Drawing a line under recent events and moving on

[AccessionSoft]

Keep mods free and DLC separate. Here is the solution:

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/accessionsoft/820112016?token=93ddc8ac

 

This company will allow individual mod authors and asset creators to generate income while keeping price tags off of small independently made mods. There will be full support, and no asset stealing tolerated. Skilled individuals can gain immediate income without risk. The free modding community will remain free and larger high quality additions will be generated quickly and frequently. This is the future of professional modding.

Edited May 3, 2015 by AccessionSoft

[Marstonn]

In response to post #24900869. #24904704, #24905524, #24905659, #24906294, #24906494, #24923654 are all replies on the same post.

SoMteam wrote: What we need is a second video game crash. Otherwise the greed will ruin the fun of games entirely. The comments in this thread back me up on this.

Taiolu wrote: Soon. The games+ thing hipster indies are doing, the ban from games feature valve is doing, and gamergate with its autoblocker thing going will all combine into a storm of hellfire into an autoblocker for games. Consoles will become nonexistant with the turn of quantum computers and all that will be left is a sea of pure chaos that sweeps videogames to death. Compatibility with these games will not be bothered by the likes of microsoft, nvidia may likely perish. In the end of the storm may come a day, a game on par with doom in terms of beginnings, and the chaos will cease and form an even better method of video games. Time shall have passed where virtual realty lets you even smell the air around you. All will be well, there just needs to be a big enough shitstorm first.

WightMage wrote: More likely, the gaming industry's bubble will just burst, ruining most of the largest ones and a few indie companies, just like the housing market. It'll recover, of course, but not for awhile.

phantompally76 wrote: I wish there was a way to bury all those cash-grab mods in the New Mexico desert....

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Nice E.T. reference.

Atari rushed the programmers to get that cartridge on the shelves before Christmas, and the rest is history. We certainly see a lot of that today, and nobody learns from the mistakes of the past. It's about money money money profit profit profit.

Blademaster1215 wrote: AVGN movie was rather well timed on this one considering that reference....

retnav98 wrote: Phantom,

"...me thinks he doth protest too much."

If you continue to RAIL against pay mods in the manner you do, you only accomplish dissonance. You believe that your protest was the reason for Valvethesda's capitulation..I think it is folly to believe it was the only reason or even the primary motivation...But I think that even if you are correct, continuing to vilify Modders of any position, only hurts your "SIDE" as most simply IGNORE your posts.

Or maybe, you continue to protest for that reason.

Oh man, comparing the gaming market with housing market bubble. The most stupid comment i ever seen. I'm a freedom of speech defender, but please if you'll talk a thing like that just don't talk. Edited May 3, 2015 by Marstonn

[sunshinenbrick]

 

In response to post #24900869. #24904704, #24905524, #24905659, #24906294, #24906494, #24923654 are all replies on the same post.

 

 

 

SoMteam wrote: What we need is a second video game crash. Otherwise the greed will ruin the fun of games entirely. The comments in this thread back me up on this.

Taiolu wrote: Soon. The games+ thing hipster indies are doing, the ban from games feature valve is doing, and gamergate with its autoblocker thing going will all combine into a storm of hellfire into an autoblocker for games. Consoles will become nonexistant with the turn of quantum computers and all that will be left is a sea of pure chaos that sweeps videogames to death. Compatibility with these games will not be bothered by the likes of microsoft, nvidia may likely perish. In the end of the storm may come a day, a game on par with doom in terms of beginnings, and the chaos will cease and form an even better method of video games. Time shall have passed where virtual realty lets you even smell the air around you. All will be well, there just needs to be a big enough shitstorm first.

WightMage wrote: More likely, the gaming industry's bubble will just burst, ruining most of the largest ones and a few indie companies, just like the housing market. It'll recover, of course, but not for awhile.

phantompally76 wrote: I wish there was a way to bury all those cash-grab mods in the New Mexico desert....

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Nice E.T. reference.

 

Atari rushed the programmers to get that cartridge on the shelves before Christmas, and the rest is history. We certainly see a lot of that today, and nobody learns from the mistakes of the past. It's about money money money profit profit profit.

Blademaster1215 wrote: AVGN movie was rather well timed on this one considering that reference....

retnav98 wrote: Phantom,

 

"...me thinks he doth protest too much."

 

If you continue to RAIL against pay mods in the manner you do, you only accomplish dissonance. You believe that your protest was the reason for Valvethesda's capitulation..I think it is folly to believe it was the only reason or even the primary motivation...But I think that even if you are correct, continuing to vilify Modders of any position, only hurts your "SIDE" as most simply IGNORE your posts.

 

Or maybe, you continue to protest for that reason.

Oh man, comparing the gaming market with housing market bubble. The most stupid comment i ever seen. I'm a free speech defender, but please if you'll talk a thing like that just don't talk.

 

Bubbles are bubbles, to think they are not connected is naive. When a stock broker flushes their life down the toilet on one side of the world, it can cause a tsunami on the other. This is a basic result of globalisation.

[soupdragon1234]

You had to be a mod user before being a mod author, regardless for what game, right?

 

Nope. There are countless tutorials out there on how to author a mod and failing that they ask fellow authors, whether you happen to reverse engineer someone else's work is irrelevent. Its not a requirement to start modding to use one already. If there was no Nexus or Workshop people would still create them. In fact mod authors are typically secretive about their completed works and hide script source files and if they could lock down the rest I'm pretty sure most would.

 

 

The simple fact is, "leeches" (as you so eloquently put it) ARE important to this community because without "leeches", there would be nobody to become mod authors. Mod authors who don't see that as rampant arrogance are just fooling themselves.

 

 

To reiterate since you seem to be creating a strawman Nexus wouldn't exist without mod authors. Users wouldn't exist without something to download. Without mod authors there is nothing. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

 

Mod authors don't require users, but users absolutely require mod authors they want something other a vanilla game. So yes they are the most important persons other than the owner of the site that allows them to be shared. If you think otherwise you're deluding yourself, which was LP's point.

 

So until you contribute something useful to a community you are a leecher, yes, or as Dark0ne put it, bottom of the pile. Whether you may or may not be offended by the term is really beside the point.

Edited May 3, 2015 by soupdragon1234

[Vesuvius1745]

In response to post #24929404.

soupdragon1234 wrote:

 

The simple fact is, "leeches" (as you so eloquently put it) ARE important to this community because without "leeches", there would be nobody to become mod authors. Mod authors who don't see that as rampant arrogance are just fooling themselves.

 

 

Eh? Since when did an author of a mod require someone to download it? Mod authors make mods that they never even release. So these mods don't exist because no-one has seen them other than the author? They exist in some kind on indeterminate state like Schodinger's Cat?

 

Nexus wouldn't exist without mod authors. Users wouldn't exist without something to download. Without mod authors there is nothing. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

 

Mod authors don't require users, but users absolutely require mod authors they want something other a vanilla game. So yes they are the most important persons other than the owner of the site that allows them to be shared. If you think otherwise you're deluding yourself.

Oh jeeze, not this again.

Mods are not made in a vacuum. I don't know of a single fledgling mod author who woke up one day, snapped their fingers, and a mod was created out of thin air.

The first step in this process is the mod author fires up yet another piece of Bethesda's Intellectual Property--the Creation Kit. What this means is mod authors are using a tool that belong to someone else (they aren't programming it from the ground up in C++ like the authors of some OTHER resources and utilities, but more on that later)

The next step is they need to learn how to mod. This includes but is not limited to dissecting the mods of other people who have came before them. Often times they rely on feedback after a Beta version of the mod is released, and mod users help them troubleshoot and find bugs.

The next step is they want to make the mod something more than a mediocre creation. This can include but is not limited to: borrowing resources from other mods (again, usually perfectly FINE in an "open source" sharing community), "borrowing" images from various sources for retextures (unless the modder themselves is an artist but that is rare), utilizing utilities and resources given for FREE to the community by people who actually DID create this stuff from the ground up (such as ENB, SKSE, FORE etc.), and many other things I don't have time to mention here.

To sum up: Mod authors have not only enjoyed all the free mods themselves that have been given to the community over the years, they have also stood on the backs of all those people in order to make their own creations. The best modders today were the "leeches" yesterday, and tomorrow's up-and-coming modders are the same people you are now calling leeches. The reason for the name calling is many of you don't understand what an "open source" community is.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Vesuvius1745

[pleasenoname]

I listened to the entire 2 hour Total Biscuit interview. Saw it posted on

steam. Shared is with several people 3 or so days ago. I have read nearly

every major discussion that occured during the controversy. I am one of

the few people who can claim neutrality, because I was busy at the time.

 

I contacted the guy who made SkyUI a few weeks before what I will refer

to henceforth as the, "Modpocalypse 2015". I was hoping he could give me

some tips on inserting SVG graphics I made into the game map/menu. I

was going ahead on researching how to do it myself, his help would have

sped up the process considerably though.

 

So I went up to the mountain top to work on the problem myself in

isolation. At the same time I was putting together another computer. I

diligently learned about the menu system from fragmentary sources. Some

Bethesda programmer from 2011 in posts said that he could talk about a

limited set of things regarding it(meaning the menu system is DRM-ified).

The menus are in flash format and some are in Scaleform flash format,

which in my opinion is DRM encryption.

 

I found a decompiler needed to access the content of the flash files.

Unfortunately I had to change my Java setting to run through my browser

to the decompiler in an unsecure way. More on that later

 

The next problem was that I needed to recompile my art into the files.

So long story short I had to download the Unreal engine to use it to

interact with the scaleform DRM flashform. O, what is this though? I am

told I must have the flash developement tool from adobe to use the

command window that deals with scaleform in Unreal engine. It's "only"

$700, thats all. Then some rep says, "Student edition $100. At that point I

don't care how much student edition is because i am insulted at the web

of DRM and consumerism that is blocking my way from being creative.

That's the "Great Paywall" right there.

 

So I find a command line tool that requires me to make a batch file. Text

is written in the batch file that directs stuff to file location and there

are flags written in the batch file to configure how it compiles. I am not a

programmer so setting the flags is a matter of trial and error for me.

 

I sucessfully alter the menu with the command line tool, however the

flags are incorrect so the game crashes on menu open. Still more trial and

error to go. Unbeknownst to me during my isolation the Modpacalypse

had started. Since hearing about paid mods I fell into a deep sadness and

couldn't play Skyrim at all. Also Chinese hackers invaded my computer

through the Java connection used for the decomiler and even boot time

scan wouldn't remove the virus infestaion and I had to remove the hard

drive completely. This is the main reason I missed the Modpocalyse.

 

Eventually I came down from my mountain of isolation with my half

finished stone tablets as it were of modifications. And from a distance I

saw the modding community making a golden calf or perhaps a gear logo,

it was on the horizen, hard to see. Everyone was going crazy and doing

all manner of wild things and I asked my brother aa..., I mean Dark0ne

(Robin Scott), "I left you to watch over them, why have not you stopped

this?". And he said to me, "They gave me gold and forced me to do it".

At the ignobility of it I threw down the stone tablet of unfinished mods on

the ground and it broke into pieces.

 

I then try to see the paymods that are up during the end of the

Modpocalypse. I notice they all have cover art like some slick advertising

campaign, that makes me wonder how that could be organized on such

short notice. I see the conversation on Reddit and watch as Gabe dodges

questions about DRM and exclusivity(meaning he plans to enact it if

possible). Also I should mention that the money to the Nexus from the

workshop while in your mind, as well as your lawyers mind as being clear

legally, is not safe in a social context.

 

The intent of the money is because some people believe that if they give

you money that they have you or you owe them. Its a win-win for the

giver of the money in that if things go sour the community percieves that

you sold out. So its a lose-lose for you to take that money

I believe the distributor involved in this sees you as competition, because

it is trying to make it self the one shop stop for everything (just look at

the Community tab).

 

That is why they left for the weekend and walked

away. When it was said, "Didn't someone speak to you" that translates

into didn't you get your money, go away. You are British so you may not

see that. There are minor differences in communication style.

 

This is further demonstrated in the comments of a certain mod author that

took his pay mod down. Someone else's assets were in it and he was in a

non-disclosure agreement with the distributor. The advice he got from the

distributor was to go ahead post the mod up its fair game. So in effect

they encouraged stealing. Then after he did the right thing by requesting it

be taken down, they told him that they wouldn't remove it unless made to

by the law. It was theirs.

 

Both business insider and Forbes articles were written about how it was

such a bad idea.

Also I noticed LFD2 doesn't have pay mods. something to think about.

I believe it was purposeful to create division in the community.

 

And so after the stone tablet modifications lay on the ground as shards,

the golden calf was melted down. Everyone was made to drink the melted

down gold. Brum... something, protested and called me a "terrorist", while

he was sitting next to a guy named Toatl, despite the fact I was on the

mountaintop during the entire Modpocalypse. Then my brother Dark0ne

and that Brum guy said, you don't contribute enough and you were on the

mountaintop this whole time, you feel "entitled".

 

Dark0ne, you have said that it takes $500,000 to run the servers

apparently. Perhaps the community should off load this expensive cost

from you. There are many good programmers in the community that could

make a peer to peer client that could be used by the tens of thousand or

millions of Skyrim or other game players to host the mods in part on

their computers in decentralized parts. This would offload monetary

concerns from you.

[Vesuvius1745]

In response to post #24930654.

pleasenoname wrote: I listened to the entire 2 hour Total Biscuit interview. Saw it posted on
steam. Shared is with several people 3 or so days ago. I have read nearly
every major discussion that occured during the controversy. I am one of
the few people who can claim neutrality, because I was busy at the time.

I contacted the guy who made SkyUI a few weeks before what I will refer
to henceforth as the, "Modpocalypse 2015". I was hoping he could give me
some tips on inserting SVG graphics I made into the game map/menu. I
was going ahead on researching how to do it myself, his help would have
sped up the process considerably though.

So I went up to the mountain top to work on the problem myself in
isolation. At the same time I was putting together another computer. I
diligently learned about the menu system from fragmentary sources. Some
Bethesda programmer from 2011 in posts said that he could talk about a
limited set of things regarding it(meaning the menu system is DRM-ified).
The menus are in flash format and some are in Scaleform flash format,
which in my opinion is DRM encryption.

I found a decompiler needed to access the content of the flash files.
Unfortunately I had to change my Java setting to run through my browser
to the decompiler in an unsecure way. More on that later

The next problem was that I needed to recompile my art into the files.
So long story short I had to download the Unreal engine to use it to
interact with the scaleform DRM flashform. O, what is this though? I am
told I must have the flash developement tool from adobe to use the
command window that deals with scaleform in Unreal engine. It's "only"
$700, thats all. Then some rep says, "Student edition $100. At that point I
don't care how much student edition is because i am insulted at the web
of DRM and consumerism that is blocking my way from being creative.
That's the "Great Paywall" right there.

So I find a command line tool that requires me to make a batch file. Text
is written in the batch file that directs stuff to file location and there
are flags written in the batch file to configure how it compiles. I am not a
programmer so setting the flags is a matter of trial and error for me.

I sucessfully alter the menu with the command line tool, however the
flags are incorrect so the game crashes on menu open. Still more trial and
error to go. Unbeknownst to me during my isolation the Modpacalypse
had started. Since hearing about paid mods I fell into a deep sadness and
couldn't play Skyrim at all. Also Chinese hackers invaded my computer
through the Java connection used for the decomiler and even boot time
scan wouldn't remove the virus infestaion and I had to remove the hard
drive completely. This is the main reason I missed the Modpocalyse.

Eventually I came down from my mountain of isolation with my half
finished stone tablets as it were of modifications. And from a distance I
saw the modding community making a golden calf or perhaps a gear logo,
it was on the horizen, hard to see. Everyone was going crazy and doing
all manner of wild things and I asked my brother aa..., I mean Dark0ne
(Robin Scott), "I left you to watch over them, why have not you stopped
this?". And he said to me, "They gave me gold and forced me to do it".
At the ignobility of it I threw down the stone tablet of unfinished mods on
the ground and it broke into pieces.

I then try to see the paymods that are up during the end of the
Modpocalypse. I notice they all have cover art like some slick advertising
campaign, that makes me wonder how that could be organized on such
short notice. I see the conversation on Reddit and watch as Gabe dodges
questions about DRM and exclusivity(meaning he plans to enact it if
possible). Also I should mention that the money to the Nexus from the
workshop while in your mind, as well as your lawyers mind as being clear
legally, is not safe in a social context.

The intent of the money is because some people believe that if they give
you money that they have you or you owe them. Its a win-win for the
giver of the money in that if things go sour the community percieves that
you sold out. So its a lose-lose for you to take that money
I believe the distributor involved in this sees you as competition, because
it is trying to make it self the one shop stop for everything (just look at
the Community tab).

That is why they left for the weekend and walked
away. When it was said, "Didn't someone speak to you" that translates
into didn't you get your money, go away. You are British so you may not
see that. There are minor differences in communication style.

This is further demonstrated in the comments of a certain mod author that
took his pay mod down. Someone else's assets were in it and he was in a
non-disclosure agreement with the distributor. The advice he got from the
distributor was to go ahead post the mod up its fair game. So in effect
they encouraged stealing. Then after he did the right thing by requesting it
be taken down, they told him that they wouldn't remove it unless made to
by the law. It was theirs.

Both business insider and Forbes articles were written about how it was
such a bad idea.
Also I noticed LFD2 doesn't have pay mods. something to think about.
I believe it was purposeful to create division in the community.

And so after the stone tablet modifications lay on the ground as shards,
the golden calf was melted down. Everyone was made to drink the melted
down gold. Brum... something, protested and called me a "terrorist", while
he was sitting next to a guy named Toatl, despite the fact I was on the
mountaintop during the entire Modpocalypse. Then my brother Dark0ne
and that Brum guy said, you don't contribute enough and you were on the
mountaintop this whole time, you feel "entitled".

Dark0ne, you have said that it takes $500,000 to run the servers
apparently. Perhaps the community should off load this expensive cost
from you. There are many good programmers in the community that could
make a peer to peer client that could be used by the tens of thousand or
millions of Skyrim or other game players to host the mods in part on
their computers in decentralized parts. This would offload monetary
concerns from you.

You, sir, are brilliant (and a good writer).

[PerfectByNature]

Excellent discussion Dark0ne, Brumbek and TB!

 

To be honest i'm one of the users that was bad at endorsing mods and comment them, however i'm also a supporter of paid mods and though it was canceled way too soon.

 

Even though i don't have a PC at the moment i decided to go through my download history on here and endorse all the mods i loved and used more then a day

[Tyerial12]

In response to post #24929404. #24929819 is also a reply to the same post.

soupdragon1234 wrote:

You had to be a mod user before being a mod author, regardless for what game, right?

 

Nope. There are countless tutorials out there on how to author a mod and failing that they ask fellow authors, whether you happen to reverse engineer someone else's work is irrelevent. Its not a requirement to start modding to use one already. If there was no Nexus or Workshop people would still create them. In fact mod authors are typically secretive about their completed works and hide script source files and if they could lock down the rest I'm pretty sure most would.

 

 

The simple fact is, "leeches" (as you so eloquently put it) ARE important to this community because without "leeches", there would be nobody to become mod authors. Mod authors who don't see that as rampant arrogance are just fooling themselves.

 

 

To reiterate since you seem to be creating a strawman Nexus wouldn't exist without mod authors. Users wouldn't exist without something to download. Without mod authors there is nothing. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

 

Mod authors don't require users, but users absolutely require mod authors they want something other a vanilla game. So yes they are the most important persons other than the owner of the site that allows them to be shared. If you think otherwise you're deluding yourself, which was LP's point.

 

So until you contribute something useful to a community you are a leecher, yes, or as Dark0ne put it, bottom of the pile. Whether you may or may not be offended by the term is really beside the point.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Oh jeeze, not this again.

Mods are not made in a vacuum. I don't know of a single fledgling mod author who woke up one day, snapped their fingers, and a mod was created out of thin air.

The first step in this process is the mod author fires up yet another piece of Bethesda's Intellectual Property--the Creation Kit. What this means is mod authors are using a tool that belong to someone else (they aren't programming it from the ground up in C++ like the authors of some OTHER resources and utilities, but more on that later)

The next step is they need to learn how to mod. This includes but is not limited to dissecting the mods of other people who have came before them. Often times they rely on feedback after a Beta version of the mod is released, and mod users help them troubleshoot and find bugs.

The next step is they want to make the mod something more than a mediocre creation. This can include but is not limited to: borrowing resources from other mods (again, usually perfectly FINE in an "open source" sharing community), "borrowing" images from various sources for retextures (unless the modder themselves is an artist but that is rare), utilizing utilities and resources given for FREE to the community by people who actually DID create this stuff from the ground up (such as ENB, SKSE, FORE etc.), and many other things I don't have time to mention here.

To sum up: Mod authors have not only enjoyed all the free mods themselves that have been given to the community over the years, they have also stood on the backs of all those people in order to make their own creations. The best modders today were the "leeches" yesterday, and tomorrow's up-and-coming modders are the same people you are now calling leeches. The reason for the name calling is many of you don't understand what an "open source" community is.

WRONG users do not require mod authors.. Yes we do like them being here as it spices up our Skyrim but the childish authors we can do without. Skyrim will survive without them so will the modding community. Authors want us to donate/buy there stuff but we are not important and we are leeches. REMEMBER this guys the next time you download mods or buy them in the near future as we are only leeches.

Problem is Mod authors are under attack for wanting to make money which they should be able to but selling mods just to sell them and them abandon them is bad and also mods like to break 1-2 weeks after install so there went the refund.

sad to see a community shot down by greed and people thinking there better than one another this is sad....

There mad at not able to sell so they bash the customers they would of got when paid mods come back.. wise choice..
Also people will steal the work of others and or put them on steam for sale themselfs or upload to torrent sites as a haha hell with paid mods.

So please stop thinking mod authors are the top dogs they are important yes but so is users Edited May 3, 2015 by Tyerial12

[AccessionSoft]

In response to post #24927344.

AccessionSoft wrote: Keep mods free and DLC separate. Here is the solution:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/accessionsoft/820112016?token=93ddc8ac

This company will allow individual mod authors and asset creators to generate income while keeping price tags off of small independently made mods. There will be full support, and no asset stealing tolerated. Skilled individuals can gain immediate income without risk. The free modding community will remain free and larger high quality additions will be generated quickly and frequently. This is the future of professional modding.

Stop fighting amongst yourselves. You are all important parts of the community.