Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[Tigon3rd]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264, #24707439, #24708649, #24709434, #24709769 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member, and it just puzzles me as to why you would go on about how you look so fondly on it as family member while you are being abused by the people you are going to be working for.

And there was me spending my weekend working on ways in which I may help this community fight for mod creator protection.

I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to be so rude.

EDIT: I realise this is not Chesko's fault. It's just it really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and being some one of such influence maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Dark0ne wrote: Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

CptnBrryCrnch wrote: I love your mods.

I really really really love your mods.

I will totally pay for your material when you are ready for it.

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote: There is nothing to amend for , He was just involved in a shitstorm he didn't deserve .
Personally I see nothing wrong with eventually the decision to ask for a monetization for the hard work done by some people .
And I would like to underline that Chesko works as well as the one of some very few selected others, stand above the average random mod and most often required "paid" tools and content that ends up in the making of those professional level free mods.
So a small monetary incentive is not really for greed and with a 25% is not really goingto make anyone a living , but might end up eventually paying certain expenses in some cases .
Despite it incentivates only minor small mods and not large and DLC sized ones .

riverreveal wrote: Chesko, right now you might feel like there are a lot of people against you, but in time people will look at you as being the first person to take on Valve and Bethesda and their ill-thought out policy changes.

Sure things could have been handled better, but thats life, you are trying to do the right thing now and that makes you a good person.

Dont give up modding, you are way too good to not be around.

I was really hurting when I read what had happened to you, and that they just threw you to the wolves like that, shame on them.

Hope to see you back in the future sometime.

[mannygt]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264, #24707439, #24708649, #24709434, #24709769, #24709849 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member, and it just puzzles me as to why you would go on about how you look so fondly on it as family member while you are being abused by the people you are going to be working for.

And there was me spending my weekend working on ways in which I may help this community fight for mod creator protection.

I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to be so rude.

EDIT: I realise this is not Chesko's fault. It's just it really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and being some one of such influence maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Dark0ne wrote: Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

CptnBrryCrnch wrote: I love your mods.

I really really really love your mods.

I will totally pay for your material when you are ready for it.

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote: There is nothing to amend for , He was just involved in a shitstorm he didn't deserve .
Personally I see nothing wrong with eventually the decision to ask for a monetization for the hard work done by some people .
And I would like to underline that Chesko works as well as the one of some very few selected others, stand above the average random mod and most often required "paid" tools and content that ends up in the making of those professional level free mods.
So a small monetary incentive is not really for greed and with a 25% is not really goingto make anyone a living , but might end up eventually paying certain expenses in some cases .
Despite it incentivates only minor small mods and not large and DLC sized ones .

riverreveal wrote: Chesko, right now you might feel like there are a lot of people against you, but in time people will look at you as being the first person to take on Valve and Bethesda and their ill-thought out policy changes.

Sure things could have been handled better, but thats life, you are trying to do the right thing now and that makes you a good person.

Dont give up modding, you are way too good to not be around.

Tigon_3rd wrote: I was really hurting when I read what had happened to you, and that they just threw you to the wolves like that, shame on them.

Hope to see you back in the future sometime.

I would like to see that everything is going to be calmed. The "paid mods" issue was a shock for all of us but there are no reasons to threat (even death threat, that's disgusting) the modders who started to sell their mods. It's only a matter of choice and I'm pretty sure that you have to respect who have started to sell the mods, even if the author was one of your preferred author. You cannot go in rage for this thing. You may protest against Valve and/or Bethesda but not the choices made by the modders. Your preferred modder has started to sell mods? Well, you have two choice: ignore him or pay him. End of story, no threat, death threats and insults. Move on, find other mods which are free. Mine are free, other great modders give free mods. But I'm not angry with who started to sell their mods. The Nexus is the place for free mods: open the page mod, click download, enable and you're ready to play. What do you want more? Chesko was thrown in a vortex that was too big for him. He don't deserve this treatment, neither the modders who want to sell their own mod. He needs to relax, and Dark0ne too. You must relax too. We must relax. This storm will ends soon.

[LangleyBoy]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264, #24707439, #24708649, #24709434, #24709769, #24709849, #24709869 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member, and it just puzzles me as to why you would go on about how you look so fondly on it as family member while you are being abused by the people you are going to be working for.

And there was me spending my weekend working on ways in which I may help this community fight for mod creator protection.

I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to be so rude.

EDIT: I realise this is not Chesko's fault. It's just it really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and being some one of such influence maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Dark0ne wrote: Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

CptnBrryCrnch wrote: I love your mods.

I really really really love your mods.

I will totally pay for your material when you are ready for it.

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote: There is nothing to amend for , He was just involved in a shitstorm he didn't deserve .
Personally I see nothing wrong with eventually the decision to ask for a monetization for the hard work done by some people .
And I would like to underline that Chesko works as well as the one of some very few selected others, stand above the average random mod and most often required "paid" tools and content that ends up in the making of those professional level free mods.
So a small monetary incentive is not really for greed and with a 25% is not really goingto make anyone a living , but might end up eventually paying certain expenses in some cases .
Despite it incentivates only minor small mods and not large and DLC sized ones .

riverreveal wrote: Chesko, right now you might feel like there are a lot of people against you, but in time people will look at you as being the first person to take on Valve and Bethesda and their ill-thought out policy changes.

Sure things could have been handled better, but thats life, you are trying to do the right thing now and that makes you a good person.

Dont give up modding, you are way too good to not be around.

Tigon_3rd wrote: I was really hurting when I read what had happened to you, and that they just threw you to the wolves like that, shame on them.

Hope to see you back in the future sometime.

mannygt wrote: I would like to see that everything is going to be calmed. The "paid mods" issue was a shock for all of us but there are no reasons to threat (even death threat, that's disgusting) the modders who started to sell their mods. It's only a matter of choice and I'm pretty sure that you have to respect who have started to sell the mods, even if the author was one of your preferred author. You cannot go in rage for this thing. You may protest against Valve and/or Bethesda but not the choices made by the modders. Your preferred modder has started to sell mods? Well, you have two choice: ignore him or pay him. End of story, no threat, death threats and insults. Move on, find other mods which are free. Mine are free, other great modders give free mods. But I'm not angry with who started to sell their mods. The Nexus is the place for free mods: open the page mod, click download, enable and you're ready to play. What do you want more? Chesko was thrown in a vortex that was too big for him. He don't deserve this treatment, neither the modders who want to sell their own mod. He needs to relax, and Dark0ne too. You must relax too. We must relax. This storm will ends soon.

@popcorn71 He is human, hes allowed to make mistakes its the way we learn have you noticed? just because hes good at something doesn't mean he has to abide by ideals and expectations, this was a hobby and like all hobbies we all would want to make a living out of what we love to do, he should be forgiven for making a mistake that is being over exaggerated by the community who should of been there for that one mistake he made while valve was acting up, you guys should apologise, we're the ones who really screwed up here in terms of expectations from right and wrong, I don't know about you guys but its easier on the sideline then to be him in this, show a little support, instead of making it unnecessarily harder. Edited April 27, 2015 by LangleyBoy

[riverreveal]

In response to post #24705719. #24705874, #24709814 are all replies on the same post.

hangman04 wrote:

hangman04 wrote: PS: now what i would expect from Beth is that they will provide improved CK and maybe other tools to make things really interesting !

Tigon_3rd wrote: Yeah, when you look at how much Bethesda is getting from the 75% (Robin wrote 40%), then I expect the next game to come with a team dedicated to the modding tools and all that s#*!.

So dedicated to the modding tools they wont even bother with the main game.

What motivation is there for devs to spend money making a decent UI when they can sit back and watch the money roll in as modders do it for them?

[Ibnor]

I just don't get it actually. Some people just don't understand. If you're hungry and go to any food provider, can you expect the cook to give their food to you freely? Or maybe your schoolmate can do some freaking awesome airbrush. Can you walk up to him and ask him to do it on your car for free? Yes, the answer to both is sure you can but the choices are totally up to the cook himself and your schoolmate. Same goes to mod. What's wrong with people wanting their effort to be rewarded? And whats wrong with those who have kind hearts and do things voluntarily? The only wrong thing is when a person works voluntarily but some other third party profiting from the person's work without the person consent. Read it again. When a person works voluntarily, but a third party is profiting from that person's works, without that person consent or permission. That. Is. Utterly. Wrong. So far, I haven't seen anything like that happened here. Whats all to go against or supporting? Saying bringing money to free modding community will destroy it. You know what? Open your eyes. Not respecting other people thoughts and opinion is what breaking the community apart. No, not you good sir. I'm referring to those who condemn others, blatantly criticizing without the intention to understand. They know who they are. Well.. This is just my two cent. This is just IMHO. Don't force yourself to agree on what you can't. You'll go bald faster.

[Deleted3507349User]

After having thought hard about this over yet another night, I have come to the following conclusion.

 

We, the modders, initiated this whole thing. We were the ones that created a way to get around the 'mods must be free' clause in the CK's EULA by setting up the donation system. Bethesda didn't do it, Steam didn't do it, WE did it. No modder ever made any significant amount of money out of it, but we made it a thing. WE were the ones that made the original arguments about how modders deserved compensation and how it would inspire new heights of creativity. Once the system was in place there's been constant complaints about how innefective it is.

 

Bethesda is a business from the get go. They are not and never were a charity. They allowed and supported modding for no other reason than it makes good business sense. They made the games to begin with. They provided the Creation Kit, a modified version of the tool that created the game itself and provided it FREE OF CHARGE for modders to use, with only two main caveats. Modders can't steal copyrighted material to make mods and mods have to be free.

 

How can we criticize Bethesda for looking at what we did and saying "Okay, you want to be compensated. We agree with you, here's a system that you can use to get paid for modding if that's what you want to do. BUT, we want OUR cut also."

 

Now, the whole modding community is shaking itself apart because Bethesda did for us what we wanted but could not do for ourselves. WE are the hypocrites in this.

 

EDIT: That said, the Steam model is a horrible model.

Edited April 27, 2015 by digitaltrucker

[empiric]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264, #24707439, #24708649, #24709434, #24709769, #24709849, #24709869, #24709899 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member but I think that the feelings you obviously have for the Nexus are really what this is all about. Mutual respect. Something that seems to be seriously lacking from the developers.

Many people have spent the weekend working on ways in which we may help this community fight for mod creator protection. I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to perhaps I'm giving advice on something I can only scratch at the surface of.

EDIT: I completetly realise this is not Chesko's fault. I suppose that is the point here, being bullied like he has been. It really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and you're now being someone of such influence, maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Dark0ne wrote: Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

CptnBrryCrnch wrote: I love your mods.

I really really really love your mods.

I will totally pay for your material when you are ready for it.

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote: There is nothing to amend for , He was just involved in a shitstorm he didn't deserve .
Personally I see nothing wrong with eventually the decision to ask for a monetization for the hard work done by some people .
And I would like to underline that Chesko works as well as the one of some very few selected others, stand above the average random mod and most often required "paid" tools and content that ends up in the making of those professional level free mods.
So a small monetary incentive is not really for greed and with a 25% is not really goingto make anyone a living , but might end up eventually paying certain expenses in some cases .
Despite it incentivates only minor small mods and not large and DLC sized ones .

riverreveal wrote: Chesko, right now you might feel like there are a lot of people against you, but in time people will look at you as being the first person to take on Valve and Bethesda and their ill-thought out policy changes.

Sure things could have been handled better, but thats life, you are trying to do the right thing now and that makes you a good person.

Dont give up modding, you are way too good to not be around.

Tigon_3rd wrote: I was really hurting when I read what had happened to you, and that they just threw you to the wolves like that, shame on them.

Hope to see you back in the future sometime.

mannygt wrote: I would like to see that everything is going to be calmed. The "paid mods" issue was a shock for all of us but there are no reasons to threat (even death threat, that's disgusting) the modders who started to sell their mods. It's only a matter of choice and I'm pretty sure that you have to respect who have started to sell the mods, even if the author was one of your preferred author. You cannot go in rage for this thing. You may protest against Valve and/or Bethesda but not the choices made by the modders. Your preferred modder has started to sell mods? Well, you have two choice: ignore him or pay him. End of story, no threat, death threats and insults. Move on, find other mods which are free. Mine are free, other great modders give free mods. But I'm not angry with who started to sell their mods. The Nexus is the place for free mods: open the page mod, click download, enable and you're ready to play. What do you want more? Chesko was thrown in a vortex that was too big for him. He don't deserve this treatment, neither the modders who want to sell their own mod. He needs to relax, and Dark0ne too. You must relax too. We must relax. This storm will ends soon.

LangleyBoy wrote: @popcorn71 He is human, hes allowed to make mistakes its the way we learn have you noticed? just because hes good at something doesn't mean he has to abide by ideals and expectations, this was a hobby and like all hobbies we all would want to make a living out of what we love to do, he should be forgiven for making a mistake that is being over exaggerated by the community who should of been there for that one mistake he made while valve was acting up, you guys should apologise, we're the ones who really screwed up here in terms of expectations from right and wrong, I don't know about you guys but its easier on the sideline then to be him in this, show a little support, instead of making it unnecessarily harder.

@popcorn, @phantom: If it was my glass that I dropped, I'd do exactly what I wanted about it. If you dropped my glass you got for free, drinking my stuff you got for free, in my house, you aren't demanding I clean it up. Edited April 27, 2015 by empiric

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24710409.

digitaltrucker wrote:

One could argue that Bethesda owes A LOT to the modding community. They gave us the tools but modders have actually built an industry that is potentially so lucrative that Bethesda are falling over themselves to be a part of.

This does not detract from what you are saying about the TECHNICAL legality of it. However the law is littered with loop holes, many of which even the biggest or most ethical companies will take advantage of at time to time. I think there is some merit in the idea that these people are working hard which, at the end of the day, allow Bethesda to increase value to their products now and in the future. They have made a complete killing thanks to what is done here.

The donation system is not paying for mods and this distinction in the law should not be forgotten. It is totally voluntary (which is the key thing) I hope none of us would see people who do charitable things for other, for a good cause should be punished, and denied being given money for their skills, abilities, intelligence and creativity.

There is also the point that as an individual I should have the right to give money someone. If I went to a person's house, they happen to mod games, we became friends and I felt that their contribution and enrichment to my life meant I wanted to be able to give something back, be it cash, cake, bottle of wine or otherwise.

This could be seen as a friend giving the gift of money to another friend. You are legally allowed to do this up to a certain point (then you have to pay tax). Which is what this is about really, money going "off grid". It is likely we will see clamp downs on lots of these community interactions as companies continuously have to scrape what they can in order to make enough profit to stay in the game.

Edited April 27, 2015 by sunshinenbrick

[KaiserDeathIV]

GG.

 

garrys mod will get paid mods too. a SANDBOX game which RELIES on his mods gets paid mods...

 

its like paying for the ability to shoot in an ego shooter,

 

thx garry, you destroyed garrys mod.

[LudwigvanB]

Might as well record my thoughts. When I bought Skyrim about a year ago, I thought it was unplayable. Without mods, starting with SKUI, I would have given up in despair and outrage within a week. Only because of the mods, I have had hundreds of hours of play out of it and I rarely feel moved to shout at the screen any more. But, if I'd been forced to pay up front for those mods, I'd have said no way am I going to throw good money after bad.

 

Now I've accepted TES games being unpolished and bug-ridden because I assumed Bethesda were a little bit incompetent and under pressure to get the game to market, etc. The good outweighed the dumbass bad. I fully respect that some modders want to make money from their mods, but I am not happy with the idea that I MUST pay double for a game, once for a pile of crap and twice to clear the crap out and make it playable.

 

Above all, what Bethesda have done is destroy the trust I had in them. I always assumed it was incompetence on their part that their games are they way they are when they hit the marketplace. In future, I will believe the games are shoddy because they want to make me pay twice. Never again Bethesda, never again Steam. No trust, no buy.