Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[FillipeMattos]

RIP Nexus Mod =( Edited April 26, 2015 by FillipeMattos

[JakeDragon555]

In response to post #24682284. #24682924, #24688774, #24689099 are all replies on the same post.

Acidbuk wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: Good points. What I am trying to find out is where the morality, the respect in all of this.

I asked a question earlier but I think it got lost among the longer posts.

When the first Beth sdk was released was it just a big TOC or was there a friendly dialouge between the developer and community?

My reason for asking is becasue the way that the pay for mods has been rolled out is very cruel to the authors who made them because they made them out of the good will and love of games, with I imagine the blessing of Beth... I mean they have had some 10 years to take legal action.

My point is that this is a nasty way to intrduce their customers to the developing world of digital copyright. Why is there no communication from them? Why not talk to their audiences like adults as let's face it, most of us saw something like this was inevitable. But why oh why so aggressively? Or just plain clumsy??

Acidbuk wrote: Bethesda has a history of just dropping the creation-kit with an EULA that when you crunch down the legal speak boils to "Go Nuts. Just don't charge anyone for it". which is standard fare for most SDK's from pretty much any Developer that puts one out. Oh I agree with you, this is an absolutely brutal way to introduce a community that has co-operated for years, to the concept of digital copyright and licensing. licensing is not something anyone really wants to do, its one of those necessary evils which come part and parcel of Software development and its amazingly awesome that as a community we (collectively Users and Creators) have been able to avoid using them, instead using an informal "Please don't steal my stuff just ask if you want to use it" unfortunately as this moves forward, we are almost certainly going to see the term "licensing" as things formalise up between paid and Free mods and what can and cannot be used. I suspect Bethesda will keep quiet and ride out the storm of malcontent until things dye down, then they'll come out with some PR speak about 'We are Bethesda value your input on the recent opportunities for monetization of mods, and we are listening to your feed back and moving forward together with the community'

As for why now? that I couldn't tell you., I would kind of get it if they did this for Fallout 4 or TES-6 whenever that comes out because your dealing with a blank slate. but injecting this into an already vibrant and established ecosystem? is like introducing an invasive plant species. Everyone is scrambling - I really have Sympathy for Robin/Dark0ne right now, Guy had to cancel a holiday to deal with the fallout (no pun intended) from this, between Mod authors taking their mods down to migrate to the workshop, other mod authors scrambling to take their mods down because they are afraid someone will take their work and put IT on the workshop for money as their own (DMCA's are no easy thing), and users trying to download as many mods as they can in panic in case their favourite mods go Pay-Wall. its got to be just a little bit insane, investing all that time and money in the infrastructure upgrade was forward thinking. just not in the way he would have liked I guess.

I do find Valves/Bethesda TOC's morally questionable, in particular how its al-edged Chesko was told by a Valve employee that it was okay to use someone else's free content and include that and charge of it and not have to ask any permission what so-ever, that is not Chesko fault. However I find the concept of Early Access Mods Morally dubious - Early access it and of itself is tittering on the brink, paying for Early Access mods is so far down the slippery slope that I doubt you could even see the top any more.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think they did it before the realease of the new games so all this stuff thats happening now will have (in their hopeful opinion) died down by then.

Sorry posted in the wrong place Edited April 26, 2015 by Jake_Dragon

[Deleted3507349User]

For those that are unhappy with this whole paid fiasco, aim your displeasure at Bethesda and their parent company Zenimax. While Steam is certainly a substantial part of it, at the end of the day all they are is a DRM-based content distributor. Steam can do nothing with Bethesda software without Bethesda's express permission.

 

Bethesda's software belongs in toto to Bethesda.

Any mods created for Bethesda's software belong in toto to Bethesda, per the terms of the Creation Kit EULA.

 

http://store.steampowered.com/eula/eula_202480

 

It's their baby. Notice that we have not heard anything from Bethesda except for the initial announcement that this was a now a thing? Whatever else may be said about Gabe Newell and Steam, Mr. Newell did in fact make an attempt to clarify/engage in PR/conduct damage control (outside of normal business hours, mind you).

[JakeDragon555]

after 1529 hours of play, I think if it comes down to paying for a mod I will do without or stop playing, its been a great amount of fun and I have gotten more enjoyment out of Skyrim than any other game I have ever owned but I have paid enough and if its not a Huge DLC then I will not buy it.

Having been around games for a long time 20+ year I hate being stung when I buy a game then have to pay as I play or I cant enjoy it as much as I should having already payed entry fee.

 

I wish you well and hope it works out for everyone.

Have a great life!!

 

Jake

[FillipeMattos]

Bethesda is the beneficiary of all this, will continue profiting from a 2003 game because of the work of modders who only receive 25% of the combined value of sales. The modders deserve more than that due to creativity and the time they use to devote to work. If to charge by copyright, then it is better to leave it for free, because depending on sales 25% can be considered a pittance. If a product is sold for $ 15 you get 25% of this amount and 75% goes to the companies. Do the math and you'll see a trifle that will receive. Edited April 26, 2015 by FillipeMattos

[Deleted3507349User]

In response to post #24687539. #24689299, #24689414 are all replies on the same post.

bigd4450 wrote:

Lordkabal26 wrote: Modders shouldn't be allowed to lock stuff behind paywalls plain and simple. Instead they should be encouraged to provide benefits to donators. Early access to new versions of a mod before the non-donators for example could be one way to encourage donations without dealing a potential death blow to the modding community in the long term (which is what paywalls will do) especially if Bethesda decides that for FO4 and TES6 that ALL mods have to be released on the paid workshop (that would cause the price of the game to go from the cost of the game and official DLC to skyrocket depending on how many mods that you use, and some people use hundreds of mods).

Fowldragon wrote: Excellent points
. Take ANY mod, what percentage is original? Then too, is the modder who engages in PULP modding.One modder on STEAM is known for female follower mods..every 3 months or so, he regurgitates another CLONE.

And yet, this GUY creates something (however repetitive) that kept some people playing and kept making money.

What about the guy here on the Nexus who released textures one at a time?

[Psijonica]

In response to post #24687319. #24687789 is also a reply to the same post.

harhar1011 wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: 119,756 signatures as of now.
I have it book marked and look in on it every now and then.

=== Edit ===
And here's a link to the petition in case anyone's been living under a rock and hasn't seen it.

I would not start to think that this is a done deal. That petition is going to need MILLIONS of signatures to have any effect at all. When it gets to 250,000 then we are getting somewhere. That is a start. 100,000 signatures is really not going to stop a corporation.

Still it is a promising start. However look at the numbers; how many people have purchased mods of of Steam during that time? Not just for Skyrim... total sales for the last 3 days. Are sales increasing? We need to watch the numbers over a period of time. 48 hours is just not enough time to get a real good picture of where we stand.

It is a good start but from what I am feeling on these boards and elsewhere it seems the youger generation is ok with pay-for-mods and the older generation thinks it is a terrible idea. Where is the money? With the kids... I am not that hopeful but I really hope I am wrong. Edited April 26, 2015 by Psijonica

[nekollx]

 

In response to post #24687539. #24689299 is also a reply to the same post.

 

 

 

bigd4450 wrote:

Lordkabal26 wrote: Modders shouldn't be allowed to lock stuff behind paywalls plain and simple. Instead they should be encouraged to provide benefits to donators. Early access to new versions of a mod before the non-donators for example could be one way to encourage donations without dealing a potential death blow to the modding community in the long term (which is what paywalls will do) especially if Bethesda decides that for FO4 and TES6 that ALL mods have to be released on the paid workshop (that would cause the price of the game to go from the cost of the game and official DLC to skyrocket depending on how many mods that you use, and some people use hundreds of mods).

Excellent points

. Take ANY mod, what percentage is original? Then too, is the modder who engages in PULP modding.One modder on STEAM is known for female follower mods..every 3 months or so, he regurgitates another CLONE.

 

And yet, this GUY creates something (however repetitive) that kept some people playing and kept making money.

 

it's a very simple concept

 

your making money OFFCIALLY, not via donation and kindness of heart to a person but for a SPECIFIC item. LEgally Bethsoft/Zenimax has every right to sue your pants off and take your house for making money off their IP. By giving them a cut they are making you a offical 3rd (4th?) party sub developer. But sure if you want to avoid the leval hot water go on and make a mod for Skyrim. Just keep in mind

 

You can't use any of Skyrims Scripts, assets (voces, models, textures, quests, etc), or the CK.

 

If you can do that AND make a decent mod they you DESERVE some of my money.

 

The real issue isn't if Bethsoft and Valve (who are hosting it, in all honestly Dark0ne COULD ask every mod maker to pay a fee to post a mod to cover the hosting costs and bandwidth remember, clearly Valve has taken that route and has every right to) deserves a cut it should be more about how big a cut as host/IP owner they deserve vs the content creator.

 

It should be noted that the Havoc engin used by Fallout-Skyrim is a 3rd party Bethsoft liscense and THEY tried to sue Bethsoft for not using THEIR IP right, and Bethsoft shot them down (though this means they soured their relations so i doubt Fo4 will use Havok), i want you to let that sink in.

 

Bethsoft beat Havok in a court room, and you want to make money off your skyrim mod?

 

Hope your Scrouge McDuck cause i'd love to see that court case.

[Woobisan]

ESO failed so Bethesda needs to make up for it some other way, so why not a game that came out in 2011. Sounds like a legit idea!! Anyway i though EA was underhanded but damn this is up there with major stupidity.

[mALX1]

In response to post #24679789. #24680359, #24680884, #24680909, #24681594, #24683019, #24683494, #24686649, #24686714, #24687229, #24689004 are all replies on the same post.

GhostAgent wrote:

Welewa wrote: Personally, I like this idea. I would endorse it :D and I would donate to my favorite modders as a show of support and appreciation.

bigdeano89 wrote: A "would you like to donate?" popup has already came up on my download page on a few mods today, that made me think about donating, which I did! If you put the idea into peoples heads they will do it.

TKHBMVP wrote: I like this and I'm happy Dark0ne has already implemented the popup note to notice users about the donation feature here on Nexus.

mALX1 wrote:
These are some fantastic ideas. I would also like to see a donate button on that row of buttons for the Endorsements and Votes - so the person who comes back to endorse sees the donate option then; while they are endorsing and commenting the mod.

(To me, it is a better option than the one popping up on download before you even know if you like the mod or if it works).

secondmoto381 wrote: This idea is the key, it would help bring some modders who have already stated that they are moving to the Workshop for the money back to the Nexus. Not to mention that tons more people would donate on the "merit system".

SjoertJansen wrote: @mALX1

The donate button is already there, next to the vote button.

And I generally like the ideas, Good ideas. The popup is already there as well. Just activate the feature in your edit attributes.

Elta1 wrote: Wow... I think that is very cool. Trying to make a system more on promoting donation by not requiring it. I think he is on to something.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ GhostAgent

Your intellectual property has been Endorsed!

AverageZombie wrote: This is a great idea if Nexus was a primary distributor but this has potential political ramifications with Valve and Bethesda considering they now stand to make money off of this. Rolling out a system to endorse donations on this site means Nexus would be pressuring mod authors to create content here (which is good, don't get me wrong) instead of on the Steam Workshop to get their income which can be seen as attempting to strong arm Bethesda and Valve. Doing that any time soon could damage relations considering how much public opinion would be swayed.

It's like a pendulum that's been lifted by with a string that represents change. If he enrolls a new system of income it cuts the string granting immediate relief of pressure but causes the public opinion to sway heavily and without direction. So in effect, cutting the string create a much more volatile situation.

anonownsyou wrote: This is good. Yes.

Ha! I just saw that, Thank you!