Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[ScrollTron1c]

In response to post #24718124. #24721434, #24722004, #24722269, #24722784, #24724124, #24725044, #24725379 are all replies on the same post.

sunshinenbrick wrote:

twhelan wrote: Haven't been over at Steam for quite some time now, and I won't even follow any links I come across. The first thing I do when booting up is go in offline mode. As far as I'm concerned, the s***storm (as you so eloquently put it, hehe) has merely evolved into a s*** hurricane.

ScrollTron1c wrote: Not sure what you mean with (Steam) moderator aggression, i have voiced my opinion there several times in an entirely civilized manner and even substantially critized their products and business practices. No ban for me.

All the people I've seen banned pretty much deserved it due to death threats, obscenities, personal harassment and all that.


Of course it doesn't change that this whole thing is a huge desaster for everyone, except for the few people who'll get seriously rich by earning solid money from every transaction (without lifting a finger for it).

And it shows how stupid we all were to allow Steam becoming such a huge "monopolistic monoculture". People with dozens or hundreds of games registered on Steam can lose everything over one unthoughtful posting. And that is even legal.

twhelan wrote: @ScrollTronic

You put up a really good argument for thinking.

Fowldragon wrote: xXFaZeGabeN420Xx Apr 25 @ 12:48pm
dont kill me
kill barry, he invented the paid mod thing..
BARRY YOU'RE FIRED.

I found this post in a protest collection

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ ScrollTronic

Quote from my original post:

"Then went to the Beth forums"

Where they are basically stating, agree with us or piss off... not very inviting. I see the point about some people perhaps deserving it, death threats and what not, but some of these people are angry with good reason, and they may just use hyperbole (ever listened to people on the CoD servers. its endemic). It also kinda reinforces the message of "if we don't like you we will kill (ban) you"

It might be better to just delete posts or suspend rather than ban people as that sends out the wrong message to more polite members as a sort of closed door, which just aggravates more people and makes the company more and more faceless. Not good for PR.

I've never moderated a board before so do unfortunately do not speak from experience.

jad31te wrote: I have.. and their job is not fun, not to mention everyone always looks at the moderators and not at the people actually giving the orders. If Admistration says to ban, you ban.. that simple

Question though, what has been Forced upon them?

sunshinenbrick wrote: Know what you mean by chain of command, sucks.

They are being forced into accepting new rules that they had no voice in making. I completely understand that some things are inevitable but not enough value is given to HOW you do things in the corporate world today. Just make as much money as you as quickly as you can. There are a few exceptions thank goodness, but you do tend to find these are the smaller, more independent companies.

@sunshinenbrick

that why i conditioned my post with "All the people I've seen banned" ;)
Can only speak for what i personally witnessed.

But apparently some people got banned after asking for refunds, admins claiming that they abused the system?

That's crazy in particular after seeing these mod reviews showing that many of the "starter pack" mods are simply crap that would be a guaranteed flop here on Nexus.
Armors without inventory/ground model, no female version, no gloves/boots, no way to obtain them outside console, etc. Edited April 27, 2015 by ScrollTron1c

[ramccoid]

In response to post #24724844. #24725529 is also a reply to the same post.

ramccoid wrote:

locomotive1236 wrote: __". I've never, ever seen a mod with a endorsement ratio of around 50% to unique downloads, not even the most endorsed mod ever, has no were near that proud ratio. " --Does that surprise you that people are unanimous in their decisions against paid modding?
__"then there's all the hundreds of comments, all in a few of days. I and others have spent 1000s of hours making quality mods to share, for what you are griping about, for free but it appears you would only make a big effort to support a mod which was thrown together to make your selfish point apparent. "

While I agree with your sentiments, please keep in mind that most are opposing the way valve/Bethesda handle things and their share in your work. They are, in their own ways, trying to fight against the capitalistic nature of big corporations. Not to mention, the community in many ways help the mod authors too. I know a lot of people who have spent hundreds of hours testing the game for the modders. They post bugs and suggest fixes to improve the mods. Do those efforts not worth anything in your eyes? Should they get a share of your profit too? I'm not acting entitled, but the free Beta testing and quality controls contribute to the mod's success, no?

As I have stated in many other posts, I do not blame this case on any particular person or website, but the poor designs of the concept.

__"A good community stands up and unites and fights together for the values it holds dear but all I have seen is you all fighting for your own self interests and it sickens me to see the community I love being broken apart by selfishness. "
Careful about what you say because are not modders being, as you stated, "selfish" as well for selling something that was once free? You deserve all the praise for your hardwork (via the donation system if users really appreciated it), but the current pay to play is illogical. I was under the impression that this values that we all hold dear was the free modding community for the past decades or so? Or am I delusional?

The point being is I and others are doing this for free, that's why we are here and not at Steam but what you in your protest forget is we are who you are fighting for, the creators of your free mods.

We are human and have feelings too. Edited April 27, 2015 by ramccoid

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24718124. #24721434, #24722004, #24722269, #24722784, #24724124, #24725044, #24725379, #24725674 are all replies on the same post.

sunshinenbrick wrote:

twhelan wrote: Haven't been over at Steam for quite some time now, and I won't even follow any links I come across. The first thing I do when booting up is go in offline mode. As far as I'm concerned, the s***storm (as you so eloquently put it, hehe) has merely evolved into a s*** hurricane.

ScrollTron1c wrote: Not sure what you mean with (Steam) moderator aggression, i have voiced my opinion there several times in an entirely civilized manner and even substantially critized their products and business practices. No ban for me.

All the people I've seen banned pretty much deserved it due to death threats, obscenities, personal harassment and all that.


Of course it doesn't change that this whole thing is a huge desaster for everyone, except for the few people who'll get seriously rich by earning solid money from every transaction (without lifting a finger for it).

And it shows how stupid we all were to allow Steam becoming such a huge "monopolistic monoculture". People with dozens or hundreds of games registered on Steam can lose everything over one unthoughtful posting. And that is even legal.

twhelan wrote: @ScrollTronic

You put up a really good argument for thinking.

Fowldragon wrote: xXFaZeGabeN420Xx Apr 25 @ 12:48pm
dont kill me
kill barry, he invented the paid mod thing..
BARRY YOU'RE FIRED.

I found this post in a protest collection

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ ScrollTronic

Quote from my original post:

"Then went to the Beth forums"

Where they are basically stating, agree with us or piss off... not very inviting. I see the point about some people perhaps deserving it, death threats and what not, but some of these people are angry with good reason, and they may just use hyperbole (ever listened to people on the CoD servers. its endemic). It also kinda reinforces the message of "if we don't like you we will kill (ban) you"

It might be better to just delete posts or suspend rather than ban people as that sends out the wrong message to more polite members as a sort of closed door, which just aggravates more people and makes the company more and more faceless. Not good for PR.

I've never moderated a board before so do unfortunately do not speak from experience.

jad31te wrote: I have.. and their job is not fun, not to mention everyone always looks at the moderators and not at the people actually giving the orders. If Admistration says to ban, you ban.. that simple

Question though, what has been Forced upon them?

sunshinenbrick wrote: Know what you mean by chain of command, sucks.

They are being forced into accepting new rules that they had no voice in making. I completely understand that some things are inevitable but not enough value is given to HOW you do things in the corporate world today. Just make as much money as you as quickly as you can. There are a few exceptions thank goodness, but you do tend to find these are the smaller, more independent companies.

ScrollTron1c wrote: @sunshinenbrick

that why i conditioned my post with "All the people I've seen banned" ;)
Can only speak for what i personally witnessed.

But apparently some people got banned after asking for refunds, admins claiming that they abused the system?

That's crazy in particular after seeing these mod reviews showing that many of the "starter pack" mods are simply crap that would be a guaranteed flop here on Nexus.
Armors without inventory/ground model, no female version, no gloves/boots, no way to obtain them outside console, etc.

Man, people surely are not going to actually buy into this scheme are they? *jaw drops*

[locomotive1236]

In response to post #24724139.

olivii wrote:

Unfortunately, I fear that quality mods that take a lot of time may be eclipsed with simpler, faster produced mods. You pointed out the very true nature of the pay to play mods. The first mod that arrive on the scene will almost always make the most money. Similar to the endorsement system, people only see how many has downloaded the mods and will follow the lead. Duplicate mods, which may be much better, will not see as much advertisement because people are less likely to buy more than one type under this new management. I know I wouldn't pay for two mods that modify the same texture or armor. Just look at the workshop for the current paid items and see how many endorsements they have. It's ridiculous to see people buy those stuff when they can find on Nexus for free (they just have to know where to look). Since it's the first one available on paid mod sections, some people just readily pay for whatever the prices are. Reviews for the mods are useless since the authors can already delete negative comments from the discussion tabs. And the quality controls and bugs...

[locomotive1236]

In response to post #24724844. #24725529, #24725744 are all replies on the same post.

ramccoid wrote:

locomotive1236 wrote: __". I've never, ever seen a mod with a endorsement ratio of around 50% to unique downloads, not even the most endorsed mod ever, has no were near that proud ratio. " --Does that surprise you that people are unanimous in their decisions against paid modding?
__"then there's all the hundreds of comments, all in a few of days. I and others have spent 1000s of hours making quality mods to share, for what you are griping about, for free but it appears you would only make a big effort to support a mod which was thrown together to make your selfish point apparent. "

While I agree with your sentiments, please keep in mind that most are opposing the way valve/Bethesda handle things and their share in your work. They are, in their own ways, trying to fight against the capitalistic nature of big corporations. Not to mention, the community in many ways help the mod authors too. I know a lot of people who have spent hundreds of hours testing the game for the modders. They post bugs and suggest fixes to improve the mods. Do those efforts not worth anything in your eyes? Should they get a share of your profit too? I'm not acting entitled, but the free Beta testing and quality controls contribute to the mod's success, no?

As I have stated in many other posts, I do not blame this case on any particular person or website, but the poor designs of the concept.

__"A good community stands up and unites and fights together for the values it holds dear but all I have seen is you all fighting for your own self interests and it sickens me to see the community I love being broken apart by selfishness. "
Careful about what you say because are not modders being, as you stated, "selfish" as well for selling something that was once free? You deserve all the praise for your hardwork (via the donation system if users really appreciated it), but the current pay to play is illogical. I was under the impression that this values that we all hold dear was the free modding community for the past decades or so? Or am I delusional?

ramccoid wrote: The point being is I and others are doing this for free, that's why we are here and not at Steam but what you in your protest forget is we are who you are fighting for, the creators of your free mods.

We are human and have feelings too.

I never lost that goal and I detest those that viciously attack the authors with hate and death threats. However, do you want the system that valve implemented to stay? Do you want them to obtain 75% of your cut for sitting on their hands the whole time? Do you forsee more people will download your mods and try them out if they have to pay? Perhaps it is better to get a few dollars out of your work than none, but is that the spirit of modding that you pursue? Did you initially mod to earn a few dollars or to improve the community? If you are the former, then you are also a businessman and also have your own selfish desires, no? Again, I'm not trying to insult you or anyone who believe they deserve their work to be paid, I'm just asking was that why you started modding or has money changed everything?

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24724844. #24725529, #24725744, #24726139 are all replies on the same post.

ramccoid wrote:

locomotive1236 wrote: __". I've never, ever seen a mod with a endorsement ratio of around 50% to unique downloads, not even the most endorsed mod ever, has no were near that proud ratio. " --Does that surprise you that people are unanimous in their decisions against paid modding?
__"then there's all the hundreds of comments, all in a few of days. I and others have spent 1000s of hours making quality mods to share, for what you are griping about, for free but it appears you would only make a big effort to support a mod which was thrown together to make your selfish point apparent. "

While I agree with your sentiments, please keep in mind that most are opposing the way valve/Bethesda handle things and their share in your work. They are, in their own ways, trying to fight against the capitalistic nature of big corporations. Not to mention, the community in many ways help the mod authors too. I know a lot of people who have spent hundreds of hours testing the game for the modders. They post bugs and suggest fixes to improve the mods. Do those efforts not worth anything in your eyes? Should they get a share of your profit too? I'm not acting entitled, but the free Beta testing and quality controls contribute to the mod's success, no?

As I have stated in many other posts, I do not blame this case on any particular person or website, but the poor designs of the concept.

__"A good community stands up and unites and fights together for the values it holds dear but all I have seen is you all fighting for your own self interests and it sickens me to see the community I love being broken apart by selfishness. "
Careful about what you say because are not modders being, as you stated, "selfish" as well for selling something that was once free? You deserve all the praise for your hardwork (via the donation system if users really appreciated it), but the current pay to play is illogical. I was under the impression that this values that we all hold dear was the free modding community for the past decades or so? Or am I delusional?

ramccoid wrote: The point being is I and others are doing this for free, that's why we are here and not at Steam but what you in your protest forget is we are who you are fighting for, the creators of your free mods.

We are human and have feelings too.

locomotive1236 wrote: I never lost that goal and I detest those that viciously attack the authors with hate and death threats. However, do you want the system that valve implemented to stay? Do you want them to obtain 75% of your cut for sitting on their hands the whole time? Do you forsee more people will download your mods and try them out if they have to pay? Perhaps it is better to get a few dollars out of your work than none, but is that the spirit of modding that you pursue? Did you initially mod to earn a few dollars or to improve the community? If you are the former, then you are also a businessman and also have your own selfish desires, no? Again, I'm not trying to insult you or anyone who believe they deserve their work to be paid, I'm just asking was that why you started modding or has money changed everything?

I'm not fighting for you, or any other mod author. I'm not fighting for mod users, either. And I'm certainly not fighting for any website admins or corporate CEOs.

I'm fighting for common sense and decency. THAT is what is at stake, here.

And no matter what side of the battle you're on, if you lose sight of that (or never had sight of it in the first place), then you've already lost.

[locomotive1236]

In response to post #24722219. #24724519 is also a reply to the same post.

MacKom wrote:

Dark0ne wrote: Check the news post before this one. We updated the donation system and you need to turn it on in your file settings.

Perhaps I am stupid, but I do not see a window pop up after selecting the file to download about the donation. It just go straight from pending to download in Mod Organizer. I'm not sure how to enable that window. Although the donation button on the top right corner are there for some authors. Some don't have anything Edited April 27, 2015 by locomotive1236

[WightMage]

In response to post #24714709. #24715179, #24721139, #24722069, #24723599 are all replies on the same post.

Alienfriend wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: Don't be fooled by PR... They will only budge if it benefits them. That is why the communities must stand together and demand better rights. Petitions are an excellent way to do this but not the only way.

Good to know we may at least be able to twist his arm, which in turn may twist Bethesda into a more thought out scheme and not this cash cow they are chasing.

That is probably the most immediate problem that I see, Valvethesda get cold hard cash, modders... Oh cheers, coupons!

ScrollTron1c wrote: You mean the reddit Q&A he made?
He dodged all relevant questions entirely.

I bet if someone would have asked:
"Gabe, what time is it?"

He would have answered:
"Time is important for us. Some scientists also say that time is relative, which could have unexpected ramifications for every business model on the market if proven to be true."

...yada, yada yada. The typical nonsense you hear from politicians and businesspeople.


Gabe, people have asked a couple of simple questions that deserved to be answered.
Like Dark0ne's question if modding will be DRM-controlled in the future.

Fowldragon wrote: I've noticed 6 protest mods in the workshop.. Everyone should get over there and fave/endorse them to keep them on the front page. I have posted a pledge to no longer spend a dime through STEAM...getting GABE to stand down will only happen if he's LOSING MONEY.

ScrollTron1c wrote: I actually wished that the "protest sign" mod would be on Nexus.
That would have motivated me to at least launch the game and make a few funny screenshots to lighten my mood.

But yeah nothing from the Skyrim Workshop will ever land on my harddrive. I'm not a huge fanatic with perfect bashed patches and all that, but i take great care about a proper load order and resource structure via MO, so the result in game is exactly what i have installed.

Even if it might be a noble protest mod.

Allowing Steam Workshop to randomly drop its "mods" with no way to control how and where it loads would be more of a contaminant.

I loved your example, but I think its less that he dodged the question and more that he was being verbose about it.

For instance, in answer to the DRM question, he's basically saying that he thinks its up to Bethesda, not Valve. That's why he goes on about not "dictating" what developers can or cannot do with their games rather than just sayig yes or no.

Furthermore, the Dark0ne was asking in between the lines whether Valve would put a stop to it if they tried, and instead of, once again, saying yes or no, he just says its up to Bethesda, but Valve will let them know if they think their action is stupid.

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #24722219. #24724519, #24726324 are all replies on the same post.

MacKom wrote:

Dark0ne wrote: Check the news post before this one. We updated the donation system and you need to turn it on in your file settings.

locomotive1236 wrote: Perhaps I am stupid, but I do not see a window pop up after selecting the file to download about the donation. It just go straight from pending to download in Mod Organizer. I'm not sure how to enable that window. Although the donation button on the top right corner are there for some authors. Some don't have anything

The mod author needs to specifically turn it on in their file settings. If they haven't done that, you won't see the pop-up.

[locomotive1236]

In response to post #24718104.

Kepesk wrote:

Unfortunately, many people, hundreds of them in fact, have bought and subscribed to most of the mods in the paid section. If steam analyze this and see that much profit in only a couple of days, I highly doubt they will remove the system. I'm not even sure why people are buying some of the items on there, like the re-skin warhammer or the dawnguard sword. Does it even add that much game play value compared to the mods available on Nexus?