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Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

Dark0ne

By Dark0ne
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Azradun Rookie

Azradun

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In response to post #24750659. #24751234, #24751479, #24751989, #24752184, #24752194, #24752214, #24752369, #24752499, #24752619, #24752624, #24752694, #24752819, #24752834, #24752854, #24752944, #24753079, #24753134, #24753249, #24755354, #24755649, #24755674, #24755734 are all replies on the same post.


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@njits

It's bad that Chesko got death threats. It's also bad that he tried to sell something based on other's work in a community that's built on sharing.

And he clearly knew what he was doing, but thought "oh, what the hell, maybe I can get away with it".
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Nidhoegger Newbie

Nidhoegger

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In response to post #24742594. #24742759, #24742849, #24742924, #24742934, #24743009, #24743059, #24743149, #24743254, #24743299, #24743359, #24743449, #24743474, #24743514, #24743524, #24743584, #24743604, #24743624, #24743724, #24743739, #24743769, #24743774, #24743884, #24743929, #24743984, #24744049, #24744139, #24744159, #24744279, #24744479, #24744519, #24744574, #24744719, #24744789, #24744794, #24744929, #24744964, #24744989, #24745004, #24745054, #24745174, #24745279, #24745339, #24745449, #24745494, #24745729, #24745734, #24745839, #24745939, #24746154, #24746294, #24746544, #24746674, #24746704, #24746719, #24747064, #24747169, #24747379, #24747459, #24747514, #24747554, #24747774, #24747799, #24747909, #24748204, #24748329, #24748344, #24748534, #24748849, #24749024, #24749029, #24749224, #24749279, #24749419, #24750314, #24751879, #24752384, #24752494, #24752744, #24753274, #24753624, #24753979, #24754244, #24754444, #24754479, #24754484, #24754654 are all replies on the same post.


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You're overreacting and your assessment is grossly flawed.

People are correct to criticise Valve's distribution methode and payment plan in whatever manner they see fit. Content of criticism in this case matters less than volume.

The 25% payment plan is a horrendous rip-off and with the lack of content control, Valve had opened itself to the exact same case megaupload.com did a good while back. Browsing your own mods, I see that you have foreign IPs in there. If you were to charge for the Sword Of Truth, you would also be part of that investigation when it comes, and on the wrong end of it. Intellectual property laws are more than a can of worms, they are a bottomless pit of despair. Once money is in the picture, things can get horrendously ugly and disproportionate. Criticism of the modus operandi is thus more than valid.

IF you wish recompensation for modules, you have two sane avenues:

1) Donations. Be nice to your customers (once you want money, they are customers, and interactions fundamentally change; that is simply how it is) and don't be a prat, and especially deliver quality that many people like, and people will donate. Realise it will never be enough to finance your modding, unless you somehow make the next Star Citizen. Realise modding is still a hobby, and always will be, because you cannot garuantee yourself a proper income.

2) Talk to the IP holders of the software you wish to mod. Have a proper concept and enough work already done to prove it viable. Use the words "new DLC". If you present yourself well, you will be able to legally profit off this, and the slew of copywrite laws are avoided on the destributor's side by making it an official DLC.

In closing, the vitriol experienced in these past few days is only partly the byproduct of changing the relationship from peer-related and social to provider and consumer. Once you as a mod-maker are seen as a provider, people treat you differently. However, paid mods also attack established "traditions" and poison the well. The reaction and backlash to this is to be expected,and will scatter and hit more or less innocent bystanders as well, because once the mob is unleashed, anyone who gets called a witch gets burnt.

This does not make the "mob" or everyone who justifiably complained and went active against this a bad person or a troll. This does not mean they are suddenly against mod makers. But with the above post, FavouredSoul, you have certainly ensured that a fair share will be against -you-. A smarter choice would be not to speak out and, like our own Helmut Kohl for decades here, just sit it out.
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aegiltheugly Apprentice

aegiltheugly

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I think if anyone has screwed the mod makers it is Bethesda and Valve buy jumping into the middle of an established community where things have potentially been free and assets have been shared, implementing a poorly executed system, dangling the potential for monetary rewards in front mod makers and resources like The Nexus so they would go along and then yanking the monetary rewards away when the established community reacted negatively. Of course mod makers would like the potential for extra income from what has essentially been a hobby and of course users were going to complain about suddenly being charged for something that was formerly free. It's human nature. I imagine if there is an Elder Scrolls VI or a Fallout IV paid mods will be a feature from the beginning. Until then if everybody wants to be pissed they should be pissed at Bethesda and Valve for screwing with a system that worked and trying to grab such a large share of the money for themselves.
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SiniVII Rising Star

SiniVII

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In response to post #24748294. #24748909, #24748959, #24749014, #24749054, #24749074, #24749089, #24749114, #24749169, #24749269, #24749289, #24749409, #24749439, #24749529, #24749564, #24749574, #24749674, #24749709, #24749814, #24749884, #24749889, #24749954, #24750114, #24750204, #24750249, #24750254, #24750279, #24750544, #24750564, #24750709, #24750814, #24750904, #24751449, #24751489, #24751899, #24751974, #24752079, #24752334, #24752454, #24753799, #24754219, #24754259, #24754609, #24754739, #24754979, #24755419, #24755704, #24755774 are all replies on the same post.


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@mcguffin

The only thing those 10 percents show is that the endorsement system is inadequate as a praise measurement, and is not something you should use as a base for your argument.
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sdupp Newbie

sdupp

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In response to post #24748294. #24748909, #24748959, #24749014, #24749054, #24749074, #24749089, #24749114, #24749169, #24749269, #24749289, #24749409, #24749439, #24749529, #24749564, #24749574, #24749674, #24749709, #24749814, #24749884, #24749889, #24749954, #24750114, #24750204, #24750249, #24750254, #24750279, #24750544, #24750564, #24750709, #24750814, #24750904, #24751449, #24751489, #24751899, #24751974, #24752079, #24752334, #24752454, #24753799, #24754219, #24754259, #24754609, #24754739, #24754979, #24755419, #24755704, #24755774, #24755999 are all replies on the same post.


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@ mannygt Agree with your post, but i don't think it was the only reason for some modders to sell mods as a greedy modder.
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Xenoshi Contributor

Xenoshi

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  On 4/28/2015 at 2:35 PM, Azradun said:

 

In response to post #24755029. #24755484 is also a reply to the same post.

 

 

 

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They had so many downloads and endorsements that they were personaly approched by Valve and Bethesda to take part in their clandestine operation. Do you think, who gave them those downloads and endorsements? The "entitled" people of the community did. Sure they does great work (albeit I personally don't like SkyUI).

 

Would I pay 1$ for their work? Yes I would. Would I pay 4$, including 3$ for Bethesda and Valve? No way in hell.

 

I'll prove it next week when I'll get my salary - I'll donate to my favourite authors.

 

Yes yes, because heavens forbid the distributor should take their traditional cut (30%) and the Publisher, without whom there would be no mods or any community or any game, should get any money as well. Instead, you should absolutely donate 1 almost-insulting dollar to your 'favorite authors' instead of advancing the industry toward something that could actually make it better. Nevermind the fact that without permission from Bethesda your "favorite authors" technically can't receive a dime for their work, even if you try and obfuscate it as a donation. At worst you're willfully violating their copyright and ToS by paying a modder for work they've done on an unlicensed derivative. Just because you call it a donation doesn't change the fact that they're making a financial gain on something they no longer have the rights to make a financial gain on (thanks to you people, no less.) I'm sure the "No, your honor, those were donations and wholly unrelated to the modifications I created!" defense will totally hold up in a court.

 

No no, better we all just decry capitalism like we're all angry teenagers who stumbled upon Karl Marx's manifesto for the first time.

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Fowldragon

Fowldragon

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" In a gaming industry that was and is running further and further away from modding. We shouldn't have had reason to doubt them, but unfortunately a lack of good communication with the community at large prior to releasing the tools has completely bewildered the entire community and contributed in a big part to the resounding amount of resentment towards the new system."

 

Does it strike anyone else, that given the Enabling through the SDK's Bethesda provided that Dark' has cited and the events of the last couple days, something MORE than a "Communication failure" occurred?

 

Dark' opines that the explanation they ended with would have served them far better if they'd offered it from the 'GIT'. That was the response they chose because they must now mend fences and endeavor to heal wounds ...it isn't simply their 3rd/4th bite at the apple to explain the reasoning for their decisions. Its a mea culpa; of course it is going to be more honed. they see the response to their actions NOW.

 

It just seems to me that their move to do this all of a sudden was chosen BECAUSE Dark' and others were already speaking about changes to STEAM... the Beta...the lifting of the mod size restriction. Dark's Blog post was spot on. Bethesda chose as a result to NOT wait..and the ONLY reason one can guess for that decision, must be MONEY.

Edited by Fowldragon
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evasianl Newbie

evasianl

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Im glad we won and all who in favor lost. Im specially pleased seeing still some who want it back but it never comes back.

 

The modding scene want free bastion of creators and users freely distribute mods no money involved as it should be.

 

YOU ALL IN FAVOR OF PAID MODS YOU LOST GET OVER IT OR SEEK ANOTHER HOBBY YOU CAN MONEYTIZE.

 

Free for ever as some already made a mod for kudo's to him.

 

Donation if you wanne give money is ok.

Edited by evasianl
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WaltC Apprentice

WaltC

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  On 4/28/2015 at 3:16 AM, Korodic said:

 

 

  On 4/28/2015 at 3:14 AM, Robomac88 said:

Great news! So now the best thing is the community reaffirming support for the mod authors involved, especially Chesko and Isoku. While we may not agree with their actions, we cannot fully blame them for taking a risk on an opportunity that sounded like every mod author's dream. Donations and such will show some of our best mod authors that they will always be a vital part of this community. Nothing can make up for all the immature hate they received, be we should do what we can to show all is well again.

 

sunshinenbrick, it's nice that you donated to someone. Me personally, I've only ever received 1 donation despite 1000+ endorsements.

 

By no means did I get into modding for the $, but I am just proving the point that donations systems earnings don't equal the time you put in. I have 2,000 hours logged on the creation kit. The option to host paid mods could have really made a difference to someone like me. By no means would every mod cost $ either, but the larger ones could.

 

We could have tried to renegotiate the price split, but now the system is gone forever.

 

 

 

 

I've put thousands of hours into playing games and writing about them in various forums over the past few decades; does that entitle me to a paycheck of some kind? No, it doesn't--not at all. If modding has become more of a chore for you than "fun" (remember that word?), then:

 

What's stopping you from incorporating and setting up your own mod site and selling your mods? Nothing, as far as I can see. So if you want to be a one-man show (and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that) then that's your option if you want to turn your fun into profits.

 

But I think the real issue here is that some people were of a mind that somehow the Steam Workshop would make them millionaires for very little effort on their part--and they could care less about the fact that they'd be getting 25-cents on the dollar for every dollar Valve took in, and sure, they'd accept that because "millions of people" frequent Steam and that means $$$. I guess that what I'm saying is that if you want to transition from "fun" to business then everything in your modding life is going to change, drastically. There'll be no more of “I'll try and fix it when I can.” That will change to people demanding you do thus and such because they “paid” for your mod—you might even find yourself on the receiving end of a class-action lawsuit if you aren't careful. You'll have to really watch every single word you say about your mods—any promises you make, etc. IE, the people who paid $4 for your mod (out of which you get $1 from Valve) will think that they own you, lock, stock, and barrel.

 

Food for thought...word to the wise, etc.

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