Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

[hshowal]

Not sure what the big deal was...when I saw a mod for an armor that had a price of $2, I said to myself, "No."

 

When I saw the "Forever Free" thingy banner, I said, "Hey, that's cool, good for them."

 

IF, knowing what I know about it now, I saw Caliente's Bodyslide tool for a price of say $4, I would have said, "...worth it!"

[hshowal]

In response to post #24997194.

hshowal wrote: Not sure what the big deal was...when I saw a mod for an armor that had a price of $2, I said to myself, "No."

When I saw the "Forever Free" thingy banner, I said, "Hey, that's cool, good for them."

IF, knowing what I know about it now, I saw Caliente's Bodyslide tool for a price of say $4, I would have said, "...worth it!"

You nailed it right on the head, hshowal. I also suspect you're very good looking.

[Hobbit2130]

In response to post #24980184.

tony97 wrote: Chesko is leaving. T_T

He made some damn good mods, and is quite talented.

Can't say I'm not sorry to see him go, but monetization is a very bad idea.

Donations are quite good, I'm considering making some in light of this news article, not sure if I will, because frankly I'm a cheap bastard, but I am seriously considering donating for some truly superior mods that changed/breathed new life into games that I loved.

That said, I hate the idea of monetization. It's borne for one reason, rich bastards at the top seeing new blood to bled out of an old product.

[MotoSxorpio]

Someone lock this thread? Draw a line...?

 

Conversation should go to here for replies>http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?showtopic=2819494

 

Or no?

Edited May 6, 2015 by MotoSxorpio

[CaliforniaBear]

In response to post #24990149.

Afternoontea wrote: I wouldn't have bought Oblivion, Fallout3 nor Skyrim if there were no SDK and mods. They didn't have to yes, but I do believe they knew it will help them on the long run and that is why they did. Of cource I love them for it and will buy stuff that I might not even play if I hear they are in trouble, but just for the record.

The availability of mods for a game extend the shelf-life of a game and mods contributed to the fact that Skyrim was still $59.99 for two years after release. I myself, bought Skyrim for $59.99 a year after it was released after seeing YouTube videos of all the mods that made the game look fantastic and all of the changes that corrected deficiencies in play (from my perspective) and added new functionality that improved on the base game.

Also consider that the SDK allowed for unofficial patches that squashed all sorts of bugs in the game. That also extends shelf-life by allowing the community to correct issues that might have killed the desire of others to buy a "buggy game". (Assassin's Creed anyone?) The cherry on top is that Bethesda didn't have to foot the bill for developers to fix these bugs.

I see SDKs as a big win for companies with the gumption to release them.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

In response to post #24990149.

 

 

 

Afternoontea wrote: I wouldn't have bought Oblivion, Fallout3 nor Skyrim if there were no SDK and mods. They didn't have to yes, but I do believe they knew it will help them on the long run and that is why they did. Of cource I love them for it and will buy stuff that I might not even play if I hear they are in trouble, but just for the record.

The availability of mods for a game extend the shelf-life of a game and mods contributed to the fact that Skyrim was still $59.99 for two years after release. I myself, bought Skyrim for $59.99 a year after it was released after seeing YouTube videos of all the mods that made the game look fantastic and all of the changes that corrected deficiencies in play (from my perspective) and added new functionality that improved on the base game.

 

Also consider that the SDK allowed for unofficial patches that squashed all sorts of bugs in the game. That also extends shelf-life by allowing the community to correct issues that might have killed the desire of others to buy a "buggy game". (Assassin's Creed anyone?) The cherry on top is that Bethesda didn't have to foot the bill for developers to fix these bugs.

 

I see SDKs as a big win for companies with the gumption to release them.

 

 

Very wise comment.

[Tyerial12]

In response to post #24838714. #24841759, #24842129, #24844344, #24844739, #24845434, #24845714, #24847419, #24848004, #24848174, #24848329, #24849004, #24850284, #24851314, #24852044, #24857614, #24857744 are all replies on the same post.

Harbringe wrote:

Just so everyone knows when I said this to xbi

 

Sorry xbi on this one you dont know how the world works . Those million dollar lawyers these two companies have did think about this , thats why they had the modders contractually obligated to be the ones to be providing support for the mods and not themselves . That way if something goes wrong there would be only the modder that a plaintiff could go after . Your right they did think about this and they covered their own asses but not the modders . Thats how the world works. Just thought the reasoning in her rationale had brought her to the wrong conclusion.

 

I wasn't talking about any 5$ Horse armor type argument , just that when lawyers are brought in to absolve their clients of any responsibility and leave it solely on the other party , thats when the other party should be going spidey sense up , danger danger . And in a system where one of those parties can do updates that can affect your product (mod) and you have no control over that . Its because of those lawyers that your left in a very bad situation . And thats how the world works.

 

Even though I was against this idea (many reasons I haven't even mentioned) I have also thought people who were for it have some good points , including xbi . but to be honest I think there is something much bigger going on here , much bigger , but I haven't just put it all together yet .

retnav98 wrote: Many of us smell that same rat..

But I have to give it to Foster, who is still here discussing and explaining her position...while conceding some side issues, her main point as I understand it is simply that WE don't have the right to tell her or FavoredSoul or the SKYUI team or any MODDER that they can't make money from their mods.

Getting sued, fair market compensation..that's still NOT our call.

Opinions over Greed, good faith...that's just people trying to cling to a system that had NO options for modders.

And if you're a modder who would never consider charging, then that's your values and your position...It doesn't make it wrong to believe differently.

It's Their decision.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I agree but feel I must add that Bethesda must also give all of US the option to mod for free, or for money. And the option to buy UGC or not, without detracting from the original sales pitch and intent of the game. If it says beans in a can, I do not want rotten fish in a bag.

If you can avoid interest and debt then you are bang equal and that is the key to the free world. Sorry if that is too fleeting or opinionated, but I'm back from the pub :P

retnav98 wrote: Oh my...I long for the days when my Heart and Physique could endure a night of Black and Tans..That unsatiated yearning is caused not by the good beer but the pack and a half of Marlboros each day for 35 years... When you get older interest on debt doesn't keep your hands shaking as much as prescription costs...then again..that's probably less an issue on your side of the pond.

It would be nice, but I honestly don't believe that Valve or Bethesda will ever say they are in support of modders, or providing a polished and reasonably priced game for their faithful users....THEN, actually showing that they are sincere.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Ha! Good point, maybe I do speak from a perspective of advantage. But just remember when the s#*! really hits the fan we will ALL be be in the middle of that pond... drowning.

Nihilistic perhaps, but it allows me to get SOME sleep at night :D

Someone nudged me this, I take no credit:

Vesuvius1745 wrote: I think members of the community DO have a right to express their displeasure to mod authors who want to sell their mods. There area many reasons for that (such as all the shared/borrowed/piggy-backed resources they are using, or are relying upon as a backbone in many people's games for their own mods to work), but one good one is this:

"If so-and-so sells their mods on Steam, why should I release MY mods for free?"

It's called the Tragedy of the Commons phenomenon, and it is what killed the Sims modding community when they went to a pay-for system. People who don't want to see the same thing happen with Skyrim are expressing their displeasure, and yes, as paying customers of the original game, they DO have a right to tell Bethesda they don't want a paid-for mod paradigm on Steam. I know mod authors feel they are entitled to do whatever they want with derivative material, but that just isn't the case. When they create their own utilities from the ground up (like ENB, SKSE, FORE etc.), then yes, they can try and sell it all day long and twice on Sundays.

sunshinenbrick wrote: We must remember that we are all responsible for our childrens' futures. Why has the world become the way it has?

retnav98 wrote: Vesuvius,

I didn't say we don't have a right to tell her we are not happy with what that decision means to us, or to attempt to discourage her...I think we have to listen to each other...and I think Foster has done that and then some... In fact, Foster has done far more Listening than the people who proclaimed a " VICTORY for US."

Consider that those who lobby'd against Pay Mods (myself included) didn't spend a whole lot of time before we took our stand; granted, we didn't have a lot of time. Then before people like Foster and Favored' and Nightasy ...etc...etc...etc could clear their throats to reply...VALVE cancelled the whole episode.

You and others may be convinced you're in the right and were all along...I no longer am...

I used Nexus for a couple years without ever engaging the community...I primarily downloaded from Modders Resources, and after seeing all the best modders leaving STEAM, I eventually ONLY downloaded content through NEXUS. Because so much of what I was taking from the community was given to support new Modders, I rarely failed to endorse them..but still, I never paid a donation...

I have a Great appreciation for modders and the effort to make mods...and all the more for the effort involved in dealing with users...But because I never really engaged authors directly, I never guessed that money would be so divisive...Other communities may have proven that when Money was introduced, the community disolved, but that could only have been true if there was also a segment that would rather see the community die than to allow it. And others who would rather quit modding than give of themselves to people who would not listen to them.

Xavathos wrote: @ retnav98

It's all about entitlement. Mod users think they are entitled to free mods, and modders think they are entitled to compensation for their work.

Both are wrong, unfortunately. Users, especially those that don't even bother endorsing the mods they so frequently download, should be ashamed to think they are entitled to any of it. But modders who think they deserve as much as game developers working for a studio are also living in a dream world.

I firmly believe in the donation system. I believe it is the most fair for both sides involved. If only that would legalized completely somehow, instead of the rather risky legal gray area it's in right now.

Lastly I want to say modders absolutely deserve far more than they are getting and have been getting from users for the last few years (myself included). And when I say that I don't mean forking out great whopping loads of dosh in the general direction of modders, no, when I say that I am talking about gratitude, about endorsements (the very least you can do), about constructive criticism, about tips, ideas, suggestions, or least of all a simple thank you.

I hate pointing fingers, and find it counter productive, but if you feel, like me, that you belong in this group of people, then consider changing your attitude. It would be for the best of all of us in the long run.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: I keep seeing the claim, "people feel entitled to free mods!" and it used as some sort of rallying cry. No, that's not what this is about. About two minutes after the first pay-for mod was on Steam, it was on various Torrent sites. The people who DO feel entitled to free mods aren't here complaining. Why? Because they don't care. It's nothing to them if there is a pay-for system or not because they know they will get those mods regardless--and it's probably easier for them if they are on Torrent sites because there is no DL speed limit.

The fact is many mod authors didn't want this system. Surely you don't think THEY feel entitled to free mods? Think about the reasoning people have been giving, and please stop parroting this "people just want free mods!" nonsense.

Xavathos wrote: @ Vesuvius1745

I'm not sure if your post was in reply to mine, but if it was, you should read my entire post again, as you clearly don't understand what I said. Please don't reply to something you haven't taken the time to read first...

If it wasn't in reply to my post, my apologies for the misunderstanding.

retnav98 wrote: xavathos,

don't know if you've listened to this interview . its nearly 2 hrs long. Sunshinebrick "Nudged" me with it..before she poured herself to bed.

it was very informative for me. bottom line I think that You're right, both sides are at fault.

I believe though, that a person's attitude and a person's rights are not synonymous. You may believe you're entitled to something and be completely deluding yourself. You may also give an attitude of entitlement because YOU ARE entitled..Foster WAS entitled to submit her mods for pay.

But at the moment that Valve established the policy, as Cynical Brit interview exposes, that submission process never really got started...One could say that the Boycott Worked...but as was also revealed...Valve knew there would be a Loud, contentious and immediate response. So the question is, what triggered the cessation if on the same day it was pulled Bethesda stated (as Gaben had the day before) that the Model would continue.?

Could it be that this whole thing was a subterfuge? concocted solely to create disharmony within the community...was it triggered so suddenly because just days before , Dark0ne had blogged that Nexus would Forever be a Free modding site? Could Gaben have been attempting to regain the allegiance of Veteran/Elite Modders ?

It is possible too that this really was an absolute failure in judgement by a guy who turned STEAM into what Dark0ne called the Walmart of gaming. It is possible that this was a test run for future game releases... It is clear though that the usually keen-witted and "Scholarly" GABEN decision making, was Epicly WRONG on Pay Mods for Skyrim. and if he'd simply asked others who had as much or more understanding of the community, he may at least have taken a more gradual approach.

Your last paragraph has me a bit puzzled, I have a difficult time reading between the lines, but it seemed as if you were saying that my attitude should include donating money more frequently endorsing more and being generally more supportive of modders. I frankly find the admonition to change my attitude to fit in with the community not simply fingerpointing, but elitist and bordering on illegal. ...I will modulate my "Attitude"according to My values...not as a result of some late-night impudent half-threat.

Xavathos wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you. :) I had not seen TB had put up a new interview yet, I wrote my post before I checked my daily youtube routine. But I have now fully listened through everything TB, Robin and Nick had to say about the situation.

About my last paragraph though, I believe you misunderstand my intention. I'm the kind of person that does not like conflict an awful lot, and while I know conflict is inevitable and necessary sometimes, I do believe that things often get out of hand..? Basically, if my words could calm 3 people down a little in their passionate debates and perhaps open a few eyes to more than just their own perspective, that would be for the good of us all.

I meant it kind of in the way Robin made his closing argument in where he has to walk in the shoes of ALL parties involved. If only more of us could do that and try to understand one another, rather than blatantly pointing fingers and saying "he's the bad guy", it would help us get anywhere that is not this endless maelstrom of negativity. I'm not being elitist in saying you should CHANGE your opinion, I'm asking you to consider others perspective, views and values. (by you, I mean anyone reading it, not you specifically retnav98, just to clarify :))

retnav98 wrote: AMAZING....I don't expect you to read all my posts, but if you did you would read a man who has adjusted his thinking, and as a result of taking in the viewpoints of others is taking a hard look at himself... Maybe just like your post to Vesuvius, you're really confused about what you're saying and who you're saying it to...I really don't care to know what your motives or failed logics are..

I was too old to be playing kids games 40 years ago. Its time I left.

Xavathos wrote: @ retnav98

Excuse me, but I am guilty of nothing more than speaking my mind, whether that conforms with your thoughts and logic or not, does not give you right to repeatedly and childishly insult me. Someone of your self-proclaimed age should know better.

sunshinenbrick wrote: "Now now, let's not bicker and argue about who killed who."

- The Holy Grail -

Xavathos wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

Haha, great movie that one. :D

i agree but once SKyUi charges for there mod there will be far less mods for those who cant throwmoney out for mods (those that require SKYUI so the free community would soon die out and leave us with nothing but a paywall and less customers..

[Brandensa14]

As far as the whole payment for mod thing goes, I kind of agreed with it. Modders work hard and put a lot of time and effort into what they create. I think they deserve to get paid for all the effort they do put into it. However, what steam did was infuriating. I would have been fine with paying for the mods, but that's if the money would have went to the modders, or at least most of it. Steam taking 75% was ridiculous and I thought it showed their greed. But they obviously care about the community more otherwise they wouldn't have rescinded it. So as far as I'm concerned, I forgive Steam for their greedy ways.

[Tyerial12]

In response to post #25075374.

Brandensa14 wrote: As far as the whole payment for mod thing goes, I kind of agreed with it. Modders work hard and put a lot of time and effort into what they create. I think they deserve to get paid for all the effort they do put into it. However, what steam did was infuriating. I would have been fine with paying for the mods, but that's if the money would have went to the modders, or at least most of it. Steam taking 75% was ridiculous and I thought it showed their greed. But they obviously care about the community more otherwise they wouldn't have rescinded it. So as far as I'm concerned, I forgive Steam for their greedy ways.

i agreed with it aswell untill i found out Skyui and major major mods were going pay to have..

Heres Why:

GOOD BYE free mods that require Skyui (for those who can no afford to throw money on may work mods.

crap mods will be on the workshop for way too much money and there is no real way to know that they will work and you only had 24hrs to get the refund..

Last but not least hello free mods that SPAM you to buy the full verisons so all the free community would of been left with is a handfull of non skyui good mods and crappy spam mods.

Mod authors deserve to get paid yes but not in this way as its going to hurt communitys like this one and just bring more priracy.

[misleading]

I'd rather play something made by an enthusiast who enjoys what they do over some shill trying to make some shekels any day.

 

Mod authors don't deserve to get paid at all. It's a privilege when developers release mod or map tools. And it's nice when developers and publishers set it up so modders can get rewarded for the content they contribute.

 

But it's not like anyone's stopping you from putting your mod on your own site and charging for it or e-begging for donations (get a job). If you're so set on making money, why not make some indie game? I mean, Unreal Engine is free. You could even put crafting, zombies, and building in it and make it early access on Steam because there aren't enough of those.

 

Be glad you can even mod these games. I remember when Call of Duty was synonymous with a great modding community with new content and mods every week. But now it's some lousy "AAA" rushed and over-priced title with the rest of the game sold in DLC installments of 15 bucks a pop.

 

Also, Steam taking 75% isn't that bad. They're providing hosting for your content and providing the media for you to profit from your content. You want to put your mods on your own site and sell them? You have to buy a domain and hosting, develop that website with a members area and at least link paypal into it.