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Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop


Dark0ne

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In response to post #24816339. #24817409, #24817554 are all replies on the same post.


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I have read many of these threads. I still have yet to see that claim. The only people I see making it are the anti-paid side speaking in such a way they're putting words in the mouths of the paid mod authors themselves. (I've seen a lot of that as well.) Perhaps I've missed the few cases this is true, however, I have seen many, many paid mod authors pointing out the hatred and vitriol directed at them by the people they thought were part of a supportive modding community. I've seen many, many free mod consumers and free mod authors attacking the paid side with words like "you're a disease, entitled brats, we don't need you." No, what we don't need is that behavior. I don't care if you've modded or not, an attack is an attack no matter where it comes from.

And perhaps it's true that some of the paid mod authors can't continue modding because they aren't paid. Perhaps being paid gave them the financial freedom to mod again where they could no longer find the time before. It's not an automatically nefarious claim.

Now, I totally get the concern with taking assets that aren't yours and using them in your own mod. That happened a couple times and it shouldn't have, but that's such a small minority. I also get the whole piggybacking off of free work to make paid work concern. That said, that's true of anything. Using Java to make a paid game, using Open Office to write a book, using Blender to make paid clothing mods for the Sims. (That last one is one of the reasons I don't want a paid mod system for Elder Scrolls.) It's really up to the user agreements of the free resources and those using them for paid work to discuss themselves. Perhaps some of those resource providers would be fine with it, at least if paid modders had asked and worked out their terms.

But regardless of where the hate started, it shouldn't have started at all, and it shouldn't have continued. I'm not for paid modding, but if I had to choose, I'd be perfectly fine paying kind and fair modders over not having to pay jerk modders. (Neither of these scenarios exist in a vacuum, but you get the idea.) Nobody is really being selfish, but there are a lot of illogical accusations flying around. I've just seen more on the anti-pay side than the pro-pay side so far.
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In response to post #24774814. #24776789, #24777459, #24811584, #24811694, #24811904, #24811959, #24813484, #24818104 are all replies on the same post.


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I would never pay for mods. Games and dlc's are expensive enough , let us not talk about cut to pieces micro dlc's for just a weapon or outfit. Why should i pay for mods that fix bugs that had to be solved by the game creator in the first place .
Most mods are made for themselfs they like to share, for the fun, for learning experience, realy,i wont pay for that.
Mods making my game intresting, sure , mods make the gameplay very intresting and makes me play longer with my games just like Skyrim . That game is 4 years now, other games even older. New games don't stay new. Why should i pay for mods that keep my old game intresting. If i need to pay 200 dollars for mods to keep a 4 year old game fun to play or even keep using mods that i already used and sudden need to pay for, well simple as that, i would buy a new game and put the rest into my pc and nothing into a old game and the mods.

As modder, for me it is the fun i got with the community, the learning experiences i get , i can show my thoughts,feelings ideas . I share my mods as others share them. To see my mods used in stories,comics or screens or companion mods means more to me then money. Edited by Xazomn
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In response to post #24774814. #24776789, #24777459, #24811584, #24811694, #24811904, #24811959, #24813484, #24818104, #24818664 are all replies on the same post.


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You'll never know what you have until you don't have it anymore.

It's mainly to make a point about how, when an opportunity to make money vanished, people will complain, crash, and burn about how unfair it was that it was taken away... even if they were totally fine with pay-less modding, just to put on their resumé.

The same thing with the people who USE the mods... they have free mods from absurdly kind people in the community, but they don't even donate. What [else] happens (aside from the concern of crappy, low-quality content that might not even work) when that gets taken away? An uprising, and people LEARN what they had, as it's been taken away.

Personally, I'm too warm-hearted plenty of the time, so I end up feeling so bad when some good modder, such as FavoredSoul, gets up and leaves because no-one was appreciating them for their hard work. (AGAIN, Steam. Donate button, custom message from author. That'd fix so much.)

Yet, people don't seem to get that it was their fault for not actually giving credit to good modders for their work. Instead, when the modder even THINKS of taking advantage of the new system, they get bashed and beaten for wanting to feel accomplished for their work, thanks to worthless stacks of green paper.

May sound trite: but give damn credit where it's deserved. I mean, come on, SKSE and SkyUI both are very well-done. The SkyUI is eye-pleasing, fancy, and it's not terribly clunky either. SKSE... it allows you to create mods, basically.

Also, alter account was lost. Don't mind the post history. Edited by MetalGearModder1155
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In response to post #24808104. #24814359, #24816149, #24817744 are all replies on the same post.


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1A) It's debatable whether or not consumers would consider the 'new versions' as a separate product and therefore free from being considered 'removed' or at least, if we want to be more accurate: the product (and transaction) on offer was modified, resulting in contempt from the original users. Your logic is fine, but doesn't take into account the very complex relationship between users and makers and the crux of the issue is that no matter how rudely consumers act, the amount of abuse they can hurl, the only ones in that relationship who stand to feel worse off/cheated/ripped off/whatever is the consumer, because their enjoyment of said product/service is co-dependant on its offering.

In the gallery example, the feelings users had about these newly sold versions is akin to the artist making 'Mona Lisa' for the free gallery and then making 'New and improved Mona Lisa' for paid. Separate product or not, the free users feel short-changed because it feels like the value of the free product has been downplayed by the new product.

This is really similar to the experience of buying say, a new computer and next month and newer better computer is available for the same price. But actually it's worse than that feeling because the original buy in is 'free' and no matter how much people try to avoid it; free is always a completely different kind of transaction/relationship than paid no matter if it's like 1 cent.

In this case the issue was exacerbated by free mods that we were aware were getting updates and patiently waiting on, only to discover that our expectations had to be moved completely outside of what we could have predicted.

1B) Maybe. But that doesn't exclude their products or their decisions from criticism. Which is a real big part of the debacle here and elsewhere: While nobody would say they condone abuse/threats et. al. and the old line 'don't like it don't buy it' is thrown around, at the end of the day everybody is allowed to be concerned. A lot of the debate here focuses on the tired old concept of supposed 'entitlement' but what nobody will acknowledge is that it doesn't exist and that everybody who has paid/not paid and everybody is upset/not upset is what it is, and speculating on what people deserve/don't deserve and how much people might've/might've not made is meaningless.

2) see 1B) From a consumer point of view they have X to spend, and ascribe value to X at their own will, not by others. As selfish as it sounds, most don't care and won't care about the makers. The end product and its value as a transaction is the end of the bargain for an end-user. I'll make my personal bias known that I have never been in favour of modern gaming marketplaces such as free-to-play, MMOs with subs, microtransactions, or piecemeal DLC that may or may not be on the disc. I'm only interested in buying the full game if available and leave it at that.

In the Skyrim's case, paying X value for the game is the initial transaction I (and other consumers possibly) are willing to accept. Users become comfortable with free modding as an extension of that value with no additional contemplation about value. Never forget that it's a laborious task to consider the value of something and then commit to purchase; free doesn't have this problem. I would prefer that I spend my time enjoying my game once purchased over continuing to shop. Changing this dynamic forces consumers to change their consideration of value and jump through mental (and financial) hoops to find the same experience.

People blame the mod-authors because they are the primary point of contact with this system. And if you'd pardon my analogy, we often attack/treat the symptoms of a disease when we should be focusing on the underlying cause. People were mad at this system being introduced and changing their experience/community, and modders showing some kind of tacit approval of this system made them an 'enemy' in some peoples eyes - an enemy only exists when an ideology you dislike has someone fighting for it. Also fear: I didn't like this change and seeing modders use it, and the debacle that follwed confirmed by fears.

Modders deserved less confrontation than Bethesda/Valve did, and I noticed that the upset was aimed at EVERYBODY; but alas, the modders, as simple individuals could weather it less.

People will feel forced when they are faced with more complication, and the impression that they afford less choice. As many have already said: people would likely have felt compelled to buy by some mod dependency, or compelled to not-buy through a lack of quality assurance. If I was to make absolutes, I'd say nobody was forced to do anything (true), but everybody was forced to participate with this new system (also true).

I'll agree with your last paragraph mostly, only caveat to say that speculating on what should have been done, or said in the past is kinda pointless. That and that I completely disagree that the level of underhanded quick-buck makers would have been a minority, only because every other relevant field has history to say otherwise. Mods being mostly free was a natural deterrent to shysters because they'd expect little to no return on investment.
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In response to post #24808104. #24814359, #24816149, #24817744, #24819819 are all replies on the same post.


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im all for modders getting the money they deserve, but how many mods are worth paying for, a handful definetly, the majority not really.
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In response to post #24748294. #24748909, #24748959, #24749014, #24749054, #24749074, #24749089, #24749114, #24749169, #24749269, #24749289, #24749409, #24749439, #24749529, #24749564, #24749574, #24749674, #24749709, #24749814, #24749884, #24749889, #24749954, #24750114, #24750204, #24750249, #24750254, #24750279, #24750544, #24750564, #24750709, #24750814, #24750904, #24751449, #24751489, #24751899, #24751974, #24752079, #24752334, #24752454, #24753799, #24754219, #24754259, #24754609, #24754739, #24754979, #24755419, #24755704, #24755774, #24755999, #24756039, #24756394, #24756489, #24756599, #24756669, #24756944, #24757404, #24757709, #24757794, #24757819, #24757959, #24758109, #24758244, #24758549, #24758604, #24758779, #24758789, #24759069, #24760799, #24760824, #24765454, #24765899, #24766564, #24766884, #24767039, #24767164, #24769074, #24769604, #24770129, #24770469, #24770524, #24770899, #24771494, #24771584, #24771729, #24771929, #24772554, #24773334, #24811954, #24812669, #24812944, #24813194, #24813974 are all replies on the same post.


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Sometime i miss the endorsment button because of 15 mnt delay from nexus before you can endorse a mod(and another 15mnt if you clicked earlier). This tend to make people forgot to endorse the mod author.
But i do think many ungrateful person is exist on the nexus, bad mouthing authors on their mod page because their mod is not lore friendly or the mod are simply doesn't follow their taste. And worst, using endorsement as threat againts the mod author.
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In response to post #24748294. #24748909, #24748959, #24749014, #24749054, #24749074, #24749089, #24749114, #24749169, #24749269, #24749289, #24749409, #24749439, #24749529, #24749564, #24749574, #24749674, #24749709, #24749814, #24749884, #24749889, #24749954, #24750114, #24750204, #24750249, #24750254, #24750279, #24750544, #24750564, #24750709, #24750814, #24750904, #24751449, #24751489, #24751899, #24751974, #24752079, #24752334, #24752454, #24753799, #24754219, #24754259, #24754609, #24754739, #24754979, #24755419, #24755704, #24755774, #24755999, #24756039, #24756394, #24756489, #24756599, #24756669, #24756944, #24757404, #24757709, #24757794, #24757819, #24757959, #24758109, #24758244, #24758549, #24758604, #24758779, #24758789, #24759069, #24760799, #24760824, #24765454, #24765899, #24766564, #24766884, #24767039, #24767164, #24769074, #24769604, #24770129, #24770469, #24770524, #24770899, #24771494, #24771584, #24771729, #24771929, #24772554, #24773334, #24811954, #24812669, #24812944, #24813194, #24813974, #24820479 are all replies on the same post.


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Admittedly... I tend to forget to leave likes and endorsements on almost any site I use frequently. Sorry...!
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Its quite late in the realm of modding to randomly toss up a pay wall without really paying attention to the entire community of modding. Especially after the previous TES games, where Bethesda threatened to sue several individuals...

 

Such as the creator of Unholy Darkness, who was only selling "part" of his mod. (voice package).

 

Now after all these threats of lawsuits, they turn around and say "Hey you can now sell mods!".

 

I realize the incentive was capital, but the way they went about it was probably one of the biggest "dropping the ball" I've seen in quite some time.

 

Probably the most hilarious part about all of this, is the fact that "free mods" is one of the largest selling points of Bethesda's games. Taking "free" anything away from any person used to having something for nothing...will cause them to flip out regardless lol.

 

Being a modder myself, I don't create mods for money. I typically create them for myself, and if I think other people would perhaps like them; I share them. Even if I sold one of my mods for 99 cents; it would probably take all the fun out of mod making.

 

Cause at that point, I mine as well make it a part time job. Making mods is not like making 3d products for rendering like Daz and poser. It has a long history behind it, and I'd expect Bethesda being one of the most well known creators of such games to be fully aware of it.

 

Like everyone has said before; this battle is over. But prepare to see this come in a different package; perhaps at the release of their next game. I wouldn't even be surprised if another company took the same idea and ran with it.

 

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In response to post #24774814. #24776789, #24777459, #24811584, #24811694, #24811904, #24811959, #24813484, #24818104, #24818664, #24818959 are all replies on the same post.


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Bethesda and Valve just killed the Goose that lays the Golden Egg. Modding has kept Skyrim and Oblivion, even Morowind, Fallout 3 and New Vegas, alive longer than they would have been otherwise. This means more sales of the games and DLC's. In that respect Bethesda has made money on modding.

I can understand Bethesda's motivations. It was Greed, they wanted to pocket some extra cash, from mod authors, plain and simple.

Funny thing about killing the Goose that Lays the Golden Egg. There is never any profit in it. Bethesda and Valve will never be able to undo what they have done. They have torn the modding community apart and set them against each other. Not only that, the rift will not have healed when Bethesda rolls out Fallout 4.

This has cost those fools money. The Goose is dead...
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I don`t understand how bethesda can say they hate DRM, yet they force everyone to use Steam to play their games. Sure, they let Oblivion go un-Steamed, but after that everything was Steamed, which is DRM. Why , if they so don`t like DRM, didn`t they make a non-Steam and Steam versions? would`ve loved that.

They`re not making sense and I don`t trust it.

Edited by Socratatus
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