Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[hangman04]

In response to post #24682284. #24682924, #24688774, #24689099, #24689669, #24712014, #24712544 are all replies on the same post.

Acidbuk wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: Good points. What I am trying to find out is where the morality, the respect in all of this.

I asked a question earlier but I think it got lost among the longer posts.

When the first Beth sdk was released was it just a big TOC or was there a friendly dialouge between the developer and community?

My reason for asking is becasue the way that the pay for mods has been rolled out is very cruel to the authors who made them because they made them out of the good will and love of games, with I imagine the blessing of Beth... I mean they have had some 10 years to take legal action.

My point is that this is a nasty way to intrduce their customers to the developing world of digital copyright. Why is there no communication from them? Why not talk to their audiences like adults as let's face it, most of us saw something like this was inevitable. But why oh why so aggressively? Or just plain clumsy??

Acidbuk wrote: Bethesda has a history of just dropping the creation-kit with an EULA that when you crunch down the legal speak boils to "Go Nuts. Just don't charge anyone for it". which is standard fare for most SDK's from pretty much any Developer that puts one out. Oh I agree with you, this is an absolutely brutal way to introduce a community that has co-operated for years, to the concept of digital copyright and licensing. licensing is not something anyone really wants to do, its one of those necessary evils which come part and parcel of Software development and its amazingly awesome that as a community we (collectively Users and Creators) have been able to avoid using them, instead using an informal "Please don't steal my stuff just ask if you want to use it" unfortunately as this moves forward, we are almost certainly going to see the term "licensing" as things formalise up between paid and Free mods and what can and cannot be used. I suspect Bethesda will keep quiet and ride out the storm of malcontent until things dye down, then they'll come out with some PR speak about 'We are Bethesda value your input on the recent opportunities for monetization of mods, and we are listening to your feed back and moving forward together with the community'

As for why now? that I couldn't tell you., I would kind of get it if they did this for Fallout 4 or TES-6 whenever that comes out because your dealing with a blank slate. but injecting this into an already vibrant and established ecosystem? is like introducing an invasive plant species. Everyone is scrambling - I really have Sympathy for Robin/Dark0ne right now, Guy had to cancel a holiday to deal with the fallout (no pun intended) from this, between Mod authors taking their mods down to migrate to the workshop, other mod authors scrambling to take their mods down because they are afraid someone will take their work and put IT on the workshop for money as their own (DMCA's are no easy thing), and users trying to download as many mods as they can in panic in case their favourite mods go Pay-Wall. its got to be just a little bit insane, investing all that time and money in the infrastructure upgrade was forward thinking. just not in the way he would have liked I guess.

I do find Valves/Bethesda TOC's morally questionable, in particular how its al-edged Chesko was told by a Valve employee that it was okay to use someone else's free content and include that and charge of it and not have to ask any permission what so-ever, that is not Chesko fault. However I find the concept of Early Access Mods Morally dubious - Early access it and of itself is tittering on the brink, paying for Early Access mods is so far down the slippery slope that I doubt you could even see the top any more.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think they did it before the realease of the new games so all this stuff thats happening now will have (in their hopeful opinion) died down by then.

Jake_Dragon wrote: Sorry posted in the wrong place

Acidbuk wrote: But that's the thing yeah. it doesn't make sense from a business of physiological perspective. it they were trying to warm people up to the idea of paid mods its far easier to do warm people up to it on a new Product, and with an existing one. For Better or worse Most people people are psychologically firm with the idea mods should be free. - Right or wrong, I'm just saying that's how it is because its "the way its always been". so trying to change that with a new Product is much much better than trying to Bludgeon it into an existing IP like Skyrim because there is a LOT of fear, a whole big lot of it heaped in large ominous spades, because people are afraid of losing their favourite mods. or because of the interconnected nature of mods - having to buy one mod to play another one. its a rabbit warren than don't end.

. I don't think they would have had anywhere near the backlash if they'd made this change for Fallout 4 or TES6 because people aren't as .psychologically invested in the idea of Mods being free, so long as Bethesda had given assurances that they'd not be introducing this retro-actively for other games. people would have taken them at their word and it would have been far less turmoil. now, that trust is broken and Good Will is something you cannot buy, its earned,

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think they need the people on the Nexus (and other free communities) on board more than they would like to let on... the reason? Cuz Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls VI will more than likely be glitchy unoptimised games. The younger, less experienced console generation who are now moving back to the PC market will be lost, have to start from scratch... without the Nexus, SKSE LOOT and NMM teams, who will at the end of the day the people who will be driving this whole paid modding "revolution" forward.

This does bring me to the wider point though that there is a conflict of interest here. The way it used to be is that we paid ~£45 for our games... they had massive potential and were pretty amazing but (as someone put it earlier) not even close to the experience gained through using mods... in many cases the game was unplayable, remember the whole Skyboost Application Layer scenario.

The point is modders were more inclined to work on these because Bethesda were under a legal obligation to provide a working game. Now, not necessarily so. While there is potential for modders to have some well earned revenue, there will be this playing field where the responsibilities between developer and modder become even more blurry than they are now. There has already been cases of modders complaining they now have to spend more time watching out for copyright and technical issues than they used to because there seems to already be little effort from the developers end in regards to quality control. Welcome to the slippery slope of mission creep and recurring costs.

EDIT: I do not think the problem is so much that a modder should be allowed to charge, what is the issue is exactly how, how much and whether they are being exploited or not.

the only think they Beth could do, the least, is to invest a fraction of the revenues in the functionality of the CK, cause the better their sdk is, the greater the possibility to make complex mods, which can be charged to a dlc level and can probably attract professional groups, small indie studios etc.

On the other hand it is possible on long term that this new way of earning money may attract other distributors that may want to compete Valve, and which way is best to compete than giving the author a better cut of the deal. Edited April 27, 2015 by hangman04

[CosmicMuse]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264, #24707439, #24708649, #24709434, #24709769, #24709849, #24709869, #24709899, #24710859 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member and I think that the feelings you obviously have for the Nexus are really what this is all about. Mutual respect. Something that seems to be seriously lacking from the developers.

Many people have spent the weekend working on ways in which we may help this community fight for mod creator protection. I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to perhaps I'm giving advice on something I can only scratch at the surface of.

EDIT: I completetly realise this is not Chesko's fault. I suppose that is the point here, being bullied like he has been. It really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and you're now being someone of such influence, maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Dark0ne wrote: Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

CptnBrryCrnch wrote: I love your mods.

I really really really love your mods.

I will totally pay for your material when you are ready for it.

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote: There is nothing to amend for , He was just involved in a shitstorm he didn't deserve .
Personally I see nothing wrong with eventually the decision to ask for a monetization for the hard work done by some people .
And I would like to underline that Chesko works as well as the one of some very few selected others, stand above the average random mod and most often required "paid" tools and content that ends up in the making of those professional level free mods.
So a small monetary incentive is not really for greed and with a 25% is not really goingto make anyone a living , but might end up eventually paying certain expenses in some cases .
Despite it incentivates only minor small mods and not large and DLC sized ones .

riverreveal wrote: Chesko, right now you might feel like there are a lot of people against you, but in time people will look at you as being the first person to take on Valve and Bethesda and their ill-thought out policy changes.

Sure things could have been handled better, but thats life, you are trying to do the right thing now and that makes you a good person.

Dont give up modding, you are way too good to not be around.

Tigon_3rd wrote: I was really hurting when I read what had happened to you, and that they just threw you to the wolves like that, shame on them.

Hope to see you back in the future sometime.

mannygt wrote: I would like to see that everything is going to be calmed. The "paid mods" issue was a shock for all of us but there are no reasons to threat (even death threat, that's disgusting) the modders who started to sell their mods. It's only a matter of choice and I'm pretty sure that you have to respect who have started to sell the mods, even if the author was one of your preferred author. You cannot go in rage for this thing. You may protest against Valve and/or Bethesda but not the choices made by the modders. Your preferred modder has started to sell mods? Well, you have two choice: ignore him or pay him. End of story, no threat, death threats and insults. Move on, find other mods which are free. Mine are free, other great modders give free mods. But I'm not angry with who started to sell their mods. The Nexus is the place for free mods: open the page mod, click download, enable and you're ready to play. What do you want more? Chesko was thrown in a vortex that was too big for him. He don't deserve this treatment, neither the modders who want to sell their own mod. He needs to relax, and Dark0ne too. You must relax too. We must relax. This storm will ends soon.

LangleyBoy wrote: @popcorn71 He is human, hes allowed to make mistakes its the way we learn have you noticed? just because hes good at something doesn't mean he has to abide by ideals and expectations, this was a hobby and like all hobbies we all would want to make a living out of what we love to do, he should be forgiven for making a mistake that is being over exaggerated by the community who should of been there for that one mistake he made while valve was acting up, you guys should apologise, we're the ones who really screwed up here in terms of expectations from right and wrong, I don't know about you guys but its easier on the sideline then to be him in this, show a little support, instead of making it unnecessarily harder.

empiric wrote: @popcorn, @phantom: If it was my glass that I dropped, I'd do exactly what I wanted about it. If you dropped my glass you got for free, drinking my stuff you got for free, in my house, you aren't demanding I clean it up.

Hi Chesko, I'm just a random lurker, but I've enjoyed your mods and reading your posts, especially those in the Morrowind Modding community, for several years now.

This business really sucks all round, but you clearly still have friends here. I hope you'll be back sooner rather than later. Good luck and all the best with everything in the future. =)

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24712844.

del_boy wrote:

That's a good idea, although they could do similar to a File of the Month thing so it is a little less exclusive.

This would also decrease the likelihood of them exploiting cheap labour. Edited April 27, 2015 by sunshinenbrick

[Streptococo]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264, #24707439, #24708649, #24709434, #24709769, #24709849, #24709869, #24709899, #24710859, #24712874 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member and I think that the feelings you obviously have for the Nexus are really what this is all about. Mutual respect. Something that seems to be seriously lacking from the developers.

Many people have spent the weekend working on ways in which we may help this community fight for mod creator protection. I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to perhaps I'm giving advice on something I can only scratch at the surface of.

EDIT: I completetly realise this is not Chesko's fault. I suppose that is the point here, being bullied like he has been. It really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and you're now being someone of such influence, maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Dark0ne wrote: Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

CptnBrryCrnch wrote: I love your mods.

I really really really love your mods.

I will totally pay for your material when you are ready for it.

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote: There is nothing to amend for , He was just involved in a shitstorm he didn't deserve .
Personally I see nothing wrong with eventually the decision to ask for a monetization for the hard work done by some people .
And I would like to underline that Chesko works as well as the one of some very few selected others, stand above the average random mod and most often required "paid" tools and content that ends up in the making of those professional level free mods.
So a small monetary incentive is not really for greed and with a 25% is not really goingto make anyone a living , but might end up eventually paying certain expenses in some cases .
Despite it incentivates only minor small mods and not large and DLC sized ones .

riverreveal wrote: Chesko, right now you might feel like there are a lot of people against you, but in time people will look at you as being the first person to take on Valve and Bethesda and their ill-thought out policy changes.

Sure things could have been handled better, but thats life, you are trying to do the right thing now and that makes you a good person.

Dont give up modding, you are way too good to not be around.

Tigon_3rd wrote: I was really hurting when I read what had happened to you, and that they just threw you to the wolves like that, shame on them.

Hope to see you back in the future sometime.

mannygt wrote: I would like to see that everything is going to be calmed. The "paid mods" issue was a shock for all of us but there are no reasons to threat (even death threat, that's disgusting) the modders who started to sell their mods. It's only a matter of choice and I'm pretty sure that you have to respect who have started to sell the mods, even if the author was one of your preferred author. You cannot go in rage for this thing. You may protest against Valve and/or Bethesda but not the choices made by the modders. Your preferred modder has started to sell mods? Well, you have two choice: ignore him or pay him. End of story, no threat, death threats and insults. Move on, find other mods which are free. Mine are free, other great modders give free mods. But I'm not angry with who started to sell their mods. The Nexus is the place for free mods: open the page mod, click download, enable and you're ready to play. What do you want more? Chesko was thrown in a vortex that was too big for him. He don't deserve this treatment, neither the modders who want to sell their own mod. He needs to relax, and Dark0ne too. You must relax too. We must relax. This storm will ends soon.

LangleyBoy wrote: @popcorn71 He is human, hes allowed to make mistakes its the way we learn have you noticed? just because hes good at something doesn't mean he has to abide by ideals and expectations, this was a hobby and like all hobbies we all would want to make a living out of what we love to do, he should be forgiven for making a mistake that is being over exaggerated by the community who should of been there for that one mistake he made while valve was acting up, you guys should apologise, we're the ones who really screwed up here in terms of expectations from right and wrong, I don't know about you guys but its easier on the sideline then to be him in this, show a little support, instead of making it unnecessarily harder.

empiric wrote: @popcorn, @phantom: If it was my glass that I dropped, I'd do exactly what I wanted about it. If you dropped my glass you got for free, drinking my stuff you got for free, in my house, you aren't demanding I clean it up.

CosmicMuse wrote: Hi Chesko, I'm just a random lurker, but I've enjoyed your mods and reading your posts, especially those in the Morrowind Modding community, for several years now.

This business really sucks all round, but you clearly still have friends here. I hope you'll be back sooner rather than later. Good luck and all the best with everything in the future. =)

The main problem here is that people targeted the wrong targets, well, they targeted the easy/most vulnearble part, the mod authors... and many will keep buying games via Valve and Bethesda while name-calling mod authors...

I'd like to see each and every one of those, just for a day having the skills Chesko and many other mods authors have proven to have and receive an e-mail from Valve and Bethesda with that (in my opinion and from the outside, scam of a deal) and see what would they do. Has anyone tried to put in Chesko's (or any other mod author) shoes? Yes they are other mod authors that haven't agreed to the deal, but what do people know about the mod authors that accepted the deal? What do they know about their families, their bills to pay, their economic situation? What about the dreams they may have? Thinking about the possibility of joining a real gaming company? Te possibility of eventually being proposed a job to do what they love? THIS IS MADNESS!! A SACRILEGE!! Well, this reaction it's understandable if you choose randomly a mod and see the ratio "endorsements/downloads" or "thank comment/downloads"... and better not to even think about the ratio "donations/downloads"... Anyway, all this doesn't matter, mod authors are people that spend time, efforts and work to make mods. I think any person who spends their own time and efforts to produce anything is in his/her right to decide if he/she wants to be paid for that.

So many filling their mouths with "I'd definitely pay for that mod!" and when this happens... we all have seen the truth during the last days.(No, the cut is not an excuse for many many many sick behaviours)

People keep pointing mod authors, but they weren't the ones who had the idea, they aren't the ones that see the entire community as cows to milk "We think the communities you support on Nexus offer a ton of value to mod-makers and customers" (by Valve)

I don't like to have to pay for mods, in fact I will not pay for any mod (with that s..t of a deal where just giving you a table to show the result of your efforts and time spent they keep 75%), If the free mods eventually disappear, which I doubt, I won't buy any other Bethesda game because, in my opinion, without mods Bethesda's games are a failure. Horrible designs, full of bugs, and sorry but in my case, after two minutes of dialog I get bored.

I won't buy any more games from Steam, I'll try to find them in other game suppliers, buy the physical game, that's what I will do and it surely won't be nothing to those companies that see us as cattle, in their own words "mod-makers and c u s t o m e r s" to milk. But I will keep respecting and admiring those mod authors that have the skills to make mods regardless of having (or not) been proposed a deal that may feed their dreams.

Chesko, I don't think you will read this, but anyway, I'm sorry for what have happened, keep chasing your dreams whatever they may be, and specifically about modding do what you think you have to do, mod for yourself, stop modding, have your time and come back to share your great works with us, it's up to you... (ironic mode [ON]) but don't worry too much, because you know, you only have to share a new mod for free and you will see that the most of those who are treated you like the worst criminal and are here still being critic with you and demanding something from you (although I am still trying to find a reason that may give them the right to demand anything from you) you will see the most of them (if not all) will forgive you... and everything will be tea and cookies for ever and ever :). at least for them, because the damage they may have done to you, you know that's irrelevant. (ironic mode [OFF])

[badiyee85]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264, #24707439, #24708649, #24709434, #24709769, #24709849, #24709869, #24709899, #24710859, #24712874, #24713619 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member and I think that the feelings you obviously have for the Nexus are really what this is all about. Mutual respect. Something that seems to be seriously lacking from the developers.

Many people have spent the weekend working on ways in which we may help this community fight for mod creator protection. I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to perhaps I'm giving advice on something I can only scratch at the surface of.

EDIT: I completetly realise this is not Chesko's fault. I suppose that is the point here, being bullied like he has been. It really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and you're now being someone of such influence, maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Dark0ne wrote: Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

CptnBrryCrnch wrote: I love your mods.

I really really really love your mods.

I will totally pay for your material when you are ready for it.

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote: There is nothing to amend for , He was just involved in a shitstorm he didn't deserve .
Personally I see nothing wrong with eventually the decision to ask for a monetization for the hard work done by some people .
And I would like to underline that Chesko works as well as the one of some very few selected others, stand above the average random mod and most often required "paid" tools and content that ends up in the making of those professional level free mods.
So a small monetary incentive is not really for greed and with a 25% is not really goingto make anyone a living , but might end up eventually paying certain expenses in some cases .
Despite it incentivates only minor small mods and not large and DLC sized ones .

riverreveal wrote: Chesko, right now you might feel like there are a lot of people against you, but in time people will look at you as being the first person to take on Valve and Bethesda and their ill-thought out policy changes.

Sure things could have been handled better, but thats life, you are trying to do the right thing now and that makes you a good person.

Dont give up modding, you are way too good to not be around.

Tigon_3rd wrote: I was really hurting when I read what had happened to you, and that they just threw you to the wolves like that, shame on them.

Hope to see you back in the future sometime.

mannygt wrote: I would like to see that everything is going to be calmed. The "paid mods" issue was a shock for all of us but there are no reasons to threat (even death threat, that's disgusting) the modders who started to sell their mods. It's only a matter of choice and I'm pretty sure that you have to respect who have started to sell the mods, even if the author was one of your preferred author. You cannot go in rage for this thing. You may protest against Valve and/or Bethesda but not the choices made by the modders. Your preferred modder has started to sell mods? Well, you have two choice: ignore him or pay him. End of story, no threat, death threats and insults. Move on, find other mods which are free. Mine are free, other great modders give free mods. But I'm not angry with who started to sell their mods. The Nexus is the place for free mods: open the page mod, click download, enable and you're ready to play. What do you want more? Chesko was thrown in a vortex that was too big for him. He don't deserve this treatment, neither the modders who want to sell their own mod. He needs to relax, and Dark0ne too. You must relax too. We must relax. This storm will ends soon.

LangleyBoy wrote: @popcorn71 He is human, hes allowed to make mistakes its the way we learn have you noticed? just because hes good at something doesn't mean he has to abide by ideals and expectations, this was a hobby and like all hobbies we all would want to make a living out of what we love to do, he should be forgiven for making a mistake that is being over exaggerated by the community who should of been there for that one mistake he made while valve was acting up, you guys should apologise, we're the ones who really screwed up here in terms of expectations from right and wrong, I don't know about you guys but its easier on the sideline then to be him in this, show a little support, instead of making it unnecessarily harder.

empiric wrote: @popcorn, @phantom: If it was my glass that I dropped, I'd do exactly what I wanted about it. If you dropped my glass you got for free, drinking my stuff you got for free, in my house, you aren't demanding I clean it up.

CosmicMuse wrote: Hi Chesko, I'm just a random lurker, but I've enjoyed your mods and reading your posts, especially those in the Morrowind Modding community, for several years now.

This business really sucks all round, but you clearly still have friends here. I hope you'll be back sooner rather than later. Good luck and all the best with everything in the future. =)

Streptococo wrote: The main problem here is that people targeted the wrong targets, well, they targeted the easy/most vulnearble part, the mod authors... and many will keep buying games via Valve and Bethesda while name-calling mod authors...

I'd like to see each and every one of those, just for a day having the skills Chesko and many other mods authors have proven to have and receive an e-mail from Valve and Bethesda with that (in my opinion and from the outside, scam of a deal) and see what would they do. Has anyone tried to put in Chesko's (or any other mod author) shoes? Yes they are other mod authors that haven't agreed to the deal, but what do people know about the mod authors that accepted the deal? What do they know about their families, their bills to pay, their economic situation? What about the dreams they may have? Thinking about the possibility of joining a real gaming company? Te possibility of eventually being proposed a job to do what they love? THIS IS MADNESS!! A SACRILEGE!! Well, this reaction it's understandable if you choose randomly a mod and see the ratio "endorsements/downloads" or "thank comment/downloads"... and better not to even think about the ratio "donations/downloads"... Anyway, all this doesn't matter, mod authors are people that spend time, efforts and work to make mods. I think any person who spends their own time and efforts to produce anything is in his/her right to decide if he/she wants to be paid for that.

So many filling their mouths with "I'd definitely pay for that mod!" and when this happens... we all have seen the truth during the last days.(No, the cut is not an excuse for many many many sick behaviours)

People keep pointing mod authors, but they weren't the ones who had the idea, they aren't the ones that see the entire community as cows to milk "We think the communities you support on Nexus offer a ton of value to mod-makers and customers" (by Valve)

I don't like to have to pay for mods, in fact I will not pay for any mod (with that s..t of a deal where just giving you a table to show the result of your efforts and time spent they keep 75%), If the free mods eventually disappear, which I doubt, I won't buy any other Bethesda game because, in my opinion, without mods Bethesda's games are a failure. Horrible designs, full of bugs, and sorry but in my case, after two minutes of dialog I get bored.

I won't buy any more games from Steam, I'll try to find them in other game suppliers, buy the physical game, that's what I will do and it surely won't be nothing to those companies that see us as cattle, in their own words "mod-makers and c u s t o m e r s" to milk. But I will keep respecting and admiring those mod authors that have the skills to make mods regardless of having (or not) been proposed a deal that may feed their dreams.

Chesko, I don't think you will read this, but anyway, I'm sorry for what have happened, keep chasing your dreams whatever they may be, and specifically about modding do what you think you have to do, mod for yourself, stop modding, have your time and come back to share your great works with us, it's up to you... (ironic mode [ON]) but don't worry too much, because you know, you only have to share a new mod for free and you will see that the most of those who are treated you like the worst criminal and are here still being critic with you and demanding something from you (although I am still trying to find a reason that may give them the right to demand anything from you) you will see the most of them (if not all) will forgive you... and everything will be tea and cookies for ever and ever :). at least for them, because the damage they may have done to you, you know that's irrelevant. (ironic mode [OFF])

Sorry, I don't think you'll be forgiven that easily. Nor forgotten easily too.

I don't hold much against you, but you did sell yourself for a few quick bucks. At least that's how you've played your cards, all well documented in your own outpourings.

You had a choice, and you made the choice, no matter how "ill-informed" it "seemed" to be, "experiment" or not.

That said, the only true judge is after the passing of time. Time reveals many things, just a matter of time.

By then, I do hope irregardless of how healthy or sick the modding community is (i hope for the better), people will judge what you've done with a clear head.

Yet, remember, its easy to forgive, but never easy to forget.

[MrSquirrels]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264, #24707439, #24708649, #24709434, #24709769, #24709849, #24709869, #24709899, #24710859, #24712874, #24713619, #24713839 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member and I think that the feelings you obviously have for the Nexus are really what this is all about. Mutual respect. Something that seems to be seriously lacking from the developers.

Many people have spent the weekend working on ways in which we may help this community fight for mod creator protection. I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to perhaps I'm giving advice on something I can only scratch at the surface of.

EDIT: I completetly realise this is not Chesko's fault. I suppose that is the point here, being bullied like he has been. It really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and you're now being someone of such influence, maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Dark0ne wrote: Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

CptnBrryCrnch wrote: I love your mods.

I really really really love your mods.

I will totally pay for your material when you are ready for it.

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote: There is nothing to amend for , He was just involved in a shitstorm he didn't deserve .
Personally I see nothing wrong with eventually the decision to ask for a monetization for the hard work done by some people .
And I would like to underline that Chesko works as well as the one of some very few selected others, stand above the average random mod and most often required "paid" tools and content that ends up in the making of those professional level free mods.
So a small monetary incentive is not really for greed and with a 25% is not really goingto make anyone a living , but might end up eventually paying certain expenses in some cases .
Despite it incentivates only minor small mods and not large and DLC sized ones .

riverreveal wrote: Chesko, right now you might feel like there are a lot of people against you, but in time people will look at you as being the first person to take on Valve and Bethesda and their ill-thought out policy changes.

Sure things could have been handled better, but thats life, you are trying to do the right thing now and that makes you a good person.

Dont give up modding, you are way too good to not be around.

Tigon_3rd wrote: I was really hurting when I read what had happened to you, and that they just threw you to the wolves like that, shame on them.

Hope to see you back in the future sometime.

mannygt wrote: I would like to see that everything is going to be calmed. The "paid mods" issue was a shock for all of us but there are no reasons to threat (even death threat, that's disgusting) the modders who started to sell their mods. It's only a matter of choice and I'm pretty sure that you have to respect who have started to sell the mods, even if the author was one of your preferred author. You cannot go in rage for this thing. You may protest against Valve and/or Bethesda but not the choices made by the modders. Your preferred modder has started to sell mods? Well, you have two choice: ignore him or pay him. End of story, no threat, death threats and insults. Move on, find other mods which are free. Mine are free, other great modders give free mods. But I'm not angry with who started to sell their mods. The Nexus is the place for free mods: open the page mod, click download, enable and you're ready to play. What do you want more? Chesko was thrown in a vortex that was too big for him. He don't deserve this treatment, neither the modders who want to sell their own mod. He needs to relax, and Dark0ne too. You must relax too. We must relax. This storm will ends soon.

LangleyBoy wrote: @popcorn71 He is human, hes allowed to make mistakes its the way we learn have you noticed? just because hes good at something doesn't mean he has to abide by ideals and expectations, this was a hobby and like all hobbies we all would want to make a living out of what we love to do, he should be forgiven for making a mistake that is being over exaggerated by the community who should of been there for that one mistake he made while valve was acting up, you guys should apologise, we're the ones who really screwed up here in terms of expectations from right and wrong, I don't know about you guys but its easier on the sideline then to be him in this, show a little support, instead of making it unnecessarily harder.

empiric wrote: @popcorn, @phantom: If it was my glass that I dropped, I'd do exactly what I wanted about it. If you dropped my glass you got for free, drinking my stuff you got for free, in my house, you aren't demanding I clean it up.

CosmicMuse wrote: Hi Chesko, I'm just a random lurker, but I've enjoyed your mods and reading your posts, especially those in the Morrowind Modding community, for several years now.

This business really sucks all round, but you clearly still have friends here. I hope you'll be back sooner rather than later. Good luck and all the best with everything in the future. =)

Streptococo wrote: The main problem here is that people targeted the wrong targets, well, they targeted the easy/most vulnearble part, the mod authors... and many will keep buying games via Valve and Bethesda while name-calling mod authors...

I'd like to see each and every one of those, just for a day having the skills Chesko and many other mods authors have proven to have and receive an e-mail from Valve and Bethesda with that (in my opinion and from the outside, scam of a deal) and see what would they do. Has anyone tried to put in Chesko's (or any other mod author) shoes? Yes they are other mod authors that haven't agreed to the deal, but what do people know about the mod authors that accepted the deal? What do they know about their families, their bills to pay, their economic situation? What about the dreams they may have? Thinking about the possibility of joining a real gaming company? Te possibility of eventually being proposed a job to do what they love? THIS IS MADNESS!! A SACRILEGE!! Well, this reaction it's understandable if you choose randomly a mod and see the ratio "endorsements/downloads" or "thank comment/downloads"... and better not to even think about the ratio "donations/downloads"... Anyway, all this doesn't matter, mod authors are people that spend time, efforts and work to make mods. I think any person who spends their own time and efforts to produce anything is in his/her right to decide if he/she wants to be paid for that.

So many filling their mouths with "I'd definitely pay for that mod!" and when this happens... we all have seen the truth during the last days.(No, the cut is not an excuse for many many many sick behaviours)

People keep pointing mod authors, but they weren't the ones who had the idea, they aren't the ones that see the entire community as cows to milk "We think the communities you support on Nexus offer a ton of value to mod-makers and customers" (by Valve)

I don't like to have to pay for mods, in fact I will not pay for any mod (with that s..t of a deal where just giving you a table to show the result of your efforts and time spent they keep 75%), If the free mods eventually disappear, which I doubt, I won't buy any other Bethesda game because, in my opinion, without mods Bethesda's games are a failure. Horrible designs, full of bugs, and sorry but in my case, after two minutes of dialog I get bored.

I won't buy any more games from Steam, I'll try to find them in other game suppliers, buy the physical game, that's what I will do and it surely won't be nothing to those companies that see us as cattle, in their own words "mod-makers and c u s t o m e r s" to milk. But I will keep respecting and admiring those mod authors that have the skills to make mods regardless of having (or not) been proposed a deal that may feed their dreams.

Chesko, I don't think you will read this, but anyway, I'm sorry for what have happened, keep chasing your dreams whatever they may be, and specifically about modding do what you think you have to do, mod for yourself, stop modding, have your time and come back to share your great works with us, it's up to you... (ironic mode [ON]) but don't worry too much, because you know, you only have to share a new mod for free and you will see that the most of those who are treated you like the worst criminal and are here still being critic with you and demanding something from you (although I am still trying to find a reason that may give them the right to demand anything from you) you will see the most of them (if not all) will forgive you... and everything will be tea and cookies for ever and ever :). at least for them, because the damage they may have done to you, you know that's irrelevant. (ironic mode [OFF])

badiyee85 wrote: Sorry, I don't think you'll be forgiven that easily. Nor forgotten easily too.

I don't hold much against you, but you did sell yourself for a few quick bucks. At least that's how you've played your cards, all well documented in your own outpourings.

You had a choice, and you made the choice, no matter how "ill-informed" it "seemed" to be, "experiment" or not.

That said, the only true judge is after the passing of time. Time reveals many things, just a matter of time.

By then, I do hope irregardless of how healthy or sick the modding community is (i hope for the better), people will judge what you've done with a clear head.

Yet, remember, its easy to forgive, but never easy to forget.

Remember you can always press that big old donate button on the top of the mod page! I think it needs to be bigger... Edited April 27, 2015 by MrSquirrels

[thestoryteller01]

I am little concerned how the introduction of paid mods will effect endorsements.

 

I mean "Mod of the month June 2015 on Nexus" is a nice tag to put on a paid mod for increased sales.

Edited April 27, 2015 by thestoryteller01

[setsuna515]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264, #24707439, #24708649, #24709434, #24709769, #24709849, #24709869, #24709899, #24710859, #24712874, #24713619, #24713839, #24713994 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member and I think that the feelings you obviously have for the Nexus are really what this is all about. Mutual respect. Something that seems to be seriously lacking from the developers.

Many people have spent the weekend working on ways in which we may help this community fight for mod creator protection. I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to perhaps I'm giving advice on something I can only scratch at the surface of.

EDIT: I completetly realise this is not Chesko's fault. I suppose that is the point here, being bullied like he has been. It really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and you're now being someone of such influence, maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Dark0ne wrote: Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

CptnBrryCrnch wrote: I love your mods.

I really really really love your mods.

I will totally pay for your material when you are ready for it.

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote: There is nothing to amend for , He was just involved in a shitstorm he didn't deserve .
Personally I see nothing wrong with eventually the decision to ask for a monetization for the hard work done by some people .
And I would like to underline that Chesko works as well as the one of some very few selected others, stand above the average random mod and most often required "paid" tools and content that ends up in the making of those professional level free mods.
So a small monetary incentive is not really for greed and with a 25% is not really goingto make anyone a living , but might end up eventually paying certain expenses in some cases .
Despite it incentivates only minor small mods and not large and DLC sized ones .

riverreveal wrote: Chesko, right now you might feel like there are a lot of people against you, but in time people will look at you as being the first person to take on Valve and Bethesda and their ill-thought out policy changes.

Sure things could have been handled better, but thats life, you are trying to do the right thing now and that makes you a good person.

Dont give up modding, you are way too good to not be around.

Tigon_3rd wrote: I was really hurting when I read what had happened to you, and that they just threw you to the wolves like that, shame on them.

Hope to see you back in the future sometime.

mannygt wrote: I would like to see that everything is going to be calmed. The "paid mods" issue was a shock for all of us but there are no reasons to threat (even death threat, that's disgusting) the modders who started to sell their mods. It's only a matter of choice and I'm pretty sure that you have to respect who have started to sell the mods, even if the author was one of your preferred author. You cannot go in rage for this thing. You may protest against Valve and/or Bethesda but not the choices made by the modders. Your preferred modder has started to sell mods? Well, you have two choice: ignore him or pay him. End of story, no threat, death threats and insults. Move on, find other mods which are free. Mine are free, other great modders give free mods. But I'm not angry with who started to sell their mods. The Nexus is the place for free mods: open the page mod, click download, enable and you're ready to play. What do you want more? Chesko was thrown in a vortex that was too big for him. He don't deserve this treatment, neither the modders who want to sell their own mod. He needs to relax, and Dark0ne too. You must relax too. We must relax. This storm will ends soon.

LangleyBoy wrote: @popcorn71 He is human, hes allowed to make mistakes its the way we learn have you noticed? just because hes good at something doesn't mean he has to abide by ideals and expectations, this was a hobby and like all hobbies we all would want to make a living out of what we love to do, he should be forgiven for making a mistake that is being over exaggerated by the community who should of been there for that one mistake he made while valve was acting up, you guys should apologise, we're the ones who really screwed up here in terms of expectations from right and wrong, I don't know about you guys but its easier on the sideline then to be him in this, show a little support, instead of making it unnecessarily harder.

empiric wrote: @popcorn, @phantom: If it was my glass that I dropped, I'd do exactly what I wanted about it. If you dropped my glass you got for free, drinking my stuff you got for free, in my house, you aren't demanding I clean it up.

CosmicMuse wrote: Hi Chesko, I'm just a random lurker, but I've enjoyed your mods and reading your posts, especially those in the Morrowind Modding community, for several years now.

This business really sucks all round, but you clearly still have friends here. I hope you'll be back sooner rather than later. Good luck and all the best with everything in the future. =)

Streptococo wrote: The main problem here is that people targeted the wrong targets, well, they targeted the easy/most vulnearble part, the mod authors... and many will keep buying games via Valve and Bethesda while name-calling mod authors...

I'd like to see each and every one of those, just for a day having the skills Chesko and many other mods authors have proven to have and receive an e-mail from Valve and Bethesda with that (in my opinion and from the outside, scam of a deal) and see what would they do. Has anyone tried to put in Chesko's (or any other mod author) shoes? Yes they are other mod authors that haven't agreed to the deal, but what do people know about the mod authors that accepted the deal? What do they know about their families, their bills to pay, their economic situation? What about the dreams they may have? Thinking about the possibility of joining a real gaming company? Te possibility of eventually being proposed a job to do what they love? THIS IS MADNESS!! A SACRILEGE!! Well, this reaction it's understandable if you choose randomly a mod and see the ratio "endorsements/downloads" or "thank comment/downloads"... and better not to even think about the ratio "donations/downloads"... Anyway, all this doesn't matter, mod authors are people that spend time, efforts and work to make mods. I think any person who spends their own time and efforts to produce anything is in his/her right to decide if he/she wants to be paid for that.

So many filling their mouths with "I'd definitely pay for that mod!" and when this happens... we all have seen the truth during the last days.(No, the cut is not an excuse for many many many sick behaviours)

People keep pointing mod authors, but they weren't the ones who had the idea, they aren't the ones that see the entire community as cows to milk "We think the communities you support on Nexus offer a ton of value to mod-makers and customers" (by Valve)

I don't like to have to pay for mods, in fact I will not pay for any mod (with that s..t of a deal where just giving you a table to show the result of your efforts and time spent they keep 75%), If the free mods eventually disappear, which I doubt, I won't buy any other Bethesda game because, in my opinion, without mods Bethesda's games are a failure. Horrible designs, full of bugs, and sorry but in my case, after two minutes of dialog I get bored.

I won't buy any more games from Steam, I'll try to find them in other game suppliers, buy the physical game, that's what I will do and it surely won't be nothing to those companies that see us as cattle, in their own words "mod-makers and c u s t o m e r s" to milk. But I will keep respecting and admiring those mod authors that have the skills to make mods regardless of having (or not) been proposed a deal that may feed their dreams.

Chesko, I don't think you will read this, but anyway, I'm sorry for what have happened, keep chasing your dreams whatever they may be, and specifically about modding do what you think you have to do, mod for yourself, stop modding, have your time and come back to share your great works with us, it's up to you... (ironic mode [ON]) but don't worry too much, because you know, you only have to share a new mod for free and you will see that the most of those who are treated you like the worst criminal and are here still being critic with you and demanding something from you (although I am still trying to find a reason that may give them the right to demand anything from you) you will see the most of them (if not all) will forgive you... and everything will be tea and cookies for ever and ever :). at least for them, because the damage they may have done to you, you know that's irrelevant. (ironic mode [OFF])

badiyee85 wrote: Sorry, I don't think you'll be forgiven that easily. Nor forgotten easily too.

I don't hold much against you, but you did sell yourself for a few quick bucks. At least that's how you've played your cards, all well documented in your own outpourings.

You had a choice, and you made the choice, no matter how "ill-informed" it "seemed" to be, "experiment" or not.

That said, the only true judge is after the passing of time. Time reveals many things, just a matter of time.

By then, I do hope irregardless of how healthy or sick the modding community is (i hope for the better), people will judge what you've done with a clear head.

Yet, remember, its easy to forgive, but never easy to forget.

MrSquirrels wrote: Remember you can always press that big old donate button on the top of the mod page! I think it needs to be bigger...

Chesko, I've loved your mods from the start and am stunned by your ability to code something so complex, so optimally. Frostfall is a great mod, perhaps your greatest. You've changed Skyrim entirely for thousands of people.

So, I am sad to see you go, and I hope your hiatus is temporary. I'm also disgusted at how Valve is treating the issue--as if they now own your work. Maybe they technically do. Maybe there's some clause that assigns Valve as a "publisher", and from the gaming world, we all know how tangled copyright gets when a publisher is involved.

Still, utterly disgusting what they're doing. If I'm going to pay for mods, I would rather 75% or more go to the modder than a paltry 25%. I'm paying for the modder's ability, not Valve's ability to slap something on their client or Bethesda's ability to say "Sure, you can sell it."

[tem1980]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264, #24707439, #24708649, #24709434, #24709769, #24709849, #24709869, #24709899, #24710859, #24712874, #24713619, #24713839, #24713994, #24714209 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member and I think that the feelings you obviously have for the Nexus are really what this is all about. Mutual respect. Something that seems to be seriously lacking from the developers.

Many people have spent the weekend working on ways in which we may help this community fight for mod creator protection. I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to perhaps I'm giving advice on something I can only scratch at the surface of.

EDIT: I completetly realise this is not Chesko's fault. I suppose that is the point here, being bullied like he has been. It really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and you're now being someone of such influence, maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Dark0ne wrote: Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

CptnBrryCrnch wrote: I love your mods.

I really really really love your mods.

I will totally pay for your material when you are ready for it.

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote: There is nothing to amend for , He was just involved in a shitstorm he didn't deserve .
Personally I see nothing wrong with eventually the decision to ask for a monetization for the hard work done by some people .
And I would like to underline that Chesko works as well as the one of some very few selected others, stand above the average random mod and most often required "paid" tools and content that ends up in the making of those professional level free mods.
So a small monetary incentive is not really for greed and with a 25% is not really goingto make anyone a living , but might end up eventually paying certain expenses in some cases .
Despite it incentivates only minor small mods and not large and DLC sized ones .

riverreveal wrote: Chesko, right now you might feel like there are a lot of people against you, but in time people will look at you as being the first person to take on Valve and Bethesda and their ill-thought out policy changes.

Sure things could have been handled better, but thats life, you are trying to do the right thing now and that makes you a good person.

Dont give up modding, you are way too good to not be around.

Tigon_3rd wrote: I was really hurting when I read what had happened to you, and that they just threw you to the wolves like that, shame on them.

Hope to see you back in the future sometime.

mannygt wrote: I would like to see that everything is going to be calmed. The "paid mods" issue was a shock for all of us but there are no reasons to threat (even death threat, that's disgusting) the modders who started to sell their mods. It's only a matter of choice and I'm pretty sure that you have to respect who have started to sell the mods, even if the author was one of your preferred author. You cannot go in rage for this thing. You may protest against Valve and/or Bethesda but not the choices made by the modders. Your preferred modder has started to sell mods? Well, you have two choice: ignore him or pay him. End of story, no threat, death threats and insults. Move on, find other mods which are free. Mine are free, other great modders give free mods. But I'm not angry with who started to sell their mods. The Nexus is the place for free mods: open the page mod, click download, enable and you're ready to play. What do you want more? Chesko was thrown in a vortex that was too big for him. He don't deserve this treatment, neither the modders who want to sell their own mod. He needs to relax, and Dark0ne too. You must relax too. We must relax. This storm will ends soon.

LangleyBoy wrote: @popcorn71 He is human, hes allowed to make mistakes its the way we learn have you noticed? just because hes good at something doesn't mean he has to abide by ideals and expectations, this was a hobby and like all hobbies we all would want to make a living out of what we love to do, he should be forgiven for making a mistake that is being over exaggerated by the community who should of been there for that one mistake he made while valve was acting up, you guys should apologise, we're the ones who really screwed up here in terms of expectations from right and wrong, I don't know about you guys but its easier on the sideline then to be him in this, show a little support, instead of making it unnecessarily harder.

empiric wrote: @popcorn, @phantom: If it was my glass that I dropped, I'd do exactly what I wanted about it. If you dropped my glass you got for free, drinking my stuff you got for free, in my house, you aren't demanding I clean it up.

CosmicMuse wrote: Hi Chesko, I'm just a random lurker, but I've enjoyed your mods and reading your posts, especially those in the Morrowind Modding community, for several years now.

This business really sucks all round, but you clearly still have friends here. I hope you'll be back sooner rather than later. Good luck and all the best with everything in the future. =)

Streptococo wrote: The main problem here is that people targeted the wrong targets, well, they targeted the easy/most vulnearble part, the mod authors... and many will keep buying games via Valve and Bethesda while name-calling mod authors...

I'd like to see each and every one of those, just for a day having the skills Chesko and many other mods authors have proven to have and receive an e-mail from Valve and Bethesda with that (in my opinion and from the outside, scam of a deal) and see what would they do. Has anyone tried to put in Chesko's (or any other mod author) shoes? Yes they are other mod authors that haven't agreed to the deal, but what do people know about the mod authors that accepted the deal? What do they know about their families, their bills to pay, their economic situation? What about the dreams they may have? Thinking about the possibility of joining a real gaming company? Te possibility of eventually being proposed a job to do what they love? THIS IS MADNESS!! A SACRILEGE!! Well, this reaction it's understandable if you choose randomly a mod and see the ratio "endorsements/downloads" or "thank comment/downloads"... and better not to even think about the ratio "donations/downloads"... Anyway, all this doesn't matter, mod authors are people that spend time, efforts and work to make mods. I think any person who spends their own time and efforts to produce anything is in his/her right to decide if he/she wants to be paid for that.

So many filling their mouths with "I'd definitely pay for that mod!" and when this happens... we all have seen the truth during the last days.(No, the cut is not an excuse for many many many sick behaviours)

People keep pointing mod authors, but they weren't the ones who had the idea, they aren't the ones that see the entire community as cows to milk "We think the communities you support on Nexus offer a ton of value to mod-makers and customers" (by Valve)

I don't like to have to pay for mods, in fact I will not pay for any mod (with that s..t of a deal where just giving you a table to show the result of your efforts and time spent they keep 75%), If the free mods eventually disappear, which I doubt, I won't buy any other Bethesda game because, in my opinion, without mods Bethesda's games are a failure. Horrible designs, full of bugs, and sorry but in my case, after two minutes of dialog I get bored.

I won't buy any more games from Steam, I'll try to find them in other game suppliers, buy the physical game, that's what I will do and it surely won't be nothing to those companies that see us as cattle, in their own words "mod-makers and c u s t o m e r s" to milk. But I will keep respecting and admiring those mod authors that have the skills to make mods regardless of having (or not) been proposed a deal that may feed their dreams.

Chesko, I don't think you will read this, but anyway, I'm sorry for what have happened, keep chasing your dreams whatever they may be, and specifically about modding do what you think you have to do, mod for yourself, stop modding, have your time and come back to share your great works with us, it's up to you... (ironic mode [ON]) but don't worry too much, because you know, you only have to share a new mod for free and you will see that the most of those who are treated you like the worst criminal and are here still being critic with you and demanding something from you (although I am still trying to find a reason that may give them the right to demand anything from you) you will see the most of them (if not all) will forgive you... and everything will be tea and cookies for ever and ever :). at least for them, because the damage they may have done to you, you know that's irrelevant. (ironic mode [OFF])

badiyee85 wrote: Sorry, I don't think you'll be forgiven that easily. Nor forgotten easily too.

I don't hold much against you, but you did sell yourself for a few quick bucks. At least that's how you've played your cards, all well documented in your own outpourings.

You had a choice, and you made the choice, no matter how "ill-informed" it "seemed" to be, "experiment" or not.

That said, the only true judge is after the passing of time. Time reveals many things, just a matter of time.

By then, I do hope irregardless of how healthy or sick the modding community is (i hope for the better), people will judge what you've done with a clear head.

Yet, remember, its easy to forgive, but never easy to forget.

MrSquirrels wrote: Remember you can always press that big old donate button on the top of the mod page! I think it needs to be bigger...

setsuna515 wrote: Chesko, I've loved your mods from the start and am stunned by your ability to code something so complex, so optimally. Frostfall is a great mod, perhaps your greatest. You've changed Skyrim entirely for thousands of people.

So, I am sad to see you go, and I hope your hiatus is temporary. I'm also disgusted at how Valve is treating the issue--as if they now own your work. Maybe they technically do. Maybe there's some clause that assigns Valve as a "publisher", and from the gaming world, we all know how tangled copyright gets when a publisher is involved.

Still, utterly disgusting what they're doing. If I'm going to pay for mods, I would rather 75% or more go to the modder than a paltry 25%. I'm paying for the modder's ability, not Valve's ability to slap something on their client or Bethesda's ability to say "Sure, you can sell it."

A respectable post Chesko,

The world is tie-dyed gray, not black and white, as the masses like to believe.

[Lateraliss]

I remember back when this game first came out, way before the Creation Kit was released, I spent days trying to figure out how to mod it. I was able to add custom armor when basically all anyone could do was retextures. I then spent hours and hours refining it so that it was as easy as possible, and made a guide so that other people could add their own armors to the game. I even stuck around the forums to help people if they got stuck.

 

I used other's software to make it, I used other people's retextures to make it, and I never once thought, "I should be getting paid for this." I spent all that time because I loved the game, and I made the guide because I loved the community here.

 

I can't pretend to know other people's thoughts on this, but I think paid mods are a travesty. I would rather give up gaming completely than take part in this. Luckily most modders seem to feel the same, as there is very little paid mods on the workshop.