Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

[Marspoet]

In response to post #24687944. #24694624 is also a reply to the same post.

ManleySteele wrote:

AndreaCristiano wrote: Basically building a new game from scratch! Very very interesting! I always thought a game like Skyrim is the best possible game ever but it had to be rebuild again to address papyrus problems and memory-related problems. Having a more stable game would be just the paradise for a modding comunity.
We could create our own game looking at the manpower displayed in creating DLC-like mods!

I too have been thinking about pursuing this path as a means of escaping Bethesda's increasingly crappy offerings. It's been made very clear by Bethesda since Oblivion that they are most interested in and happiest with developing mediocre games for nine year olds on the game consoles and as far as they (Bethesda) are concerned, the PC gamers can go diddle as a good cash cow should.

What galls me the very most about this situation concerning game mods is that the vast majority of mods I've installed into my Skyrim are meant to fix or otherwise ameliorate flaws and poor design decisions made originally by Bethesda themselves, and now they want to profit on the fixing of their own crap as well? A pox on the lot of them.

Please let me know what engine you choose and why you chose that one. I'm interested.

[Hilda1007]

I have no objection to paying for mods. Some mods are so brilliant the authors deserve something for their hard work and dedication. In fact, the "endorse" system is a bit weak - I want to be able to tell the modders how brilliantly fantastic they have made my gaming experience. (eg Skyfall Estate in Skyrim. Rose Red Manor in Oblivion, to mention just two out of many, many....) But I object to how Steam (and to lesser extent, Bethesda) have climbed on the money bandwagon. My big fear is that as the big boys on the block they will win out to the detriment of modders, gamers and the Nexus community. We're watching this one with bated breathe!

[screweduptonight]

Paying for mods, no way in hell. Forever free till I am cold and dead in the ground, I would encourage free sharing of mods people paid for on Steam in protest. Sorry but I hope Valve suffers for this STUPID decision, I guess I am not going to buy anything more from them on Steam until they reverse this and play what I have.

 

Honestly Valve are a bunch of greedy filthpigs, and they need to realize how hated they are going to become in the modding community.

[Deleted150604User]

In response to post #24681829. #24686464, #24687639, #24689534, #24690734, #24694409, #24695224, #24696659, #24697089, #24697214, #24702624, #24708044, #24708509, #24714889, #24718764, #24719639 are all replies on the same post.

PerfectByNature wrote:

Flenzil wrote: I think it's a bit short-sighted for you to say that you'd gladly pay for mods based on that list. Of course you'd pay for those mods, you've had years of playing with them and seeing how reliable the modders are. I think it's a bit different when it comes to a new modder that you've never heard of who, as far as you know, could take your money and never update the mod if a game update breaks it, or another popular mod is incompatable with it. I think mods, and the quality thereof, are just too volatile to put behind a paywall. I could never trust a mod enough to pay without playing with it for a while first. And what if you buy a mod, say a grass textures mod or something, and then a new grass textures mod comes out that's better than the one you just bought (it has less incompatibilities for instance)? I'll have to pay again for essentially the same mod just so I can play the game without glitches and crashes due to incompatibilities. And how about mods that have pre-requisites? I'll have to buy all the other mods just so I can get the one I want. Pretty soon, I've payed more on the mods than I did on the game itself. I'm all for modders being rearded for their efforts but putting them behind a paywall seems to be the worst way to do it.

PerfectByNature wrote: There's ways for mod-authors to demo their mods.
For example:
Free versions that has one or a few features stripped.
Youtube-mod reviewers.

And how likely do you think it is that a completely unknown modder would be able to earn a living from mods? Not likely. Most modders will have to build their rep up using free mods or really cheap but awesome mods.
Creating weapons & armor packs is one example. And those won't "break" due to a game update.

Most people are just negative because they have to pay, coming up with all sort of ridiculous reasons why it would be bad.
"I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.
"what if a similar mod comes out but it's better?" - Same thing here, no one is forcing you to "upgrade" and there's plenty of free mods that probably does the same or similar thing.

The paid mod system is customer steered. If you want to pay för lame mods, free ones or just the really ambitious mods go ahead.

92DemonKing wrote: "I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.

You are being short sighted and completely ignore one thing, which is the reason so many people are angry about this. You say there are "over 40k free mods out there". But wait a few years and new games and those free mods for new games won't exist and you have to pay for every single mod.

Which means that if you wanted to use 200 mods you'd have to pay for every one of them, no alternative. make it they each cost 1$, that's 200$ = the vast majority of people cannot afford it = modding community and PC advantage killed of.

That's where this will lead. Spending 60$ for a game, then 30$ per DLC, then 1$ per mod in a game like Skyrim? The cost would go over 800$. Good luck keeping up with that.

The sad and stupid part is that big part of the reason Bethesda sold so many copies of Skyrim was because of the craze over unlimited FREE mods. Take that away and Skyrim is just a game like many others that would have died off in less than a year. So if the paid mods thing becomes standard, companies will effectively be killing off their own free marketing...

Flenzil wrote: There's a lot of people out there that would say that a lot of Bethesda's games are close to unplayable on PC (Crash to Desktops, poorly done textures, getting stuck in rocks etc.). There are mods out there that fix these things, like the Unofficial Skyrim Patch. It seems like Bethesda is content to releasing quite a broken game and just letting other people fix it. Fallout 3 still has these problems and that was released 7 years ago. What if the unofficial patch decided to put the mod behind a paywall? I'd have to pay for a mod to fix the glitches found in the game I just payed for, and Bethesda wants a cut of that money too. And imagine if I wanted to play Skyrim, but found I had to also buy Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion in order to play it?

What about the fact that free mods could be easily stolen and sold on the Steam Workshop? That could discourage people from making free mods in the first place (I think some people have already removed thier mods because of this).

I think that if there was an easily visible, easy-to-use donate button; people would use it. I mean, I could easily get anything on Netflix for free, but I don't because Netflix has made it more convenient to pay, I could get anything that Steam sells for free, but I don't because Steam makes it more convienient to pay. I could get any song I want for free, but I don't because I want to support the artist. If there was simply a big button next to " download " that was a one-click donate button, I would donate to those modders whose mods I use extensively and enjoy. But with the system now I feel like I have to gamble whether the mod is: functional, stable, fun or simply worth the money (much like early-access or kickstarter).

AndreaCristiano wrote: I have 300 mods. If I did have to pay 1 dollar for each one of them I'd quit playing Skyrim in no time.

madpaddy wrote: So you havent donated to any mods and have only bothered to endorse 4 mods in 2 yrs but you hate cry babies who want stuff for free, because hay your not one of them right you pay your way and encourage them by giving the endorsements right...Oh wait.

jet4571 wrote: Going to offer him some burn cream madpaddy? I think he may need some now.

headlesswonder wrote: Your notion that the concerns which have been voiced regarding this debacle are being issued by "all of the crybabies that expect everything for free" is ignorant, at best. Many well-known modders have made very clear that they will not take part in it for various reasons. Do they fit your image of crybabies who just want to get everything for free? They're the ones creating the mods and are refusing to participate in something that they feel will ultimately taint the spirit of the community.

As I mentioned in a more general post, perhaps coming from an old-school mod community mentality contributes to my opposition of charging for mods. I was one of the more well-known modders for Morrowind. I also assisted a few mods for Oblivion and Skyrim. I worked on projects that took hundreds of hours to complete. I loved it. It was not a job. It was born of love of the game. It was sharing something I love with others who also it. It was commonplace to see great modders offering suggestions, unrequested, to other great modders, and being "paid" in kind because the general mentality was that it was a community of people who shared a common passion. It was possible to accept donations at the time and most of the modders outright refused the notion. I don't begrudge anyone accepting donations (although I was never comfortable doing so, myself), however, outright charging for mods is something I find disgraceful.

In addition to that, complications regarding the selling of others' assets abound, regardless of whether or not the original author is pro or against selling their own content. It isn't even just the blatant theft of another's work which is still readily available. It is that plenty of mods which do not include express wording regarding profit as it was never necessary due to legal issues (and the overall sharing mentality of the community) are stored on many a hard drive even if they have now been removed from future public access. The ramifications of it are far-reaching in terms of good faith in the community.

It was never about greed. This is absolutely greed on the parts of anyone who participates. Everything does not have to be about money. I realize that some feel that modders should be compensated for their "work" which is not in and of itself a negative intention, however, I would like to point out that modding has never been seen as an additional job. For that matter, there are plenty of modders who do still reap the benefits of modding as they are able to build a portfolio in doing so. The exception to that, my opinion, is the potential for the game developer to legitimately purchase a large scale mod for a fair price to include in future games and/or DLC (with credit, to the originator, as well) which would be an amazing opportunity for any talented modder.

What really gets me about your rant is that in the same breath, you condescend to those who are in support of donation buttons rather than fees because they'd "never use it anyway" and immediately admit that you have never done so, yourself. If you were truly concerned for all of us poor, neglected modders rather than just taking the opportunity to behave like a donkey's rear in assuming you understand why such a large chunk of the community is unhappy with this decision, you'd have donated to those of your favorite modders who accept compensation long before now. All talk, no action, isn't that what you said?

Since when is a simple upvote, endorsement, comment singing a mod's praises or a "thank you" not enough for doing something you already love doing? This reminds me of all those little bastards who go door to door in elderly neighborhoods, asking the old folks to pay them $10 for shoveling their walks. Perhaps some younger people don't understand the concept that money should not be the most important thing in everything you do.

At the very least, make note that the opposition is about much more than whiners wanting everything for free.

phantompally76 wrote: PerfectByNature, your glaring hypocrisy is shameful.

PerfectByNature wrote: No you guys are shamefull.. Do you really think mod-authors give a sh*t about endorsement in the end? Endorsements won't keep the author from abandoning mods.

And no i haven't donated and neither have you probably. If you have well done, you're one of the few.

falcor23 wrote: Thats what people are failing to understand this is the digital age EVERYTHING online is free in one form or another and if people don't wanna pay they wont. People just want a way to pay that they don't feel like they are being forced at gun point to pay for something they have gotten for free for 10+ years and have ZERO guarantees that will work or will even be compatible with other paid mods. (other than a shady 24 hour return policy which is laughable at best).

Though I gotta say its nice to see the community stand up and start conversations on this scale about something they feel strongly about, normally is incoherent death threats and pissing contests on steam forums and it fizzles away in a day.

This topic one way or another will change how modding works forever.

Ps. Dark0ne you deserve all the money you can get, you run one helluva site.

92DemonKing wrote: @ PerfectByNature

And you completely ignored any argument brought up and insulted both modders and users at the same time...

gj...

Mr. Dave wrote: To the OP, I 'd love to see Immersive Armors on the paid section. I could use an extra 110,000 dollars from the subsequent and immediate lawsuit.

You see, while you are on your bashing rant about people being "crybabies" (getting reported for that by the way), you completely forgot to pay attention to the fact that most of the mods out there use content that was made by other people. So instead of coming on here and attacking people for rightfully being angry, why don't you do yourself a favor and actually read current international copyright laws.

PerfectByNature wrote: @Mr. Dave

"you completely forgot to pay attention to the fact that most of the mods out there use content that was made by other people"

No actually i didn't forget that. You however forgot that multiple authors can sell a mod as a group and split the profits. And if you didn't notice, they were examples of mods i would actually pay for if they were for sale, however they're not. Don't forget to open your eyes the next time your in traffic, otherwise you might hurt yourself. :)

coolcorey298 wrote: there is one mod called floating chair it is $99.99 not even a joke

So why is it that despite showing glaring idiocy and density, you think you get to make shots like you won an argument? I think you should make sure next time you're in traffic that it's not a schizoid illusion like the point you were trying to make.

[Cworth]

Well the petition worked and Valve/Bethesda have removed the option for paid for mods

 

https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop/u/10645665

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-has-removed-paid-mods-functionality-from-steam-workshop/

[headlesswonder]

In response to post #24681829. #24686464, #24687639, #24689534, #24690734, #24694409, #24695224, #24696659, #24697089, #24697214, #24702624, #24708044, #24708509, #24714889, #24718764, #24719639, #24730014 are all replies on the same post.

PerfectByNature wrote:

Flenzil wrote: I think it's a bit short-sighted for you to say that you'd gladly pay for mods based on that list. Of course you'd pay for those mods, you've had years of playing with them and seeing how reliable the modders are. I think it's a bit different when it comes to a new modder that you've never heard of who, as far as you know, could take your money and never update the mod if a game update breaks it, or another popular mod is incompatable with it. I think mods, and the quality thereof, are just too volatile to put behind a paywall. I could never trust a mod enough to pay without playing with it for a while first. And what if you buy a mod, say a grass textures mod or something, and then a new grass textures mod comes out that's better than the one you just bought (it has less incompatibilities for instance)? I'll have to pay again for essentially the same mod just so I can play the game without glitches and crashes due to incompatibilities. And how about mods that have pre-requisites? I'll have to buy all the other mods just so I can get the one I want. Pretty soon, I've payed more on the mods than I did on the game itself. I'm all for modders being rearded for their efforts but putting them behind a paywall seems to be the worst way to do it.

PerfectByNature wrote: There's ways for mod-authors to demo their mods.
For example:
Free versions that has one or a few features stripped.
Youtube-mod reviewers.

And how likely do you think it is that a completely unknown modder would be able to earn a living from mods? Not likely. Most modders will have to build their rep up using free mods or really cheap but awesome mods.
Creating weapons & armor packs is one example. And those won't "break" due to a game update.

Most people are just negative because they have to pay, coming up with all sort of ridiculous reasons why it would be bad.
"I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.
"what if a similar mod comes out but it's better?" - Same thing here, no one is forcing you to "upgrade" and there's plenty of free mods that probably does the same or similar thing.

The paid mod system is customer steered. If you want to pay för lame mods, free ones or just the really ambitious mods go ahead.

92DemonKing wrote: "I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.

You are being short sighted and completely ignore one thing, which is the reason so many people are angry about this. You say there are "over 40k free mods out there". But wait a few years and new games and those free mods for new games won't exist and you have to pay for every single mod.

Which means that if you wanted to use 200 mods you'd have to pay for every one of them, no alternative. make it they each cost 1$, that's 200$ = the vast majority of people cannot afford it = modding community and PC advantage killed of.

That's where this will lead. Spending 60$ for a game, then 30$ per DLC, then 1$ per mod in a game like Skyrim? The cost would go over 800$. Good luck keeping up with that.

The sad and stupid part is that big part of the reason Bethesda sold so many copies of Skyrim was because of the craze over unlimited FREE mods. Take that away and Skyrim is just a game like many others that would have died off in less than a year. So if the paid mods thing becomes standard, companies will effectively be killing off their own free marketing...

Flenzil wrote: There's a lot of people out there that would say that a lot of Bethesda's games are close to unplayable on PC (Crash to Desktops, poorly done textures, getting stuck in rocks etc.). There are mods out there that fix these things, like the Unofficial Skyrim Patch. It seems like Bethesda is content to releasing quite a broken game and just letting other people fix it. Fallout 3 still has these problems and that was released 7 years ago. What if the unofficial patch decided to put the mod behind a paywall? I'd have to pay for a mod to fix the glitches found in the game I just payed for, and Bethesda wants a cut of that money too. And imagine if I wanted to play Skyrim, but found I had to also buy Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion in order to play it?

What about the fact that free mods could be easily stolen and sold on the Steam Workshop? That could discourage people from making free mods in the first place (I think some people have already removed thier mods because of this).

I think that if there was an easily visible, easy-to-use donate button; people would use it. I mean, I could easily get anything on Netflix for free, but I don't because Netflix has made it more convenient to pay, I could get anything that Steam sells for free, but I don't because Steam makes it more convienient to pay. I could get any song I want for free, but I don't because I want to support the artist. If there was simply a big button next to " download " that was a one-click donate button, I would donate to those modders whose mods I use extensively and enjoy. But with the system now I feel like I have to gamble whether the mod is: functional, stable, fun or simply worth the money (much like early-access or kickstarter).

AndreaCristiano wrote: I have 300 mods. If I did have to pay 1 dollar for each one of them I'd quit playing Skyrim in no time.

madpaddy wrote: So you havent donated to any mods and have only bothered to endorse 4 mods in 2 yrs but you hate cry babies who want stuff for free, because hay your not one of them right you pay your way and encourage them by giving the endorsements right...Oh wait.

jet4571 wrote: Going to offer him some burn cream madpaddy? I think he may need some now.

headlesswonder wrote: Your notion that the concerns which have been voiced regarding this debacle are being issued by "all of the crybabies that expect everything for free" is ignorant, at best. Many well-known modders have made very clear that they will not take part in it for various reasons. Do they fit your image of crybabies who just want to get everything for free? They're the ones creating the mods and are refusing to participate in something that they feel will ultimately taint the spirit of the community.

As I mentioned in a more general post, perhaps coming from an old-school mod community mentality contributes to my opposition of charging for mods. I was one of the more well-known modders for Morrowind. I also assisted a few mods for Oblivion and Skyrim. I worked on projects that took hundreds of hours to complete. I loved it. It was not a job. It was born of love of the game. It was sharing something I love with others who also it. It was commonplace to see great modders offering suggestions, unrequested, to other great modders, and being "paid" in kind because the general mentality was that it was a community of people who shared a common passion. It was possible to accept donations at the time and most of the modders outright refused the notion. I don't begrudge anyone accepting donations (although I was never comfortable doing so, myself), however, outright charging for mods is something I find disgraceful.

In addition to that, complications regarding the selling of others' assets abound, regardless of whether or not the original author is pro or against selling their own content. It isn't even just the blatant theft of another's work which is still readily available. It is that plenty of mods which do not include express wording regarding profit as it was never necessary due to legal issues (and the overall sharing mentality of the community) are stored on many a hard drive even if they have now been removed from future public access. The ramifications of it are far-reaching in terms of good faith in the community.

It was never about greed. This is absolutely greed on the parts of anyone who participates. Everything does not have to be about money. I realize that some feel that modders should be compensated for their "work" which is not in and of itself a negative intention, however, I would like to point out that modding has never been seen as an additional job. For that matter, there are plenty of modders who do still reap the benefits of modding as they are able to build a portfolio in doing so. The exception to that, my opinion, is the potential for the game developer to legitimately purchase a large scale mod for a fair price to include in future games and/or DLC (with credit, to the originator, as well) which would be an amazing opportunity for any talented modder.

What really gets me about your rant is that in the same breath, you condescend to those who are in support of donation buttons rather than fees because they'd "never use it anyway" and immediately admit that you have never done so, yourself. If you were truly concerned for all of us poor, neglected modders rather than just taking the opportunity to behave like a donkey's rear in assuming you understand why such a large chunk of the community is unhappy with this decision, you'd have donated to those of your favorite modders who accept compensation long before now. All talk, no action, isn't that what you said?

Since when is a simple upvote, endorsement, comment singing a mod's praises or a "thank you" not enough for doing something you already love doing? This reminds me of all those little bastards who go door to door in elderly neighborhoods, asking the old folks to pay them $10 for shoveling their walks. Perhaps some younger people don't understand the concept that money should not be the most important thing in everything you do.

At the very least, make note that the opposition is about much more than whiners wanting everything for free.

phantompally76 wrote: PerfectByNature, your glaring hypocrisy is shameful.

PerfectByNature wrote: No you guys are shamefull.. Do you really think mod-authors give a sh*t about endorsement in the end? Endorsements won't keep the author from abandoning mods.

And no i haven't donated and neither have you probably. If you have well done, you're one of the few.

falcor23 wrote: Thats what people are failing to understand this is the digital age EVERYTHING online is free in one form or another and if people don't wanna pay they wont. People just want a way to pay that they don't feel like they are being forced at gun point to pay for something they have gotten for free for 10+ years and have ZERO guarantees that will work or will even be compatible with other paid mods. (other than a shady 24 hour return policy which is laughable at best).

Though I gotta say its nice to see the community stand up and start conversations on this scale about something they feel strongly about, normally is incoherent death threats and pissing contests on steam forums and it fizzles away in a day.

This topic one way or another will change how modding works forever.

Ps. Dark0ne you deserve all the money you can get, you run one helluva site.

92DemonKing wrote: @ PerfectByNature

And you completely ignored any argument brought up and insulted both modders and users at the same time...

gj...

Mr. Dave wrote: To the OP, I 'd love to see Immersive Armors on the paid section. I could use an extra 110,000 dollars from the subsequent and immediate lawsuit.

You see, while you are on your bashing rant about people being "crybabies" (getting reported for that by the way), you completely forgot to pay attention to the fact that most of the mods out there use content that was made by other people. So instead of coming on here and attacking people for rightfully being angry, why don't you do yourself a favor and actually read current international copyright laws.

PerfectByNature wrote: @Mr. Dave

"you completely forgot to pay attention to the fact that most of the mods out there use content that was made by other people"

No actually i didn't forget that. You however forgot that multiple authors can sell a mod as a group and split the profits. And if you didn't notice, they were examples of mods i would actually pay for if they were for sale, however they're not. Don't forget to open your eyes the next time your in traffic, otherwise you might hurt yourself. :)

coolcorey298 wrote: there is one mod called floating chair it is $99.99 not even a joke

The_Funktasm wrote: So why is it that despite showing glaring idiocy and density, you think you get to make shots like you won an argument? I think you should make sure next time you're in traffic that it's not a schizoid illusion like the point you were trying to make.

"You however forgot that multiple authors can sell a mod as a group and split the profits."

The point that you (seemingly intentionally) miss is just how many mods are created using assets from multiple authors who may or may not wish to participate in the selling of their content. Considering how many modders have voiced their strong opposition to the principle of it, it's fair to say they would be furious when they found that someone had sold a mod that contained their assets, not because they didn't get a cut, but because (let's see again if you can grasp the concept) they do not agree with the principle of monetizing mods.

For that matter, please don't speak for mod authors. For most the vast majority of us, simple thanks (or endorsements) are more than enough payment for doing something we are passionate about.

That having been said, I guess you can get your clicking finger ready if donation options become available for your favorite mods, huh?

http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-has-removed-paid-mods-functionality-from-steam-workshop/

Time will tell what the lasting effect will be within the community. Edited April 28, 2015 by headlesswonder

[Deleted133263User]

Its dead

https://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218

 

Removing Payment Feature From Skyrim Workshop

28 APRIL - ALDEN

We're going to remove the payment feature from the Skyrim workshop. For anyone who spent money on a mod, we'll be refunding you the complete amount. We talked to the team at Bethesda and they agree.

We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing. We've been shipping many features over the years aimed at allowing community creators to receive a share of the rewards, and in the past, they've been received well. It's obvious now that this case is different.

To help you understand why we thought this was a good idea, our main goals were to allow mod makers the opportunity to work on their mods full time if they wanted to, and to encourage developers to provide better support to their mod communities. We thought this would result in better mods for everyone, both free & paid. We wanted more great mods becoming great products, like Dota, Counter-strike, DayZ, and Killing Floor, and we wanted that to happen organically for any mod maker who wanted to take a shot at it.

But we underestimated the differences between our previously successful revenue sharing models, and the addition of paid mods to Skyrim's workshop. We understand our own game's communities pretty well, but stepping into an established, years old modding community in Skyrim was probably not the right place to start iterating. We think this made us miss the mark pretty badly, even though we believe there's a useful feature somewhere here.

Now that you've backed a dump truck of feedback onto our inboxes, we'll be chewing through that, but if you have any further thoughts let us know.

 

 

And the paywall is empty

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=72850&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems&days=7&requiredflags%5B%5D=paiditems

Edited April 27, 2015 by Guest

[DCWillis]

In response to post #24730424.

Cworth wrote:

Thanks for the links.

"We have a long history with modding, dating back to 2002 with The Elder Scrolls Construction Set," it wrote in a new Bethesda Blog post. "It’s our belief that our games become something much more with the promise of making it your own." There are downsides: The availability of mods is one of the reasons Oblivion was re-rated from T to M, "costing us millions of dollars," it continued. Even so, "while others in the industry went away from it, we pushed more toward it."

The fact that the game can be modded boosted sales so Bethesda is out of touch with that statement. The lack of a graphics overhaul cost them on Oblivion not mods. Besides Skyrim probably should not have been rated teen at any rate. Lets face it the game is a medieval version of GTA.

I bought Morrowind and Oblivion just in case Skywind etc... actually get released. Edited April 28, 2015 by DCWillis

[ManleySteele]

In response to post #24687944. #24694624, #24722859 are all replies on the same post.

ManleySteele wrote:

AndreaCristiano wrote: Basically building a new game from scratch! Very very interesting! I always thought a game like Skyrim is the best possible game ever but it had to be rebuild again to address papyrus problems and memory-related problems. Having a more stable game would be just the paradise for a modding comunity.
We could create our own game looking at the manpower displayed in creating DLC-like mods!

Marspoet wrote: I too have been thinking about pursuing this path as a means of escaping Bethesda's increasingly crappy offerings. It's been made very clear by Bethesda since Oblivion that they are most interested in and happiest with developing mediocre games for nine year olds on the game consoles and as far as they (Bethesda) are concerned, the PC gamers can go diddle as a good cash cow should.

What galls me the very most about this situation concerning game mods is that the vast majority of mods I've installed into my Skyrim are meant to fix or otherwise ameliorate flaws and poor design decisions made originally by Bethesda themselves, and now they want to profit on the fixing of their own crap as well? A pox on the lot of them.

Please let me know what engine you choose and why you chose that one. I'm interested.

Right now I'm downloading Foliage packs for Unreal Engine 4. I chose it because I have some small experience with it. I'll have to update my Visual Studio in order to do any scripting but that was due to happen anyway. The other reason I chose Unreal is because you can get the source.

Once I'm up and running in Unreal Engine 4, I'll probably take a subscription to Cryengine, as well. Nothing quite like a direct comparison to focus your choices.

Cryengine has one advantage, in that so long as you never charge for the game, you never pay either, unless you continue your subscription.

[ContagiousCure]

In response to post #24696144. #24716439 is also a reply to the same post.

ContagiousCure wrote:

Dreguk wrote: That, IMO, it's one of the great problems regarding this system. If not the root of all the problem...

How do I know if what I'm paying for is really worthy? Or, how do I know if what I'm paying for doesn't gonna crash my game or my pc?
I mean, some of us (users and mod developers) cannot afford to pay for something we don't even know if it is going to be good or not. Either for the game experience or just for the fun.
Some of the mods I downloaded are just for experimenting. Then I either unninstall them or post my oppinion and comment on the discussion board. There are times when I trade some words with my friends too.

If we users, and of course you developers, need to pay for something we don't even know if it is going to meet our expectations or solve our problems and there is no way to be refunded... Well, that's some kind of a problem.

Most definitely. A lot of mod authors release alphas and even pre-alphas for players to playtest or provide feedback or help with coding etc. I loved that about the modding community, because it was just everyone working together to improve the game or to make a shared vision of the game come true. Edited April 28, 2015 by ContagiousCure