Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

[Cjonas]

I hope the wounds from this can heal fast. I know I have learned something from this and plan to donate money when I can to the authors of my favorite mods. With out them these games would not be as fantastic as they are.

 

[Brasscatcher]

In response to post #24734094.

SNSDLOVER wrote:

That's the crazy part about all of this...they just DID IT! No heads up, no public discourse at all! It was such a mind-bendingly stupid approach, I don't know how they ever thought conjecture and people's own imaginations wouldn't fill in the blanks. Craziness!

[Vaultgirl6]

In response to post #24734539. #24734589, #24734829, #24734894, #24734914 are all replies on the same post.

fore wrote:

CelticPaladin wrote: Considering they said only 8% of total Skyrim customers play mods, and less than 1% actually make them, then no I don't think 50% of their sales would be gone if the SDK wasn't released.

fore wrote: 8% ??? Beg your pardon. How do they count that?

Skyrim HD alone has 7,3 Million users. What's the total count of Skyrim customers?

Brasscatcher wrote: I don't trust their numbers. I don't know a single person who plays the PC variants of any of Bethsofts games that doesn't run AT LEAST a dozen mods. I'd need to see their data collection methods to agree to their posted results.

AverageZombie wrote: @Celtic
They never gave the source of those numbers but assuming we go off of the top downloaded mod with 7.3m downloads (15.2m total, this is just unique users) with 8% that puts the user count for PC users at 91m users assuming the entire 8% of modders use the 2k texture pack. The only figure they have released is 20m sales across all platforms in 2013. It's highly unlikely that sales have doubled but even so you should be able to see some number discrepancies. I have little doubt that they fluffed the percentages by using console sales. Take their apology with a grain of salt.

That was actually a lie, they didnt really know the actual numbers. They just picked one out of a hat, all of us should know there is tons more than that. So what Fore said is true.

[raulfin]

In response to post #24734099.

GhostAgent wrote:

I didn't read it all yet, but I feel the donation pop up when endorsing a mod might be a bit much, we can already have a pop up when downloading, much more than that and it's moving into the "in your face" area.

[TehKaoZ]

In response to post #24733199. #24733474, #24733594, #24733919, #24733969, #24734114, #24734584, #24734984 are all replies on the same post.

Elta1 wrote:

sa547 wrote: All the damage could've been averted if the powers-that-be asked for a public consultation in the first place.

Saije wrote: Stop trying to ride the white horse here.

Modders turncoated on the community with hilarious haste.

Users responded in the way that an individual betrayed will always respond.

And now that the dust is settled and the greedy have shown their true colors.

(The fact that they don't give flying f*#@ about the community, just money.)

Now that the paid modding has been vanquished and said greedy individuals have no

recourse except to accept that they were completely happy in their betrayel.

You try to paste the blame on the ones betrayed rather then the ones betraying...

Ridiculous.


I hope if one lesson has been learned from all this it is this...

People will betray each other in a heartbeat when money is involved.


The only modders who deserve any sympathy are the ones that were attacked by the

greedy capitalist pushing pissants for not standing at the side of their fellow turncoats.

Sorry if I get banned for this comment... But it needed to be said.

focusv5 wrote: In a world where everyone has a voice (the internet), you're going to get all kinds of extremes in terms of opinions, and it clearly showed over the past few days. The blame cannot be placed solely on the users as if they were all issuing death threats and spewing absolute hatred. There were of course many users that were constructive and not issuing death threats by explaining that this system could have worked if it was implemented better. Don't let the sour few spoil your opinion of the masses. I wouldn't hop on the 'pity bethesda/valve' train as a result of hearing death threats as these sorts of statements are not uncommon in nearly all avenues of life. You make absolute statements like 'the users' as if they represented everyone, there were many who were calmly involved in the discussion as well.

JCDNWarrior wrote: Change is not neccesarily good. We're talking about a hobby that many of us have put thousands of hours into. I don't think the modding community should be seen as villains in this. Especially if people wish to ascribe good intentions to Valve and Bethesda (Two companies that would probably not even exist anymore or be very small without their modding communities).

AAA gaming has been going downwards for years and modding is what keeps the spirit of gaming alive for millions of people. Messing with that by introducing money and consequentially greed, on top of a very easily abused system of Steam Workshop and more and more information uncovered about how this was planned long in advance, and there's no way that the modding and gaming communities wouldn't raise absolute hell over this.

I just truly hope that all parties learn from this. However, with monetary interests involved, I think everyone should be vigiliant that this could happen all over again, just better repacked in PR-speak than Gabe Newell's meltdown AMA.

daedriccat wrote: Lets stop calling those who wanted to keep to the TES tradition of sharing free mods as being afraid of change. That is short sighted and ignorant and the typical cry of those who wanted to profit from modding.

SirTopas wrote: Oh, horsecrap, Saije. If modding does come to an end, it will be folks like you with your pitchforks, torches, tar and feathers who end it with your demands for "ideological purity". You and your ilk have already driven Chesko, the author of Frostfall and other outstanding mods, out of the community completely. On the other hand, you, I note, have never published a mod. Again I ask, who is more greedy? The modders who have put thousands of hours and real money into modding or people like you who demand that the results of that work be provided to you for free?

Hamthaak wrote: SirTopas: You just received a kudo for this.
Saije: no offense, mate. but this kind of attitude is just what i got tired of in the last days. Who betrayed you? Who owes you (and me, and anyone else here) anything? We should be thankfull to anyone who creates mods we can use for free. THEY are the basis of this "community".

^This

[badkrma]

In response to post #24734844.

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote:

This is true....if it weren't for mods, I would never have put 100's of hours into each Bethsoft game... Edited April 28, 2015 by badkrma

[SirTopas]

In response to post #24731789. #24731909, #24732094, #24732139, #24732229, #24732289, #24734304, #24734404, #24734464, #24734509 are all replies on the same post.

nonemployee wrote:

Riprock wrote: Impossible to avoid ruffling feathers going the other way, I'm afraid. Omelet and eggs however, in my opinion. We can't go back but we can go forward :)

Avastgard wrote: I feel bad for the modders who took the time to make these updates only to have them removed days later. After this, we may never see SkyUI v. 5.

CelticPaladin wrote: If I received the death threats those people did I'd give modding a middle finger and go straight back into IT.

phantompally76 wrote: Those versions of Isoku's mods still belong to Valve. LEGALLY they can tell him he can't put them on here.

I'm not at all sure they'd be bold enough to try that though.

On the other hand, would he be bold enough to update them here?

sa547 wrote: It's unfortunate that on Reddit one of the members of the SkyUI team used the wrong approach and language, hence he sort of wrecked the mod's public image.

Aavok wrote: Wait, what happened on Reddit?

daedriccat wrote: He said that there was no community in Skyrim.

Beetlecat wrote: I'm not sure it's true that he *can't* distribute them elsewhere, only that Valve can legitimately do what they want with them.

phantompally76 wrote: Wasn't just reddit.

Go look at SKYUI's comments section on here. It's been locked, but the dev's arrogant, condescending and smug demeanor is preserved.

Yes, he was taking a beating from some VERY angry commenters, but he was also taunting them. That's unacceptable, and for that reason I will never upgrade or endorse SkyUI whether they upload it or not.

@phantompally76 - But you'll keep using it, won't you? You seem to lack the strength of conviction to uninstall it, but you'll trash the authors and say "I won't upgrade". Pretty weak sauce.

[jfisha]

In response to post #24732344. #24732604, #24732704, #24732709, #24732774, #24732869, #24732879, #24733044, #24733464, #24733739, #24733824, #24733844, #24734224, #24734679, #24734879, #24734924, #24735019 are all replies on the same post.

CelticPaladin wrote:

calfurius wrote: I know quite a few modders became disgusted with the way some members of the modding community treated them. I'm mostly concerned if Chesko is coming back or not, he didn't deserve anywhere near the level of hate that he got.

phantompally76 wrote: I hope that's not the case.

I do, however, hope that in future they think twice about arrogantly condescending mod users looking for assistance with their mods in comments sections, like they have in the past. I'd stopped using some of their mods before this crap ever started because of that.

Riprock wrote: Hopefully time will make him realize that words on the internet are just words. We put way too much stock in typed messages.

CelticPaladin wrote: The number of vitriol and death threats were insane. I couldn't blame them for leaving this community behind. It'd be depressing, but there you go.

meredithmiles wrote: What I don't understand is why Arthmoor, Chesko and Isoku don't already have job offers in hand. Seriously, they are all three hardworking, dedicated and skilled. If I ran a game company I'd have snatched them up ages ago.

This is a great time to donate to them, I think.

jfisha wrote: Each team only lost a handful of endorsements. Yes, there was some angry vitriol, but most people respectfully disagreed with what they did. No more, no less.

BarnabasCollins wrote: I don't even see why people were targeting the modders anyway. For me this was never even about the modders, but the future of modding itself. The modders are innocent.

oblivion104 wrote: I stayed away from the melodrama and only sign the petition,but what happened to chesko??

Also, what happened to the paid mods? Did they take it down?

phantompally76 wrote: heh, apt user name there.

Wait, there are mods for Skyrim??????

Noortje wrote: They would never have updated skyui if it wasn't for the pay offer. I doubt they will finish skyui 5.0 and release it now, but it's not like it was ever going to be free in the first place.

Saije wrote: f*#@ that... We weren't black hearted. They were when they gave us a big green middle finger.

SNSDLOVER wrote: Honestly if they love modding and love sharing their mods to us, I doubt theyll leave. Modding could be their hobby or passion so Im certain this wont make them go away.

redrat07 wrote: there were d-threats to people who left to go to the paid system ?

phantompally76 wrote: @redrat, not in the quantities that people here want you to believe.

There was certainly some of it.....there always is. But the vast majority of butthurt mod authors and white knights are including irate mod users who posted "uninstalled and unendorsed, shame on you" along with any amount of criticism in that category. And THOSE comments grossly outnumbered any sort of threats, and were perfectly fair and justified.

BluemaxDR wrote: Oh, they won't stop developing mods. Just stop posting.

Arendella wrote: Chesko I don't have a problem with.

Isoku and SkyUi? definitely will never use their mods again *Will just use old version of SkyUi*. Was just a big slap in the face when he was all giddy about putting his mods up on Steam Workshop just pissing everyone off even more.

Thumbs up, Phantompally.

There are some mod authors that are going pull an Anita Sarkeesian and chastise our entire community because of a very small amount of very angry comments, but if you go back and look at comments, you'll notice most of them are people just saying they're disappointed and unendorsing.

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24733199. #24733474, #24733594, #24733919, #24733969, #24734114, #24734584, #24734984, #24735109 are all replies on the same post.

Elta1 wrote:

sa547 wrote: All the damage could've been averted if the powers-that-be asked for a public consultation in the first place.

Saije wrote: Stop trying to ride the white horse here.

Modders turncoated on the community with hilarious haste.

Users responded in the way that an individual betrayed will always respond.

And now that the dust is settled and the greedy have shown their true colors.

(The fact that they don't give flying f*#@ about the community, just money.)

Now that the paid modding has been vanquished and said greedy individuals have no

recourse except to accept that they were completely happy in their betrayel.

You try to paste the blame on the ones betrayed rather then the ones betraying...

Ridiculous.


I hope if one lesson has been learned from all this it is this...

People will betray each other in a heartbeat when money is involved.


The only modders who deserve any sympathy are the ones that were attacked by the

greedy capitalist pushing pissants for not standing at the side of their fellow turncoats.

Sorry if I get banned for this comment... But it needed to be said.

focusv5 wrote: In a world where everyone has a voice (the internet), you're going to get all kinds of extremes in terms of opinions, and it clearly showed over the past few days. The blame cannot be placed solely on the users as if they were all issuing death threats and spewing absolute hatred. There were of course many users that were constructive and not issuing death threats by explaining that this system could have worked if it was implemented better. Don't let the sour few spoil your opinion of the masses. I wouldn't hop on the 'pity bethesda/valve' train as a result of hearing death threats as these sorts of statements are not uncommon in nearly all avenues of life. You make absolute statements like 'the users' as if they represented everyone, there were many who were calmly involved in the discussion as well.

JCDNWarrior wrote: Change is not neccesarily good. We're talking about a hobby that many of us have put thousands of hours into. I don't think the modding community should be seen as villains in this. Especially if people wish to ascribe good intentions to Valve and Bethesda (Two companies that would probably not even exist anymore or be very small without their modding communities).

AAA gaming has been going downwards for years and modding is what keeps the spirit of gaming alive for millions of people. Messing with that by introducing money and consequentially greed, on top of a very easily abused system of Steam Workshop and more and more information uncovered about how this was planned long in advance, and there's no way that the modding and gaming communities wouldn't raise absolute hell over this.

I just truly hope that all parties learn from this. However, with monetary interests involved, I think everyone should be vigiliant that this could happen all over again, just better repacked in PR-speak than Gabe Newell's meltdown AMA.

daedriccat wrote: Lets stop calling those who wanted to keep to the TES tradition of sharing free mods as being afraid of change. That is short sighted and ignorant and the typical cry of those who wanted to profit from modding.

SirTopas wrote: Oh, horsecrap, Saije. If modding does come to an end, it will be folks like you with your pitchforks, torches, tar and feathers who end it with your demands for "ideological purity". You and your ilk have already driven Chesko, the author of Frostfall and other outstanding mods, out of the community completely. On the other hand, you, I note, have never published a mod. Again I ask, who is more greedy? The modders who have put thousands of hours and real money into modding or people like you who demand that the results of that work be provided to you for free?

Hamthaak wrote: SirTopas: You just received a kudo for this.
Saije: no offense, mate. but this kind of attitude is just what i got tired of in the last days. Who betrayed you? Who owes you (and me, and anyone else here) anything? We should be thankfull to anyone who creates mods we can use for free. THEY are the basis of this "community".

TehKaoZ wrote: ^This

SirTopas, what about the thousands of hours mod USERS have logged playtesting mods, providing quality control, reporting bugs and glitches, providing feedback and suggestions to mod authors? Hmmm????

Not having ever created a mod does not invalidate one's opinion or stance on the matter. Without mod users, there would be no mod authors. Don't you ever forget that.

[cornbreadtm]

In response to post #24734539. #24734589, #24734829, #24734894, #24734914, #24735059 are all replies on the same post.

fore wrote:

CelticPaladin wrote: Considering they said only 8% of total Skyrim customers play mods, and less than 1% actually make them, then no I don't think 50% of their sales would be gone if the SDK wasn't released.

fore wrote: 8% ??? Beg your pardon. How do they count that?

Skyrim HD alone has 7,3 Million users. What's the total count of Skyrim customers?

Brasscatcher wrote: I don't trust their numbers. I don't know a single person who plays the PC variants of any of Bethsofts games that doesn't run AT LEAST a dozen mods. I'd need to see their data collection methods to agree to their posted results.

AverageZombie wrote: @Celtic
They never gave the source of those numbers but assuming we go off of the top downloaded mod with 7.3m downloads (15.2m total, this is just unique users) with 8% that puts the user count for PC users at 91m users assuming the entire 8% of modders use the 2k texture pack. The only figure they have released is 20m sales across all platforms in 2013. It's highly unlikely that sales have doubled but even so you should be able to see some number discrepancies. I have little doubt that they fluffed the percentages by using console sales. Take their apology with a grain of salt.

Vaultgirl6 wrote: That was actually a lie, they didnt really know the actual numbers. They just picked one out of a hat, all of us should know there is tons more than that. So what Fore said is true.

The numbesr were bs. That whole post was literally bs. I can some bastard in a suit sitting down writing that whole post from his office with a view.

It was filled with lies and 80% the response posts were just about pointing out the lies. Even had posters from some of the most popular mods pointing out that their unique download numbers easily mad 8% false.

Hell they even said they don't use DRM. When Steam does for them which is the whole reason they used them as their main distributor!

They're lying but I don't understand why? The truth would cause them a lot less hate. "98% of the current users of our game use mods, so we decided to profit off of it." Everyone would go "I don't like it but it's a good business decision..." instead of "So why do it, if your not going to make any money?" smh