Vesuvius1745 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Entitlement: Mod authors are NOT entitled to sell their mods. Sorry, but you aren't. Mod authors have utilized every aspect of Bethesda's Intellectual Property from start to finish, and by clicking the "I agree" to their EULA you have entered into a contract, and it's up to Bethesda to decide what you are or are not allowed to do with that derivative creation. The customers who bought the original Skyrim DO have the right to express their displeasure to Bethesda about a pay-for mod system on Steam. Bethesda can choose to ignore that, but in this case, they listened to the people who pay their salaries. The users on the Nexus do NOT have a right to free mods. Mod authors do NOT have to create mods and give them to the community. If you are a user and you DO want free mods, then you might want to donate to mod authors, or at least be nice to them and endorse. If you are a mod author who wants to get paid: the horse is dead. Get a job at a game company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesuvius1745 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 In response to post #24852949. #24853204, #24853924, #24853949, #24854139, #24856504, #24857199, #24857919, #24858264 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: Look here, how the subject is discussed...http://www.moddb.com/news/the-uncertain-future-of-paid-modsA more rational and calm way of debating about modding and community.Mean time people... watch the numbers, Nexus is bleeding mods and authors EVERY day and the numbers of hidden mods are growing at a frightening rate.And don't tell me that that ALL those authors are money hunger... they are just disgusted about what happened this days and it still continue.Among other, Fallout 3 lost an extraordinary quest and adventure series...Endless walls of words, meaningless words, just watch the numbers and maybe you will begin to understand what is ALREADY happening.What a victory... Quote ramccoid wrote: @CaladanAnduril Well said. It's time to give it a rest, why keep trying to flog a dead horse. What's done is done, let's move on and see what can be salvaged from this whole sordid mess. Quote Xavathos wrote: Well said.It is indeed sad to see the damage that has been done in the last week, but it is not too late. :) Quote aegiltheugly wrote: I keep seeing that claim (mostly from the same people) but I haven't seen any data to back it up. How about some verifiable information rather than some generalized claims. Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: Xavathos who could know how late it is ?Tnx the storyteller01 I read an excellent article ( link in his post below).You should read it...Quote" It's common to see the community tear at itself over Valve’s policies, but the users persecuting the modders was new, and has created a rift that is still fresh and may remain here for a long time". Quote woodrobin wrote: There was anger at Valve and Bethesda for taking 75% of the money for mods were, other than releasing the Creation Kit, they did 0% of the work. The only fault that could be laid at the feet of modders there was in choosing to participate in such an obviously imbalanced system. But far worse than the 75%/25% split was the NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement)There was a lot of general anger at modders for participating, but I think it was spilled over from legitimate problems Valve and Bethesda created. Here were the main problems:1. Lack of communication between modders and players. This was 100% caused by Bethesda's and Valve's requirement of a NDA, which prevented modders from sharing information. The modders know their communities of users, have trust relationships with them, and shouldn't be cut off from the communication that created those bonds.Fault: Valve and Bethesda.2. Lack of preparation, explanation and communication from Bethesda/Valve. This compounded the first problem. If they weren't going to let the modders handle public relations, they needed to step up and do it properly themselves. They didn't.Fault: Valve and Bethesda.3. Lack of curation, policy and policing. Lack of curation allowed buggy, ugly one or two item mods to debut alongside works of art like Purity. Lack of policy allowed modders to upload mods that included works they didn't have clear rights to (as with the fishing mod and FNIS, for example) because they were given bad advice, and were prevented by the NDA from contacting other modders to ask for permission, as it normally works in this open community. Lack of policing allowed people to upload mods they in fact had no hand in writing at all, and the process of catching and correcting such action was nearly non-existent.Fault: Valve.4. Modder misbehavior. This was rare, but given the already poisoned atmosphere around the launch, the backlash spilled over to modders who didn't, for instance, taint or withdraw free previous versions. The NDA and shoddy PR don't excuse putting game-interrupting, immersion-breaking pop-up ads in the older free version of a mod, for instance. That's just going to rub some people the wrong way.Fault: A very small subset of modders, for which all modders unfairly took flack by association far too often.Fault for that: 25% Valve, since the NDA was so corrosive to trust and communication, 75% us, for triathlon of pitching fits, casting aspersions and jumping to conclusions. Quote Xavathos wrote: @CaladanAnduril I knew optimism was rare but.. this is breaking new ground.Alright, I'm pulling back out of this entire "discussion". Even a simple hope has to be immediately crushed under the pessimistic foot of the vocal community. More and more am I realizing why so few actually bother to post anything here. Disgraceful. Quote KeltecRFB wrote: Woodrobin, I agree, I can not believe Bethesda claimed 45% and Valve claimed 30%, what the heck did Valve do other than have a place to post mods. Shoot the modder can post it here or create their own website like those modders that have been kicked from the Nexus or decided to leave. The most valve can claim without being idiots is 10%. As for Bethesda, no more than 15%. I don't care what industry standards dictate, let's be realistic and not be greedy. Yes, I do believe in capitalism but I don't believe in being Bernie Madoff {With Your Money}. Bethesda and Valve already made their money and now they are robbing the poor modder by double dipping. To do this correctly, place a donation button by the mod. Those who are impressed by the mod, the mod author's support, and can afford it, they will be happy to donate and I have seen it many times here on the Nexus of people wanting to donate money for their perception of a quality mod or because of great modder support. Those that can not afford donating or are just too cheap to donate, they can download the mod for free like it is now. Those who donate should have the most say and access to support. Those that don't, do not have as much pull and support. And if Bethesda is receiving a cut, then all assets from previous games should be available to make the mod and to those who donate instead of having to already owned the game. Although most that donate probably already own the game. The good thing about donating is perhaps the Mod Author will be more compelled to continue support of his/her mod and not burn out as fast or can do it to make extra money on the side or if they are unemployed. Although the donations will not support them, it would be nice to have something extra. About 20 years ago, I was in a similar situation and ran my own computer repair business. I had a few clients and I was able to make extra money to cover things. Nothing to live on but it made life more comfortable and I did this until I started installing DSL when DSL was first rolled out and I would be on a call with the NOC or Central Office for 4 hours to see if the ATM PVCs had been built or changed, or to see if the phone connection had been properly SLAMMED (connected to the DSLAM).EDIT: It appears there is already a Donate button here on the Nexus but I do agree with Dark One, it needs to be more noticeable because I didn't notice it until he said something about it. The Donate button does allow you to donate to the modder via Pay Pal or you can donate a Nexus Premium Nexus Supporter to them as well. Quote OiramX5 wrote: Ha! I knew it it was the quest for heaven mod have been removed from fallout 3 before I even look! I remember the author was complaining and crying all the time because his mod did not the success his hoped and he was disappointed because was a low number of downloads and blablabla, and funny the "few" people who has played really like and give congratulations to him (Me included)... really great thing of his part, maybe I should clap for him... sad even the 3 part where the half of things of the work was made by others modders was removed too... ah well, that author I really expected this act, and is more funny he almost never appeared before and now sprout of nothing just to remove... I go laugh a little to this fact rsThe sky isn't falling yet. The TES modding community has been around since Morrowind. There are peaks and valleys (and Skyrim is now 4 years old), but I don't see Skyrim mods going away anytime soon (at least until the next TES game comes out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesuvius1745 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 In response to post #24857264. #24857889 is also a reply to the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Spencerbilodeau wrote: Yup! Paid mods are gone! Free for play folks win! Woo hoo!!Now.. can we please stop with the 'Forever free' banners on every new mod upload? It is not like this is the Occupy Movement or people fighting for gay rights (both great causes in my opinion) It was a resistance to a new policy by a game maker and vendor. This is not echoing down the channels of history. If you like how it feels to successfully protest and resist something you do not like, go turn that energy towards a cause that REALLY matters. Quote Xavathos wrote: Haha, it's actually more likely that they decided to go back on the idea because of the DMCA claims than because people were "rising up" anyway. Wouldn't that be a bubble burster were Bethesda or Valve to announce it?I like the Forever Free banners. It galvanizes the community in a positive way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullpcp Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Human being show a plethora of cognitive or irrational biases that have a detrimental effect on our ability to make rational decisions. Consciousness of these biases allow people to make better decisions. I think this has direct implications as to how some people are viewing paid mods. Status quo bias Status quo bias is a cognitive bias; a preference for the current state of affairs. The current baseline (or status quo) is taken as a reference point, and any change from that baseline is perceived as a loss. Status quo bias should be distinguished from a rational preference for the status quo ante, as when the current state of affairs is objectively superior to the available alternatives, or when imperfect information is a significant problem. A large body of evidence, however, shows that status quo bias frequently affects human decision-making. Status quo bias interacts with other non-rational cognitive processes such as loss aversion, existence bias, endowment effect, longevity, mere exposure, and regret avoidance. Experimental evidence for the detection of status quo bias is seen through the use of the reversal test. A vast amount of experimental and field examples exist. Behavior in regard to retirement plans, health, and ethical choices show evidence of the status quo bias. Loss aversion In economics and decision theory, loss aversion refers to people's tendency to strongly prefer avoiding losses to acquiring gains. Most studies suggest that losses are twice as powerful, psychologically, as gains.[citation needed] Loss aversion was first demonstrated by Amos Tversky and Daniel Kahneman.[1] This leads to risk aversion when people evaluate an outcome comprising similar gains and losses; since people prefer avoiding losses to making gains. Loss aversion may also explain sunk cost effects. Loss aversion implies that one who loses $100 will lose more satisfaction than another person will gain satisfaction from a $100 windfall. In marketing, the use of trial periods and rebates tries to take advantage of the buyer's tendency to value the good more after he incorporates it in the status quo. Note that whether a transaction is framed as a loss or as a gain is very important to this calculation: would you rather get a $5 discount, or avoid a $5 surcharge? The same change in price framed differently has a significant effect on consumer behavior. Though traditional economists consider this "endowment effect" and all other effects of loss aversion to be completely irrational, that is why it is so important to the fields of marketing and behavioral finance. The effect of loss aversion in a marketing setting was demonstrated in a study of consumer reaction to price changes to insurance policies.[2] The study found price increases had twice the effect on customer switching, compared to price decreases. Endowment effect In behavioral economics, the endowment effect (also known as divestiture aversion) is the hypothesis that people ascribe more value to things merely because they own them.[1] This is illustrated by the observation that people will tend to pay more to retain something they own than to obtain something owned by someone else—even when there is no cause for attachment, or even if the item was only obtained minutes ago. All from the WIKI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullpcp Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 In response to post #24861374. Reveal hidden contents Quote Vesuvius1745 wrote: Entitlement: Mod authors are NOT entitled to sell their mods. Sorry, but you aren't. Mod authors have utilized every aspect of Bethesda's Intellectual Property from start to finish, and by clicking the "I agree" to their EULA you have entered into a contract, and it's up to Bethesda to decide what you are or are not allowed to do with that derivative creation. The customers who bought the original Skyrim DO have the right to express their displeasure to Bethesda about a pay-for mod system on Steam. Bethesda can choose to ignore that, but in this case, they listened to the people who pay their salaries. The users on the Nexus do NOT have a right to free mods. Mod authors do NOT have to create mods and give them to the community. If you are a user and you DO want free mods, then you might want to donate to mod authors, or at least be nice to them and endorse. If you are a mod author who wants to get paid: the horse is dead. Get a job at a game company.I agree with much of what you wrote but I'm unsure who you are arguing against. Nobody was suggesting mod authors had the rights to sell their mods against Bethesda's will. People were suggesting Bethesda allowing mod authors to sell their mods legally would be a good idea. Nobody was suggesting customers who bought the original Skyrim be censored in any way. Considering you and others already bought their game I don't see how you are paying their salaries unless your are writing about future releases. I doubt the "horse" is as dead as this community thinks it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupdragon1234 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 On 5/1/2015 at 5:39 PM, Vesuvius1745 said: Mod authors are NOT entitled to sell their mods. Currrently we're not allow allowed to monetize them, that at least is correct. We're all well aware of the EULA I'm sure and I'm sure we're all delighted to hear you repeat exactly the same sentiment for the hundredth or more times over in this thread. However reading between the lines of Steam's recent announcements (and I freely admit it is just that, I have no empirical evidence to back it up) paid mods will be introduced from the get go if and when later titles are released from Bethesda. Quote Get a job at a game company. Let me think about that for a minute, how about..... no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaladanAnduril Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 In response to post #24852949. #24853204, #24853924, #24853949, #24854139, #24856504, #24857199, #24857919, #24858264, #24862004 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: Look here, how the subject is discussed...http://www.moddb.com/news/the-uncertain-future-of-paid-modsA more rational and calm way of debating about modding and community.Mean time people... watch the numbers, Nexus is bleeding mods and authors EVERY day and the numbers of hidden mods are growing at a frightening rate.And don't tell me that that ALL those authors are money hunger... they are just disgusted about what happened this days and it still continue.Among other, Fallout 3 lost an extraordinary quest and adventure series...Endless walls of words, meaningless words, just watch the numbers and maybe you will begin to understand what is ALREADY happening.What a victory... Quote ramccoid wrote: @CaladanAnduril Well said. It's time to give it a rest, why keep trying to flog a dead horse. What's done is done, let's move on and see what can be salvaged from this whole sordid mess. Quote Xavathos wrote: Well said.It is indeed sad to see the damage that has been done in the last week, but it is not too late. :) Quote aegiltheugly wrote: I keep seeing that claim (mostly from the same people) but I haven't seen any data to back it up. How about some verifiable information rather than some generalized claims. Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: Xavathos who could know how late it is ?Tnx the storyteller01 I read an excellent article ( link in his post below).You should read it...Quote" It's common to see the community tear at itself over Valve’s policies, but the users persecuting the modders was new, and has created a rift that is still fresh and may remain here for a long time". Quote woodrobin wrote: There was anger at Valve and Bethesda for taking 75% of the money for mods were, other than releasing the Creation Kit, they did 0% of the work. The only fault that could be laid at the feet of modders there was in choosing to participate in such an obviously imbalanced system. But far worse than the 75%/25% split was the NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement)There was a lot of general anger at modders for participating, but I think it was spilled over from legitimate problems Valve and Bethesda created. Here were the main problems:1. Lack of communication between modders and players. This was 100% caused by Bethesda's and Valve's requirement of a NDA, which prevented modders from sharing information. The modders know their communities of users, have trust relationships with them, and shouldn't be cut off from the communication that created those bonds.Fault: Valve and Bethesda.2. Lack of preparation, explanation and communication from Bethesda/Valve. This compounded the first problem. If they weren't going to let the modders handle public relations, they needed to step up and do it properly themselves. They didn't.Fault: Valve and Bethesda.3. Lack of curation, policy and policing. Lack of curation allowed buggy, ugly one or two item mods to debut alongside works of art like Purity. Lack of policy allowed modders to upload mods that included works they didn't have clear rights to (as with the fishing mod and FNIS, for example) because they were given bad advice, and were prevented by the NDA from contacting other modders to ask for permission, as it normally works in this open community. Lack of policing allowed people to upload mods they in fact had no hand in writing at all, and the process of catching and correcting such action was nearly non-existent.Fault: Valve.4. Modder misbehavior. This was rare, but given the already poisoned atmosphere around the launch, the backlash spilled over to modders who didn't, for instance, taint or withdraw free previous versions. The NDA and shoddy PR don't excuse putting game-interrupting, immersion-breaking pop-up ads in the older free version of a mod, for instance. That's just going to rub some people the wrong way.Fault: A very small subset of modders, for which all modders unfairly took flack by association far too often.Fault for that: 25% Valve, since the NDA was so corrosive to trust and communication, 75% us, for triathlon of pitching fits, casting aspersions and jumping to conclusions. Quote Xavathos wrote: @CaladanAnduril I knew optimism was rare but.. this is breaking new ground.Alright, I'm pulling back out of this entire "discussion". Even a simple hope has to be immediately crushed under the pessimistic foot of the vocal community. More and more am I realizing why so few actually bother to post anything here. Disgraceful. Quote KeltecRFB wrote: Woodrobin, I agree, I can not believe Bethesda claimed 45% and Valve claimed 30%, what the heck did Valve do other than have a place to post mods. Shoot the modder can post it here or create their own website like those modders that have been kicked from the Nexus or decided to leave. The most valve can claim without being idiots is 10%. As for Bethesda, no more than 15%. I don't care what industry standards dictate, let's be realistic and not be greedy. Yes, I do believe in capitalism but I don't believe in being Bernie Madoff {With Your Money}. Bethesda and Valve already made their money and now they are robbing the poor modder by double dipping. To do this correctly, place a donation button by the mod. Those who are impressed by the mod, the mod author's support, and can afford it, they will be happy to donate and I have seen it many times here on the Nexus of people wanting to donate money for their perception of a quality mod or because of great modder support. Those that can not afford donating or are just too cheap to donate, they can download the mod for free like it is now. Those who donate should have the most say and access to support. Those that don't, do not have as much pull and support. And if Bethesda is receiving a cut, then all assets from previous games should be available to make the mod and to those who donate instead of having to already owned the game. Although most that donate probably already own the game. The good thing about donating is perhaps the Mod Author will be more compelled to continue support of his/her mod and not burn out as fast or can do it to make extra money on the side or if they are unemployed. Although the donations will not support them, it would be nice to have something extra. About 20 years ago, I was in a similar situation and ran my own computer repair business. I had a few clients and I was able to make extra money to cover things. Nothing to live on but it made life more comfortable and I did this until I started installing DSL when DSL was first rolled out and I would be on a call with the NOC or Central Office for 4 hours to see if the ATM PVCs had been built or changed, or to see if the phone connection had been properly SLAMMED (connected to the DSLAM).EDIT: It appears there is already a Donate button here on the Nexus but I do agree with Dark One, it needs to be more noticeable because I didn't notice it until he said something about it. The Donate button does allow you to donate to the modder via Pay Pal or you can donate a Nexus Premium Nexus Supporter to them as well. Quote OiramX5 wrote: Ha! I knew it it was the quest for heaven mod have been removed from fallout 3 before I even look! I remember the author was complaining and crying all the time because his mod did not the success his hoped and he was disappointed because was a low number of downloads and blablabla, and funny the "few" people who has played really like and give congratulations to him (Me included)... really great thing of his part, maybe I should clap for him... sad even the 3 part where the half of things of the work was made by others modders was removed too... ah well, that author I really expected this act, and is more funny he almost never appeared before and now sprout of nothing just to remove... I go laugh a little to this fact rs Quote Vesuvius1745 wrote: The sky isn't falling yet. The TES modding community has been around since Morrowind. There are peaks and valleys (and Skyrim is now 4 years old), but I don't see Skyrim mods going away anytime soon (at least until the next TES game comes out).@ Oiramx5Your comment only prove the level of discontempt and arrogance you have towards someone who provided a FREE mods for your entertainment.In fact there was TWO authors, in AQFH 1 was Firelady, in AQFH 2 was Firelady and AndromedaCrescent and in AQFH 3, since Firelady died in a car crash it was only AndromedaCrescent.A mod series for Fallout 3 who had more than 150.000 downloads is far from the "the low numbers of downloads"you gracefully mention.And they were not happy with the low endorsement ration ( something around 3% ! ).But of course, your discontempt and selfishness show up AFTER you played a FREE GIFT from them to YOU... disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OiramX5 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 In response to post #24852949. #24853204, #24853924, #24853949, #24854139, #24856504, #24857199, #24857919, #24858264, #24862004, #24880089 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: Look here, how the subject is discussed...http://www.moddb.com/news/the-uncertain-future-of-paid-modsA more rational and calm way of debating about modding and community.Mean time people... watch the numbers, Nexus is bleeding mods and authors EVERY day and the numbers of hidden mods are growing at a frightening rate.And don't tell me that that ALL those authors are money hunger... they are just disgusted about what happened this days and it still continue.Among other, Fallout 3 lost an extraordinary quest and adventure series...Endless walls of words, meaningless words, just watch the numbers and maybe you will begin to understand what is ALREADY happening.What a victory... Quote ramccoid wrote: @CaladanAnduril Well said. It's time to give it a rest, why keep trying to flog a dead horse. What's done is done, let's move on and see what can be salvaged from this whole sordid mess. Quote Xavathos wrote: Well said.It is indeed sad to see the damage that has been done in the last week, but it is not too late. :) Quote aegiltheugly wrote: I keep seeing that claim (mostly from the same people) but I haven't seen any data to back it up. How about some verifiable information rather than some generalized claims. Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: Xavathos who could know how late it is ?Tnx the storyteller01 I read an excellent article ( link in his post below).You should read it...Quote" It's common to see the community tear at itself over Valve’s policies, but the users persecuting the modders was new, and has created a rift that is still fresh and may remain here for a long time". Quote woodrobin wrote: There was anger at Valve and Bethesda for taking 75% of the money for mods were, other than releasing the Creation Kit, they did 0% of the work. The only fault that could be laid at the feet of modders there was in choosing to participate in such an obviously imbalanced system. But far worse than the 75%/25% split was the NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement)There was a lot of general anger at modders for participating, but I think it was spilled over from legitimate problems Valve and Bethesda created. Here were the main problems:1. Lack of communication between modders and players. This was 100% caused by Bethesda's and Valve's requirement of a NDA, which prevented modders from sharing information. The modders know their communities of users, have trust relationships with them, and shouldn't be cut off from the communication that created those bonds.Fault: Valve and Bethesda.2. Lack of preparation, explanation and communication from Bethesda/Valve. This compounded the first problem. If they weren't going to let the modders handle public relations, they needed to step up and do it properly themselves. They didn't.Fault: Valve and Bethesda.3. Lack of curation, policy and policing. Lack of curation allowed buggy, ugly one or two item mods to debut alongside works of art like Purity. Lack of policy allowed modders to upload mods that included works they didn't have clear rights to (as with the fishing mod and FNIS, for example) because they were given bad advice, and were prevented by the NDA from contacting other modders to ask for permission, as it normally works in this open community. Lack of policing allowed people to upload mods they in fact had no hand in writing at all, and the process of catching and correcting such action was nearly non-existent.Fault: Valve.4. Modder misbehavior. This was rare, but given the already poisoned atmosphere around the launch, the backlash spilled over to modders who didn't, for instance, taint or withdraw free previous versions. The NDA and shoddy PR don't excuse putting game-interrupting, immersion-breaking pop-up ads in the older free version of a mod, for instance. That's just going to rub some people the wrong way.Fault: A very small subset of modders, for which all modders unfairly took flack by association far too often.Fault for that: 25% Valve, since the NDA was so corrosive to trust and communication, 75% us, for triathlon of pitching fits, casting aspersions and jumping to conclusions. Quote Xavathos wrote: @CaladanAnduril I knew optimism was rare but.. this is breaking new ground.Alright, I'm pulling back out of this entire "discussion". Even a simple hope has to be immediately crushed under the pessimistic foot of the vocal community. More and more am I realizing why so few actually bother to post anything here. Disgraceful. Quote KeltecRFB wrote: Woodrobin, I agree, I can not believe Bethesda claimed 45% and Valve claimed 30%, what the heck did Valve do other than have a place to post mods. Shoot the modder can post it here or create their own website like those modders that have been kicked from the Nexus or decided to leave. The most valve can claim without being idiots is 10%. As for Bethesda, no more than 15%. I don't care what industry standards dictate, let's be realistic and not be greedy. Yes, I do believe in capitalism but I don't believe in being Bernie Madoff {With Your Money}. Bethesda and Valve already made their money and now they are robbing the poor modder by double dipping. To do this correctly, place a donation button by the mod. Those who are impressed by the mod, the mod author's support, and can afford it, they will be happy to donate and I have seen it many times here on the Nexus of people wanting to donate money for their perception of a quality mod or because of great modder support. Those that can not afford donating or are just too cheap to donate, they can download the mod for free like it is now. Those who donate should have the most say and access to support. Those that don't, do not have as much pull and support. And if Bethesda is receiving a cut, then all assets from previous games should be available to make the mod and to those who donate instead of having to already owned the game. Although most that donate probably already own the game. The good thing about donating is perhaps the Mod Author will be more compelled to continue support of his/her mod and not burn out as fast or can do it to make extra money on the side or if they are unemployed. Although the donations will not support them, it would be nice to have something extra. About 20 years ago, I was in a similar situation and ran my own computer repair business. I had a few clients and I was able to make extra money to cover things. Nothing to live on but it made life more comfortable and I did this until I started installing DSL when DSL was first rolled out and I would be on a call with the NOC or Central Office for 4 hours to see if the ATM PVCs had been built or changed, or to see if the phone connection had been properly SLAMMED (connected to the DSLAM).EDIT: It appears there is already a Donate button here on the Nexus but I do agree with Dark One, it needs to be more noticeable because I didn't notice it until he said something about it. The Donate button does allow you to donate to the modder via Pay Pal or you can donate a Nexus Premium Nexus Supporter to them as well. Quote OiramX5 wrote: Ha! I knew it it was the quest for heaven mod have been removed from fallout 3 before I even look! I remember the author was complaining and crying all the time because his mod did not the success his hoped and he was disappointed because was a low number of downloads and blablabla, and funny the "few" people who has played really like and give congratulations to him (Me included)... really great thing of his part, maybe I should clap for him... sad even the 3 part where the half of things of the work was made by others modders was removed too... ah well, that author I really expected this act, and is more funny he almost never appeared before and now sprout of nothing just to remove... I go laugh a little to this fact rs Quote Vesuvius1745 wrote: The sky isn't falling yet. The TES modding community has been around since Morrowind. There are peaks and valleys (and Skyrim is now 4 years old), but I don't see Skyrim mods going away anytime soon (at least until the next TES game comes out). Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: @ Oiramx5Your comment only prove the level of discontempt and arrogance you have towards someone who provided a FREE mods for your entertainment.In fact there was TWO authors, in AQFH 1 was Firelady, in AQFH 2 was Firelady and AndromedaCrescent and in AQFH 3, since Firelady died in a car crash it was only AndromedaCrescent.A mod series for Fallout 3 who had more than 150.000 downloads is far from the "the low numbers of downloads"you gracefully mention.And they were not happy with the low endorsement ration ( something around 3% ! ).But of course, your discontempt and selfishness show up AFTER you played a FREE GIFT from them to YOU... disgusting.CaladanAnduril I begin to be arrogant when the modders start to generalize everyone, when in fact exist people who support them in the beginning, I was one of them, I support the AQFH since the first statement and that how she repay hers supporters, fans, etc. Selfishness I? Really? After I was supporting her and she do that? hahaha Sorry, if you like to be spit in the face by them and smile, is up to you, I dont like to be treat like that and is that the point why I be arrogant with some people. Man, you read what I wrote?I say the own MODDER AUTHOR was saying that, she was complaining because the low numbers, she was expecting be the first mod of the month and so on. And you played her mod?It was difficult, hard and long, is not for everyone, maybe that the people dont endorse that time because dont like it, I dont know, but I like, endorsed and thanks her, and is this how she repay who actually like her mod.I dont remember if andromedacrescent help in the 2 part, but a pretty sure I dont see him before the part 3. You can say she died, but I dont heard about that so is just rumor to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
communistman243 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 A great solution to all of this is for anyone and everyone to take this to heart: "These are just games, I should really just relax." In the entire span of human history, since when has these debacles have ever truthfully registered more than nothing when it comes to long-term effects? We're just going on and on about something that's utterly pointless when it comes right down to it. So we can keep doing this; With all of this debating/arguing/complaining or whatever coming from pros/cons/neutrals. All of which has no impact outside of a computer screen. But in the end: Should we honestly care about any of this? Or do we just carry on with life as it is, and attempt a return to the days like before this - where everyone was just fine where they were and we could all carry on about our day without major dilemmas? I have a feeling I've just stomped on - with cleats - at least everybody's feet. I'll be waiting out the inevitable s***storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaladanAnduril Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 In response to post #24852949. #24853204, #24853924, #24853949, #24854139, #24856504, #24857199, #24857919, #24858264, #24862004, #24880089, #24894324 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: Look here, how the subject is discussed...http://www.moddb.com/news/the-uncertain-future-of-paid-modsA more rational and calm way of debating about modding and community.Mean time people... watch the numbers, Nexus is bleeding mods and authors EVERY day and the numbers of hidden mods are growing at a frightening rate.And don't tell me that that ALL those authors are money hunger... they are just disgusted about what happened this days and it still continue.Among other, Fallout 3 lost an extraordinary quest and adventure series...Endless walls of words, meaningless words, just watch the numbers and maybe you will begin to understand what is ALREADY happening.What a victory... Quote ramccoid wrote: @CaladanAnduril Well said. It's time to give it a rest, why keep trying to flog a dead horse. What's done is done, let's move on and see what can be salvaged from this whole sordid mess. Quote Xavathos wrote: Well said.It is indeed sad to see the damage that has been done in the last week, but it is not too late. :) Quote aegiltheugly wrote: I keep seeing that claim (mostly from the same people) but I haven't seen any data to back it up. How about some verifiable information rather than some generalized claims. Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: Xavathos who could know how late it is ?Tnx the storyteller01 I read an excellent article ( link in his post below).You should read it...Quote" It's common to see the community tear at itself over Valve’s policies, but the users persecuting the modders was new, and has created a rift that is still fresh and may remain here for a long time". Quote woodrobin wrote: There was anger at Valve and Bethesda for taking 75% of the money for mods were, other than releasing the Creation Kit, they did 0% of the work. The only fault that could be laid at the feet of modders there was in choosing to participate in such an obviously imbalanced system. But far worse than the 75%/25% split was the NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement)There was a lot of general anger at modders for participating, but I think it was spilled over from legitimate problems Valve and Bethesda created. Here were the main problems:1. Lack of communication between modders and players. This was 100% caused by Bethesda's and Valve's requirement of a NDA, which prevented modders from sharing information. The modders know their communities of users, have trust relationships with them, and shouldn't be cut off from the communication that created those bonds.Fault: Valve and Bethesda.2. Lack of preparation, explanation and communication from Bethesda/Valve. This compounded the first problem. If they weren't going to let the modders handle public relations, they needed to step up and do it properly themselves. They didn't.Fault: Valve and Bethesda.3. Lack of curation, policy and policing. Lack of curation allowed buggy, ugly one or two item mods to debut alongside works of art like Purity. Lack of policy allowed modders to upload mods that included works they didn't have clear rights to (as with the fishing mod and FNIS, for example) because they were given bad advice, and were prevented by the NDA from contacting other modders to ask for permission, as it normally works in this open community. Lack of policing allowed people to upload mods they in fact had no hand in writing at all, and the process of catching and correcting such action was nearly non-existent.Fault: Valve.4. Modder misbehavior. This was rare, but given the already poisoned atmosphere around the launch, the backlash spilled over to modders who didn't, for instance, taint or withdraw free previous versions. The NDA and shoddy PR don't excuse putting game-interrupting, immersion-breaking pop-up ads in the older free version of a mod, for instance. That's just going to rub some people the wrong way.Fault: A very small subset of modders, for which all modders unfairly took flack by association far too often.Fault for that: 25% Valve, since the NDA was so corrosive to trust and communication, 75% us, for triathlon of pitching fits, casting aspersions and jumping to conclusions. Quote Xavathos wrote: @CaladanAnduril I knew optimism was rare but.. this is breaking new ground.Alright, I'm pulling back out of this entire "discussion". Even a simple hope has to be immediately crushed under the pessimistic foot of the vocal community. More and more am I realizing why so few actually bother to post anything here. Disgraceful. Quote KeltecRFB wrote: Woodrobin, I agree, I can not believe Bethesda claimed 45% and Valve claimed 30%, what the heck did Valve do other than have a place to post mods. Shoot the modder can post it here or create their own website like those modders that have been kicked from the Nexus or decided to leave. The most valve can claim without being idiots is 10%. As for Bethesda, no more than 15%. I don't care what industry standards dictate, let's be realistic and not be greedy. Yes, I do believe in capitalism but I don't believe in being Bernie Madoff {With Your Money}. Bethesda and Valve already made their money and now they are robbing the poor modder by double dipping. To do this correctly, place a donation button by the mod. Those who are impressed by the mod, the mod author's support, and can afford it, they will be happy to donate and I have seen it many times here on the Nexus of people wanting to donate money for their perception of a quality mod or because of great modder support. Those that can not afford donating or are just too cheap to donate, they can download the mod for free like it is now. Those who donate should have the most say and access to support. Those that don't, do not have as much pull and support. And if Bethesda is receiving a cut, then all assets from previous games should be available to make the mod and to those who donate instead of having to already owned the game. Although most that donate probably already own the game. The good thing about donating is perhaps the Mod Author will be more compelled to continue support of his/her mod and not burn out as fast or can do it to make extra money on the side or if they are unemployed. Although the donations will not support them, it would be nice to have something extra. About 20 years ago, I was in a similar situation and ran my own computer repair business. I had a few clients and I was able to make extra money to cover things. Nothing to live on but it made life more comfortable and I did this until I started installing DSL when DSL was first rolled out and I would be on a call with the NOC or Central Office for 4 hours to see if the ATM PVCs had been built or changed, or to see if the phone connection had been properly SLAMMED (connected to the DSLAM).EDIT: It appears there is already a Donate button here on the Nexus but I do agree with Dark One, it needs to be more noticeable because I didn't notice it until he said something about it. The Donate button does allow you to donate to the modder via Pay Pal or you can donate a Nexus Premium Nexus Supporter to them as well. Quote OiramX5 wrote: Ha! I knew it it was the quest for heaven mod have been removed from fallout 3 before I even look! I remember the author was complaining and crying all the time because his mod did not the success his hoped and he was disappointed because was a low number of downloads and blablabla, and funny the "few" people who has played really like and give congratulations to him (Me included)... really great thing of his part, maybe I should clap for him... sad even the 3 part where the half of things of the work was made by others modders was removed too... ah well, that author I really expected this act, and is more funny he almost never appeared before and now sprout of nothing just to remove... I go laugh a little to this fact rs Quote Vesuvius1745 wrote: The sky isn't falling yet. The TES modding community has been around since Morrowind. There are peaks and valleys (and Skyrim is now 4 years old), but I don't see Skyrim mods going away anytime soon (at least until the next TES game comes out). Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: @ Oiramx5Your comment only prove the level of discontempt and arrogance you have towards someone who provided a FREE mods for your entertainment.In fact there was TWO authors, in AQFH 1 was Firelady, in AQFH 2 was Firelady and AndromedaCrescent and in AQFH 3, since Firelady died in a car crash it was only AndromedaCrescent.A mod series for Fallout 3 who had more than 150.000 downloads is far from the "the low numbers of downloads"you gracefully mention.And they were not happy with the low endorsement ration ( something around 3% ! ).But of course, your discontempt and selfishness show up AFTER you played a FREE GIFT from them to YOU... disgusting. Quote OiramX5 wrote: CaladanAnduril I begin to be arrogant when the modders start to generalize everyone, when in fact exist people who support them in the beginning, I was one of them, I support the AQFH since the first statement and that how she repay hers supporters, fans, etc. Selfishness I? Really? After I was supporting her and she do that? hahaha Sorry, if you like to be spit in the face by them and smile, is up to you, I dont like to be treat like that and is that the point why I be arrogant with some people. Man, you read what I wrote?I say the own MODDER AUTHOR was saying that, she was complaining because the low numbers, she was expecting be the first mod of the month and so on. And you played her mod?It was difficult, hard and long, is not for everyone, maybe that the people dont endorse that time because dont like it, I dont know, but I like, endorsed and thanks her, and is this how she repay who actually like her mod.I dont remember if andromedacrescent help in the 2 part, but a pretty sure I dont see him before the part 3. You can say she died, but I dont heard about that so is just rumor to me.I will spare you from the efforthttp://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1206169-in-memoriam-firelady/Maybe you will continue fighting the dead and those who continued her work, as a regular user, trashing everything AFTER you use it. I'm modding and helping modders for long time, it was always a matter of friendship beyond borders and language.But the Nexus community if one of the most dirty I ever encountered.Keep fighting the dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts