WightMage Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 In response to post #24852949. #24853204, #24853924, #24853949, #24854139, #24856504, #24857199, #24857919, #24858264, #24862004, #24880089, #24894324, #24896929 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: Look here, how the subject is discussed...http://www.moddb.com/news/the-uncertain-future-of-paid-modsA more rational and calm way of debating about modding and community.Mean time people... watch the numbers, Nexus is bleeding mods and authors EVERY day and the numbers of hidden mods are growing at a frightening rate.And don't tell me that that ALL those authors are money hunger... they are just disgusted about what happened this days and it still continue.Among other, Fallout 3 lost an extraordinary quest and adventure series...Endless walls of words, meaningless words, just watch the numbers and maybe you will begin to understand what is ALREADY happening.What a victory... Quote ramccoid wrote: @CaladanAnduril Well said. It's time to give it a rest, why keep trying to flog a dead horse. What's done is done, let's move on and see what can be salvaged from this whole sordid mess. Quote Xavathos wrote: Well said.It is indeed sad to see the damage that has been done in the last week, but it is not too late. :) Quote aegiltheugly wrote: I keep seeing that claim (mostly from the same people) but I haven't seen any data to back it up. How about some verifiable information rather than some generalized claims. Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: Xavathos who could know how late it is ?Tnx the storyteller01 I read an excellent article ( link in his post below).You should read it...Quote" It's common to see the community tear at itself over Valve’s policies, but the users persecuting the modders was new, and has created a rift that is still fresh and may remain here for a long time". Quote woodrobin wrote: There was anger at Valve and Bethesda for taking 75% of the money for mods were, other than releasing the Creation Kit, they did 0% of the work. The only fault that could be laid at the feet of modders there was in choosing to participate in such an obviously imbalanced system. But far worse than the 75%/25% split was the NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement)There was a lot of general anger at modders for participating, but I think it was spilled over from legitimate problems Valve and Bethesda created. Here were the main problems:1. Lack of communication between modders and players. This was 100% caused by Bethesda's and Valve's requirement of a NDA, which prevented modders from sharing information. The modders know their communities of users, have trust relationships with them, and shouldn't be cut off from the communication that created those bonds.Fault: Valve and Bethesda.2. Lack of preparation, explanation and communication from Bethesda/Valve. This compounded the first problem. If they weren't going to let the modders handle public relations, they needed to step up and do it properly themselves. They didn't.Fault: Valve and Bethesda.3. Lack of curation, policy and policing. Lack of curation allowed buggy, ugly one or two item mods to debut alongside works of art like Purity. Lack of policy allowed modders to upload mods that included works they didn't have clear rights to (as with the fishing mod and FNIS, for example) because they were given bad advice, and were prevented by the NDA from contacting other modders to ask for permission, as it normally works in this open community. Lack of policing allowed people to upload mods they in fact had no hand in writing at all, and the process of catching and correcting such action was nearly non-existent.Fault: Valve.4. Modder misbehavior. This was rare, but given the already poisoned atmosphere around the launch, the backlash spilled over to modders who didn't, for instance, taint or withdraw free previous versions. The NDA and shoddy PR don't excuse putting game-interrupting, immersion-breaking pop-up ads in the older free version of a mod, for instance. That's just going to rub some people the wrong way.Fault: A very small subset of modders, for which all modders unfairly took flack by association far too often.Fault for that: 25% Valve, since the NDA was so corrosive to trust and communication, 75% us, for triathlon of pitching fits, casting aspersions and jumping to conclusions. Quote Xavathos wrote: @CaladanAnduril I knew optimism was rare but.. this is breaking new ground.Alright, I'm pulling back out of this entire "discussion". Even a simple hope has to be immediately crushed under the pessimistic foot of the vocal community. More and more am I realizing why so few actually bother to post anything here. Disgraceful. Quote KeltecRFB wrote: Woodrobin, I agree, I can not believe Bethesda claimed 45% and Valve claimed 30%, what the heck did Valve do other than have a place to post mods. Shoot the modder can post it here or create their own website like those modders that have been kicked from the Nexus or decided to leave. The most valve can claim without being idiots is 10%. As for Bethesda, no more than 15%. I don't care what industry standards dictate, let's be realistic and not be greedy. Yes, I do believe in capitalism but I don't believe in being Bernie Madoff {With Your Money}. Bethesda and Valve already made their money and now they are robbing the poor modder by double dipping. To do this correctly, place a donation button by the mod. Those who are impressed by the mod, the mod author's support, and can afford it, they will be happy to donate and I have seen it many times here on the Nexus of people wanting to donate money for their perception of a quality mod or because of great modder support. Those that can not afford donating or are just too cheap to donate, they can download the mod for free like it is now. Those who donate should have the most say and access to support. Those that don't, do not have as much pull and support. And if Bethesda is receiving a cut, then all assets from previous games should be available to make the mod and to those who donate instead of having to already owned the game. Although most that donate probably already own the game. The good thing about donating is perhaps the Mod Author will be more compelled to continue support of his/her mod and not burn out as fast or can do it to make extra money on the side or if they are unemployed. Although the donations will not support them, it would be nice to have something extra. About 20 years ago, I was in a similar situation and ran my own computer repair business. I had a few clients and I was able to make extra money to cover things. Nothing to live on but it made life more comfortable and I did this until I started installing DSL when DSL was first rolled out and I would be on a call with the NOC or Central Office for 4 hours to see if the ATM PVCs had been built or changed, or to see if the phone connection had been properly SLAMMED (connected to the DSLAM).EDIT: It appears there is already a Donate button here on the Nexus but I do agree with Dark One, it needs to be more noticeable because I didn't notice it until he said something about it. The Donate button does allow you to donate to the modder via Pay Pal or you can donate a Nexus Premium Nexus Supporter to them as well. Quote OiramX5 wrote: Ha! I knew it it was the quest for heaven mod have been removed from fallout 3 before I even look! I remember the author was complaining and crying all the time because his mod did not the success his hoped and he was disappointed because was a low number of downloads and blablabla, and funny the "few" people who has played really like and give congratulations to him (Me included)... really great thing of his part, maybe I should clap for him... sad even the 3 part where the half of things of the work was made by others modders was removed too... ah well, that author I really expected this act, and is more funny he almost never appeared before and now sprout of nothing just to remove... I go laugh a little to this fact rs Quote Vesuvius1745 wrote: The sky isn't falling yet. The TES modding community has been around since Morrowind. There are peaks and valleys (and Skyrim is now 4 years old), but I don't see Skyrim mods going away anytime soon (at least until the next TES game comes out). Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: @ Oiramx5Your comment only prove the level of discontempt and arrogance you have towards someone who provided a FREE mods for your entertainment.In fact there was TWO authors, in AQFH 1 was Firelady, in AQFH 2 was Firelady and AndromedaCrescent and in AQFH 3, since Firelady died in a car crash it was only AndromedaCrescent.A mod series for Fallout 3 who had more than 150.000 downloads is far from the "the low numbers of downloads"you gracefully mention.And they were not happy with the low endorsement ration ( something around 3% ! ).But of course, your discontempt and selfishness show up AFTER you played a FREE GIFT from them to YOU... disgusting. Quote OiramX5 wrote: CaladanAnduril I begin to be arrogant when the modders start to generalize everyone, when in fact exist people who support them in the beginning, I was one of them, I support the AQFH since the first statement and that how she repay hers supporters, fans, etc. Selfishness I? Really? After I was supporting her and she do that? hahaha Sorry, if you like to be spit in the face by them and smile, is up to you, I dont like to be treat like that and is that the point why I be arrogant with some people. Man, you read what I wrote?I say the own MODDER AUTHOR was saying that, she was complaining because the low numbers, she was expecting be the first mod of the month and so on. And you played her mod?It was difficult, hard and long, is not for everyone, maybe that the people dont endorse that time because dont like it, I dont know, but I like, endorsed and thanks her, and is this how she repay who actually like her mod.I dont remember if andromedacrescent help in the 2 part, but a pretty sure I dont see him before the part 3. You can say she died, but I dont heard about that so is just rumor to me. Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: I will spare you from the efforthttp://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1206169-in-memoriam-firelady/Maybe you will continue fighting the dead and those who continued her work, as a regular user, trashing everything AFTER you use it. I'm modding and helping modders for long time, it was always a matter of friendship beyond borders and language.But the Nexus community if one of the most dirty I ever encountered.Keep fighting the dead... I remember this quest mod, probably one of my most favorite back when I used to play FO3. I'm sad to see the original author is no longer with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXSharkyMcgee Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I notice the fact that I am not affected by this anyway, and I wonder to myself:Surely the people know that steam will never own every mod ever created? My own concerns are toward the explosively hateful negativity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OiramX5 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) In response to post #24852949. #24853204, #24853924, #24853949, #24854139, #24856504, #24857199, #24857919, #24858264, #24862004, #24880089, #24894324, #24896929, #24897304 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: Look here, how the subject is discussed...http://www.moddb.com/news/the-uncertain-future-of-paid-modsA more rational and calm way of debating about modding and community.Mean time people... watch the numbers, Nexus is bleeding mods and authors EVERY day and the numbers of hidden mods are growing at a frightening rate.And don't tell me that that ALL those authors are money hunger... they are just disgusted about what happened this days and it still continue.Among other, Fallout 3 lost an extraordinary quest and adventure series...Endless walls of words, meaningless words, just watch the numbers and maybe you will begin to understand what is ALREADY happening.What a victory... Quote ramccoid wrote: @CaladanAnduril Well said. It's time to give it a rest, why keep trying to flog a dead horse. What's done is done, let's move on and see what can be salvaged from this whole sordid mess. Quote Xavathos wrote: Well said.It is indeed sad to see the damage that has been done in the last week, but it is not too late. :) Quote aegiltheugly wrote: I keep seeing that claim (mostly from the same people) but I haven't seen any data to back it up. How about some verifiable information rather than some generalized claims. Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: Xavathos who could know how late it is ?Tnx the storyteller01 I read an excellent article ( link in his post below).You should read it...Quote" It's common to see the community tear at itself over Valve’s policies, but the users persecuting the modders was new, and has created a rift that is still fresh and may remain here for a long time". Quote woodrobin wrote: There was anger at Valve and Bethesda for taking 75% of the money for mods were, other than releasing the Creation Kit, they did 0% of the work. The only fault that could be laid at the feet of modders there was in choosing to participate in such an obviously imbalanced system. But far worse than the 75%/25% split was the NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement)There was a lot of general anger at modders for participating, but I think it was spilled over from legitimate problems Valve and Bethesda created. Here were the main problems:1. Lack of communication between modders and players. This was 100% caused by Bethesda's and Valve's requirement of a NDA, which prevented modders from sharing information. The modders know their communities of users, have trust relationships with them, and shouldn't be cut off from the communication that created those bonds.Fault: Valve and Bethesda.2. Lack of preparation, explanation and communication from Bethesda/Valve. This compounded the first problem. If they weren't going to let the modders handle public relations, they needed to step up and do it properly themselves. They didn't.Fault: Valve and Bethesda.3. Lack of curation, policy and policing. Lack of curation allowed buggy, ugly one or two item mods to debut alongside works of art like Purity. Lack of policy allowed modders to upload mods that included works they didn't have clear rights to (as with the fishing mod and FNIS, for example) because they were given bad advice, and were prevented by the NDA from contacting other modders to ask for permission, as it normally works in this open community. Lack of policing allowed people to upload mods they in fact had no hand in writing at all, and the process of catching and correcting such action was nearly non-existent.Fault: Valve.4. Modder misbehavior. This was rare, but given the already poisoned atmosphere around the launch, the backlash spilled over to modders who didn't, for instance, taint or withdraw free previous versions. The NDA and shoddy PR don't excuse putting game-interrupting, immersion-breaking pop-up ads in the older free version of a mod, for instance. That's just going to rub some people the wrong way.Fault: A very small subset of modders, for which all modders unfairly took flack by association far too often.Fault for that: 25% Valve, since the NDA was so corrosive to trust and communication, 75% us, for triathlon of pitching fits, casting aspersions and jumping to conclusions. Quote Xavathos wrote: @CaladanAnduril I knew optimism was rare but.. this is breaking new ground.Alright, I'm pulling back out of this entire "discussion". Even a simple hope has to be immediately crushed under the pessimistic foot of the vocal community. More and more am I realizing why so few actually bother to post anything here. Disgraceful. Quote KeltecRFB wrote: Woodrobin, I agree, I can not believe Bethesda claimed 45% and Valve claimed 30%, what the heck did Valve do other than have a place to post mods. Shoot the modder can post it here or create their own website like those modders that have been kicked from the Nexus or decided to leave. The most valve can claim without being idiots is 10%. As for Bethesda, no more than 15%. I don't care what industry standards dictate, let's be realistic and not be greedy. Yes, I do believe in capitalism but I don't believe in being Bernie Madoff {With Your Money}. Bethesda and Valve already made their money and now they are robbing the poor modder by double dipping. To do this correctly, place a donation button by the mod. Those who are impressed by the mod, the mod author's support, and can afford it, they will be happy to donate and I have seen it many times here on the Nexus of people wanting to donate money for their perception of a quality mod or because of great modder support. Those that can not afford donating or are just too cheap to donate, they can download the mod for free like it is now. Those who donate should have the most say and access to support. Those that don't, do not have as much pull and support. And if Bethesda is receiving a cut, then all assets from previous games should be available to make the mod and to those who donate instead of having to already owned the game. Although most that donate probably already own the game. The good thing about donating is perhaps the Mod Author will be more compelled to continue support of his/her mod and not burn out as fast or can do it to make extra money on the side or if they are unemployed. Although the donations will not support them, it would be nice to have something extra. About 20 years ago, I was in a similar situation and ran my own computer repair business. I had a few clients and I was able to make extra money to cover things. Nothing to live on but it made life more comfortable and I did this until I started installing DSL when DSL was first rolled out and I would be on a call with the NOC or Central Office for 4 hours to see if the ATM PVCs had been built or changed, or to see if the phone connection had been properly SLAMMED (connected to the DSLAM).EDIT: It appears there is already a Donate button here on the Nexus but I do agree with Dark One, it needs to be more noticeable because I didn't notice it until he said something about it. The Donate button does allow you to donate to the modder via Pay Pal or you can donate a Nexus Premium Nexus Supporter to them as well. Quote OiramX5 wrote: Ha! I knew it it was the quest for heaven mod have been removed from fallout 3 before I even look! I remember the author was complaining and crying all the time because his mod did not the success his hoped and he was disappointed because was a low number of downloads and blablabla, and funny the "few" people who has played really like and give congratulations to him (Me included)... really great thing of his part, maybe I should clap for him... sad even the 3 part where the half of things of the work was made by others modders was removed too... ah well, that author I really expected this act, and is more funny he almost never appeared before and now sprout of nothing just to remove... I go laugh a little to this fact rs Quote Vesuvius1745 wrote: The sky isn't falling yet. The TES modding community has been around since Morrowind. There are peaks and valleys (and Skyrim is now 4 years old), but I don't see Skyrim mods going away anytime soon (at least until the next TES game comes out). Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: @ Oiramx5Your comment only prove the level of discontempt and arrogance you have towards someone who provided a FREE mods for your entertainment.In fact there was TWO authors, in AQFH 1 was Firelady, in AQFH 2 was Firelady and AndromedaCrescent and in AQFH 3, since Firelady died in a car crash it was only AndromedaCrescent.A mod series for Fallout 3 who had more than 150.000 downloads is far from the "the low numbers of downloads"you gracefully mention.And they were not happy with the low endorsement ration ( something around 3% ! ).But of course, your discontempt and selfishness show up AFTER you played a FREE GIFT from them to YOU... disgusting. Quote OiramX5 wrote: CaladanAnduril I begin to be arrogant when the modders start to generalize everyone, when in fact exist people who support them in the beginning, I was one of them, I support the AQFH since the first statement and that how she repay hers supporters, fans, etc. Selfishness I? Really? After I was supporting her and she do that? hahaha Sorry, if you like to be spit in the face by them and smile, is up to you, I dont like to be treat like that and is that the point why I be arrogant with some people. Man, you read what I wrote?I say the own MODDER AUTHOR was saying that, she was complaining because the low numbers, she was expecting be the first mod of the month and so on. And you played her mod?It was difficult, hard and long, is not for everyone, maybe that the people dont endorse that time because dont like it, I dont know, but I like, endorsed and thanks her, and is this how she repay who actually like her mod.I dont remember if andromedacrescent help in the 2 part, but a pretty sure I dont see him before the part 3. You can say she died, but I dont heard about that so is just rumor to me. Quote CaladanAnduril wrote: I will spare you from the efforthttp://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1206169-in-memoriam-firelady/Maybe you will continue fighting the dead and those who continued her work, as a regular user, trashing everything AFTER you use it. I'm modding and helping modders for long time, it was always a matter of friendship beyond borders and language.But the Nexus community if one of the most dirty I ever encountered.Keep fighting the dead... Quote WightMage wrote: I remember this quest mod, probably one of my most favorite back when I used to play FO3. I'm sad to see the original author is no longer with us.CaladanAnduril Thanks for the link, I no have heard about until now, sad about that. SO who remove her mod? Andromeda? A GHOST?If was he(High probability, he is even banned from here), a "nice" act of his part, remove her amazing work from nexus.If was she... impossible, because that quest was on the nexus last year.Someone put it out from nexus, and was not her ghost, so is that person I am talking.If was because the paid mod system, so I am against, if was for another reason, so I can relieve about it and say I am sorry about what I said early. Got it?And come on, the way you said it was like she have removed the mod because this paid mod problem, like others modders.You dont have name it the mod, sure, but her was one the most famous on FO3 and the timing was perfectly.And I will say again, I am not trashing her\his work or anyone else, I really like and endorsed the good mods, I just dont accept this ridiculous act toward the people who was in the same side of they. And this is for any modder who have done that.If nexus is one of the most dirty, so which was most clean?Just curiosity, I would like your clean opinion. Edited May 3, 2015 by OiramX5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disavowed17 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I believe as you mentioned Before Dark0ne that the idea was good but the execution bye valve and bethesda was bad look at the tail end of this video made by MxR as a mod reviewer he has a feel for the modding community and I believe him when he said that we may have shot ourselves in the foot by dismissing paid mods outright it may have been implemented poorly but the Idea was excellent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoSxorpio Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 OMG..its over. New topic. Dragging this on and on does nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerfectByNature Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) *Wrong thread Edited May 3, 2015 by PerfectByNature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankonen Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I would be happy to pay 5% to any gaming company for mods. It's mostly their creative content anyway! We are just modding it. The engine that drives the game is so much work to make and I am thankful of Bethesda for creating the wonderful world of TES. However, they were presenting it like they were throwing a party for someone and praising their names. Whilst this is partly true, they were also running off with half of your cake. Whilst valve was bringing it in with a big piece missing. I'm sad to see it go completely. It would have been bloody awesome if they just implemented it in such a way that it wouldn't have stepped on so many toes. We have to remember that we are editing their creative content and that we are just adding to a huge universe with a lot of story here. The fact that they were paying modders was a huge step in fusing the gaming community and the modding community together into one group. The execution just came off greedy and incomplete. I'm saddened by how this went. I'm saddened by how a huge chunk of the community reacted. I would be glad to see it come back with a well executed and open form instead of this shabby half baked version of something wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony97 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Chesko is leaving. T_T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhand Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Absolutely beautiful piece of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afternoontea Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I wouldn't have bought Oblivion, Fallout3 nor Skyrim if there were no SDK and mods. They didn't have to yes, but I do believe they knew it will help them on the long run and that is why they did. Of cource I love them for it and will buy stuff that I might not even play if I hear they are in trouble, but just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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