Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[NocturnX]

In response to post #24736679. #24737664, #24747479, #24750714, #24755589, #24757064, #24772654, #24776964, #24818569, #24842684, #24874109, #24933259 are all replies on the same post.

UberSmaug wrote: So there is this thing called a "Craft Fair". Craziest thing. It this place where hobbyest go to sell their little do-dads, and funny little needle point kitty cat tissue box covers, And woodcrafts, and WORKS OF FRIGGIN ART!!!!!!!! They don't steal from each other's tables when the other person is not looking... Well some probably do but that's because some people are jerks, And want to take things because they somehow justify to themselves that they are entitled everything they see simply because.... they want it. Yeah some people are going to try to abuse the system. Just like somebody will try to abuse every system. Is that really a reason not to give this a try? It will not be perfect right away. And probably will never be "perfect". Nothing is. We will just have to respect each other and be honest in our actions. Those who betray that trust will be outed if we watch each others backs.

Why is modding any different from Wood Working Jewelry Making, Painting, Sculpture, Drawing, Music, Knitting, and countless other, hobbies for some, but for others they are more. For those willing to put in the hard work and dedication, make things of a professional quality, it can become a job. Maybe not your primary source of income but a nice secondary bump. Who cares if its not going to make you rich. You had fun while you were doing it right. This is not about being greedy.

All these posts about evil gaming companies trying to scam people and rip you off is the highest form of disrespect. If you cant understand that it makes me sad. If not for Bethesda and Valve and Nexus and all the others there would be no mods, let alone a game to play at all. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. If you think for one second the developers at these companies don't love games as much as you do than we are lost. That kind of thinking, not the money, will eat away at this community and the entire gaming industry.

Pro Paid mods. Is not Anti Free mods. Free mods should not go away. There are plenty of mods that just wont be able to jive with the paid model and they should not be eliminated. New modders need a place to get their feet wet. We need a place to get feedback on works in progress. If your mod doesn't make it to the market place you should have to option to releases for free. Trying to ban free modding would be a huge mistake. And IF that happens I guaranty you will see a modder strike

Why shouldn't we be able to sell our Art like any other Artist? People at these craft fairs all have a really good time and are supper nice to each other. They share ideas, help each other out, collaborate on projects. Teach each other techniques. Form lifelong friendships. FALL IN LOVE. Because they share a common interest. That is a Community. And the best kind of community where race, sexual orientation, religion, and nationality don't matter anymore. Because for once were not concentrating on what makes us different but what make us the same.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: If your work is worthy people will donate. If that's not good enough for you take up needle point.

Crashloop wrote: @MrJoseCuervo
In theory you are spot on, however theory doesn't match reality.. If I put up a ad saying I will take pictures for you, you donate money if you like my work and want to donate. How many would you think actually donated? As a hobby photographer I cannot and will not work for free unless it's benefits me. Majority of people want stuff for free it's that simple.

bungdorji wrote: I definetely agree, if your work has a best result, people will donate willingly, but if not im sure they wont

dpgillam wrote: A) craft fair people are selling a finished, stable, working product. Not a beta, not a "maybe" not a "well it works on MY computer" line of Bull. You want me to pay you for something that has a significant chance of not working. In the US (and most the civilized world) its illegal to sell defective goods knowingly, and anything based on skyrim's bugged up system is defective, by default.

B) Im paying you? Then I expect to get what I pay for. The mod had better look EXACTLY like the pictures (false advertising is a crime) I have the right to tech support (Federal lemon laws) For as long as the game is maintained you must keep your mod up to date. And, as poor Chesko found out, you have no control over your mod. Its not "ebul compnies" as you suggest, its simple business, and the fact that the average person is clueless enough to think the world works like they see on tv. :roll:

C) Craft fair people dont steal each other's "IP"? Ever notice how much nearly-identical garbage is strewn across the tables? We have thousands of magazines per hobby telling you how to make the junk that the flea marketers are selling. For there to be a fair comparison to modding, you would have to publish a magazine monthly with all the code for the best mods as freeware, deny the concept of IP ever existing, and THEN try to sell your art. You have a fantasy notion of craft fairs. a few people are as warm and fuzzy as your delusion. Most are just noral. And then there are the financially motivated. In all, you'll find the same attitudes and temperments as you find here.

UberSmaug wrote: I agree. IF you pay for something it should be of good quality. If you are selling something you should stand by it and provide support for your customers. False advertising is a crime, lemon laws and all that are good. I still support all of my free mods and will continue to do so. I've never said otherwise.

I was only trying to bring light to the fact that being a hobbyist should not exclude you from seeking profit for the things you produce. Its done everyday all across the world. If all mods are as broken as you imply why would you want them even if they are free. If skyrim is so bugged that all mods are junk why are you playing it at all.

Your last comment proves my point even more. Even with money involved people are still willing to share ideas, assist their fellow hobbyist, share assetss, make tutorials, look at each others work and say "awe man that's good but I bet I can improve on that." Some people sell kits for others to assemble and in turn sell again. Those financially motivated are sitting right next to those who are not. Yet the system still functions. Its not a fantasy, I may be hamming up the love and good will stuff a bit. That much warm and fuzzy makes me a little sick. But I'll settle for just moral.

I Ask again. How is modding any different? Why is ok for these people to sell their wares and we can not?

x9fallen wrote: I don't believe there is a corporation running the craft fairs and taking 75%. As someone who has donated getting close to $1k to various modders/content makers, that was my biggest complaint about the system.

Do I want to financially support modders when I can? Damn right. Do I want to give 75% of that money to Valve and Bethesda? Hell no.

UberSmaug wrote: Absolutely there is an organizer. And there is a vendor fee which is divided between that organizer and the venue where the event is held, be it a Church parking lot or a convention center. The amount of that fee varies greatly. In this case it is a flat fee, for mods it would be a percentage of total sales My question is not is the split fair or not. (Please read the Forbs piece and Bethesda blog concerning that if you have not already. Those numbers were not set in stone.)

After reading the Forbs and Bethesda blog I feel the absolute best split we could hope to see would be 30% valve standard digital distribution fee, 35% Bethesda 35% to the Modder. More realistically 40% Bethesda 30% Modder. Maybe service provider 5% is volunteered from the modders share. Mod authors would always be getting less than half but still potentially more than a studio developer (counting in heath care and yada, yada, yada, evens that out a bit). and I am personally ok with that. To those who say they would pay for mods but this first offer is unfair. Would a 5%-10% increase to the modders + modders donate to service providers be enough to change your mind?

singlebelong wrote: @MrJoseCuervo
This "If your work is worthy people will donate" thought is really hurts, like after all the hard work I made a bunch of worthless junky mods.

========================

I'm so disappointed about this fiasco, maybe this is why my friends told me "modding is fool around. It is a hobby and it can only be a hobby. You cant build a career you cant earn a decent life, you cannot even make a living! Come and get a job you damn fool, we can use a 3D model artist!"

They are right, I'm wrong. Maybe now is the time to make things right.

This is not a victory, everybody is lose.

Tyerial12 wrote: you went into that wanting to make money..

people made mods before money was even thought of for free..

Soon as money gets involved most all good mods go to pay to have and then full of junk crap mods aswell.

Leaving the free community with jack crap and they say it wont kill the free community ha! sooner or later people will get tired of the crap mods being made for free because the good modders are filling there pockets with green.

Money corrupted this community.. i just hope it can recover

and before i get flamed.. i do support mod authors getting donations and not forcing us to buy a it may work mod sorry but my opinion

lesliewifeofbath wrote: I totally agree with you. This site kicked off a pretty terrific mod some time ago for some pretty stupid reasons, even after the developer tried to make things right.

Methinks Dark One protests too much.

SaraphanLord wrote: Only that has been shown to be false in the real market again and again. Their are several non-profit restaurants that have shown that people are generally good and will pay people for services that they value. For example the Non-Profit Panera Restaurant has shown in a recent report that roughly 60% of people pay the suggested cost of what they eat were 20% pay more then what is suggested and the other 20% pay less or nothing. Ultimately it balances out for them. Now not all of the businesses see that it works out like that, some fail and some succeeded and that's not all the different from mods being popular or remaining obscure forever. but a business has many other factors that clue into success or failure out side of the clients paying for the service. So the similarities start to end once you look beyond the customer end of the business.

My point is that your assumption that people want free things is more or less false. When the service is worth it to the person they will be more then happy to pay. So how does this apply to mods? Have a donations button and a suggested price listed next to it based on work done and a mind for what the consumer would be able to easily pay. Modders would be able to see a lot of mileage out of such practices I would think.

Edit: this was in reply to statments made by Crashloop and UberSmaug

I do agree with you a little bit, but only just. While I do believe anyone has a right to sell something they make and earn a profit for their work; introducing money/economics/finances as a factor into anything, complicates things and generally leads to greed, corruption, and more. Such things need to be taken into consideration before we fully embrace this new concept. This is particularly a concern to us when it has to do with software and especially video games. Now I'm not saying that this negative side of money is going to turn everyone into some bad person who's only interest is self-interest, but it will infect(metaphorically speaking) most. It's already happened time and time again with regard to areas other than modding is concerned.

I guarantee you that for every little bit of good (yes, I admit it will do *some* good) this will do for the "community", it will do much more for the worse. It WILL eventually push free mods to the wayside, making free options marginal at best. Not right away, but give it time. Maybe a year. Maybe even two, but it will happen. The "DRMification" as Dark0ne put it seems inevitable as well.

When you said "All these posts about evil gaming companies trying to scam people and rip you off is the highest form of disrespect." I thought it was funny. It's a little hard to read someone's tone from text, but it's pretty clear you were deliberately using the word "evil" sarcastically as if to imply that people speaking out against the gaming industry and it's well-known tactics are all just exaggerating or speaking nonsense. Yeah, actually... said companies DO often try to rip off it's very own loyal customers. It's absolutely naive to think anything otherwise. It's also very wrong to suggest that people posting comments that put these companies in a negative light are somehow out of line. They have every right to. On top of that, using terms like "highest form"... really?... really?!...REALLY?! Even the word "disrespect" seems out of place here.

I'm not sure how to take your comment "If not for Bethesda and Valve and Nexus and all the others there would be no mods, let alone a game to play at all.". The words "and all the others" which you conveniently tacked on is very broad and/or vague, so I can't can't really reply to that with any certainty, but I'm sure I don't have to tell you or anyone that Valve and Bethesda are far from the source of all gaming and mods related. It does though almost sound as if you're saying we all owe them a debt of gratitude. That can't be it though, not when one could easily argue the reverse. That would just be silly. Furthermore, there are far more important companies and factors that laid the groundwork and still play very important roles in gaming, mods, etc.

As for the notion of a modder strike - that's a bit naive too. Especially now that modders are being given an incentive.

One last thing and this may come across as cynical and possibly even harsh, but I feel compelled to say it. That last paragraph of yours made me gag a little it was so over the top with the whole after cheesy, after school special, togetherness vibe.

[HadToRegister]

remember when modding was simply about the pleasure of contributing to the community development of a game without all the confusion and fuss? Pepperidge farm remembers...

 

From Canadian Ice's "Modder's Realm" website

 

 

Creating modifications (mods) is a hobby. We don't do it for fame or glory, but for the fun of creating. We make stuff that we like, the way we like it. The level of detail, color and features that go into it are to suit our own tastes. If others like it, it's a bonus.

So if you like our creations, download them and use them with our blessing. If you don't like them, go somewhere else... please. We have neither the time nor the desire to listen to endless petty gripes and complaints. If it doesn't suit you, feel free to exercise your right to not use them. It's that simple.

 

That's WHY people started modding Skyrim a year before the Creation Kit was even released.

FOR THE LOVE OF MODDING

 

Hell, I just spent the last two weeks setting up Skyrim and Oblivion with Mod Organizer (SOOOO Glad I did), and am currently playing the most awesome looking version of Morrowind thanks to WryeMash and Mlox

It's a super frustrating thing to do, but sometimes just setting up the game with a S***-ton of mods and getting them to work together IS part of the fun of playing Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind.

[ZoeS17]

I'm going to college in the states for a bachelor's in computer science majoring in computer programming. I intend to make that my main job but I would code NMM, the DBs, and mobile apps, as I could even starting now for free. I would sign an NDA too because to me it's for the community and not for me. I cannot provide any coding samples as of yet which is the only reason I haven't sent an official email to the Nexus legal and administrative teams. I must say I agree with the current motives and actions as posed in the above news article. I do understand how easy it would be for the server network to crash and/or become inoperable due to fiscal reasons.