Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[Riprock]

In response to post #24669944. #24670159, #24670729, #24670889 are all replies on the same post.

Riprock wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: We have. Repeatedly. There's nothing more we can do on that front. Bethesda will not issue a statement on the matter.

Riprock wrote: To begin, when I say "you" in my response I do not mean *you personally*. I mean the figurative *you*- meaning everybody reading.

Your goal seems to be "try to make Bethesda respond to us". That should not be the goal.

The goal should be making sure Bethesda hears you LOUD and CLEAR and with a definite message, not a bunch of complaints about communities and the ethos of modding. What Bethesda is doing- and it seems to be working, if you just say "we tried, they won't respond" - is to ignore you in the hopes of making you go away. To patiently wait until you get bored with telling them.

Firstly, since this was announced the other day, seems like you're giving up really fast, and it seems the reason is because you didn't get instant gratification on the outcome.

Secondly, even if I assume you've done this for ten years, you're telling me "there's nothing more we can do". Sure there is, the problem is that the desired outcome wasn't more than to make somebody respond. If you expect a 'statement' to be the end-game, you had no victory strategy in mind to begin with. All that amounts to is "Bethesda states that they understand we're unhappy". Frankly, big deal!

The bottom line is that you're now talking about business matters (like it or not) and you're trying to get your desired outcome by having a company make a business decision based on your emotional response.

Souperintendent wrote: It's more Valve's fault than Bethesda's.

Sure, but Valve is a provider. If Bethesda feels a provider doesn't have the right business model....

[bigdeano89]

In response to post #24670979.

BarkLicker wrote:

All the proof you should need is to look at not only the sheer number of mods on the Skyrim site, but across ALL Nexus sites.

[smon67]

I don't often post but many thanks Dark0ne, for all your time & effort (and all others involved here),

& thankyou for being as open as you can.

Cancelling a long awaited holiday shows your commitment straight away let alone informing us all of the ongoing saga.

 

On a lighter note,,,,,, you thought about going into politics,,,,, you would be better than the tools (that we all pay for by the way,,,,lol) in charge of the UK now or in the upcoming election.

 

Peace out all

[Warrior84]

In response to post #24669944. #24670159, #24670729, #24670889, #24671169 are all replies on the same post.

Riprock wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: We have. Repeatedly. There's nothing more we can do on that front. Bethesda will not issue a statement on the matter.

Riprock wrote: To begin, when I say "you" in my response I do not mean *you personally*. I mean the figurative *you*- meaning everybody reading.

Your goal seems to be "try to make Bethesda respond to us". That should not be the goal.

The goal should be making sure Bethesda hears you LOUD and CLEAR and with a definite message, not a bunch of complaints about communities and the ethos of modding. What Bethesda is doing- and it seems to be working, if you just say "we tried, they won't respond" - is to ignore you in the hopes of making you go away. To patiently wait until you get bored with telling them.

Firstly, since this was announced the other day, seems like you're giving up really fast, and it seems the reason is because you didn't get instant gratification on the outcome.

Secondly, even if I assume you've done this for ten years, you're telling me "there's nothing more we can do". Sure there is, the problem is that the desired outcome wasn't more than to make somebody respond. If you expect a 'statement' to be the end-game, you had no victory strategy in mind to begin with. All that amounts to is "Bethesda states that they understand we're unhappy". Frankly, big deal!

The bottom line is that you're now talking about business matters (like it or not) and you're trying to get your desired outcome by having a company make a business decision based on your emotional response.

Souperintendent wrote: It's more Valve's fault than Bethesda's.

Riprock wrote: Sure, but Valve is a provider. If Bethesda feels a provider doesn't have the right business model....

Perhaps it is Zenimax's fault?

[Riprock]

Another thing I feel I'm seeing here is people essentially stating that their problem is with Dark0ne.

 

The perception seems to be that we all discovered this great free website with Dark0ne, and it was called the Nexus. It was just here, like some island undiscovered in the ocean. He had an idea to make it home to free mods, and we all chipped in with him to provide support and content, and the unspoken agreement was that nobody made money, it was all free. Very Utopian in fact.

 

The reality is that Dark0ne created it. And now that there's an issue with 'pay for mods', people seem to have a hard time seeing that the Valve/Bethesda 'pay for mods' issue and how Dark0ne's *always been running the Nexus* are *NOT* the same thing.

 

Dark0ne has been running the site for a long time. Did you ever have to pay for a mod here? NO. This tempest in a teacup we have now is also a circumstance in which you are not paying anything. The filthy money we're complaining about is a voluntary percentage of what the evil empire you dislike is making, when the modder voluntarily chooses to allow that evil empire to make that money in the first place. Feeding the Beast, right? Power to the People and all that. Check.

 

....but how two faced does this feel to me? I see modders accepting donations! That's money too. Ah but it's not going to Valve, right. Gotcha. But make up your minds folks. If you accept the idea of money exchanging hands at all, then your moral high ground of "free modding" takes a tumble by definition.

 

When we first saw donations for mods, some people saw this potential outcome, this thing we have now. It was nay-said and shouted down. Well, here we are. Dark0ne is responding to the situation, he did not create it. And he sure didn't sign an agreement with anyone here that said "I pledge to never get recompense for my site's traffic". I am surprised at many people here. When I got to a popular website and I see ads on it and I think there's no monetary aspect, I'm pretty naive.

 

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #24670979. #24671269 is also a reply to the same post.

BarkLicker wrote:

bigdeano89 wrote: All the proof you should need is to look at not only the sheer number of mods on the Skyrim site, but across ALL Nexus sites.

I noticed an anonymous "mod author" said they were removing all their mods from the Nexus on Reddit last night while claiming to have some sort of knowledge of the figures behind the Nexus. Unless he's hacked the site, the only person who knows those figures are me. When I woke up this morning with a few Reddit messages from people using my username in the thread, I arrived to find the author had deleted their thread and their account. I think that probably says it all...

However, I don't think sharing the Nexus CDN bandwidth graphs for the past month hurts anyone, so here you go. This is just CDN file download bandwidth. It does not include the bandwidth Premium Members use, the bandwidth the sites themselves use, or the bandwidth that comes from our Static image servers (of which we have eight) that serve all the images. They add an extra 2Gbps, or so, on to it, and ideally we need to get the images on to a CDN of their own now as using 8 dedicated servers for images is a horribly inefficient waste of our staff time. We use Highwinds as our CDN, not some cheap and nasty budget basement supplier. If it's good enough for Valve to use, it's probably good enough for us.

There's so many other things that really add up as well. For example, last year we were DDoS'd hundreds of times. Sometimes it worked and brought down the site, other times it didn't. What did I do? Saved up and invested a relative crap-ton, with the help of our ISP, on a really heavy duty Firewall. Guess what? We've already out grown it because the more defence you get, the bigger botnets "hackers" use to attack you with. We can't stop the big ones, but we've managed to prevent a lot of the smaller DDoS's from getting through. Which is much better than before. But the point is, that costs money, a lot of money, money that needs to accumulated as profit before it can be spent as an expense. So I see lots of accusations being thrown around from people who really, really, have no clue. Edited April 26, 2015 by Dark0ne

[nekollx]

the big difereence, at least as i see it ,between donations and Valve is

1) you arent REQuired to dinate to use the mod

2) the donations aren't PER mod but rather per Author as a way of saying "keep up the good work" and less "I like this mod in particular"

 

Let me present a question, say there's a modder out there who makes the next...oh i dunno FNIS, some amazing new mod that changes the landscape of the moding scene, they also make a small mod that changes one perk by 20%, and a 3rd mod that *ahem* targeted to a more delicate audience and can thus only upload it to Lovers Lab. Does your donation reresent support of Skyawesome only? That what sparked your interest after all but as it's a donation it's really supporting all three, obviously money talks though so if 75% of all this moddewrs income ceomes from donations brounf from LL more LL like content would be produced and in the future you might stop donating but when a 3 factions are getting support your donation is really supporting all 3 not just SkyAwesome

[nekollx]

 

In response to post #24670979. #24671269 is also a reply to the same post.

 

 

 

BarkLicker wrote:

bigdeano89 wrote: All the proof you should need is to look at not only the sheer number of mods on the Skyrim site, but across ALL Nexus sites.

I noticed an anonymous "mod author" said they were removing all their mods from the Nexus on Reddit last night while claiming to have some sort of knowledge of the figures behind the Nexus. Unless he's hacked the site, the only person who knows those figures are me. When I woke up this morning with a few Reddit messages from people using my username in the thread, I arrived to find the author had deleted their thread and their account. I think that probably says it all...

 

However, I don't think sharing the Nexus CDN bandwidth graphs for the past month hurts anyone, so here you go. This is just CDN file download bandwidth. It does not include the bandwidth Premium Members use, the bandwidth the sites themselves use, or the bandwidth that comes from our Static image servers (of which we have eight) that serve all the images. They add an extra 2Gbps, or so, on to it, and ideally we need to get the images on to a CDN of their own now as using 8 dedicated servers for images is a horribly inefficient waste of our staff time. We use Highwinds as our CDN, not some cheap and nasty budget basement supplier. If it's good enough for Valve to use, it's probably good enough for us.

 

There's so many other things that really add up as well. For example, last year we were DDoS'd hundreds of times. Sometimes it worked and brought down the site, other times it didn't. What did I do? Saved up and invested a relative crap-ton, with the help of our ISP, on a really heavy duty Firewall. Guess what? We've already out grown it because the more defence you get, the bigger botnets "hackers" use to attack you with. We can't stop the big ones, but we've managed to prevent a lot of the smaller DDoS's from getting through. Which is much better than before. But the point is, that costs money, a lot of money, money that needs to accumulated as profit before it can be spent as an expense. So I see lots of accusations being thrown around from people who really, really, have no clue.

 

again

 

*internet hug*

[youdojo]

In response to post #24669944. #24670159, #24670729, #24670889, #24671169, #24671494 are all replies on the same post.

Riprock wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: We have. Repeatedly. There's nothing more we can do on that front. Bethesda will not issue a statement on the matter.

Riprock wrote: To begin, when I say "you" in my response I do not mean *you personally*. I mean the figurative *you*- meaning everybody reading.

Your goal seems to be "try to make Bethesda respond to us". That should not be the goal.

The goal should be making sure Bethesda hears you LOUD and CLEAR and with a definite message, not a bunch of complaints about communities and the ethos of modding. What Bethesda is doing- and it seems to be working, if you just say "we tried, they won't respond" - is to ignore you in the hopes of making you go away. To patiently wait until you get bored with telling them.

Firstly, since this was announced the other day, seems like you're giving up really fast, and it seems the reason is because you didn't get instant gratification on the outcome.

Secondly, even if I assume you've done this for ten years, you're telling me "there's nothing more we can do". Sure there is, the problem is that the desired outcome wasn't more than to make somebody respond. If you expect a 'statement' to be the end-game, you had no victory strategy in mind to begin with. All that amounts to is "Bethesda states that they understand we're unhappy". Frankly, big deal!

The bottom line is that you're now talking about business matters (like it or not) and you're trying to get your desired outcome by having a company make a business decision based on your emotional response.

Souperintendent wrote: It's more Valve's fault than Bethesda's.

Riprock wrote: Sure, but Valve is a provider. If Bethesda feels a provider doesn't have the right business model....

Warrior84 wrote: Perhaps it is Zenimax's fault?

In the end it all comes down to Bethesda, if they want the "pay" feature to be removed, it will be. Because in the end they hold most of the cards when it comes to "who has the rights to do what with their game". Valve is just a middleman (but that of course doesn't excuse some of its actions on this subject too).

On a more personal note, I believe the Nexus option for donations is much better than just selling a mod. But this will not fly with Bethesda/Valve because they get less/no cut of the money if it is a donation, however they can take a cut if they are selling the mod on behalf of the modder (because legally they can take a cut because they are providing a service where they sell and host the mod).

It almost always comes down to money. Valve (which to many) seemed like the beacon of light in a market full of money grabbing companies (easy example EA). Now they seem to be slowly turning into the complete opposite of what they stood for, and like most companies, forgetting who it was who supported them and made them what they are now. Edited April 26, 2015 by youdojo

[Penfold187]

 

In response to post #24670979. #24671269 is also a reply to the same post.

 

 

 

BarkLicker wrote:

bigdeano89 wrote: All the proof you should need is to look at not only the sheer number of mods on the Skyrim site, but across ALL Nexus sites.

I noticed an anonymous "mod author" said they were removing all their mods from the Nexus on Reddit last night while claiming to have some sort of knowledge of the figures behind the Nexus. Unless he's hacked the site, the only person who knows those figures are me. When I woke up this morning with a few Reddit messages from people using my username in the thread, I arrived to find the author had deleted their thread and their account. I think that probably says it all...

 

However, I don't think sharing the Nexus CDN bandwidth graphs for the past month hurts anyone, so here you go. This is just CDN file download bandwidth. It does not include the bandwidth Premium Members use, the bandwidth the sites themselves use, or the bandwidth that comes from our Static image servers (of which we have eight) that serve all the images. They add an extra 2Gbps, or so, on to it, and ideally we need to get the images on to a CDN of their own now as using 8 dedicated servers for images is a horribly inefficient waste of our staff time. We use Highwinds as our CDN, not some cheap and nasty budget basement supplier. If it's good enough for Valve to use, it's probably good enough for us.

 

There's so many other things that really add up as well. For example, last year we were DDoS'd hundreds of times. Sometimes it worked and brought down the site, other times it didn't. What did I do? Saved up and invested a relative crap-ton, with the help of our ISP, on a really heavy duty Firewall. Guess what? We've already out grown it because the more defence you get, the bigger botnets "hackers" use to attack you with. We can't stop the big ones, but we've managed to prevent a lot of the smaller DDoS's from getting through. Which is much better than before. But the point is, that costs money, a lot of money, money that needs to accumulated as profit before it can be spent as an expense. So I see lots of accusations being thrown around from people who really, really, have no clue.

 

 

 

In response to post #24670979. #24671269 is also a reply to the same post.

 

 

 

BarkLicker wrote:

bigdeano89 wrote: All the proof you should need is to look at not only the sheer number of mods on the Skyrim site, but across ALL Nexus sites.

I noticed an anonymous "mod author" said they were removing all their mods from the Nexus on Reddit last night while claiming to have some sort of knowledge of the figures behind the Nexus. Unless he's hacked the site, the only person who knows those figures are me. When I woke up this morning with a few Reddit messages from people using my username in the thread, I arrived to find the author had deleted their thread and their account. I think that probably says it all...

 

However, I don't think sharing the Nexus CDN bandwidth graphs for the past month hurts anyone, so here you go. This is just CDN file download bandwidth. It does not include the bandwidth Premium Members use, the bandwidth the sites themselves use, or the bandwidth that comes from our Static image servers (of which we have eight) that serve all the images. They add an extra 2Gbps, or so, on to it, and ideally we need to get the images on to a CDN of their own now as using 8 dedicated servers for images is a horribly inefficient waste of our staff time. We use Highwinds as our CDN, not some cheap and nasty budget basement supplier. If it's good enough for Valve to use, it's probably good enough for us.

 

There's so many other things that really add up as well. For example, last year we were DDoS'd hundreds of times. Sometimes it worked and brought down the site, other times it didn't. What did I do? Saved up and invested a relative crap-ton, with the help of our ISP, on a really heavy duty Firewall. Guess what? We've already out grown it because the more defence you get, the bigger botnets "hackers" use to attack you with. We can't stop the big ones, but we've managed to prevent a lot of the smaller DDoS's from getting through. Which is much better than before. But the point is, that costs money, a lot of money, money that needs to accumulated as profit before it can be spent as an expense. So I see lots of accusations being thrown around from people who really, really, have no clue.

 

 

Tis the joys of running and maintaining a service, many view as a basic right and not a gift.

 

To those whom object to the manner Nexus is operated, you do have the choice of building a rival or using one the many alternate services present. I have at times, had issue with certain practices of the site and some of its moderators, but the key factor is I have no right or expectation that my viewpoint should have more weight than those who run and administer the site. By joining this site I agreed to certain terms and conditions, it is my responsibility to abide by that agreement. Should I breach the t&c's there are consequences, potentially up to my being banned, I understood this when I signed up to the service.