Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[jimsonlofifan]

Honestly everyone,

 

These people deserve to make some money. The nexus deserves some money, which is why I paid for premium subscription. The modder's deserve some money when they make solid contributions to a game. Bathesda deserves a huge cut, for providing the game and being AMAZING toward the modding community. And Valve deserves some money because they are distributing material for a profit. (the same way that most retailers would have slotting fees.) that being said...

 

obviously the implementation of this is a total nightmare. It seems obvious that Valves and bathesda's hands off approach is to shield themselves from the huge amount of liability that comes from theft of IP, and it would seem that modders would be taking a big risk if anyone has rights to anything in their mod that is now making these authors money. (at least in the US, but I am honestly not sure about it in the UK) I would much rather do donations, if anything.

 

Please let's not act like turds over this though, I don't want Bethesda turning their backs on the modding community, because we come off as crazy and do nothing but attack people for trying to make money.

 

Happy modding everyone. I have a feeling that everything will be fine in the end.

[WightMage]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member, and it just puzzles me as to why you would go on about how you look so fondly on it as family member while you are being abused by people who obviously do not actually care about YOU in the slightest.

And there was me the last few days working on ways in which I may help this community fight for mod creator protection.

I'm sure you may be a fantastic person but a kinda bitter taste in the mouth.

Sorry to be so rude.

The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

[Asyrin]

In response to post #24698319. #24698634, #24699224 are all replies on the same post.

Thandal wrote:

UberSmaug wrote: This is from the Steam FAQ

"Q. Can I sell a mod that contains artwork or content from another game or movie?
A. You must have the necessary rights to post any content that you post to the Steam Workshop, whether it is for sale or not. If you upload copyrighted content that you or your contributors do not have the rights to distribute, then you may forfeit all earned revenue from the item, may be liable for damages and compensation, and may be banned from future participation in this Workshop or the Steam Community in general.

Q. What if I see someone posting content I've created?
A. If someone has copied your work, please use the DMCA takedown notice."

Q. What happens if a mod I bought breaks?
A. Sometimes one mod may modify the same files as another mod, or a particular combination of mods may cause unexpected outcomes. If you find that mod has broken or is behaving unexpectedly, it is best to post politely on the Workshop item's page and let the mod author know the details of what you are seeing."

Modders will have to cover their own asses in some aspects but you should be doing that anyway.

ScrollTron1c wrote: Let's go a bit into the future, say you're a modder with plenty of useful FREE mods, and you don't want other people to profit from your work:


From now on you have to patrol the Steam Workshop every day and look for mods where you SUSPECT that they could have content stolen from you. That is, if that content is even visible on the promo images.

Then you have to buy the suspicious mods to verify if there is anything made by you inside.
In case of mods that are just scripts, sounds etc. you would have to buy practically ALL the mods to be safe.

Of course you can't get an actual refund (Steambucks are essentially toy money with which you can only buy Steam products) so you're sitting on the costs for all that.


Now if every modder was a billion dollar company, he would have his staff of lawyers and snitches and let them handle all this.
But for a private person? It is an impossible task even just to monitor the workshop 24/7.


This leaves me with 2 possible explanations:

A) The responsible project managers are incompetent outsiders, and their superiors are obliged to cancel the project and do actual reparations by fully refunding all customers and reimburse the affected mod authors

or

B) This was a firm part of the business plan, to silently take the money regardless where it comes from - speculating that the majority of modders will stop bothering with research and complaints at some point.

If you only work with free mods, what do you care if a small percentage of mods slip through the cracks and make a few bucks on your work? I mean...put your pride down and think logically. Are you really SO petty?

Now, if it was a wildly successful mod that made a high amount of money that's a different story....but those impostors will be easy to spot simply by being successful.

[Fowldragon]

In response to post #24688489. #24688904, #24690914, #24691034, #24691269, #24691774, #24698794, #24698939, #24698984, #24699959, #24700204, #24700614, #24700869 are all replies on the same post.

Fowldragon wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: The compensation will be going to (mostly) the wrong people. What Pay Mods will do is give the wrong incentive for future modders... modders who do not know and are not part of the long history of game devlopment and pushing the boundaries. If it all goes pear shaped it will bite Valvesda in the ass.

Shame is it will also hurt the "ethical" gamers out there. That being said there will always be new games and new platforms.

Fowldragon wrote: How can it go to the wrong people?

I have no clue how compensation works, but I bet it will be "GAMED"..say, a mod is compensated on the basis of FAVES and SUBs...I know of multiple mods that have major support but never amounted to much or even got finished...One I know of had 500+ faves and 1500 subscriptions. It was to become a new world in the spirit of another FALSKAAR..it was on STEAM's hot list and yet it never grew more than .123Mbytes. It was suggested that the whole thing was a scam to see how many people would endorse a project that was NEVER intended to be Started...much less finished.

Even if it worked one time, it won't work again.."Fool me once, shame on you.Fool me twice, shame on me.". OTOH, not everyone's first try is a success. I imagine some of my favorite modders made a right mess of it their first time out.

STEAM recently added BLENDER to its modding tools. It reminded me of a History lesson ... the people who made the MOST MONEY during the 1849 California gold rush...were the people selling tools and supplies.

Lateraliss wrote: Fun fact. Did you know that the Bible isn't referencing the eye of a needle of a sewing needle? There was a gate in Jerusalem called The Eye of the Needle. It was too small for a camel and its baggage to get through, so the people would have to first take all the baggage off the camel and the camel would have to basically crawl through.

It's a good metaphor, as the camel would have to remove all its possessions before passing through the gate.

sunshinenbrick wrote: By "wrong people" I mean if someone free loads off other people's hard work and then goes to make loads of money selling it to unsuspecting people.

EDIT: Just to clarify that this is not implying everyone, but the way they seem to have set it up now appears to offer very little protection from abuse. I guess they figure that bad apples will be weeded out over time... in the meantime however.

I really think modders should see the real value of what they do and demand better conditions. Hey, a modders strike??

diyeath wrote: Principal and conviction are only luxuries when you surround yourself with an environment that's counter intuitive to those concepts.

Fowldragon wrote: @lateraliss..That IS a fun fact!! I honestly thought it was literally a needle.

@sunshinenbrick...Money always changes the game...and it always attracts the people who want to get something for nothing...but the net is a collective that has innumerable sets of eyes. My Best friends Mom used to always say, " What is concocted in the Dark, will always be revealed in the light of Day.
My greatest fear, is not of the few Toads that will MUCK it up...Rather, it will be the Stroti's Tamiras, Elianoras and literally Everyone who has ever given their work away for nothing more than the courtesy of being attributed for their work... who are forced to revoke that GOOD WILL

@diyeath People have to pay bills, a man/woman of Good Character and Conscience is no exception. I won't debate this. Life is full of examples of ordinary people who dealing with extraordinary circumstances make difficult but pragmatic decisions...Not every fight.

Fowldragon wrote: srry, "Not every fight, is the "GOOD FIGHT"

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ diyeath

Man, that is deep... That's got me thinking every which way! Love it :D

tonycubed2 wrote: That bible quote is used in the wrong context here. The Bible has no issues with a person being rich. King Solomon was filthy rich and it was a gift from God. Allowing gives to bring their pagan idols did him in, not wealth.

What the verse means is that we are not to replace God with money. We are not to make money into an idol. This applies to anything else as well. Anything can be made into an idol if we are not careful. Including poverty.

Fowldragon wrote: @ tonycubed2

I always knew it wasn't referring to wealth..otherwise Christians would condemn Mega Churches...Pastors like Benny Hinn, Peter Popov, Mike Murdock and Pastor DOLLAR...or the ENTIRE Roman Catholic Church Hierarchy.

tonycubed2 wrote: Oh theres tons of pastors going to hell. The devil loves nothing more than convincing a person he is following God when in reality he is not. And then there are the bad apples fleecing the flock. But like in every other field or endeavor there are real God fearing true pastors as well as charlatans.

WightMage wrote: I didn't know that- and actually, the metaphor is much improved by that explanation. Thanks.

I started this tangent so I feel compelled to bring it back to topic. but I can't find a way to relate people who CHOOSE to be POOR over being faithful...

I know about going to sleep hungry....I know about the urge to break rules to eat...and I know about refusing to steal from others regardless of how JUSTIFIED I might be.

I also know that it is HUMAN to succumb. We all have to make the choices the best way we can for ouselves and for those who rely on us so, I won't be judging ANYONE regardless of how much I believe I KNOW about their circumstances.

[popcorn71]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member, and it just puzzles me as to why you would go on about how you look so fondly on it as family member while you are being abused by the people you are going to be working for.

And there was me spending my weekend working on ways in which I may help this community fight for mod creator protection.

I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to be so rude.

EDIT: I realise this is not Chesko's fault. It's just it really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and being some one of such influence maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass. Edited April 27, 2015 by popcorn71

[nekollx]

Robin,

 

I would like to apologize.

 

I keep saying "I want to leave for a while", but I think it's important that I say this now instead of waiting several months.

 

Over the past few days, I have been involved in something with greater magnitude than anything I have ever been involved in before. When I speak, I'm not used to my words carrying as much weight, or for the signal to travel as far. In short, I am not used to having to choose my words with precision.

 

Regarding precision, in particular, I mentioned being involved in an NDA. I used this term off-handedly and only meant to say that "a multi-billion dollar company's representative told me not to say something, and I agreed not to". I should not have used the term "NDA". But (as you summarized) the outcome would have course had been the same. Destruction of trust at best; legal action due to harming another company's business interests at worst.

 

In the 24 hours following the launch of the curated Workshop for Skyrim, I was assaulted on all sides with a constant stream of abuse, attacks, and threats. I have never had to cope with this before in any setting, online or off. I was prepared to simply weather it on Steam Workshop, where I could put that "in a box", not check those messages, and forget about it for a time until things "cooled off".

 

When PC Gamer, Destructoid, Kotaku, and even Forbes (though mercifully not by name) began writing articles about me and the current situation with varying levels of truthfulness, it was at this point that I began to believe that things were spinning completely out of control, and that it was time to leave.

 

Before I did so, I wrote a strongly-worded message on Reddit that provided some details into the situation, as well as having some harsh things about the Nexus. In that moment, I was backed into a corner; I felt very defeated. I lashed out at Valve and Bethesda for throwing me in front of a bus, and for not providing the human-factor support I needed when the bus backed up and ran me over again, and again, and again. They did not do what you would have done, which is protect the member of the community in question.

 

And then I lashed out at you and the Nexus. I did this because, at the time, I needed things to blame for what had happened to me. The Nexus accepting money from a program that was clearly not in the community's best interest (in the community's eyes) seemed like a clear conflict of interest at the time. But like always, it's more complex than that, as you laid out in your response to me, and as you laid out in this article.

 

I apologize for saying what I said, and for any damage or grief it may have caused you. I was angry, confused, and very, very tired. Working 20 hours a day for weeks to finish several projects on a deadline for a company that might change your life will do that to you.

 

I would now like to simply be forgotten for now. I no longer to be a part of this conversation.

hang in there man *internet hug*

[WightMage]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member, and it just puzzles me as to why you would go on about how you look so fondly on it as family member while you are being abused by the people you are going to be working for.

And there was me spending my weekend working on ways in which I may help this community fight for mod creator protection.

I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to be so rude.

EDIT: I realise this is not Chesko's fault. It's just it really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and being some one of such influence maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

[jfisha]

Here's what worries me (besides the DRMification of modding, as Dark0ne states); I never have been big into immersion in gaming, but about three years ago, I watched a youtube video from Gopher talking about Frostfall. I thought it looked interesting. I'd try it out for a day or two but then probably get rid of it.

 

I've since fell in love with Frostfall. It's an essential mod in my load order.

 

I would of never checked it out if it was behind a five dollar pay wall and would of lost out on an amazing mod.

[Fowldragon]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member, and it just puzzles me as to why you would go on about how you look so fondly on it as family member while you are being abused by the people you are going to be working for.

And there was me spending my weekend working on ways in which I may help this community fight for mod creator protection.

I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to be so rude.

EDIT: I realise this is not Chesko's fault. It's just it really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and being some one of such influence maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

@Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

[diyeath]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member, and it just puzzles me as to why you would go on about how you look so fondly on it as family member while you are being abused by the people you are going to be working for.

And there was me spending my weekend working on ways in which I may help this community fight for mod creator protection.

I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to be so rude.

EDIT: I realise this is not Chesko's fault. It's just it really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and being some one of such influence maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care! Edited April 27, 2015 by diyeath