sunshinenbrick Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 In response to post #24761834. #24762054, #24762089, #24762294, #24762689, #24762759, #24762869, #24762924, #24763094 are all replies on the same post.greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick wrote: This is why it is also about our experience of art... and we should be careful we don't buy into buying "art" for art's sake.That is to say art is a very subjective thing to experience and why our relationship with it matters. I buy Bethesda games because they enrich my life, not just cuz they are sold as suchjoeriz9 wrote: Mod makers who want to be artists, Should make a living of it, and proof it by making a mod that's worth the while.The creator of falskaar purely made Falskaar to show what he was capable of, and got a real job out of it. greggorypeccary wrote: Mod makers already are artists. I never said all art is good.joeriz9 wrote: True, let me rephrase that. If you want to make a living of it. ramccoid wrote: I do work as a freelance artist and do earn a living at it. I also do mod and share the creations, the similarities are not that different, just basically a different medium to work with.greggorypeccary wrote: As am I sunshinenbrick wrote: There also is too much emphasis that people can only fall into two camps:ModderUserI think its a great deal more complex than that.greggorypeccary wrote: Honestly most modders are not really users. Once you start modding you almost never play.So true... I haven't even finished Skyrim yet! I've been casually modding since it came out.In fact I nearly went crazy many times, but damn am I looking forward to playing it one day. Just fingers crossed my save doesn't get messed up.Riften I'm looking at you!!!:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aegiltheugly Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I've been checking this thread since this morning. I keep seeing the same people on both sides making the same arguments in response to each other over and over. Since both sides are equally self-righteous and indignant about their positions what exactly is either side hoping to accomplish? A modder that wants to be paid for their work always has the option of establishing a competing website that caters to paid mods but if they publish to a site that specializes in free mods they shouldn't be upset if no-one wants to pay them. Conversely people that want free mods have no right to complain if there favorite modders decide to try and make a living at their craft by taking their work elsewhere. It's their work they can do what they want with it. I've checked several national constitutions and free mods are not something anybody has a right to. There are still plenty of free mods available at the Nexus and other websites and the market will determine the viability of the paid mods. I also don't understand the argument I've seen from some modders that even if they leave the community it's unfair that their work still exist on peoples hard drives. Well.. yes...The choice was made to freely give away your work. You don't get to take it back any more than I get to reclaim the artwork I created and gave to people in college. If I wanted that much control of my work I should have filed the necessary legal papers to maintain it. Steam and Bethesda should never have taken a heavily modded, four year old game and put paid and free mods together on the same site and pitted the two communities against each other. The animosity and vitriol was predictable to anyone that has spent time gaming or on the internet in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookit Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 In response to post #24763594. aegiltheugly wrote: Amen. +Kudos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toest Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I think Bethesda and Valve should apologize to Chesko. I feel like all of our modders deserve more respect. Chesko tried to pioneer a new avenue to help build better mods, by funding better modders, from a BRILLIANT modding community. We all knew this would be a bumpy road, but for us to bump into each other and not be polite enough to apologize for the toes that were stepped on is unacceptable. We almost lost the modder who made frostfall, belt fastened quivers, and plenty of other mods that were unique and amazing. Chesko isn't collateral damage to the modding community, like other modders he's what makes this community great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merc3n4ri0 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Mods Forever Free .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowldragon Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 In response to post #24763594. #24763769 is also a reply to the same post.aegiltheugly wrote: Mookit wrote: Amen. +KudosNot sure you're right or wrong here...Art is a separate issue... a Visual artist has protection under copywrite laws...you gave your art away...you didn't give away the fact that YOU created it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locomotive1236 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 In response to post #24763594. #24763769, #24763984 are all replies on the same post.aegiltheugly wrote: Mookit wrote: Amen. +KudosFowldragon wrote: Not sure you're right or wrong here...Art is a separate issue... a Visual artist has protection under copywrite laws...you gave your art away...you didn't give away the fact that YOU created it.Forums/open blogs exist for a reason. It's the idea of sharing your own opinions with others. People with different opinions will argue, simple as that. There's really no way to stop people from arguing on any particular thread other than to delete their posts. I've read a post where one person says that all arguments/flaming eventually lead to the Nazi and WW2 at some point. I've seen this happen too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggorypeccary Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 In response to post #24761834. #24762054, #24762089, #24762294, #24762689, #24762759, #24762869, #24762924, #24763094, #24763449 are all replies on the same post.greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick wrote: This is why it is also about our experience of art... and we should be careful we don't buy into buying "art" for art's sake.That is to say art is a very subjective thing to experience and why our relationship with it matters. I buy Bethesda games because they enrich my life, not just cuz they are sold as suchjoeriz9 wrote: Mod makers who want to be artists, Should make a living of it, and proof it by making a mod that's worth the while.The creator of falskaar purely made Falskaar to show what he was capable of, and got a real job out of it. greggorypeccary wrote: Mod makers already are artists. I never said all art is good.joeriz9 wrote: True, let me rephrase that. If you want to make a living of it. ramccoid wrote: I do work as a freelance artist and do earn a living at it. I also do mod and share the creations, the similarities are not that different, just basically a different medium to work with.greggorypeccary wrote: As am I sunshinenbrick wrote: There also is too much emphasis that people can only fall into two camps:ModderUserI think its a great deal more complex than that.greggorypeccary wrote: Honestly most modders are not really users. Once you start modding you almost never play.sunshinenbrick wrote: So true... I haven't even finished Skyrim yet! I've been casually modding since it came out.In fact I nearly went crazy many times, but damn am I looking forward to playing it one day. Just fingers crossed my save doesn't get messed up.Riften I'm looking at you!!!:DGet rid of endorsements. They really don't help, they are an illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phellen Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) In response to post #24757069. #24757229, #24757314, #24757684, #24758614, #24758724, #24758949, #24759229, #24759924 are all replies on the same post.phellen wrote: Laereal wrote: Thank you for posting this as I agree with everything you said.MacAban wrote: Excellent post. I too agree with all your points.MrGrymReaper wrote: @phellen - I also agree but not with paid mods as I can't really afford to always be donating or paying, for modifications as my personal situation won't allow it.Even if could afford to pay I wouldn't buy mods especially from companies which give a massive percentage to the themselves and an insignificant percentage in comparison the mod's creator. Though I would donate and depending on my current financial situation may do it regularly though likely it would be as a one off.I need to watch my finances as currently I'm out of work following an accident in the past.Though I have been around on the nexus for a long time most likely first join back during Fallout 3 and/or Oblivion based nexus generation. Later I added the Fallout New Vegas game followed by Skyrim. I have done some mods on Morrowind though not so many also was the victim during the tough growing times (when the site would crash regularly).I even became a Premium member back when the site's Lifetime Membership was around the cost of a new video game (£30.00-£40.00) circa 2006-2009.phellen wrote: I see what your saying, but at the same time those who use the argument. "I can't afford to buy (X), so (X) should never be sold for money" are simply wrong. Fill that (X) in with anything else besides the word "mod", and you'll see what I mean. As far as money is concerned as I said, when it comes to showing appreciation to modders on the nexus for their work there are many other ways to do this that don't involve donations per say. Commenting, endorsing, voting, sharing pictures, helping out by answering others questions, ect...MrGrymReaper wrote: @phellen - You try paying for something on a tight budget with a large combination of mods. Which get used together in order to find conflicts and test modifications.Testing modifications becomes much harder if you had to pay for a modification in order to use it (this not only the mod being tested but also the other used as part of the test).You may not know this but I help out across multiple communities giving comments and feedback. Suggestions where I can and are currently on a team of modders working on the new episode of Maids II: Deception.Hopefully they haven't been too badly affected (if at all) by what has happened in recent days.phellen wrote: True, I think those are both legitimate concerns, and would be something that modders would have to think about and address long before ever choosing to sell or not sell their mods (if it's ever allowed again). Compatibility would have to be really clear for sure. Keep in mind I'm not speaking to you personally, or pointing the finger in your direction in any way. I'm just addressing the majority of the people who were freaking out majorly at modders for wanting to take part in the "new" (now old) system. They had every right to do so, and still deserve users respect. Users have no right to make demands on what modders do with their own mods. pokenar wrote: Timing and Execution were my biggest problems, the former being something that valve explicitly admitted was a problem.MrGrymReaper wrote: @phellen - I tend to when testing modification go through the quests and see if they can be made to break (in a way which a player may do them).That's good, another thing to add to the list. I think that kind of feed back is really useful for modders. I would say what you are doing to help is pretty much a necessity, and in a way makes it sort of a team effort or community effort, that helps a lot of modders perfect their creations. Edited April 28, 2015 by phellen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnytecboy Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 In response to post #24761834. #24762054, #24762089, #24762294, #24762689, #24762759, #24762869, #24762924, #24763094, #24763449, #24764079 are all replies on the same post.greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick wrote: This is why it is also about our experience of art... and we should be careful we don't buy into buying "art" for art's sake.That is to say art is a very subjective thing to experience and why our relationship with it matters. I buy Bethesda games because they enrich my life, not just cuz they are sold as suchjoeriz9 wrote: Mod makers who want to be artists, Should make a living of it, and proof it by making a mod that's worth the while.The creator of falskaar purely made Falskaar to show what he was capable of, and got a real job out of it. greggorypeccary wrote: Mod makers already are artists. I never said all art is good.joeriz9 wrote: True, let me rephrase that. If you want to make a living of it. ramccoid wrote: I do work as a freelance artist and do earn a living at it. I also do mod and share the creations, the similarities are not that different, just basically a different medium to work with.greggorypeccary wrote: As am I sunshinenbrick wrote: There also is too much emphasis that people can only fall into two camps:ModderUserI think its a great deal more complex than that.greggorypeccary wrote: Honestly most modders are not really users. Once you start modding you almost never play.sunshinenbrick wrote: So true... I haven't even finished Skyrim yet! I've been casually modding since it came out.In fact I nearly went crazy many times, but damn am I looking forward to playing it one day. Just fingers crossed my save doesn't get messed up.Riften I'm looking at you!!!:Dgreggorypeccary wrote: Get rid of endorsements. They really don't help, they are an illusion.@sunshinenbrickI can relate to that.. I haven't even played "The Last of Us" yet :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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