greggorypeccary Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 In response to post #24798079. Reveal hidden contents Quote DaddyDirection wrote: They spend that money so they can make more. As for the rest of your post, if it is referring to mine at all I think you might want to read it a gain. You don't seem to understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macintroll Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 In response to post #24798079. #24798244 is also a reply to the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote DaddyDirection wrote: Quote greggorypeccary wrote: They spend that money so they can make more. As for the rest of your post, if it is referring to mine at all I think you might want to read it a gain. You don't seem to understand it.Well If you can spend 500,000 $ just on running costs… think, it's that the website is earning way more ! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retakrew7 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Donations are the way to go for modding. This experiment was helpful because now the industry knows for sure how modders respond to that kind of approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightasy Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) I'm going to end on this note which I worded to another well-known modder. I've always modded in the past for myself. I made mods I wanted for me and then shared them for free on the Nexus out of pure charity. Yes, I made the mods for selfish reasons but giving them away for free was just me being nice. I’ve even gone a step further with such charity on multiple occasions by catering those mods I gave away to fit the desires of the community. I don’t even use some of the body types I’ve converted my mods to work with but someone asked me to do it and I did. What do we get for being nice? Nothing because nothing was expected as it was entirely an act of charity. We asked for nothing and with the exception of a simple thank you here and there, we got nothing in return. Though for all that charity that we offered and all that free stuff we just gave away, it was not without consequence. We built up and unknowingly supported the mentality that mod developers don't deserve anything and that all mods should be free. This was of course not our intent but that's what we did by releasing our mods out of charity. We are partially to blame for creating this mentality. Since paid modding was taken away, I have taken the time to really consider the events that have transpired over this event. While I had not received any money from paid mods, eventually I would have because my work would have sold, of that I am certain. My free mods would have remained free and I had planned to also release a mod for free ever so often simply out of charity for those who could not afford my paid mods. Also because doing so would help keep the quality of my work well known. Such an act would have been like a trend and I can be fairly certain other authors that offered paid content would have taken to such a practice. I’ve come to the conclusion that the anti-paid mod community just took money out of my pocket. They stole an opportunity for me to make a profit through artwork. That is how I see it and that is exactly what they did. For all my charity, this was the thanks that we modders have received. We had an opportunity to earn money doing something that we love to do but because we were so charitable in the past… the opportunity was ripped from our grasp. Gee, thanks a lot guys and gals... real uncool. My free mods would have always remained free and I would have continued to throw a few more free mods out there from time to time. Now none of my mods are available, not even my free ones. Such charity caused me to lose an opportunity that would have been a ‘dream come true.’ Now it’s not the last you’ve seen of ol’ Nightasy. I’ll still make tutorials and teach people how to make mods. I’ll still continue to answer mod related questions but I won’t be one to give mine away. Not anymore, not after this. You can call it whatever you want but I call it being made aware. Anyone can have any opinion they want about me regarding my stance. I am officially done responding to hate. I am officially done giving away my mods. Until paid modding has returned I will no longer offer free mods. I encourage other mod authors to take the same stance. Until we show that we deserve our freedom to choose we won't be heard. They all had a choice not to buy our mods and we should have a choice to offer them for free or for sale regardless of our percentage of the cut. I will not roll over, I will defend my rights as an artist. Edited April 29, 2015 by Nightasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesuvius1745 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 In response to post #24780229. #24780409, #24780659, #24780854, #24780909, #24780924, #24780964, #24780984, #24781199, #24781259, #24781424, #24781519, #24781574, #24782444, #24784194 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Azulyn wrote: Quote bullpcp wrote: I don't think it was reasonable and I would personally not purchase them. I do however believe that the authors should have the right to charge whatever they chose and others could chose to ignore them like I did. Some mods, by my favorite authors, I found worth the cost and I was planning on either purchasing them on steam, or waiting for the mods to become available on the nexus and donating to the author directly, but I didn't get the chance... I may never get the chance now. Quote UberSmaug wrote: That may be a bit high. But a free market would eventually adjust itself. The User would set the price in the end. Look at the iPhone (idk which number), when weeks after release they dropped the price and extended refunds after accusations of extortion. People will test the limits of what you are willing to pay. Standards for the acceptable price for one sword or one set of armor would be set eventually. What if that same armor and sword was packaged with a new dungeon and quest. Adding actual gameplay value. Would that be worth a buck or two? You could still say no I don't think its worth it. Just like some say "I don't think dawnguard is worth it". So you don't buy it right away. Later on the price drops or there is a sale. Quote sunshinenbrick wrote: I completely agree that the market would level out, but Vavletheda would have been exploiting people until that happened. Which could have taken a long time. Only being able to refund one mod every seven days was f'ing nuts as well!My other major gripe? Paying hard working authors in bloody coupons, c'mon guys we cannot eat Wallet points! Quote UberSmaug wrote: Untrue payments were to be in real cash. Quote bullpcp wrote: As longs as no one was under any illusions about how much they where paying or what the mod contained no one would be exploited. Mod authors that chose to work for wallet points decided voluntarily that it was in there best interest to do so. Removing this option did not in fact benefit the mod authors but instead made them worse off. I wouldn't produce for wallet points but feel that others should have had the right to do so if they chose. Besides things could have changed over time. Quote bullpcp wrote: There seems to be a great deal of misinformation in these forums. Thank you for the heads up. Quote sunshinenbrick wrote: The complete lack of transparency and communication about all this did not help anyone I feel. Quote bullpcp wrote: While BethValve could have done a far better job of informing the "community" of what was going on, the "community" could have been bothered to read easily available information and ask pertinent questions instead of unnecessarily assuming the worst. Much of the pain and suffering caused by misinformation disseminated and propagated by the ignorant could have easily been avoided. Quote UberSmaug wrote: Misinformation and reactionary prejudice on the internet. No way! Quote sunshinenbrick wrote: Unfortunately there are those that do take things at surface value and do not question and challenge what is imposed upon us.Anyway it is late/early, and I'm knackered myself so I'll have to talk to peeps tomorrow perhaps?Cheers for all. SNB Quote Vesuvius1745 wrote: How many people would pay $1.99 for every mod they are using or have ever used? When you add it all up, it could get really expensive trying to get Vanilla Skyrim to be marginally playable. And if game companies know that modders will finish their game for them, and add features that should have been in on release, they will have little incentive to release completed games--especially if they will be making a percentage of all the sales on mods people released that fixed their game. And as far as the community goes, some mod authors will inevitably think, "Since so-and-so sells his mods, why should I release mine for free?" And the folks that gave us ENB and SKSE, why should they continue working for free just so others can piggy-back on their work for a profit? Or the authors of FORE, ASIS, WYRE BASH, and every other utility and resource that has been given to the community for free. Some people just don't get what an "open source" community is, and how easily it can be killed. Quote UberSmaug wrote: Dark0ne damn near spilled the beans with his Modding as hobby vs. career post. go on click the little globe at the top of your screen. That was like a month ago. I read it. I didn't think it would happen this soon but it was coming. Yes people form opinions with no basis, no research, and refuse to budge once they feel their mind is made up. People don't even read the modding agreement before they start posting stuff. That's not an iTunes update its an important bit of legal information. Quote Iranbez wrote: There's no exploitation in a voluntary action like this. People weren't being forced to buy mods. I'll never pay for mods but I understand that people have the freedom to do so. Quote bullpcp wrote: Don't like paid for mods, don't buy paid for mods. Don't like incomplete games that require an army of modders to finish don't buy incomplete games. The fact that this is an open source community out of current necessity says nothing about how beneficial or appropriate the current structure is or could be. No one suggested you be "forced" to purchase mods only that the creators should have the choice to get paid and that those willing to pay for said mods should be able to do so. If paid for mods took off mods that otherwise could not and would not exist could become possible as the best and the brightest modders could justify their creation. You justify your view by stating that free mods benefit you; that the current system is advantageous to you, and I can't argue against that. I would however argue that both modders, and the part of the community willing to pay for quality mods, might very well benefit from a different system. A system were talented modders would have the option, the choice, to ease their burden of creation or even attempt to make a living at what they love to do.Well, Bullpcp, the modding community has been doing just fine for over 15+ years without anyone ever getting paid a cent. It can even be argued that there have been a lot of mods released that are of much higher quality than the DLC garbage Bethesda has charged us for (Falskaar comes to mind). The claim that the introduction of profit will make things better just doesn't hold true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axeface Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) In response to post #24798859. #24799109, #24799114 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Nightasy wrote: Quote UberSmaug wrote: Sums up everything I've been saying for the past few days. Well said. Quote greggorypeccary wrote: I don't see how any thinking person could fault you.Well said Nightasy, and thankyou for your tutorials. Sad to see your mods go, but I agree with everything you said.Like someone else here said. Youtubers can make money from everyones mods. Twitch streamers can. The nexus can. Valve and Beth can, yet the 'community' actively refuses modders that chance, and it's only a chance, because only quality would actually sell.Self determination is important, and that has been refused.In hindsight they should have actively curated the system, just like they do in other games. And allowed a donate button, instead of the 'pay-what-you-want-but-PAY' system. Edited April 29, 2015 by Axeface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberSmaug Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 In response to post #24798859. #24798999 is also a reply to the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Nightasy wrote: Quote Axeface wrote: Well said Nightasy, and thankyou for your tutorials. Sad to see your mods go, but I agree with everything you said.Like someone else here said. Youtubers can make money from everyones mods. Twitch streamers can. The nexus can. Valve and Beth can, yet the 'community' actively refuses modders that chance, and it's only a chance, because only quality would actually sell.Self determination is important, and that has been refused.Sums up everything I've been saying for the past few days. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggorypeccary Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 In response to post #24798859. #24798999, #24799109 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Nightasy wrote: Quote Axeface wrote: Well said Nightasy, and thankyou for your tutorials. Sad to see your mods go, but I agree with everything you said.Like someone else here said. Youtubers can make money from everyones mods. Twitch streamers can. The nexus can. Valve and Beth can, yet the 'community' actively refuses modders that chance, and it's only a chance, because only quality would actually sell.Self determination is important, and that has been refused. Quote UberSmaug wrote: Sums up everything I've been saying for the past few days. Well said.I don't see how any thinking person could fault you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesuvius1745 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I am glad to see this experiment failed. The modding community has been doing just fine for over 15+ years without anyone ever getting paid a cent. It can even be argued that there have been a lot of mods released that are of much higher quality than the DLC garbage Bethesda has charged us for (Falskaar comes to mind). The claim that the introduction of profit will make things better just doesn't hold true. Besides that, how many people would pay $1.99 for every mod they are using or have ever used? When you add it all up, it could get really expensive trying to get Vanilla Skyrim to be marginally playable. And if game companies know that modders will finish their game for them, and add features that should have been in on release, they will have little incentive to release completed games--especially if they will be making a percentage of all the sales on mods people released that fixed their game. And as far as the community goes, some mod authors will inevitably think, "Since so-and-so sells his mods, why should I release mine for free?" And the folks who gave us ENB, SKSE, FORE, Wyre Bash, and many other great utilities and resources for free--why should they continue working for free just so others can piggy-back on their work for a profit? Some people just don't get what an "open source" community is, and how easily it can be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberSmaug Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 In response to post #24798804. Reveal hidden contents Quote retakrew7 wrote: "There are certainly other ways of supporting modder, through donations and other options. We are in favor of all of them. One doesn't replace another, and we want the choice to be the community's. Yet. in just one day, a popular mod developer made more on the Skyrim paid workshop than he made in all the years he asked for donations."-Bethesda Game StudiosDonations don't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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