Benefits of a Paid Modder - for the Modders, the Users, and for Business

[Korodic]

Because the market has done such a great job of sorting things like that out in the past, how do you think we ended up with microtransactions being an industry standard?

So because these practices are in place mod authors should be denied a chance to make $? Microtransactions and preorders are incentive/advantage based. Paid mods are more like unofficial DLC. Even then, it's optional. If you think it interests you, then you buy it. Otherwise you don't.

[RurikNiall]

Never said that, I simply don't buy into this idea that paid mods would give incentive to produce better mods when all the evidence I've seen tells me otherwise, game expansions are nearly extinct these days because it's more profitable for game companies to sell you a couple of OP guns for $2 than it is for them to create an expansion pack and people still pay for those guns, the only modding community I've ever been a part of that has had paid mods long before this mess those mods are of lower quality than the mods offered for free by the community, the bulk of the mods chosen by Valve and Bethesda to showcase their new system were microtransaction swords, none of these things give me even the slightest reason to believe paid mods will lead to this golden age that Valve and Bethesda tried to convince us it would.

Edited May 1, 2015 by RurikNiall

[raptuzwindbreaker]

In the ideal economics sense, a higher price should encourage a modder to produce more or higher quality content.

 

But this is where things start to go wrong. A modder working alone has limited skillsets (affecting quality) and time (affecting quantity). A good DLC is not created on time by one single coder slaving day and night. Where does cooperation start and end, is there a legal framework to enforce such cooperative agreements?

 

This is why trivial re-texture mods will become more popular. Economically rational modders will maximize profit, and that means maximizing revenue with minimal costs. Hence the "micro" in microtransactions.

 

tl;dr: Falskaar is fast becoming a cliched example, but how many modders can create a Falskaar alone before giving up?

Edited May 1, 2015 by raptuzwindbreaker

[Deleted31005User]

 

but how many modders can create a Falskaar alone before giving up?

Probably none, that guy even crashed at hes dads house and got financial support from hes dad, all of this was done with the knowledge that he would use Falskaar to showcase at company interviews so he could get a job.

He basically slaved away in some basement for several months to finish that mod, it was not so much about passion as it was about getting a job in the gaming industry.

But even Falskaar was not completely created by just one person, I think he has lots of new custom voices and they all come from different people, I'm sure there is more stuff in that mod where others helped him to make certain things possible.

[soupdragon1234]

But this is where things start to go wrong. A modder working alone has limited skillsets (affecting quality) and time (affecting quantity). A good DLC is not created on time by one single coder slaving day and night. Where does cooperation start and end, is there a legal framework to enforce such cooperative agreements?

Well typically taking say a start up business as an example you either reach an informal agreement depending on how friendly you are with each other or if you have any sense you sign a formal agreement thats legally binding and for that you consult a lawyer who will draw it up for you.

[RurikNiall]

 

Probably none, that guy even crashed at hes dads house and got financial support from hes dad, all of this was done with the knowledge that he would use Falskaar to showcase at company interviews so he could get a job.

 

but how many modders can create a Falskaar alone before giving up?

He basically slaved away in some basement for several months to finish that mod, it was not so much about passion as it was about getting a job in the gaming industry.

But even Falskaar was not completely created by just one person, I think he has lots of new custom voices and they all come from different people, I'm sure there is more stuff in that mod where others helped him to make certain things possible.

 

 

See, now that brings up something I think would be a far better incentive. Instead of selling mods I'd love to see Bethesda hold a yearly mod contest, runner up gets some shiny, clinky gold, while the winner gets offered a job by Bethesda or, if they don't want it they can opt for cash as well. Maybe have different tiers with different prizes, it just wouldn't be fair pitting a sword, albeit a really nice sword, against Skywind or Falskaar.

[ShadowDragyn]

 

 

Probably none, that guy even crashed at hes dads house and got financial support from hes dad, all of this was done with the knowledge that he would use Falskaar to showcase at company interviews so he could get a job.

 

but how many modders can create a Falskaar alone before giving up?

He basically slaved away in some basement for several months to finish that mod, it was not so much about passion as it was about getting a job in the gaming industry.

But even Falskaar was not completely created by just one person, I think he has lots of new custom voices and they all come from different people, I'm sure there is more stuff in that mod where others helped him to make certain things possible.

 

 

See, now that brings up something I think would be a far better incentive. Instead of selling mods I'd love to see Bethesda hold a yearly mod contest, runner up gets some shiny, clinky gold, while the winner gets offered a job by Bethesda or, if they don't want it they can opt for cash as well. Maybe have different tiers with different prizes, it just wouldn't be fair pitting a sword, albeit a really nice sword, against Skywind or Falskaar.

 

...So removing someone from the modding scene is better than them charging for the mods they make? Plus, that would literally only help one person per year.

Not to mention, working in the industry is not exactly rainbows and sunshine.

Plenty of pro developers would rather get paid to make their own mods, if they could.

I know a fair number of the people making items for DotA 2 once worked in game studios.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Shadow_Dragyn

[rms827]

I can't believe I'm being sucked into this after all the "world is ending" hype when there were paid mods on Steam. Let's try to put things into perspective.

 

First, as much as I'm personally opposed to paid mods, all that Steam did was put in a system where you had the OPTION to buy mods. It was straight free market capitalism. Despite the crap some of you have been fed by teachers, that's NOT a bad thing. It simply means let the market, ie... the BUYER (AKA YOU) decides if you want to buy it or not. If nobody buys it, there's no money made. The price will come down or it'll become free if there's no interest in buying it. There's nothing inherently evil in that. Even more so when Steam still had free mods.

 

The only paid mod that outright offended me was Chesko's Camping mod, but that was because it was already FREE here. Granted there were a couple of minor tweaks in the new steam version but trying to charge for something that you've been giving away for free is just wrong. That was a protection I would have like to have seen. I'd hate to have to pay for the Unofficial Patches for example.

 

It's been free is really the problem here though, isn't it? 40,000 mods here on the Nexus alone for Skyrim, so they ALL should be free. :blink: Sounds nice in theory, and again for the most part, I agree. My own little mod on Steam and the second one I'm working on will be Forever Free. Allowing modders to charge for mods is going to encourage them to develop more mods like Falskaar, Wyrmstooth, Interesting NPCs, and some of the most spectacular home mods out there though. Think about how big Falskaar is,,, How many hours that multiple people put into developing that mod. Are any of you going to tell me that IF IT WAS NEW, that you wouldn't pay a few bucks for that much new content? I sure would.

 

Yes, donations are a generally great way to go too. How many of you have actually played thru Falskaar (probably multiple times), but never donated a dime to it's mod team though? Probably why there was never a Falskaar 2, or why Discworld never got finished by the makers of Dragon Break 1 & 2. A mod that big can become a full time job for months for multiple people.

 

In short, those of you that even went so far as to boycott (forever) free mods like mine on the Workshop just to spite Steam... Put yourself in the other person's shoes. Maybe sometimes a big mod that adds greatly to the game and somebody gave up hundreds of hours of their life to produce is worth paying a few bucks for, huh? If it's crap that people want to charge for, DON'T BUY IT. The market, (them not making any money) will send those folks a message. Likewise this whole drama shows that there are still plenty of people like me who will provide mods for free. Paid mods didn't kill The SIms 3, nor end it's free modding community. Donations are better, yes. We have to actually donate though.

 

So yeah, I favor free mods, but paid mods wouldn't be the end of the world. Steam just needed to block charging for old mods and actually make sure that the modder got the money instead of them.

Edited May 1, 2015 by rms827

[RurikNiall]

 

...So removing someone from the modding scene is better than them charging for the mods they make? Plus, that would literally only help one person per year.

Not to mention, working in the industry is not exactly rainbows and sunshine.

Plenty of pro developers would rather get paid to make their own mods, if they could.

I know a fair number of the people making items for DotA 2 once worked in game studios.

 

 

If the mod author's goal is to get into the game industry then absolutely I believe they should be rewarded in such a manner. If they don't then as I mentioned they could opt for a cash reward. You also missed the parts where I mentioned different tiers for mods of varying degrees of intricacy and specifically mentioned the idea of there being runners up. Furthermore who said anything about helping only one person? If the mod was a team effort then the entire team gets rewarded, and there's absolutely nothing that says Bethesda can't pull an American Idol and offer the runner up a position as well if they feel they deserve it.

[RexSeptim]

I think the forces of economics - supply and demand - would take care of most of these concerns, all valid though they may be, if the market for it is kept open, honest and fair. And I think the Nexus is a proven venue for that. Haha, I'm volunteering the Nexus for something when I have no idea if they'd want to do it. That's just respect for a job well done.

 

I really don't see a problem in a system for a supplier to offer something for sale to a consumer. The market will find an equilibrium point between them, i.e. something is worth what someone is wiling to give up to get it. I'd give up a micro-transaction - $.25, $1, $2, $10 for some of these mods - and I'd give not a cent for some of the others, even if I would download it. The modder in turn might be willing to let me have it for $.25, $1, $2, $10 or maybe for free, whatever their reasons may be. If I and they meet at a happy point, an exchange is made.

 

I further don't see a problem in the Nexus and even Bethesda taking a commission on that sale. I do see a problem with Steam taking a cut but that's just because I don't like them so much, hahaa. Really, if Steam hosted a market, there'd be someone to shop there and that'd be their business.

 

And I do think mods made for love, for pride, for artistic release, for whatever reason, by for free modders can coexist with a professional market. I don't see the two as the same thing. There is a difference between the oft cited Falskaar and a retexture of some vanilla clothing in five new colors that's otherwise the same thing as vanilla. I think we might see more Falskaars if there were a market for it. I think we might see no less retextures of vanilla clothes and such, if there remains a vibrant community for that.

 

A market for modders and consumers is just an opportunity. No one has to take advantage of it. Perhaps no one would, which is to say the demand would not be there and the supply would go away, like any other market. Right now, the opportunity is just not there, donation system notwithstanding.

 

The example of Falskaar is not an example of how good free can be. Falskaar was made for economic gain, i.e. that modder wants a job/paycheck. That modder offered something for a chance of something in return. That's a market. You have to applaud someone willing to put it on the line like that. Hope it works.

 

One of the posts mentioned SKSE may not be able to charge because they are flirting with legal boundaries with the way their mod works. My point is especially prescient here - I think if Bethesda has a stake in this then they would work with someone like the SKSE team. As it is, Bethesda has allowed SKSE to stand and an incalculable number of mods now depend on it. Consider how much value SKSE adds to Skyrim and to Bethesda's coffers in turn. Consider what SKSE might be if the team behind it had Bethesda's cooperation and blessing. I am certain Bethesda is considering this, as well as the backlash from this Steam-powered brouhaha. I think the next TES could be built with modding like SKSE and SkyUI and Falskaar and etc. in mind. I think the Creation Kit could be more powerful and more intuitive if they did. I think modders could do even more if they had such superior tools and the knowledge Bethesda is working with them and not against. I think Bethesda would do that in the next TES if they stand to get a cut. Bethesda would not be evil for seeking another revenue stream.

 

I am in no way complaining about free mods. I like getting something for nothing. And I can appreciate the value of gain that comes in other forms besides money. Like respect. Fame. Appreciation. Those can be very rewarding. Here's another - satisfaction for something done that adds to other's lives, makes the world a little better place to live. Volunteering does that for me. Picking up litter does that for me.

 

But, I must admit, I'd pick up more litter if it were dollar bills.