Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

[arcanicdeath]

In response to post #25453374.

OrangeblossomGaming wrote:

 

In response to post #24731944.

badconductor wrote: Aww. Sorry your vacation got canceled for what was effectively nothing. :/

Been modding a lot of years and no matter how broke I was or how unhappy I am at my crap job, I would never have considered selling mods. The modding community was always a brotherhood, a family that came together to share creations for free because it was something they loved doing. I can understand wanting something for putting time into creating something. At the same time though wanting that I believe makes you lose track of why you started doing it in the first place.

 

 

Would you say that very same thing to a doctor who is passionate about their work? Do you think just because they're paid that not all of them have a desire to make people feel better? That they're only in it for the money? What about the person who became a nurse because as a child they had a family member who was sick & wanted to make things right? Now that they're getting paid for healing would you call them selfish?

 

This can be applied to many other hobbies where people are paid for doing what they love. Other examples are car modding, fish-keeping (esp Salties/SW), house improvement/reselling, etc.

 

Money moves the world. Imagine your favourite modders out there not having to get a job they loathe, but instead put 100% of their 9-5 (and more) into making the very mods you love. They get paid, can buy healthy(ier) meals, maybe a gym membership (or new sneakers) to offset all that sitting time, maybe even upgrades to their computer/microphone/etc so that they can bring in better quality mods in the future.

 

A lot of folks seem to think modders making money are going to buy yachts & drop quality of their mods. Some will, and more reputable ones will take their place. Some want to get paid for their passion. Others like giving away their time & money. That's fine. But that's their personal choice.

 

I want to add, I don't think Valve/Bethesda did this right. They should never have messed with an already old game in an established modding community. They should have done this with a new game & let us get our feet wet (as modders & tryers) without fear of losing our beloved mods from drama and re-selling. They failed, they were burned in the process, but they'll try again.

 

Like every other paid hobby, paid-for-mods are inevitable & it's up to us to form some solid guidelines for them of what we will & will not allow - as a whole community of paid-for and freebie modders.

 

Just my $0.02. Hopping out.

so the donations arent enouph now thats fine i could easily set up a rack server to host half of the eastern united states do i do so NO WHY... ?! because this is a modding community and without the community there is no modding the community has spoken your payment is what we want it to be thats why there are NO PAID MODS but there is an existing donate button. On that note i doubt modders would become better program writers im willing to bet every mod on the nexus had more than 1 program writer writing the program. So before you go geting all butt hurt because your not geting paid maybe its just because us the skyrim modding community never donate to your mods because they are crap half of these modders dont even know how to use tes5edit which is extremely easy to use and made that way by many modders not just one

[arcanicdeath]

In response to post #25401489.

AzureRaptor wrote:

 

I think there's a line in the sand between professionals who earn their living working for game publishers and the amateurs who spend their spare time modding for fun. I think it would have been the first steps down a very slippery slope with no happy ending. The big corporations would have stepped in, once they realised they could harvest extra income via the paid modding scene and eventually they could well have "frozen" out the amateurs altogether.

PAID MODS ARE CALLED DLC...

EA Games milk the DLC Money Tree with games like The Sims. The publisher of Evolve (2K) has followed in EA's footsteps with a ridiculous amount of paid extra content issued "bold as brass" right at the moment of launch; that takes the mickey big time!

 

This. This is _exactly_ where the previous system was headed.

yes i completely agree and am glad to see modders and gamers sticking up for themselves in this matter alot of these modders would not know they even liked modding without the skyrim modding community that would have died or simply never have exist without an open non paid community to fuel its imagination i doubt betheseda even could predict this being as good as it is

[arcanicdeath]

In response to post #25128639. #25317979 is also a reply to the same post.

misleading wrote:

I'd rather play something made by an enthusiast who enjoys what they do over some shill trying to make some shekels any day.

 

Mod authors don't deserve to get paid at all. It's a privilege when developers release mod or map tools. And it's nice when developers and publishers set it up so modders can get rewarded for the content they contribute.

 

But it's not like anyone's stopping you from putting your mod on your own site and charging for it or e-begging for donations (get a job). If you're so set on making money, why not make some indie game? I mean, Unreal Engine is free. You could even put crafting, zombies, and building in it and make it early access on Steam because there aren't enough of those.

 

Be glad you can even mod these games. I remember when Call of Duty was synonymous with a great modding community with new content and mods every week. But now it's some lousy "AAA" rushed and over-priced title with the rest of the game sold in DLC installments of 15 bucks a pop.

 

Also, Steam taking 75% isn't that bad. They're providing hosting for your content and providing the media for you to profit from your content. You want to put your mods on your own site and sell them? You have to buy a domain and hosting, develop that website with a members area and at least link paypal into it.

phinix wrote: Was this the right approach to try and motivate modders to take on more elaborate and time-consuming projects? Maybe, maybe not. But I will say one thing. That attitude you just expressed, that entitled, disrespectful, arrogant and condescending attitude towards the people that develop content for people like you for nothing, frankly makes me sick and ashamed to be a part of anything a mindset like that represents.

Thankfully most people in this community are a little more open minded. Modders deserve nothing?

Go make it yourself!

thats why some modders are only on the nexus and not steam because there is a donate button if its worth donating to donate if you dont have the money a nice thank you will do and an endorsement button is right there for you

[arcanicdeath]

In response to post #25075374. #25078939 is also a reply to the same post.

Brandensa14 wrote: As far as the whole payment for mod thing goes, I kind of agreed with it. Modders work hard and put a lot of time and effort into what they create. I think they deserve to get paid for all the effort they do put into it. However, what steam did was infuriating. I would have been fine with paying for the mods, but that's if the money would have went to the modders, or at least most of it. Steam taking 75% was ridiculous and I thought it showed their greed. But they obviously care about the community more otherwise they wouldn't have rescinded it. So as far as I'm concerned, I forgive Steam for their greedy ways.

Tyerial12 wrote: i agreed with it aswell untill i found out Skyui and major major mods were going pay to have..

Heres Why:

GOOD BYE free mods that require Skyui (for those who can no afford to throw money on may work mods.

crap mods will be on the workshop for way too much money and there is no real way to know that they will work and you only had 24hrs to get the refund..

Last but not least hello free mods that SPAM you to buy the full verisons so all the free community would of been left with is a handfull of non skyui good mods and crappy spam mods.

Mod authors deserve to get paid yes but not in this way as its going to hurt communitys like this one and just bring more priracy.

piratebay skyrim mods XD oh wow that would be the biggest digital paper mache middle finger to valve and greedy modders they get to experience what the music and movie industies deal with and cant do a damn thing about because there are more consumers than publishers my advice keep it free with donations for the modders because with paid mods there is no way of avoiding this remember the customer is always right wheith they bought something or not a community is not a community if those that make up the community simply get up and walk away leaving you with a few suckers to leech off for awhile but either way modding will die

[slyztercore90]

In response to post #25128639. #25317979, #25505454 are all replies on the same post.

misleading wrote:

I'd rather play something made by an enthusiast who enjoys what they do over some shill trying to make some shekels any day.

 

Mod authors don't deserve to get paid at all. It's a privilege when developers release mod or map tools. And it's nice when developers and publishers set it up so modders can get rewarded for the content they contribute.

 

But it's not like anyone's stopping you from putting your mod on your own site and charging for it or e-begging for donations (get a job). If you're so set on making money, why not make some indie game? I mean, Unreal Engine is free. You could even put crafting, zombies, and building in it and make it early access on Steam because there aren't enough of those.

 

Be glad you can even mod these games. I remember when Call of Duty was synonymous with a great modding community with new content and mods every week. But now it's some lousy "AAA" rushed and over-priced title with the rest of the game sold in DLC installments of 15 bucks a pop.

 

Also, Steam taking 75% isn't that bad. They're providing hosting for your content and providing the media for you to profit from your content. You want to put your mods on your own site and sell them? You have to buy a domain and hosting, develop that website with a members area and at least link paypal into it.

phinix wrote: Was this the right approach to try and motivate modders to take on more elaborate and time-consuming projects? Maybe, maybe not. But I will say one thing. That attitude you just expressed, that entitled, disrespectful, arrogant and condescending attitude towards the people that develop content for people like you for nothing, frankly makes me sick and ashamed to be a part of anything a mindset like that represents.

Thankfully most people in this community are a little more open minded. Modders deserve nothing?

Go make it yourself!

arcanicdeath wrote: thats why some modders are only on the nexus and not steam because there is a donate button if its worth donating to donate if you dont have the money a nice thank you will do and an endorsement button is right there for you

what you said that modder doesnt deserve to get paid really not cool. even you are not agreed still you should say in a manner way. yes i against pay mod but still if steam change pay mod to donation mod i would agree.

modder spend many hour of their time to make some mod, they make it because they like it and they want their mod to be in game. then its up to them if they want to share or not. what make mod great because when they first create it, its not about profit but its about passion and love. and they listen to everyone play their mod for bug and error.

so instead you say in a disrespect way, better say it in a manner way. when you say "dont deserve" its way to disrespectful for someone spent time to make something for free.

[Deleted82156User]

 

piratebay skyrim mods XD oh wow that would be the biggest digital paper mache middle finger to valve and greedy modders they get to experience what the music and movie industies deal with and cant do a damn thing about because there are more consumers than publishers my advice keep it free with donations for the modders because with paid mods there is no way of avoiding this remember the customer is always right wheith they bought something or not a community is not a community if those that make up the community simply get up and walk away leaving you with a few suckers to leech off for awhile but either way modding will die

 

Pirates are without a doubt the most ignorant and stupid people. They congratulate themselves on pirating mods and are so ignorant that they have no comprehension that people are not going to continue making and uploading mods for others if their mods are being stolen. Who would? So the pirates deprive everyone of the work those modders would have released. Pure stupidity at it's best. No wonder so many talented modders only share mods behind the scenes to friends.

 

Stop this nonsense about 'greedy modders'. These people have been releasing their hard work for free for years. Thousands of hours of hard work. It boggles the mind when people who contribute nothing and do nothing but take have the sheer audacity and pure arrogance to call others who have given so much for free and now ask just a little in return.....'greedy'. Just incredible, I loose faith in humanity every time I see this selfish entitlement of others who believe that others should give and never receive anything in return.

 

The customer is not 'always right when they bought something', that misconception has been done away with for years.

 

Shezrie's Mods

[Moltenhead]

In response to post #25513419.

Shezrie wrote:

 

piratebay skyrim mods XD oh wow that would be the biggest digital paper mache middle finger to valve and greedy modders they get to experience what the music and movie industies deal with and cant do a damn thing about because there are more consumers than publishers my advice keep it free with donations for the modders because with paid mods there is no way of avoiding this remember the customer is always right wheith they bought something or not a community is not a community if those that make up the community simply get up and walk away leaving you with a few suckers to leech off for awhile but either way modding will die

 

Pirates are without a doubt the most ignorant and stupid people. They congratulate themselves on pirating mods and are so ignorant that they have no comprehension that people are not going to continue making and uploading mods for others if their mods are being stolen. Who would? So the pirates deprive everyone of the work those modders would have released. Pure stupidity at it's best. No wonder so many talented modders only share mods behind the scenes to friends.

 

Stop this nonsense about 'greedy modders'. These people have been releasing their hard work for free for years. Thousands of hours of hard work. It boggles the mind when people who contribute nothing and do nothing but take have the sheer audacity and pure arrogance to call others who have given so much for free and now ask just a little in return.....'greedy'. Just incredible, I loose faith in humanity every time I see this selfish entitlement of others who believe that others should give and never receive anything in return.

 

The customer is not 'always right when they bought something', that misconception has been done away with for years.

 

Shezrie's Mods

Pirates are not stupid people for the most.
Piracy represent a will to "counter" the main system/s, by violently opposing the actual policies, to show you're point. To make it short : piracy is violent revolutionism. By the way : terrorrism is a way of piracy, and revolutionist during WW2 where kind of pirates. Obviously, I'm not defending here the "pro-violence" dudes, but I felt the importance to replace words in their context.

What people nowadays call piracy is mostly about a selfish attitude because it's easy to access, rules and federationism isn't possible because the movement is too big. And yes : good old "rhum pirates" had rules and a way of federationism, through non exaustiv hierarchy.

But still, why do people nowadays are pirating ? Because they don't agree with the actual system. Why is it so hugelly spread ? Because the market treating it as "need to eradicate criminals" and not "we should maybe try to understand why it is so virulent".

For the obligatory payment thing. This has been very badly handled by steam and bethesda, since the communication about it was so bad. They didn't even tried to fit it in the community, just tried to force the customers of mods to instantly change their ways of doing.
That was violent, and badly introduced, for what it broke nearly spontaniously. That was so badly done that It even socialy damaged the moding comunity...

So yes : modders should be congratulated for their hard work, but a system is already partially working with the donations. And if they want more fundings, there are more better systems for doing so, than the way bethesda and steam did ; without consulting anyone except the market itself. Crowdfunding, sensibilisation to moders' work, selling goodies, and maybe one day a moding market ; as it has just been tried : but without forcing people to change their vision of something they love.
And most of all : with the system steam tried, there were lots of ways for "baddies", to trick people with it.

And yes : that is a fact, customers are always right when they bought something. I'de even say : customers make the market.
And if you think most people are thinking this way : you're wrong. I'm sometimes working as a shop assistant, and lots of them are thinking the opposite way : "I'm a customer, so I must be this or that way"...
You can argue what you want, without customers there is no market. But this doesn't means you have to be a dick as a customer.

P.S : yes, sorry for my approximated english, I'm French... but doing my best. ^^" Edited May 24, 2015 by AlienisSterkur

[AzureRaptor]

 

In response to post #25513419. P.S : yes, sorry for my approximated english, I'm French... but doing my best. ^^"

 

 

Your English may not be great, but your points are. :} Thank you.

[Deleted82156User]

In response to post #25513419. #25520169 is also a reply to the same post.

Shezrie wrote:

Pirates are without a doubt the most ignorant and stupid people. They congratulate themselves on pirating mods and are so ignorant that they have no comprehension that people are not going to continue making and uploading mods for others if their mods are being stolen. Who would? So the pirates deprive everyone of the work those modders would have released. Pure stupidity at it's best. No wonder so many talented modders only share mods behind the scenes to friends.

piratebay skyrim mods XD oh wow that would be the biggest digital paper mache middle finger to valve and greedy modders they get to experience what the music and movie industies deal with and cant do a damn thing about because there are more consumers than publishers my advice keep it free with donations for the modders because with paid mods there is no way of avoiding this remember the customer is always right wheith they bought something or not a community is not a community if those that make up the community simply get up and walk away leaving you with a few suckers to leech off for awhile but either way modding will die

Stop this nonsense about 'greedy modders'. These people have been releasing their hard work for free for years. Thousands of hours of hard work. It boggles the mind when people who contribute nothing and do nothing but take have the sheer audacity and pure arrogance to call others who have given so much for free and now ask just a little in return.....'greedy'. Just incredible, I loose faith in humanity every time I see this selfish entitlement of others who believe that others should give and never receive anything in return.

The customer is not 'always right when they bought something', that misconception has been done away with for years.

Shezrie's Mods

AlienisSterkur wrote: Pirates are not stupid people for the most.
Piracy represent a will to "counter" the main system/s, by violently opposing the actual policies, to show you're point. To make it short : piracy is violent revolutionism. By the way : terrorrism is a way of piracy, and revolutionist during WW2 where kind of pirates. Obviously, I'm not defending here the "pro-violence" dudes, but I felt the importance to replace words in their context.

What people nowadays call piracy is mostly about a selfish attitude because it's easy to access, rules and federationism isn't possible because the movement is too big. And yes : good old "rhum pirates" had rules and a way of federationism, through non exaustiv hierarchy.

But still, why do people nowadays are pirating ? Because they don't agree with the actual system. Why is it so hugelly spread ? Because the market treating it as "need to eradicate criminals" and not "we should maybe try to understand why it is so virulent".

For the obligatory payment thing. This has been very badly handled by steam and bethesda, since the communication about it was so bad. They didn't even tried to fit it in the community, just tried to force the customers of mods to instantly change their ways of doing.
That was violent, and badly introduced, for what it broke nearly spontaniously. That was so badly done that It even socialy damaged the moding comunity...

So yes : modders should be congratulated for their hard work, but a system is already partially working with the donations. And if they want more fundings, there are more better systems for doing so, than the way bethesda and steam did ; without consulting anyone except the market itself. Crowdfunding, sensibilisation to moders' work, selling goodies, and maybe one day a moding market ; as it has just been tried : but without forcing people to change their vision of something they love.
And most of all : with the system steam tried, there were lots of ways for "baddies", to trick people with it.

And yes : that is a fact, customers are always right when they bought something. I'de even say : customers make the market.
And if you think most people are thinking this way : you're wrong. I'm sometimes working as a shop assistant, and lots of them are thinking the opposite way : "I'm a customer, so I must be this or that way"...
You can argue what you want, without customers there is no market. But this doesn't means you have to be a dick as a customer.

P.S : yes, sorry for my approximated english, I'm French... but doing my best. ^^"

We will have to agree to disagree then. Stealing someone elses work will never be acceptable and there is never a valid excuse for theft.

Piracy is not a 'revolution' against the system, it is people who cannot/will not pay for other peoples hard work, yet consider themselves entitled to it for free. It is theft, illegal, immoral, disrespectful and rude and selfish. It boils down to people just don't want to pay....so they steal.

No, the introduced pay mods scheme was not 'violently' done. The only violent thing that went on was the disgusting violence and abuse against not only the companies, but also the individual modders involved. There is no justification ever for demanding on mass that people 'commit suicide' or threatening to track them down, kill them and their family and rape their corpse. No justification for the most vile abuse and hatred, and also finding and releasing peoples personal information online so that the abuse could be taken further then the internet No justification EVER for that and no excuse period.

No one 'forced' the community to do anything, it was always an offered option to buy or sell mods. You couldn't take mods down and resell them, Steam forbid that, free mods were not going anywhere. Only new mods or updated mods could be sold. People were entitled to disagree with paid for mods, but the backlash was unwarranted, incredibly unreasonable and not even done by the majority of the TES community at all. The majority of the upheaval and abuse was thrown by users from various websites that don't give a damn about mods or TES, they incite riot of the 'lulz'.

Yes communication could have been better, but really I don't think that would have actually made any difference at all. People were out for riot because they just don't want to pay. What should have happened was a far more calm, mature and less offensive approach to disagreeing with the situation if indeed the majority of the community did disagree.

No the customer is not always right. I worked over ten years in customer service and you learn that you cannot please everyone, it is impossible. Many dissatisfied customers are completely unreasonable. But the point is that those trolls that hurled abuse and crap were never customers and were never going to be customers, ever. We gain nothing from those people downloading our mods, except frequently abuse, so really their opinion actually means nothing.

The only social damage done to this community is the very clear and plain message sent out to modders about exactly how much value the public actually puts on modders and mods, the learning and knowledge required to mod as well as the hundreds, often thousands of hours of hard work that goes into making mods. When push came to shove and users were asked to give something beyond the odd endorsement and nice comment in order to get a mod ....the majority flat out didn't want to, many to the point of making death threats. But they all still happily consume all our work, often without so much as a thank you.

Add to that the point when it became not only okay but encouraged and applauded to pirate our mods. This community has ALWAYS stood against piracy and rallied and fought to protect our modders rights regarding their hard work for the ten years I have been here. This is where the community let it's own down the hardest, not just the public, other modders who felt free to condone theft of mods, yet stood up expecting us all to rally and protect their free mods in the recent 450 mods theft by some russian guy. Trust has been lost and it is not Steam or Bethesda's fault or pay for mods fault. It was the unnecessary, disgusting behavior exhibited by a large portion of this community, sorry but that is just a fact.

I have no doubt that what will come out of this and I know for a fact already has, is that modders have left, modders have got the 'message' and are now just distributing mods to friends. This whole thing was a slap it the face, kick in the balls and punch in the gut of people who have given so freely of their time, knowledge and hard work for years, by not only the public but also other modders. I am disgusted, revolted and angry.

Now that the trolls have moved onto the next shiny thing the real TES community is finally coming out of hiding. Those that do support and appreciate the value of someone elses time and effort. Those that tried to speak up but were subjected to disgusting abuse. The part of the community that is actually reasonable and even if they disagree would never resort to prepubescent temper tantrums.

There and I told myself that I would not get involved in any of these discussions. I guess I am still angry and hurt by what was a shocking display of entitlement and violence. I will not be reading or replying to this thread further, I have had enough of peoples 'opinions' to last me a life time and I see no reason to have to 'defend' myself even more. I don't mean to offend anyone and never did. I am trying to focus on the kind words that many have sent me because after ten years as part of this community I don't want to leave or feel that I cannot still release my work....but sometimes it is hard, I won't deny that.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Guest

[phantompally76]

In response to post #25513419. #25520169, #25533254 are all replies on the same post.

Shezrie wrote:

 

piratebay skyrim mods XD oh wow that would be the biggest digital paper mache middle finger to valve and greedy modders they get to experience what the music and movie industies deal with and cant do a damn thing about because there are more consumers than publishers my advice keep it free with donations for the modders because with paid mods there is no way of avoiding this remember the customer is always right wheith they bought something or not a community is not a community if those that make up the community simply get up and walk away leaving you with a few suckers to leech off for awhile but either way modding will die

 

Pirates are without a doubt the most ignorant and stupid people. They congratulate themselves on pirating mods and are so ignorant that they have no comprehension that people are not going to continue making and uploading mods for others if their mods are being stolen. Who would? So the pirates deprive everyone of the work those modders would have released. Pure stupidity at it's best. No wonder so many talented modders only share mods behind the scenes to friends.

 

Stop this nonsense about 'greedy modders'. These people have been releasing their hard work for free for years. Thousands of hours of hard work. It boggles the mind when people who contribute nothing and do nothing but take have the sheer audacity and pure arrogance to call others who have given so much for free and now ask just a little in return.....'greedy'. Just incredible, I loose faith in humanity every time I see this selfish entitlement of others who believe that others should give and never receive anything in return.

 

The customer is not 'always right when they bought something', that misconception has been done away with for years.

 

Shezrie's Mods

AlienisSterkur wrote: Pirates are not stupid people for the most.
Piracy represent a will to "counter" the main system/s, by violently opposing the actual policies, to show you're point. To make it short : piracy is violent revolutionism. By the way : terrorrism is a way of piracy, and revolutionist during WW2 where kind of pirates. Obviously, I'm not defending here the "pro-violence" dudes, but I felt the importance to replace words in their context.

What people nowadays call piracy is mostly about a selfish attitude because it's easy to access, rules and federationism isn't possible because the movement is too big. And yes : good old "rhum pirates" had rules and a way of federationism, through non exaustiv hierarchy.

But still, why do people nowadays are pirating ? Because they don't agree with the actual system. Why is it so hugelly spread ? Because the market treating it as "need to eradicate criminals" and not "we should maybe try to understand why it is so virulent".

For the obligatory payment thing. This has been very badly handled by steam and bethesda, since the communication about it was so bad. They didn't even tried to fit it in the community, just tried to force the customers of mods to instantly change their ways of doing.
That was violent, and badly introduced, for what it broke nearly spontaniously. That was so badly done that It even socialy damaged the moding comunity...

So yes : modders should be congratulated for their hard work, but a system is already partially working with the donations. And if they want more fundings, there are more better systems for doing so, than the way bethesda and steam did ; without consulting anyone except the market itself. Crowdfunding, sensibilisation to moders' work, selling goodies, and maybe one day a moding market ; as it has just been tried : but without forcing people to change their vision of something they love.
And most of all : with the system steam tried, there were lots of ways for "baddies", to trick people with it.

And yes : that is a fact, customers are always right when they bought something. I'de even say : customers make the market.
And if you think most people are thinking this way : you're wrong. I'm sometimes working as a shop assistant, and lots of them are thinking the opposite way : "I'm a customer, so I must be this or that way"...
You can argue what you want, without customers there is no market. But this doesn't means you have to be a dick as a customer.

P.S : yes, sorry for my approximated english, I'm French... but doing my best. ^^"

Shezrie wrote: We will have to agree to disagree then. Stealing someone elses work will never be acceptable and there is never a valid excuse for theft.

Piracy is not a 'revolution' against the system, it is people who cannot/will not pay for other peoples hard work, yet consider themselves entitled to it for free. It is theft, illegal, immoral, disrespectful and rude and selfish. It boils down to people just don't want to pay....so they steal.

No, the introduced pay mods scheme was not 'violently' done. The only violent thing that went on was the disgusting violence and abuse against not only the companies, but also the individual modders involved. There is no justification ever for demanding on mass that people 'commit suicide' or threatening to track them down, kill them and their family and rape their corpse. No justification for the most vile abuse and hatred, and also finding and releasing peoples personal information online so that the abuse could be taken further then the internet No justification EVER for that and no excuse period.

No one 'forced' the community to do anything, it was always an offered option to buy or sell mods. You couldn't take mods down and resell them, Steam forbid that, free mods were not going anywhere. Only new mods or updated mods could be sold. The backlash was unwarranted, incredibly unreasonable and not even done by the majority of the TES community at all. The majority of the upheaval and abuse was thrown by users from various websites that don't give a damn about mods or TES, they incite riot of the 'lulz'.

Yes communication could have been better, but really I don't think that would have actually made any difference at all. People were out for riot because they just don't want to pay. What should have happened was a far more calm, mature and less offensive approach to disagreeing with the situation if indeed the majority of the community did disagree.

No the customer is not always right. I worked over ten years in customer service and you learn that you cannot please everyone, it is impossible. Many dissatisfied customers are completely unreasonable. But the point is that those trolls that hurdled abuse and crap were never customers and were never going to be customers, ever. We gain nothing from those people downloading our mods, except frequently abuse, so really their opinion actually means nothing.

The only social damage done to this community is the very clear and plain message sent out to modders about exactly how much value the public actually puts on modders and mods, the learning and knowledge required to mod as well as the hundreds, often thousands of hours of hard work that goes into making mods. When push came to shove and users were asked to give something beyond the odd endorsement and nice comment in order to get a mod ....the majority flat out didn't want to, many to the point of making death threats. But they all still happily consume all our work, often without so much as a thank you.

Add to that the point when it became not only okay but encouraged and applauded to pirate our mods. This community has ALWAYS stood against piracy and rallied and fought to protect our modders rights regarding their hard work for the ten years I have been here. This is where the community let it's own down the hardest, not just the public, other modders who felt free to condone theft of mods, yet stood up expecting us all to rally and protect their free mods in the recent 450 mods theft by some russian guy. Trust has been lost and it is not Steam or Bethesda's fault or pay for mods fault. It was the unnecessary, disgusting behavior exhibited by a large portion of this community, sorry but that is just a fact.

I have no doubt that what will come out of this and I know for a fact already has, is that modders have left, modders have got the 'message' and are now just distributing mods to friends. This whole thing was a slap it the face, kick in the balls and punch in the gut of people who have given so freely of their time, knowledge and hard work for years, by not only the public but also other modders. I am disgusted, revolted and angry.

Now that the trolls have moved onto the next shiny thing the real TES community is finally coming out of hiding. Those that do support and appreciate the value of someone elses time and effort. Those that tried to speak up but were subjected to disgusting abuse. The part of the community that is actually reasonable and even if they disagree would never resort to prepubescent temper tantrums.

There and I told myself that I would not get involved in any of these discussions. I guess I am still angry and hurt by what was a shocking display of entitlement and violence. I will not be reading or replying to this thread further, I have had enough of peoples 'opinions' to last me a life time and I see no reason to have to 'defend' myself even more. I don't mean to offend anyone and never did. I am trying to focus on the kind words that many have sent me because after ten years as part of this community I don't want to leave or feel that I cannot still release my work....but sometimes it is hard, I won't deny that.

@Shezrie,

The customer doesn't have to use or endorse your products, either.

At the end of the day, pirates didn't cause this rift of ill will between mod authors and mod users. You did.

It would have been one thing if you would have put out a mod that was worth paying for. But you didn't. None of you did. No matter how many hundreds of hours you put into a mod, if the quality isn't there, then you simply cannot justify putting a price tag on it.

You are NOT entitled to money just because you spend a lot of time on mods. No one has ever forced you to make them. You created them on your own time at your own expense. It's NOT the modding community's obligation to reimburse you. If endorsements, praise and gratitude aren't enough for you, then you're probably involved in the wrong amateur hobby, and if you really want to take your ball and go home, then by all means, do so. You've already done enough damage to this community.

Fundamentally, the pirates aren't the bad guys. The mod users who rallied against paid modding aren't the bad guys. The Youtube reviewers aren't the bad guys. At this point, the only bad guys in this matter are the mod authors who are still acting like petulant children because they didn't get their way, and who continue to lecture the community on why we should have paid for early access, stolen assets, and/or just plain terrible mods, all without quality control, and without the assurance that the mods would improve or continue to function.

Like it or not, the modding community has made its opinion on this matter crystal clear, and if you are unwilling and/or unable to accept that and move on, then you're doing the community as well as yourself a gross disservice. Edited May 25, 2015 by phantompally76