Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

[SNSDLOVER]

They should have done it differently. You dont just randomly start giving people the ability to "sell" their mods. What they shouldve done is just add a donation button...I dont see how that is hard -_-

[GhostAgent]

Hello Dark0ne,

 

Thank you for keeping us all updated in regards to the matter. I would like to share an endorsement model that I truly believe would be a great benefit to the Nexus community. I posted this in your other blog, but it was quickly buried and I doubt you even saw it.

 

So I am posting it again here hoping that you have a chance to see it, and I would also appreciate feedback from the community on it as well! It is a fairly long post, so I am using a spoiler so as to not take up everyone's space.

 

Original post:

 

 

 

Due to Steam's paid model coming out, more and more Nexus users are offering donations to their favorite mod authors. This is absolutely fantastic and shows that the community is willing to give rather than just receive (as it primarily has been doing), and further it shows that people prefer Nexus over Steam. (Of course Steam auto-updates mods which can break games, so I don't blame them.)

 

 

I think now is the absolute perfect time to revamp Nexus' current donating system and offer a better alternative for both modders and mod authors than steam. Below are some ideas to go about this which I believe you will like:

 

--1-- The major underlying factor (in my opinion) is that some of these authors mod for more than a hobby and would absolutely love to get into the gaming scene. Of course they make professional mods and would be ultra super happy to be reimbursed for their work. This theory is backed by the fact that so many modders jumped aboard Steam's roll out--which hasn't gone so smoothly. (They need a serious PR team to consult.)

 

 

Nexus is already a better alternative to Steam due to it being free and because it is the largest modding community. (Thank you by the way.) What we need is a better way to offer donations. That is where the idea comes in. Remember when you rolled out your new endorse feature? What happened? More mods were endorsed. The users that completely forgot to endorse mods all of a sudden were nicely reminded to endorse their downloads and viola.....endorsements grew.

 

 

So, this new system would run a check for mod download dates and mods currently used. NMM could be easily upgraded to do this. If a mod has been installed and stayed in someone's list for say.....Oh.....2 or 3 months, it is safe to assume that they are keeping the mod and have enjoyed playing with it. After a check is run, they will have a little popup with a friendly text noting that they have used said mod for roughly two months and that if they enjoy it, they should consider donating a dollar or two in order support the modder. They will then be presented with two options: 1) Donate or 2) No thank you and do not ask me again in regards to this mod.

 

 

See? Alright, so that little popup will popup for each mod used for at least two months. This way no one is being bombarded.

 

The whole concept could even apply to manual downloaders as well, though it would be slightly different. The reminder screen would be a popup or somehow attached to the endorsement management screen. Or better yet, right on the download screen where the "reminder to endorse" is at. (It would also remind you of mods you downloaded a couple of months back and ask if you would like to donate or decline donating.)

 

 

This I feel would contribute to more donations. But......that is really the tip of the iceberg of the possibilities which are explored further below:

 

 

--2-- We could build the Nexus around not just an endorsement community, but donation community too. Right now, people get recognized if they support the site--which is a good idea. However, a new screen could be placed in the mod's navbar (where it is has the buttons for the description, the files, the posts, the changelog etc) that shows the names of the donators--NOT the amount of the donations though, as some prefer to keep that private. Further, a scoring system (which I will refer to as a "Merit System" could be incorporated that gives points for people who donate and new titles could be listed under the current member statuses (the supporter or member titles). These new titles would be to reward the donators--names such as "Grateful User", "Outgoing Supporter", "Generous User" and "Mod Author Contributor"--just examples. The more you donate to authors (NOT the amount of the donations) the more points you get and after attaining so many points, your rank is increased.

 

 

That whole concept let's people see first hand who is truly grateful and sets them apart. There is of course no punishment for the "gimme" users, but donating will be encouraged and accepted as much as endorsements.

 

This method encourages people to donate even if it is just a buck--nothing fancy like $10 dollar donations or $15 dollar donations. Rather $1 dollar donations for files that thousands of people have access to. Plus, another popup could be given when they endorse! Such as: "We're glad you liked the mod enough to endorse it! Would you care to donate a dollar to the author as well as a thank you for his effort?". That isn't so blunt and I'm sure many would go ahead. (Imagine 4000 people donating a dollar to a mod author. Viola.......)

 

Further, after they click endorse and see a contribute button appear, they will enter the amount themselves. This way they aren't tied to just giving one dollar--most will give two or three.

 

 

This concept develops into a model of trades of services too:

 

--3-- This one is sort of rough, but the donations don't have to be in the form of money necessarily. Mod authors could manually list a name of a user in the new "donated to the mod" screen for people who truly give back by donating time and or some sort of service. If someone made a graphic (title) for a mod, the author could manually list that user as a donator, or even if someone helps to trouble shoot user issues, they could be listed too. The author chooses. This is a bit more prestigious than being listed as a co-author and more accurate. (I'm thinking of one point allowed per mod, not multiple points per mod--that system would be abused.)

 

 

Tying it all in: remember the idea of a merit system? If someone is listed as being a donater, they receive merit points and will be recognized as a good community member. So, more people could start helping out in unique ways and earn merit points from mod authors. People would be more inclined to be the helpful user so as to get points. (A drastic change from the outcry of selfish jerks I've seen lately.)

 

 

So now we would have a community of reciprocity rather than a community of "give me everything for free, and I may endorse if I find your works worthy of my praise", Big difference........

 

 

it doesn't stop there......this whole idea of a merit system will have the ultimate award of being given a year free membership of the Nexus. (A whole bunch of points will of course be needed for that award though.) If someone is already a member, then they will have a membership that they can "gift" to someone else--such as a new author they like or a friend within the community. See? The gift keeps on giving.

 

(If they aren't a lifetime member, they could keep the membership time for themselves and just have it appended to their current membership time too.)

 

 

Now, this system of reciprocity includes helping out the Nexus as well:

 

--4-- Alright, so now we have a community based on reciprocity and endorsements. The Nexus can get some aid too!

 

I read from you that mod authors uploading on steam can click a little checkbox which functions as a thank you to a community of their choosing and the Nexus is one of those. If someone purchases a mod, 5% of Valve's income goes to the Nexus. It works as if though the author is donating a small portion of profit to the Nexus, but the funds are coming from Valve--which is a nice gesture by the way.

 

 

That idea could be recycled here. When a mod author opens the option to donate on one of his mod's pages, he can check whether he wants to donate some to the Nexus or not. Let's use the same amount--5% of the donation. That would offer some aid to the Nexus. I'm sure most the authors here would allow that.

 

In the name of transparency, a little screen would alert the donator that the author has selected a small percentage of donations to aid the Nexus as well and a sincere thank you message should follow.

 

 

That is the whole of the idea. So, what we would be doing is offering a much friendlier service as an opposition to Steam's Pay For Mod model. Mod authors would still retain control over their work which will make them happy and keeps the authors uploading mods here on the Nexus rather than Steam, which of course helps the Nexus too and those donations will end up yielding higher amount for the mod author since the majority of the funds goes straight to them. Plus, members who support them are given recognition in the community, and part of their support could automatically go towards the Nexus if the mod author so chooses to allow it--which most will.

 

 

All that and the users who are in it for the freebies and don't care about giving anything back can still have full access to all the content found on the Nexus. Plus, since this is strictly a donation based system, legal rights over modded assets remains a non-issue where as there has already been an issue over on the Steam side of things. I truly believe that this model of supporting mod authors--which is really just an enhanced version of what we currently have--would be embraced and seen as the proper method for financially aiding the many awesome creators out there. Paying isn't in any way enforced on anybody and the mod authors who prefer to keep donations closed are able to still do so.

 

 

Now, what do you think? I'm not an author........but I am a supporter of one! So, I came at this from a different angle rather than mod user vs modder which is what the little battle was all about. If you like this concept as a whole and would like me to help your staff implement any or all of these ideas, I would be happy to do so. It would be my little way of giving back to the Nexus.

 

:) That's all I got.

 

 

Thank you for your time; regards,

 

GhostAgent

[daedriccat]

In response to post #24733199. #24733474, #24733594, #24733919, #24733969 are all replies on the same post.

Elta1 wrote:

sa547 wrote: All the damage could've been averted if the powers-that-be asked for a public consultation in the first place.

Saije wrote: Stop trying to ride the white horse here.

Modders turncoated on the community with hilarious haste.

Users responded in the way that an individual betrayed will always respond.

And now that the dust is settled and the greedy have shown their true colors.

(The fact that they don't give flying f*#@ about the community, just money.)

Now that the paid modding has been vanquished and said greedy individuals have no

recourse except to accept that they were completely happy in their betrayel.

You try to paste the blame on the ones betrayed rather then the ones betraying...

Ridiculous.


I hope if one lesson has been learned from all this it is this...

People will betray each other in a heartbeat when money is involved.


The only modders who deserve any sympathy are the ones that were attacked by the

greedy capitalist pushing pissants for not standing at the side of their fellow turncoats.

Sorry if I get banned for this comment... But it needed to be said.

focusv5 wrote: In a world where everyone has a voice (the internet), you're going to get all kinds of extremes in terms of opinions, and it clearly showed over the past few days. The blame cannot be placed solely on the users as if they were all issuing death threats and spewing absolute hatred. There were of course many users that were constructive and not issuing death threats by explaining that this system could have worked if it was implemented better. Don't let the sour few spoil your opinion of the masses. I wouldn't hop on the 'pity bethesda/valve' train as a result of hearing death threats as these sorts of statements are not uncommon in nearly all avenues of life. You make absolute statements like 'the users' as if they represented everyone, there were many who were calmly involved in the discussion as well.

JCDNWarrior wrote: Change is not neccesarily good. We're talking about a hobby that many of us have put thousands of hours into. I don't think the modding community should be seen as villains in this. Especially if people wish to ascribe good intentions to Valve and Bethesda (Two companies that would probably not even exist anymore or be very small without their modding communities).

AAA gaming has been going downwards for years and modding is what keeps the spirit of gaming alive for millions of people. Messing with that by introducing money and consequentially greed, on top of a very easily abused system of Steam Workshop and more and more information uncovered about how this was planned long in advance, and there's no way that the modding and gaming communities wouldn't raise absolute hell over this.

I just truly hope that all parties learn from this. However, with monetary interests involved, I think everyone should be vigiliant that this could happen all over again, just better repacked in PR-speak than Gabe Newell's meltdown AMA.

Lets stop calling those who wanted to keep to the TES tradition of sharing free mods as being afraid of change. That is short sighted and ignorant and the typical cry of those who wanted to profit from modding.

[FairDrogon]

Nice :)

[JCDNWarrior]

In response to post #24733874.

Clowncircle wrote:

This. If we can consider eachother in the community as friends, then know that friends can be harsh to one another, when speaking truth. They can push and shove and tease and complain or even get extremely mad at one another - Not because of hate, but because you care for eachother and the hobby you share with one another.

[Brasscatcher]

In response to post #24732584.

WightMage wrote:

High five, Wight. It was a pleasure to make your acquaintance. I include popcorn and phantom in this list too. I'll be chucking out a few friend requests today.

Asside from all the namecalling asshats, you people debate WELL. Even those of you making a case for the pay2mod marketplace. Salute.

I guess I have to stick around and be social now...it's kind of hard to go back into the cave after all this! Besides, with my confidence restored, I have mods to get back to work on!

[RobertSkyrim94]

In response to post #24734014. #24734039 is also a reply to the same post.

RobertSkyrim94 wrote:

jfisha wrote: Think of how some of these mod authors must feel now that valve has basically thrown them under a bus

well, that must suck for them but i do hope that this doesn't make them quit modding, cuz, at least in my opinion (and as unfinished as it was) the Shadow scale armor looked pretty cool.

[SNSDLOVER]

In response to post #24732344. #24732604, #24732704, #24732709, #24732774, #24732869, #24732879, #24733044, #24733464, #24733739, #24733824, #24733844 are all replies on the same post.

CelticPaladin wrote:

calfurius wrote: I know quite a few modders became disgusted with the way some members of the modding community treated them. I'm mostly concerned if Chesko is coming back or not, he didn't deserve anywhere near the level of hate that he got.

phantompally76 wrote: I hope that's not the case.

I do, however, hope that in future they think twice about arrogantly condescending mod users looking for assistance with their mods in comments sections, like they have in the past. I'd stopped using some of their mods before this crap ever started because of that.

Riprock wrote: Hopefully time will make him realize that words on the internet are just words. We put way too much stock in typed messages.

CelticPaladin wrote: The number of vitriol and death threats were insane. I couldn't blame them for leaving this community behind. It'd be depressing, but there you go.

meredithmiles wrote: What I don't understand is why Arthmoor, Chesko and Isoku don't already have job offers in hand. Seriously, they are all three hardworking, dedicated and skilled. If I ran a game company I'd have snatched them up ages ago.

This is a great time to donate to them, I think.

jfisha wrote: Each team only lost a handful of endorsements. Yes, there was some angry vitriol, but most people respectfully disagreed with what they did. No more, no less.

BarnabasCollins wrote: I don't even see why people were targeting the modders anyway. For me this was never even about the modders, but the future of modding itself. The modders are innocent.

oblivion104 wrote: I stayed away from the melodrama and only sign the petition,but what happened to chesko??

Also, what happened to the paid mods? Did they take it down?

phantompally76 wrote: heh, apt user name there.

Wait, there are mods for Skyrim??????

Noortje wrote: They would never have updated skyui if it wasn't for the pay offer. I doubt they will finish skyui 5.0 and release it now, but it's not like it was ever going to be free in the first place.

Saije wrote: f*#@ that... We weren't black hearted. They were when they gave us a big green middle finger.

Honestly if they love modding and love sharing their mods to us, I doubt theyll leave. Modding could be their hobby or passion so Im certain this wont make them go away.

[adragon82]

PLEASE READ. Even though I am not a modder here and haven't since The Sims 2, I love this community and have been a "user" here for a long time. Please, read and comment on the end point and lets show Bethesda the way...\

 

I still see something major not being touched on not only on their side, but on this side as well.

 

This is not a new thing, pay mods have been done before and we (at least some of us) remember what it does to modding communities.

 

The Sims 2 is still the most modded game in history and still had the largest modding community in history, yes, even larger than this wonderful community here, which is the second largest in history.

 

That game was free mods...until it exploded in popularity...and one very popular modder pulled out of the Mod the Sims site in favor of their own, for their own mods...and to make them pay only. That in and of itself was not a bad thing...however, they also then stated that they would no longer share their resources and anyone using them in a current mod had to pull their mods.

 

But, then another modder did it along with the small group of other modders he made mods with and that group started their own pay site...and pulled their resources and told those that were using them to pull their mods.

 

And then another did it...and another...and suddenly, somewhere around 1000 mods being removed later...the community split. Paid mods that were using others resources were being told to stop using them or to pay up, they refused. Many stopped sharing resources all together out of fear that someone would use them for pay mods...and the community started to fall apart.

 

Some of those pay modders placed lawsuits against others claiming their ideas were being stolen. pay sites were being blacklisted and a few were removed by the host after receiving many complaints.

 

The only reason that modding community survived was due to the Mod the Sims site. (I will skip talking about Spore here, another game that had Pay Mods on EA's Spore site that was destroyed from within)

 

We already saw the beginning effects of the above right here with some modders placing new disclaimers on their mods stating they will not share their resources for anyone making a pay mod.

 

Everyone here knows THAT alone is bad. This is such a wonderful productive community because of the sharing of resources and the collaborations, once that is disrupted, everyone suffers.

 

The issue here, is that this modding community was tossed into a large bucket with every...single...other...modding community as if its all the same. As if the tiny modding community for Counter Strike, GTA, COD...Half Life...were exactly the same.

 

Those games, the mods are stand alone mods. They rarely if ever use resources from other mods. Those games are not modded remotely like Bethesda games are, where there are mod managers and you can have over 200 mods going at the same time...where mods need to play nice with each other... where if people don't share their mod resources, the entire community suffers for it and it even makes it more difficult for mods staying compatible and even enhance each other.

 

They placed GARY'S MOD in the same category as a mod that ads a sword to the game so how COULD they understand right? Afterall, they think are both "mods" and thus, are the same. That is where the problem lies, Bethesda didn't actually seem to be in touch with the modding community, the inner workings of it and what makes it tick.

 

If they had, this never would have been done...perhaps, they would have set up a donation option and figured out a way to make that more prominent in the community by pushing the idea that the more donations there are, the odds that more mods, more larger mods, and better quality mods would eventually be made because it would draw in more people looking to get paid.

 

The issue for many isn't that a modder can make money...its that the community will suffer with pay mods because modders will work AGAINST each other, instead of WITH each other like they have been. They will compete and in the modding world, competition doesn't = better quality, it means no working with other modders and also that its in one modders best interest to limit the competition...

 

That, is the real issue.

 

For those that still don't understand what I am pointing out here...imagine, SkyUI maker decides he is going full pay only and the makers of many of the mods that use it and MGM decide they are NOT going to make their mods compatible with SkyUI anymore.

 

That is the split that Sims 2 saw...and technically we saw here with SkyUIs maker. The process of everyone working together has been shaken and its a shame. Every modder should be able to make money...but not like this...not with a game like this where modding is too reliant on being open and working in a sharing way.

 

We need a COMMUNITY push on making donations more popular. A COMMUNITY effort. WE must do this folks. And we should do it without Bethesda...especially without Valve. We need to do this, on our own.

 

Lets get together, figure out a way to make those donations HERE more prominent. Ideas like making Donations available for all mods with no opt out. Having a Donation notice at the top of all mod discriptions stating that donations are available for us to give to the mod makers. Push the "fact" that the more donations start flowing the more inspired modders get, the more the community draws in more moders and even the possibility of seeing even more massive sized mods.

 

let US make the example first...then see if the leadership HERE wants to get Bethesda involved in the process on how to do it on Workshop...its our community...lets take control of our own destiny by showing the way to do it in way that wont harm what we are a part of.

[chaptermaster21]

Finally! See people? When the community unites no company can stop it, because if we share the same vote and vote with our own wallets they can't stop us. Yes they were trying to make a business out of the mods and monetize even more things, yes beth my have had another vision than what happened but that is nothing compared to what we the entire gaming community not only the modding community can do!, if valve the biggest game distributing company on PC and bethesda one of major gaming companies couldn't stop us when we united against them, imagine what the entire gaming community can do when we unite against other shameful practices!