit short-sighted for you to say that you'd gladly pay for mods based on that list. Of course you'd pay for those mods, you've had years of playing with them and seeing how reliable the modders are. I think it's a bit different when it comes to a new modder that you've never heard of who, as far as you know, could take your money and never update the mod if a game update breaks it, or another popular mod is incompatable with it. I think mods, and the quality thereof, are just too volatile to put behind a paywall. I could never trust a mod enough to pay without playing with it for a while first. And what if you buy a mod, say a grass textures mod or something, and then a new grass textures mod comes out that's better than the one you just bought (it has less incompatibilities for instance)? I'll have to pay again for essentially the same mod just so I can play the game without glitches and crashes due to incompatibilities. And how about mods that have pre-requisites? I'll have to buy all the other mods just so I can get the one I want. Pretty soon, I've payed more on the mods than I did on the game itself. I'm all for modders being rearded for their efforts but putting them behind a paywall seems to be the worst way to do it.

PerfectByNature wrote: There's ways for mod-authors to demo their mods.
For example:
Free versions that has one or a few features stripped.
Youtube-mod reviewers.

And how likely do you think it is that a completely unknown modder would be able to earn a living from mods? Not likely. Most modders will have to build their rep up using free mods or really cheap but awesome mods.
Creating weapons & armor packs is one example. And those won't "break" due to a game update.

Most people are just negative because they have to pay, coming up with all sort of ridiculous reasons why it would be bad.
"I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.
"what if a similar mod comes out but it's better?" - Same thing here, no one is forcing you to "upgrade" and there's plenty of free mods that probably does the same or similar thing.

The paid mod system is customer steered. If you want to pay för lame mods, free ones or just the really ambitious mods go ahead.

92DemonKing wrote: "I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.

You are being short sighted and completely ignore one thing, which is the reason so many people are angry about this. You say there are "over 40k free mods out there". But wait a few years and new games and those free mods for new games won't exist and you have to pay for every single mod.

Which means that if you wanted to use 200 mods you'd have to pay for every one of them, no alternative. make it they each cost 1$, that's 200$ = the vast majority of people cannot afford it = modding community and PC advantage killed of.

That's where this will lead. Spending 60$ for a game, then 30$ per DLC, then 1$ per mod in a game like Skyrim? The cost would go over 800$. Good luck keeping up with that.

The sad and stupid part is that big part of the reason Bethesda sold so many copies of Skyrim was because of the craze over unlimited FREE mods. Take that away and Skyrim is just a game like many others that would have died off in less than a year. So if the paid mods thing becomes standard, companies will effectively be killing off their own free marketing...

Flenzil wrote: There's a lot of people out there that would say that a lot of Bethesda's games are close to unplayable on PC (Crash to Desktops, poorly done textures, getting stuck in rocks etc.). There are mods out there that fix these things, like the Unofficial Skyrim Patch. It seems like Bethesda is content to releasing quite a broken game and just letting other people fix it. Fallout 3 still has these problems and that was released 7 years ago. What if the unofficial patch decided to put the mod behind a paywall? I'd have to pay for a mod to fix the glitches found in the game I just payed for, and Bethesda wants a cut of that money too. And imagine if I wanted to play Skyrim, but found I had to also buy Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion in order to play it?

What about the fact that free mods could be easily stolen and sold on the Steam Workshop? That could discourage people from making free mods in the first place (I think some people have already removed thier mods because of this).

I think that if there was an easily visible, easy-to-use donate button; people would use it. I mean, I could easily get anything on Netflix for free, but I don't because Netflix has made it more convenient to pay, I could get anything that Steam sells for free, but I don't because Steam makes it more convienient to pay. I could get any song I want for free, but I don't because I want to support the artist. If there was simply a big button next to " download " that was a one-click donate button, I would donate to those modders whose mods I use extensively and enjoy. But with the system now I feel like I have to gamble whether the mod is: functional, stable, fun or simply worth the money (much like early-access or kickstarter).

AndreaCristiano wrote: I have 300 mods. If I did have to pay 1 dollar for each one of them I'd quit playing Skyrim in no time.

madpaddy wrote: So you havent donated to any mods and have only bothered to endorse 4 mods in 2 yrs but you hate cry babies who want stuff for free, because hay your not one of them right you pay your way and encourage them by giving the endorsements right...Oh wait.

jet4571 wrote: Going to offer him some burn cream madpaddy? I think he may need some now.

headlesswonder wrote: Your notion that the concerns which have been voiced regarding this debacle are being issued by "all of the crybabies that expect everything for free" is ignorant, at best. Many well-known modders have made very clear that they will not take part in it for various reasons. Do they fit your image of crybabies who just want to get everything for free? They're the ones creating the mods and are refusing to participate in something that they feel will ultimately taint the spirit of the community.

As I mentioned in a more general post, perhaps coming from an old-school mod community mentality contributes to my opposition of charging for mods. I was one of the more well-known modders for Morrowind. I also assisted a few mods for Oblivion and Skyrim. I worked on projects that took hundreds of hours to complete. I loved it. It was not a job. It was born of love of the game. It was sharing something I love with others who also it. It was commonplace to see great modders offering suggestions, unrequested, to other great modders, and being "paid" in kind because the general mentality was that it was a community of people who shared a common passion. It was possible to accept donations at the time and most of the modders outright refused the notion. I don't begrudge anyone accepting donations (although I was never comfortable doing so, myself), however, outright charging for mods is something I find disgraceful.

In addition to that, complications regarding the selling of others' assets abound, regardless of whether or not the original author is pro or against selling their own content. It isn't even just the blatant theft of another's work which is still readily available. It is that plenty of mods which do not include express wording regarding profit as it was never necessary due to legal issues (and the overall sharing mentality of the community) are stored on many a hard drive even if they have now been removed from future public access. The ramifications of it are far-reaching in terms of good faith in the community.

It was never about greed. This is absolutely greed on the parts of anyone who participates. Everything does not have to be about money. I realize that some feel that modders should be compensated for their "work" which is not in and of itself a negative intention, however, I would like to point out that modding has never been seen as an additional job. For that matter, there are plenty of modders who do still reap the benefits of modding as they are able to build a portfolio in doing so. The exception to that, my opinion, is the potential for the game developer to legitimately purchase a large scale mod for a fair price to include in future games and/or DLC (with credit, to the originator, as well) which would be an amazing opportunity for any talented modder.

What really gets me about your rant is that in the same breath, you condescend to those who are in support of donation buttons rather than fees because they'd "never use it anyway" and immediately admit that you have never done so, yourself. If you were truly concerned for all of us poor, neglected modders rather than just taking the opportunity to behave like a donkey's rear in assuming you understand why such a large chunk of the community is unhappy with this decision, you'd have donated to those of your favorite modders who accept compensation long before now. All talk, no action, isn't that what you said?

Since when is a simple upvote, endorsement, comment singing a mod's praises or a "thank you" not enough for doing something you already love doing? This reminds me of all those little bastards who go door to door in elderly neighborhoods, asking the old folks to pay them $10 for shoveling their walks. Perhaps some younger people don't understand the concept that money should not be the most important thing in everything you do.

At the very least, make note that the opposition is about much more than whiners wanting everything for free.

phantompally76 wrote: PerfectByNature, your glaring hypocrisy is shameful.

PerfectByNature wrote: No you guys are shamefull.. Do you really think mod-authors give a sh*t about endorsement in the end? Endorsements won't keep the author from abandoning mods.

And no i haven't donated and neither have you probably. If you have well done, you're one of the few.

Thats what people are failing to understand this is the digital age EVERYTHING online is free in one form or another and if people don't wanna pay they wont. People just want a way to pay that they don't feel like they are being forced at gun point to pay for something they have gotten for free for 10+ years and have ZERO guarantees that will work or will even be compatible with other paid mods. (other than a shady 24 hour return policy which is laughable at best).

Though I gotta say its nice to see the community stand up and start conversations on this scale about something they feel strongly about, normally is incoherent death threats and pissing contests on steam forums and it fizzles away in a day.

This topic one way or another will change how modding works forever.

Ps. Dark0ne you deserve all the money you can get, you run one helluva site.

[RogueDemonKing]

In response to post #24681829. #24686464, #24687639, #24689534, #24690734, #24694409, #24695224, #24696659, #24697089, #24697214, #24702624, #24708044 are all replies on the same post.

PerfectByNature wrote:

Flenzil wrote: I think it's a bit short-sighted for you to say that you'd gladly pay for mods based on that list. Of course you'd pay for those mods, you've had years of playing with them and seeing how reliable the modders are. I think it's a bit different when it comes to a new modder that you've never heard of who, as far as you know, could take your money and never update the mod if a game update breaks it, or another popular mod is incompatable with it. I think mods, and the quality thereof, are just too volatile to put behind a paywall. I could never trust a mod enough to pay without playing with it for a while first. And what if you buy a mod, say a grass textures mod or something, and then a new grass textures mod comes out that's better than the one you just bought (it has less incompatibilities for instance)? I'll have to pay again for essentially the same mod just so I can play the game without glitches and crashes due to incompatibilities. And how about mods that have pre-requisites? I'll have to buy all the other mods just so I can get the one I want. Pretty soon, I've payed more on the mods than I did on the game itself. I'm all for modders being rearded for their efforts but putting them behind a paywall seems to be the worst way to do it.

PerfectByNature wrote: There's ways for mod-authors to demo their mods.
For example:
Free versions that has one or a few features stripped.
Youtube-mod reviewers.

And how likely do you think it is that a completely unknown modder would be able to earn a living from mods? Not likely. Most modders will have to build their rep up using free mods or really cheap but awesome mods.
Creating weapons & armor packs is one example. And those won't "break" due to a game update.

Most people are just negative because they have to pay, coming up with all sort of ridiculous reasons why it would be bad.
"I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.
"what if a similar mod comes out but it's better?" - Same thing here, no one is forcing you to "upgrade" and there's plenty of free mods that probably does the same or similar thing.

The paid mod system is customer steered. If you want to pay för lame mods, free ones or just the really ambitious mods go ahead.

92DemonKing wrote: "I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.

You are being short sighted and completely ignore one thing, which is the reason so many people are angry about this. You say there are "over 40k free mods out there". But wait a few years and new games and those free mods for new games won't exist and you have to pay for every single mod.

Which means that if you wanted to use 200 mods you'd have to pay for every one of them, no alternative. make it they each cost 1$, that's 200$ = the vast majority of people cannot afford it = modding community and PC advantage killed of.

That's where this will lead. Spending 60$ for a game, then 30$ per DLC, then 1$ per mod in a game like Skyrim? The cost would go over 800$. Good luck keeping up with that.

The sad and stupid part is that big part of the reason Bethesda sold so many copies of Skyrim was because of the craze over unlimited FREE mods. Take that away and Skyrim is just a game like many others that would have died off in less than a year. So if the paid mods thing becomes standard, companies will effectively be killing off their own free marketing...

Flenzil wrote: There's a lot of people out there that would say that a lot of Bethesda's games are close to unplayable on PC (Crash to Desktops, poorly done textures, getting stuck in rocks etc.). There are mods out there that fix these things, like the Unofficial Skyrim Patch. It seems like Bethesda is content to releasing quite a broken game and just letting other people fix it. Fallout 3 still has these problems and that was released 7 years ago. What if the unofficial patch decided to put the mod behind a paywall? I'd have to pay for a mod to fix the glitches found in the game I just payed for, and Bethesda wants a cut of that money too. And imagine if I wanted to play Skyrim, but found I had to also buy Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion in order to play it?

What about the fact that free mods could be easily stolen and sold on the Steam Workshop? That could discourage people from making free mods in the first place (I think some people have already removed thier mods because of this).

I think that if there was an easily visible, easy-to-use donate button; people would use it. I mean, I could easily get anything on Netflix for free, but I don't because Netflix has made it more convenient to pay, I could get anything that Steam sells for free, but I don't because Steam makes it more convienient to pay. I could get any song I want for free, but I don't because I want to support the artist. If there was simply a big button next to " download " that was a one-click donate button, I would donate to those modders whose mods I use extensively and enjoy. But with the system now I feel like I have to gamble whether the mod is: functional, stable, fun or simply worth the money (much like early-access or kickstarter).

AndreaCristiano wrote: I have 300 mods. If I did have to pay 1 dollar for each one of them I'd quit playing Skyrim in no time.

madpaddy wrote: So you havent donated to any mods and have only bothered to endorse 4 mods in 2 yrs but you hate cry babies who want stuff for free, because hay your not one of them right you pay your way and encourage them by giving the endorsements right...Oh wait.

jet4571 wrote: Going to offer him some burn cream madpaddy? I think he may need some now.

headlesswonder wrote: Your notion that the concerns which have been voiced regarding this debacle are being issued by "all of the crybabies that expect everything for free" is ignorant, at best. Many well-known modders have made very clear that they will not take part in it for various reasons. Do they fit your image of crybabies who just want to get everything for free? They're the ones creating the mods and are refusing to participate in something that they feel will ultimately taint the spirit of the community.

As I mentioned in a more general post, perhaps coming from an old-school mod community mentality contributes to my opposition of charging for mods. I was one of the more well-known modders for Morrowind. I also assisted a few mods for Oblivion and Skyrim. I worked on projects that took hundreds of hours to complete. I loved it. It was not a job. It was born of love of the game. It was sharing something I love with others who also it. It was commonplace to see great modders offering suggestions, unrequested, to other great modders, and being "paid" in kind because the general mentality was that it was a community of people who shared a common passion. It was possible to accept donations at the time and most of the modders outright refused the notion. I don't begrudge anyone accepting donations (although I was never comfortable doing so, myself), however, outright charging for mods is something I find disgraceful.

In addition to that, complications regarding the selling of others' assets abound, regardless of whether or not the original author is pro or against selling their own content. It isn't even just the blatant theft of another's work which is still readily available. It is that plenty of mods which do not include express wording regarding profit as it was never necessary due to legal issues (and the overall sharing mentality of the community) are stored on many a hard drive even if they have now been removed from future public access. The ramifications of it are far-reaching in terms of good faith in the community.

It was never about greed. This is absolutely greed on the parts of anyone who participates. Everything does not have to be about money. I realize that some feel that modders should be compensated for their "work" which is not in and of itself a negative intention, however, I would like to point out that modding has never been seen as an additional job. For that matter, there are plenty of modders who do still reap the benefits of modding as they are able to build a portfolio in doing so. The exception to that, my opinion, is the potential for the game developer to legitimately purchase a large scale mod for a fair price to include in future games and/or DLC (with credit, to the originator, as well) which would be an amazing opportunity for any talented modder.

What really gets me about your rant is that in the same breath, you condescend to those who are in support of donation buttons rather than fees because they'd "never use it anyway" and immediately admit that you have never done so, yourself. If you were truly concerned for all of us poor, neglected modders rather than just taking the opportunity to behave like a donkey's rear in assuming you understand why such a large chunk of the community is unhappy with this decision, you'd have donated to those of your favorite modders who accept compensation long before now. All talk, no action, isn't that what you said?

Since when is a simple upvote, endorsement, comment singing a mod's praises or a "thank you" not enough for doing something you already love doing? This reminds me of all those little bastards who go door to door in elderly neighborhoods, asking the old folks to pay them $10 for shoveling their walks. Perhaps some younger people don't understand the concept that money should not be the most important thing in everything you do.

At the very least, make note that the opposition is about much more than whiners wanting everything for free.

phantompally76 wrote: PerfectByNature, your glaring hypocrisy is shameful.

PerfectByNature wrote: No you guys are shamefull.. Do you really think mod-authors give a sh*t about endorsement in the end? Endorsements won't keep the author from abandoning mods.

And no i haven't donated and neither have you probably. If you have well done, you're one of the few.

falcor23 wrote: Thats what people are failing to understand this is the digital age EVERYTHING online is free in one form or another and if people don't wanna pay they wont. People just want a way to pay that they don't feel like they are being forced at gun point to pay for something they have gotten for free for 10+ years and have ZERO guarantees that will work or will even be compatible with other paid mods. (other than a shady 24 hour return policy which is laughable at best).

Though I gotta say its nice to see the community stand up and start conversations on this scale about something they feel strongly about, normally is incoherent death threats and pissing contests on steam forums and it fizzles away in a day.

This topic one way or another will change how modding works forever.

Ps. Dark0ne you deserve all the money you can get, you run one helluva site.

@ PerfectByNature

And you completely ignored any argument brought up and insulted both modders and users at the same time...

gj...

[MrDave]

"Some mod descriptions are buried underneath change logs, latest news, FAQs, information about the author's dog in the vets and so on and so forth. Sometimes it can be a real struggle just to find the freaking description of what the mod actually does."

 

In regards to this, it's an ever growing trend to floodfill the description page with Reddit like spam. Screenshots, memes, all sorts of garbage that has no business being in the DESCRIPTION.

I complained on one mod and was immediately attacked by white knight psychos having childish temper tantrums, so from now on any mod I see abusing the description section is getting reported instead. I suggest others do the same thing until this idiocy is stopped.

[MrDave]

In response to post #24681829. #24686464, #24687639, #24689534, #24690734, #24694409, #24695224, #24696659, #24697089, #24697214, #24702624, #24708044, #24708509 are all replies on the same post.

PerfectByNature wrote:

Flenzil wrote: I think it's a bit short-sighted for you to say that you'd gladly pay for mods based on that list. Of course you'd pay for those mods, you've had years of playing with them and seeing how reliable the modders are. I think it's a bit different when it comes to a new modder that you've never heard of who, as far as you know, could take your money and never update the mod if a game update breaks it, or another popular mod is incompatable with it. I think mods, and the quality thereof, are just too volatile to put behind a paywall. I could never trust a mod enough to pay without playing with it for a while first. And what if you buy a mod, say a grass textures mod or something, and then a new grass textures mod comes out that's better than the one you just bought (it has less incompatibilities for instance)? I'll have to pay again for essentially the same mod just so I can play the game without glitches and crashes due to incompatibilities. And how about mods that have pre-requisites? I'll have to buy all the other mods just so I can get the one I want. Pretty soon, I've payed more on the mods than I did on the game itself. I'm all for modders being rearded for their efforts but putting them behind a paywall seems to be the worst way to do it.

PerfectByNature wrote: There's ways for mod-authors to demo their mods.
For example:
Free versions that has one or a few features stripped.
Youtube-mod reviewers.

And how likely do you think it is that a completely unknown modder would be able to earn a living from mods? Not likely. Most modders will have to build their rep up using free mods or really cheap but awesome mods.
Creating weapons & armor packs is one example. And those won't "break" due to a game update.

Most people are just negative because they have to pay, coming up with all sort of ridiculous reasons why it would be bad.
"I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.
"what if a similar mod comes out but it's better?" - Same thing here, no one is forcing you to "upgrade" and there's plenty of free mods that probably does the same or similar thing.

The paid mod system is customer steered. If you want to pay för lame mods, free ones or just the really ambitious mods go ahead.

92DemonKing wrote: "I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.

You are being short sighted and completely ignore one thing, which is the reason so many people are angry about this. You say there are "over 40k free mods out there". But wait a few years and new games and those free mods for new games won't exist and you have to pay for every single mod.

Which means that if you wanted to use 200 mods you'd have to pay for every one of them, no alternative. make it they each cost 1$, that's 200$ = the vast majority of people cannot afford it = modding community and PC advantage killed of.

That's where this will lead. Spending 60$ for a game, then 30$ per DLC, then 1$ per mod in a game like Skyrim? The cost would go over 800$. Good luck keeping up with that.

The sad and stupid part is that big part of the reason Bethesda sold so many copies of Skyrim was because of the craze over unlimited FREE mods. Take that away and Skyrim is just a game like many others that would have died off in less than a year. So if the paid mods thing becomes standard, companies will effectively be killing off their own free marketing...

Flenzil wrote: There's a lot of people out there that would say that a lot of Bethesda's games are close to unplayable on PC (Crash to Desktops, poorly done textures, getting stuck in rocks etc.). There are mods out there that fix these things, like the Unofficial Skyrim Patch. It seems like Bethesda is content to releasing quite a broken game and just letting other people fix it. Fallout 3 still has these problems and that was released 7 years ago. What if the unofficial patch decided to put the mod behind a paywall? I'd have to pay for a mod to fix the glitches found in the game I just payed for, and Bethesda wants a cut of that money too. And imagine if I wanted to play Skyrim, but found I had to also buy Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion in order to play it?

What about the fact that free mods could be easily stolen and sold on the Steam Workshop? That could discourage people from making free mods in the first place (I think some people have already removed thier mods because of this).

I think that if there was an easily visible, easy-to-use donate button; people would use it. I mean, I could easily get anything on Netflix for free, but I don't because Netflix has made it more convenient to pay, I could get anything that Steam sells for free, but I don't because Steam makes it more convienient to pay. I could get any song I want for free, but I don't because I want to support the artist. If there was simply a big button next to " download " that was a one-click donate button, I would donate to those modders whose mods I use extensively and enjoy. But with the system now I feel like I have to gamble whether the mod is: functional, stable, fun or simply worth the money (much like early-access or kickstarter).

AndreaCristiano wrote: I have 300 mods. If I did have to pay 1 dollar for each one of them I'd quit playing Skyrim in no time.

madpaddy wrote: So you havent donated to any mods and have only bothered to endorse 4 mods in 2 yrs but you hate cry babies who want stuff for free, because hay your not one of them right you pay your way and encourage them by giving the endorsements right...Oh wait.

jet4571 wrote: Going to offer him some burn cream madpaddy? I think he may need some now.

headlesswonder wrote: Your notion that the concerns which have been voiced regarding this debacle are being issued by "all of the crybabies that expect everything for free" is ignorant, at best. Many well-known modders have made very clear that they will not take part in it for various reasons. Do they fit your image of crybabies who just want to get everything for free? They're the ones creating the mods and are refusing to participate in something that they feel will ultimately taint the spirit of the community.

As I mentioned in a more general post, perhaps coming from an old-school mod community mentality contributes to my opposition of charging for mods. I was one of the more well-known modders for Morrowind. I also assisted a few mods for Oblivion and Skyrim. I worked on projects that took hundreds of hours to complete. I loved it. It was not a job. It was born of love of the game. It was sharing something I love with others who also it. It was commonplace to see great modders offering suggestions, unrequested, to other great modders, and being "paid" in kind because the general mentality was that it was a community of people who shared a common passion. It was possible to accept donations at the time and most of the modders outright refused the notion. I don't begrudge anyone accepting donations (although I was never comfortable doing so, myself), however, outright charging for mods is something I find disgraceful.

In addition to that, complications regarding the selling of others' assets abound, regardless of whether or not the original author is pro or against selling their own content. It isn't even just the blatant theft of another's work which is still readily available. It is that plenty of mods which do not include express wording regarding profit as it was never necessary due to legal issues (and the overall sharing mentality of the community) are stored on many a hard drive even if they have now been removed from future public access. The ramifications of it are far-reaching in terms of good faith in the community.

It was never about greed. This is absolutely greed on the parts of anyone who participates. Everything does not have to be about money. I realize that some feel that modders should be compensated for their "work" which is not in and of itself a negative intention, however, I would like to point out that modding has never been seen as an additional job. For that matter, there are plenty of modders who do still reap the benefits of modding as they are able to build a portfolio in doing so. The exception to that, my opinion, is the potential for the game developer to legitimately purchase a large scale mod for a fair price to include in future games and/or DLC (with credit, to the originator, as well) which would be an amazing opportunity for any talented modder.

What really gets me about your rant is that in the same breath, you condescend to those who are in support of donation buttons rather than fees because they'd "never use it anyway" and immediately admit that you have never done so, yourself. If you were truly concerned for all of us poor, neglected modders rather than just taking the opportunity to behave like a donkey's rear in assuming you understand why such a large chunk of the community is unhappy with this decision, you'd have donated to those of your favorite modders who accept compensation long before now. All talk, no action, isn't that what you said?

Since when is a simple upvote, endorsement, comment singing a mod's praises or a "thank you" not enough for doing something you already love doing? This reminds me of all those little bastards who go door to door in elderly neighborhoods, asking the old folks to pay them $10 for shoveling their walks. Perhaps some younger people don't understand the concept that money should not be the most important thing in everything you do.

At the very least, make note that the opposition is about much more than whiners wanting everything for free.

phantompally76 wrote: PerfectByNature, your glaring hypocrisy is shameful.

PerfectByNature wrote: No you guys are shamefull.. Do you really think mod-authors give a sh*t about endorsement in the end? Endorsements won't keep the author from abandoning mods.

And no i haven't donated and neither have you probably. If you have well done, you're one of the few.

falcor23 wrote: Thats what people are failing to understand this is the digital age EVERYTHING online is free in one form or another and if people don't wanna pay they wont. People just want a way to pay that they don't feel like they are being forced at gun point to pay for something they have gotten for free for 10+ years and have ZERO guarantees that will work or will even be compatible with other paid mods. (other than a shady 24 hour return policy which is laughable at best).

Though I gotta say its nice to see the community stand up and start conversations on this scale about something they feel strongly about, normally is incoherent death threats and pissing contests on steam forums and it fizzles away in a day.

This topic one way or another will change how modding works forever.

Ps. Dark0ne you deserve all the money you can get, you run one helluva site.

92DemonKing wrote: @ PerfectByNature

And you completely ignored any argument brought up and insulted both modders and users at the same time...

gj...

To the OP, I 'd love to see Immersive Armors on the paid section. I could use an extra 110,000 dollars from the subsequent and immediate lawsuit.

You see, while you are on your bashing rant about people being "crybabies" (getting reported for that by the way), you completely forgot to pay attention to the fact that most of the mods out there use content that was made by other people. So instead of coming on here and attacking people for rightfully being angry, why don't you do yourself a favor and actually read current international copyright laws.

[Dreguk]

In response to post #24696144.

ContagiousCure wrote:

That, IMO, it's one of the great problems regarding this system. If not the root of all the problem...

How do I know if what I'm paying for is really worthy? Or, how do I know if what I'm paying for doesn't gonna crash my game or my pc?
I mean, some of us (users and mod developers) cannot afford to pay for something we don't even know if it is going to be good or not. Either for the game experience or just for the fun.
Some of the mods I downloaded are just for experimenting. Then I either unninstall them or post my oppinion and comment on the discussion board. There are times when I trade some words with my friends too.

If we users, and of course you developers, need to pay for something we don't even know if it is going to meet our expectations or solve our problems and there is no way to be refunded... Well, that's some kind of a problem.

[PerfectByNature]

In response to post #24681829. #24686464, #24687639, #24689534, #24690734, #24694409, #24695224, #24696659, #24697089, #24697214, #24702624, #24708044, #24708509, #24714889 are all replies on the same post.

PerfectByNature wrote:

Flenzil wrote: I think it's a bit short-sighted for you to say that you'd gladly pay for mods based on that list. Of course you'd pay for those mods, you've had years of playing with them and seeing how reliable the modders are. I think it's a bit different when it comes to a new modder that you've never heard of who, as far as you know, could take your money and never update the mod if a game update breaks it, or another popular mod is incompatable with it. I think mods, and the quality thereof, are just too volatile to put behind a paywall. I could never trust a mod enough to pay without playing with it for a while first. And what if you buy a mod, say a grass textures mod or something, and then a new grass textures mod comes out that's better than the one you just bought (it has less incompatibilities for instance)? I'll have to pay again for essentially the same mod just so I can play the game without glitches and crashes due to incompatibilities. And how about mods that have pre-requisites? I'll have to buy all the other mods just so I can get the one I want. Pretty soon, I've payed more on the mods than I did on the game itself. I'm all for modders being rearded for their efforts but putting them behind a paywall seems to be the worst way to do it.

PerfectByNature wrote: There's ways for mod-authors to demo their mods.
For example:
Free versions that has one or a few features stripped.
Youtube-mod reviewers.

And how likely do you think it is that a completely unknown modder would be able to earn a living from mods? Not likely. Most modders will have to build their rep up using free mods or really cheap but awesome mods.
Creating weapons & armor packs is one example. And those won't "break" due to a game update.

Most people are just negative because they have to pay, coming up with all sort of ridiculous reasons why it would be bad.
"I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.
"what if a similar mod comes out but it's better?" - Same thing here, no one is forcing you to "upgrade" and there's plenty of free mods that probably does the same or similar thing.

The paid mod system is customer steered. If you want to pay för lame mods, free ones or just the really ambitious mods go ahead.

92DemonKing wrote: "I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.

You are being short sighted and completely ignore one thing, which is the reason so many people are angry about this. You say there are "over 40k free mods out there". But wait a few years and new games and those free mods for new games won't exist and you have to pay for every single mod.

Which means that if you wanted to use 200 mods you'd have to pay for every one of them, no alternative. make it they each cost 1$, that's 200$ = the vast majority of people cannot afford it = modding community and PC advantage killed of.

That's where this will lead. Spending 60$ for a game, then 30$ per DLC, then 1$ per mod in a game like Skyrim? The cost would go over 800$. Good luck keeping up with that.

The sad and stupid part is that big part of the reason Bethesda sold so many copies of Skyrim was because of the craze over unlimited FREE mods. Take that away and Skyrim is just a game like many others that would have died off in less than a year. So if the paid mods thing becomes standard, companies will effectively be killing off their own free marketing...

Flenzil wrote: There's a lot of people out there that would say that a lot of Bethesda's games are close to unplayable on PC (Crash to Desktops, poorly done textures, getting stuck in rocks etc.). There are mods out there that fix these things, like the Unofficial Skyrim Patch. It seems like Bethesda is content to releasing quite a broken game and just letting other people fix it. Fallout 3 still has these problems and that was released 7 years ago. What if the unofficial patch decided to put the mod behind a paywall? I'd have to pay for a mod to fix the glitches found in the game I just payed for, and Bethesda wants a cut of that money too. And imagine if I wanted to play Skyrim, but found I had to also buy Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion in order to play it?

What about the fact that free mods could be easily stolen and sold on the Steam Workshop? That could discourage people from making free mods in the first place (I think some people have already removed thier mods because of this).

I think that if there was an easily visible, easy-to-use donate button; people would use it. I mean, I could easily get anything on Netflix for free, but I don't because Netflix has made it more convenient to pay, I could get anything that Steam sells for free, but I don't because Steam makes it more convienient to pay. I could get any song I want for free, but I don't because I want to support the artist. If there was simply a big button next to " download " that was a one-click donate button, I would donate to those modders whose mods I use extensively and enjoy. But with the system now I feel like I have to gamble whether the mod is: functional, stable, fun or simply worth the money (much like early-access or kickstarter).

AndreaCristiano wrote: I have 300 mods. If I did have to pay 1 dollar for each one of them I'd quit playing Skyrim in no time.

madpaddy wrote: So you havent donated to any mods and have only bothered to endorse 4 mods in 2 yrs but you hate cry babies who want stuff for free, because hay your not one of them right you pay your way and encourage them by giving the endorsements right...Oh wait.

jet4571 wrote: Going to offer him some burn cream madpaddy? I think he may need some now.

headlesswonder wrote: Your notion that the concerns which have been voiced regarding this debacle are being issued by "all of the crybabies that expect everything for free" is ignorant, at best. Many well-known modders have made very clear that they will not take part in it for various reasons. Do they fit your image of crybabies who just want to get everything for free? They're the ones creating the mods and are refusing to participate in something that they feel will ultimately taint the spirit of the community.

As I mentioned in a more general post, perhaps coming from an old-school mod community mentality contributes to my opposition of charging for mods. I was one of the more well-known modders for Morrowind. I also assisted a few mods for Oblivion and Skyrim. I worked on projects that took hundreds of hours to complete. I loved it. It was not a job. It was born of love of the game. It was sharing something I love with others who also it. It was commonplace to see great modders offering suggestions, unrequested, to other great modders, and being "paid" in kind because the general mentality was that it was a community of people who shared a common passion. It was possible to accept donations at the time and most of the modders outright refused the notion. I don't begrudge anyone accepting donations (although I was never comfortable doing so, myself), however, outright charging for mods is something I find disgraceful.

In addition to that, complications regarding the selling of others' assets abound, regardless of whether or not the original author is pro or against selling their own content. It isn't even just the blatant theft of another's work which is still readily available. It is that plenty of mods which do not include express wording regarding profit as it was never necessary due to legal issues (and the overall sharing mentality of the community) are stored on many a hard drive even if they have now been removed from future public access. The ramifications of it are far-reaching in terms of good faith in the community.

It was never about greed. This is absolutely greed on the parts of anyone who participates. Everything does not have to be about money. I realize that some feel that modders should be compensated for their "work" which is not in and of itself a negative intention, however, I would like to point out that modding has never been seen as an additional job. For that matter, there are plenty of modders who do still reap the benefits of modding as they are able to build a portfolio in doing so. The exception to that, my opinion, is the potential for the game developer to legitimately purchase a large scale mod for a fair price to include in future games and/or DLC (with credit, to the originator, as well) which would be an amazing opportunity for any talented modder.

What really gets me about your rant is that in the same breath, you condescend to those who are in support of donation buttons rather than fees because they'd "never use it anyway" and immediately admit that you have never done so, yourself. If you were truly concerned for all of us poor, neglected modders rather than just taking the opportunity to behave like a donkey's rear in assuming you understand why such a large chunk of the community is unhappy with this decision, you'd have donated to those of your favorite modders who accept compensation long before now. All talk, no action, isn't that what you said?

Since when is a simple upvote, endorsement, comment singing a mod's praises or a "thank you" not enough for doing something you already love doing? This reminds me of all those little bastards who go door to door in elderly neighborhoods, asking the old folks to pay them $10 for shoveling their walks. Perhaps some younger people don't understand the concept that money should not be the most important thing in everything you do.

At the very least, make note that the opposition is about much more than whiners wanting everything for free.

phantompally76 wrote: PerfectByNature, your glaring hypocrisy is shameful.

PerfectByNature wrote: No you guys are shamefull.. Do you really think mod-authors give a sh*t about endorsement in the end? Endorsements won't keep the author from abandoning mods.

And no i haven't donated and neither have you probably. If you have well done, you're one of the few.

falcor23 wrote: Thats what people are failing to understand this is the digital age EVERYTHING online is free in one form or another and if people don't wanna pay they wont. People just want a way to pay that they don't feel like they are being forced at gun point to pay for something they have gotten for free for 10+ years and have ZERO guarantees that will work or will even be compatible with other paid mods. (other than a shady 24 hour return policy which is laughable at best).

Though I gotta say its nice to see the community stand up and start conversations on this scale about something they feel strongly about, normally is incoherent death threats and pissing contests on steam forums and it fizzles away in a day.

This topic one way or another will change how modding works forever.

Ps. Dark0ne you deserve all the money you can get, you run one helluva site.

92DemonKing wrote: @ PerfectByNature

And you completely ignored any argument brought up and insulted both modders and users at the same time...

gj...

Mr. Dave wrote: To the OP, I 'd love to see Immersive Armors on the paid section. I could use an extra 110,000 dollars from the subsequent and immediate lawsuit.

You see, while you are on your bashing rant about people being "crybabies" (getting reported for that by the way), you completely forgot to pay attention to the fact that most of the mods out there use content that was made by other people. So instead of coming on here and attacking people for rightfully being angry, why don't you do yourself a favor and actually read current international copyright laws.

@Mr. Dave

"you completely forgot to pay attention to the fact that most of the mods out there use content that was made by other people"

No actually i didn't forget that. You however forgot that multiple authors can sell a mod as a group and split the profits. And if you didn't notice, they were examples of mods i would actually pay for if they were for sale, however they're not. Don't forget to open your eyes the next time your in traffic, otherwise you might hurt yourself. :)

[coolcorey298]

In response to post #24681829. #24686464, #24687639, #24689534, #24690734, #24694409, #24695224, #24696659, #24697089, #24697214, #24702624, #24708044, #24708509, #24714889, #24718764 are all replies on the same post.

PerfectByNature wrote:

Flenzil wrote: I think it's a bit short-sighted for you to say that you'd gladly pay for mods based on that list. Of course you'd pay for those mods, you've had years of playing with them and seeing how reliable the modders are. I think it's a bit different when it comes to a new modder that you've never heard of who, as far as you know, could take your money and never update the mod if a game update breaks it, or another popular mod is incompatable with it. I think mods, and the quality thereof, are just too volatile to put behind a paywall. I could never trust a mod enough to pay without playing with it for a while first. And what if you buy a mod, say a grass textures mod or something, and then a new grass textures mod comes out that's better than the one you just bought (it has less incompatibilities for instance)? I'll have to pay again for essentially the same mod just so I can play the game without glitches and crashes due to incompatibilities. And how about mods that have pre-requisites? I'll have to buy all the other mods just so I can get the one I want. Pretty soon, I've payed more on the mods than I did on the game itself. I'm all for modders being rearded for their efforts but putting them behind a paywall seems to be the worst way to do it.

PerfectByNature wrote: There's ways for mod-authors to demo their mods.
For example:
Free versions that has one or a few features stripped.
Youtube-mod reviewers.

And how likely do you think it is that a completely unknown modder would be able to earn a living from mods? Not likely. Most modders will have to build their rep up using free mods or really cheap but awesome mods.
Creating weapons & armor packs is one example. And those won't "break" due to a game update.

Most people are just negative because they have to pay, coming up with all sort of ridiculous reasons why it would be bad.
"I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.
"what if a similar mod comes out but it's better?" - Same thing here, no one is forcing you to "upgrade" and there's plenty of free mods that probably does the same or similar thing.

The paid mod system is customer steered. If you want to pay för lame mods, free ones or just the really ambitious mods go ahead.

92DemonKing wrote: "I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.

You are being short sighted and completely ignore one thing, which is the reason so many people are angry about this. You say there are "over 40k free mods out there". But wait a few years and new games and those free mods for new games won't exist and you have to pay for every single mod.

Which means that if you wanted to use 200 mods you'd have to pay for every one of them, no alternative. make it they each cost 1$, that's 200$ = the vast majority of people cannot afford it = modding community and PC advantage killed of.

That's where this will lead. Spending 60$ for a game, then 30$ per DLC, then 1$ per mod in a game like Skyrim? The cost would go over 800$. Good luck keeping up with that.

The sad and stupid part is that big part of the reason Bethesda sold so many copies of Skyrim was because of the craze over unlimited FREE mods. Take that away and Skyrim is just a game like many others that would have died off in less than a year. So if the paid mods thing becomes standard, companies will effectively be killing off their own free marketing...

Flenzil wrote: There's a lot of people out there that would say that a lot of Bethesda's games are close to unplayable on PC (Crash to Desktops, poorly done textures, getting stuck in rocks etc.). There are mods out there that fix these things, like the Unofficial Skyrim Patch. It seems like Bethesda is content to releasing quite a broken game and just letting other people fix it. Fallout 3 still has these problems and that was released 7 years ago. What if the unofficial patch decided to put the mod behind a paywall? I'd have to pay for a mod to fix the glitches found in the game I just payed for, and Bethesda wants a cut of that money too. And imagine if I wanted to play Skyrim, but found I had to also buy Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion in order to play it?

What about the fact that free mods could be easily stolen and sold on the Steam Workshop? That could discourage people from making free mods in the first place (I think some people have already removed thier mods because of this).

I think that if there was an easily visible, easy-to-use donate button; people would use it. I mean, I could easily get anything on Netflix for free, but I don't because Netflix has made it more convenient to pay, I could get anything that Steam sells for free, but I don't because Steam makes it more convienient to pay. I could get any song I want for free, but I don't because I want to support the artist. If there was simply a big button next to " download " that was a one-click donate button, I would donate to those modders whose mods I use extensively and enjoy. But with the system now I feel like I have to gamble whether the mod is: functional, stable, fun or simply worth the money (much like early-access or kickstarter).

AndreaCristiano wrote: I have 300 mods. If I did have to pay 1 dollar for each one of them I'd quit playing Skyrim in no time.

madpaddy wrote: So you havent donated to any mods and have only bothered to endorse 4 mods in 2 yrs but you hate cry babies who want stuff for free, because hay your not one of them right you pay your way and encourage them by giving the endorsements right...Oh wait.

jet4571 wrote: Going to offer him some burn cream madpaddy? I think he may need some now.

headlesswonder wrote: Your notion that the concerns which have been voiced regarding this debacle are being issued by "all of the crybabies that expect everything for free" is ignorant, at best. Many well-known modders have made very clear that they will not take part in it for various reasons. Do they fit your image of crybabies who just want to get everything for free? They're the ones creating the mods and are refusing to participate in something that they feel will ultimately taint the spirit of the community.

As I mentioned in a more general post, perhaps coming from an old-school mod community mentality contributes to my opposition of charging for mods. I was one of the more well-known modders for Morrowind. I also assisted a few mods for Oblivion and Skyrim. I worked on projects that took hundreds of hours to complete. I loved it. It was not a job. It was born of love of the game. It was sharing something I love with others who also it. It was commonplace to see great modders offering suggestions, unrequested, to other great modders, and being "paid" in kind because the general mentality was that it was a community of people who shared a common passion. It was possible to accept donations at the time and most of the modders outright refused the notion. I don't begrudge anyone accepting donations (although I was never comfortable doing so, myself), however, outright charging for mods is something I find disgraceful.

In addition to that, complications regarding the selling of others' assets abound, regardless of whether or not the original author is pro or against selling their own content. It isn't even just the blatant theft of another's work which is still readily available. It is that plenty of mods which do not include express wording regarding profit as it was never necessary due to legal issues (and the overall sharing mentality of the community) are stored on many a hard drive even if they have now been removed from future public access. The ramifications of it are far-reaching in terms of good faith in the community.

It was never about greed. This is absolutely greed on the parts of anyone who participates. Everything does not have to be about money. I realize that some feel that modders should be compensated for their "work" which is not in and of itself a negative intention, however, I would like to point out that modding has never been seen as an additional job. For that matter, there are plenty of modders who do still reap the benefits of modding as they are able to build a portfolio in doing so. The exception to that, my opinion, is the potential for the game developer to legitimately purchase a large scale mod for a fair price to include in future games and/or DLC (with credit, to the originator, as well) which would be an amazing opportunity for any talented modder.

What really gets me about your rant is that in the same breath, you condescend to those who are in support of donation buttons rather than fees because they'd "never use it anyway" and immediately admit that you have never done so, yourself. If you were truly concerned for all of us poor, neglected modders rather than just taking the opportunity to behave like a donkey's rear in assuming you understand why such a large chunk of the community is unhappy with this decision, you'd have donated to those of your favorite modders who accept compensation long before now. All talk, no action, isn't that what you said?

Since when is a simple upvote, endorsement, comment singing a mod's praises or a "thank you" not enough for doing something you already love doing? This reminds me of all those little bastards who go door to door in elderly neighborhoods, asking the old folks to pay them $10 for shoveling their walks. Perhaps some younger people don't understand the concept that money should not be the most important thing in everything you do.

At the very least, make note that the opposition is about much more than whiners wanting everything for free.

phantompally76 wrote: PerfectByNature, your glaring hypocrisy is shameful.

PerfectByNature wrote: No you guys are shamefull.. Do you really think mod-authors give a sh*t about endorsement in the end? Endorsements won't keep the author from abandoning mods.

And no i haven't donated and neither have you probably. If you have well done, you're one of the few.

falcor23 wrote: Thats what people are failing to understand this is the digital age EVERYTHING online is free in one form or another and if people don't wanna pay they wont. People just want a way to pay that they don't feel like they are being forced at gun point to pay for something they have gotten for free for 10+ years and have ZERO guarantees that will work or will even be compatible with other paid mods. (other than a shady 24 hour return policy which is laughable at best).

Though I gotta say its nice to see the community stand up and start conversations on this scale about something they feel strongly about, normally is incoherent death threats and pissing contests on steam forums and it fizzles away in a day.

This topic one way or another will change how modding works forever.

Ps. Dark0ne you deserve all the money you can get, you run one helluva site.

92DemonKing wrote: @ PerfectByNature

And you completely ignored any argument brought up and insulted both modders and users at the same time...

gj...

Mr. Dave wrote: To the OP, I 'd love to see Immersive Armors on the paid section. I could use an extra 110,000 dollars from the subsequent and immediate lawsuit.

You see, while you are on your bashing rant about people being "crybabies" (getting reported for that by the way), you completely forgot to pay attention to the fact that most of the mods out there use content that was made by other people. So instead of coming on here and attacking people for rightfully being angry, why don't you do yourself a favor and actually read current international copyright laws.

PerfectByNature wrote: @Mr. Dave

"you completely forgot to pay attention to the fact that most of the mods out there use content that was made by other people"

No actually i didn't forget that. You however forgot that multiple authors can sell a mod as a group and split the profits. And if you didn't notice, they were examples of mods i would actually pay for if they were for sale, however they're not. Don't forget to open your eyes the next time your in traffic, otherwise you might hurt yourself. :)

there is one mod called floating chair it is $99.99 not even a joke

[silvershade56]

In response to post #24668369. #24672444, #24673424, #24673814, #24674709, #24674954, #24675644, #24676344, #24677329, #24701739 are all replies on the same post.

SharkyBytesz wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: Until you want to use a mod that requires the LATEST version of SkyUI, eh? Eh comrade?

Mrfizzledude wrote: Yeah really I don't know why people are getting so worked up about this whole paying for mods thing, as long as nexus stays free, I could care f*cking less about the steam workshop.

runningwild09 wrote: Exactly. People like OP get too worked up. When it rains, THE SKY IS FALLING! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. When a paid mod gets added but then removed. GAME MODDING IS COMING TO AN END! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Elta1 wrote: @phantompally76 why would it require it? He said that 4.1 will always have the most update MCM files so you do not need to get the latest version.

Chai Pei wrote: runningwild09
Mrfizzledude
You're not really bright ones are you? Now if modders don't start removing stuff from nexus and adding it to paid WS, someone else will do and earn shekels on other peoples work. So to prevent it majority probably going to bend over.

phantompally76 wrote: Elta1, do you honestly believe that?

Do you genuinely, from the bottom of your heart, believe those guys updated SkyUI JUST as a small, temporary cash grab with no intentions of getting rich by becoming the bottleneck that mod users will have to pay through in order to continue using mods in future? Have you not read their smug, arrogant comments regarding this? Are you THAT blind and complacent? Am I getting through to you at all???

Elta1 wrote: Yes, because the SkyUi team have proven to be fair and you you do not have an faith in them you must be blind. And the fact that you would turn away from the team that made Skyrim on PC a thing is just as sad. Look at their record. They have always been there and always been the main names in modding here and elsewhere. And if you are so quick as to throw that trust and faith away well that is your loss. The only issue I have is way Marrdox is handleing it.

Longojing wrote: people can't even aces those mods if they want to develop them. it simply doesn't work. In one word again like total biscuit said as well: logistical nightmare.

Meracos wrote: Interesting that phantom mentions SkyUI as a stumbling block for free mod advancement..
Considering 5.0 it is already available on many torrents and pirate sites..
I have 5.0. and its not even listed on the steam workshop yet..
This whole exercise has only served to rekindle piracy..
It is awe inspiring to behold how much every current steam workshop paid mod is available for free on pirate sites right now..

So how does that stop us Phantom? eh?
Eh comrade?

@Elta1
new features wont be backwards compatible so if a new mod makes use of those new features then it would require the new skyui Edited April 27, 2015 by silvershade56