Aliens

[HeyYou]

That is the current debate here, I am saying that a alien culture would not do anything like that to humans.

 

And we are saying how do you know that? For all we know they could come in and farm us as food or use us as slaves. There is no way anyone can make a claim such as that. You are saying out of all of the infinite possibilities you know what will happen.

 

Again with food, how much food will there be after a global nuclear exchange or a large asteroid hits the surface?

There will be no food on that planet, that doesn't mean that other planets or spacecrafts do not have food on them.

 

I already made a ton of posts explaining why aliens would not be violent.

 

1. If a alien race is violent, it means they will be violent to things on their own planet before extending out. This means they will kill themselves and the things on their planet, which clearly reduces the chance of them extending into space.

 

2. Once they have a power source that could let them travel intergalactic distances, they will no longer need a fuel source meaning they will not need to mine resources for energy.

 

3. There are trillions of planets, they would have no positive effects from invading earth and risking their owns lives when they could mine other planets.

 

4. With the technology to be able to travel long distances, it would not be hard to create bases or space stations that orbit planets. You could farm food and store it in stations, or even grow farms in the stations themselves.

 

5. Why would they possibly need slaves? You have a power source that can allow you to travel extremely long distances, and you are going to use mankind as slaves?? It would be much more effective to use machinery and not risk a revolt.

 

Point 1. Not necessarily true. Just because they are violent, does not imply they will automatically kill themselves off. War is the primary driver of technological advance.

 

Point 2. Depends on what their power source is, and if they require some variety of fuel to keep it running, or even something for reaction mass.

 

Point 3. True, there are a boatload of possible planets out there, and we are out on the fringe, so, we are pretty much insulated from any 'bad' things, simply because we ARE an out of the way planet.

 

Point 4. Someone still has to farm that food, keep the installations running, etc. Assuming that it can all be automated cannot be directly inferred from the ability of FTL travel. Maybe if such a race has had space travel for quite some time.... but, for the folks new on the scene, it's unlikely.

 

Point 5. Free labor that doesn't need to be programmed, and can easily be disposed of, if they become inconvenient, are freely available, and are basically infinite in supply, and can indeed be self-maintaining? Why wouldn't you want to use them?

1. They will not kill themselves off, they will kill themselves though. Big difference. That would also mean they would hunt commonly, and contribute to destroying their planet. Much like humans are now.

 

2. It would be physically impossible for any known resource to power a spacecraft that can travel intergalactic distances. Even if such a resource did exist, there are a ton of other planets without life you could get it from.

 

3. An alien race would have no purpose to even come to earth, there are many other planets out there and any system with intelligent life would be able to fight back against them.

 

4. How can a civilization advance to such a high point without a easy supply to food?

 

5. Free labor can also kill you, revolt against you, and steal your stuff.

 

@cgastors if a large astriod hit earth tomorrow, we would likely all be dead, what is your point?

 

I am talking within the range of known science, there COULD be a giant invisible squid monster orbiting Saturn that can travel the speed of light that is waiting to kill us all.

 

1. Or, will they rally around the cry of "common enemy", (I.E. anyone that is NOT "us".)

 

2. Key point there is "Known Resource". We don't currently have FTL travel, have no idea how to make it work, thus, have no information to base a theory on of how it would be powered, or if it would require some variety of "fuel", regardless if it was used for the power source itself, or, as some variety of reaction mass.

 

3. I agree with you there.

 

4. Motivation comes in many forms. Who is to say that the search for food isn't the driving reason for development of interstellar travel?

 

5. True that, however, if they didn't cost you anything in the first place, and the galaxy is full of potential candidates, they are basically 'throw -away" labor. If they cause to many problems, just kill 'em all, and bring in a new crop. Their first job, can be cleaning up the old crop..... great de-motivator for rebellion. :D

[csgators]

there COULD be a giant invisible squid monster orbiting Saturn that can travel the speed of light that is waiting to kill us all.

 

That is the point, you are saying you know these things with certainty and clearly you don't.

[marharth]

there COULD be a giant invisible squid monster orbiting Saturn that can travel the speed of light that is waiting to kill us all.

 

That is the point, you are saying you know these things with certainty and clearly you don't.

I am not saying these things as facts, I am saying that some things are more probable then others.

 

We should work with what we have to discover new things.

[csgators]

there COULD be a giant invisible squid monster orbiting Saturn that can travel the speed of light that is waiting to kill us all.

 

That is the point, you are saying you know these things with certainty and clearly you don't.

I am not saying these things as facts, I am saying that some things are more probable then others.

 

We should work with what we have to discover new things.

 

You are presenting them like you know for sure, read the posts. You do not mention probability, you claim to know.

[marharth]

there COULD be a giant invisible squid monster orbiting Saturn that can travel the speed of light that is waiting to kill us all.

 

That is the point, you are saying you know these things with certainty and clearly you don't.

I am not saying these things as facts, I am saying that some things are more probable then others.

 

We should work with what we have to discover new things.

 

You are presenting them like you know for sure, read the posts. You do not mention probability, you claim to know.

"It is extremely unlikely that a advanced race"

 

"Violent races are much more likely"

 

"that level of technology (which would mean they would require a huge power source.) it is highly unlikely"

 

"There is a good chance that advanced races would have mastered nuclear fusion"

 

"The chances of a violent race evolving drastically decrease over time for obvious reasons."

 

"A violent race is also a lot more likely to kill off their planet"

 

"On top of that it would be nearly impossible for a completely violent race"

 

"The chances of a violent alien race even existing is very low, the chances of one ever coming to earth is pretty much zero. "

 

I can keep going, I clearly refereed to everything as personal interpretation of the probability, not fact.

[HeyYou]

Sure, the odds might be very low, but, consider the sheer number of planets in just our galaxy. Going by statistical probabilities, (which I hate by the way.) It is pretty much assured that some violent race(s) WILL come up with FTL travel. Either by inventing it on their own, or stealing it from someone silly enough to get with-in range of them.

[csgators]

 

Food will not be a issue at all in mankind's near future, let alone advanced races.

 

Genetic engineering will allow for larger animals and crops, in the far future it could very well be possible we replace the need for material food.

 

They won't help us, and if they see us as a threat then they will likely find a way to stop us. We are no where close to being a threat.

 

You also realize that Native Americans took quite a few European lives? Aliens would have no interest is losing anything just to conquer earth, they could go to another planet without intelligent life to work on.

 

I was referring to this post. You know, the one I responded to.

 

and this one where you double down

 

There will be no food on that planet, that doesn't mean that other planets or spacecrafts do not have food on them.

 

I already made a ton of posts explaining why aliens would not be violent.

 

1. If a alien race is violent, it means they will be violent to things on their own planet before extending out. This means they will kill themselves and the things on their planet, which clearly reduces the chance of them extending into space.

 

2. Once they have a power source that could let them travel intergalactic distances, they will no longer need a fuel source meaning they will not need to mine resources for energy.

 

3. There are trillions of planets, they would have no positive effects from invading earth and risking their owns lives when they could mine other planets.

 

4. With the technology to be able to travel long distances, it would not be hard to create bases or space stations that orbit planets. You could farm food and store it in stations, or even grow farms in the stations themselves.

 

5. Why would they possibly need slaves? You have a power source that can allow you to travel extremely long distances, and you are going to use mankind as slaves?? It would be much more effective to use machinery and not risk a revolt.

Edited June 3, 2011 by csgators

[marharth]

 

Food will not be a issue at all in mankind's near future, let alone advanced races.

 

Genetic engineering will allow for larger animals and crops, in the far future it could very well be possible we replace the need for material food.

 

They won't help us, and if they see us as a threat then they will likely find a way to stop us. We are no where close to being a threat.

 

You also realize that Native Americans took quite a few European lives? Aliens would have no interest is losing anything just to conquer earth, they could go to another planet without intelligent life to work on.

 

I was referring to this post. You know, the one I responded to.

 

and this one where you double down

 

There will be no food on that planet, that doesn't mean that other planets or spacecrafts do not have food on them.

 

I already made a ton of posts explaining why aliens would not be violent.

 

1. If a alien race is violent, it means they will be violent to things on their own planet before extending out. This means they will kill themselves and the things on their planet, which clearly reduces the chance of them extending into space.

 

2. Once they have a power source that could let them travel intergalactic distances, they will no longer need a fuel source meaning they will not need to mine resources for energy.

 

3. There are trillions of planets, they would have no positive effects from invading earth and risking their owns lives when they could mine other planets.

 

4. With the technology to be able to travel long distances, it would not be hard to create bases or space stations that orbit planets. You could farm food and store it in stations, or even grow farms in the stations themselves.

 

5. Why would they possibly need slaves? You have a power source that can allow you to travel extremely long distances, and you are going to use mankind as slaves?? It would be much more effective to use machinery and not risk a revolt.

1. If a race is violent, that would mean they would be violent on their own planet before expanding out, how is that not true?

 

2. The only known power source for FTL travel would be fusion power, which requires no fuel source.

 

3. This is also true.

 

4. If you can travel faster then light, you can transport materials faster then light.

 

5. If you have a extremely good power source, you can power machinery easily, whats wrong about that?

 

As I said before I am talking within the known range of science. That is how our model works, so that's what I am doing.

[MrDoctorDD]

...and I thought I was messed up, you guys have stipulations for everything.

[marharth]

...and I thought I was messed up, you guys have stipulations for everything.

How so?