Aliens

[JimboUK]

 

 

Your forgetting the part about moving it over a mile distance, and how they were able to do the mathematics. If they had such advanced knowledge of mathematics they should of been able to build better machines then rope and stone.

 

 

 

Moving it is simple, you use logs as rollers.

[RZ1029]

Read the post above yours, it explains how a pulley system with rope and stone would not work.

Uhm... I'm not seeing it, if it's there.

 

Log rollers which could have actually been used like wheels, because they had Chariots at the time. I'm sure an engineer would be smart enough to think to apply the same technology to building the pyramids. Then all you would need to do is push the stone. And since you've just massively reduced the amount of friction, pushing it suddenly becomes much easier. Using the sheer number of slaves they (reportedly) had, it could probably be done fairly easily. I'd hesitate to guess how long it takes to push a massive stone on wheels because I've never been there, but I could see a dozen or two people (who have worked almost their entire lives and would probably be fairly strong) being able to move it with little trouble to the pyramid.

 

Then at that point, I'm leaning towards Bben's information that was suggested by the engineer, though I'm also convinced that the rope and pulley system I read about is doable, and has been used in at least one pyramid.

[bben46]

I have actually seen at least a dozen theories on how the pyramids were built. I picked the lever and cribbing example as the most plausible I have seen. Most of the workforce would have been dedicated to forming the blocks, not moving them. Each block would have to be cut to a certain size then finished (rough edges knocked off, misshapen sections leveled out etc).

 

I discounted the long ramp theories as impractical as they would have been pushing a huge block up a steep ramp. And a ramp that big would take as long to build and use as much material as the pyramid itself.

 

I discounted the spiral ramp as there is no evidence of one - all of the known surfaces are flat with no incline - and shoving giant blocks around the corners would have mangled the near perfect corners of the pyramid.

 

Ropes and pullys? It would take very large pulleys to withstand the weight, and very large ropes. Possibly multiple pulleys and ropes? There would be evidence of blocks breaking and falling - with that many to move there would have been at least some leaving massive scars and a big hole where then finally landed - But still possible.

 

Another theory is that the blocks are really an early form of concrete and were poured in place - possible, but I don't think very likely - besides, the Mayan pyramids are made of raw rock and definitely not concrete. Similar construction though.

 

As to the time - 50 minutes to move a single block from the quarry to the site sounds a bit short to me. But they were not moving one at a time - there were multiple lines of blocks moving at the same time - possibly over a hundred blocks on the way from the quarry to where they eventually were set. Teams of skilled workmen did this, not slaves. Using this system, they could place a stone every few minutes on the average. The ancient Egyptians didn't keep an 8 hour work day, they likely worked from just after daylight until nearly dark seven days a week. With time off for religious festivals, time off to go home to help with harvest and maybe a drunken revelry on Pharaohs birthday. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink004.gif

[ginnyfizz]

That's very true, bben46. The archaeological evidence suggests that once their work was done for the night, they sure liked a party and threw major strops if they didn't get their own way. Like trade unionists today their representatives were prone to hyperbole. I found the quote from the stele that I mentioned earlier in a book on Egyptology by Mme Christiane Desroches-Noblecourt

 

"We are weak and starving because we have not received the rations that Pharaoh hath ordained" and they promptly went on strike. The clerk of works was exasperated because it was more of a case of they felt entitled to more party time, as starving they were certainly not, but he had to cave in.

 

The point this proves is that building of pyramids and the later royal necropolis at Western Thebes, was, as bben46 said, on a truly epic industrial scale, with a highly organized, if occasionally militant, workforce. And thus it is no mystery how they managed to accomplish what they did, although no doubt they suffered from a fair amount of "morning after" syndrome.

[MadMike710]

Well I guess we'll never know how they really did it.

And one more thing I forgot to mention in the original post is the (13) crystal skulls. Which you've probably all heard of.

They were apparently made by aliens and were of great religious value to the Aztec's(?).

They were made of clear quartz crystal which can hold thousands of gigabytes of data or something to that effect. (Why aren't we using these?!)

Now I don't know if the Aztec's could have made them. The skulls are supposedly the key to something.

 

What is your opinions on this?

 

It's been interesting seeing the replies on the pyramids and stonehenge.

(Wow, there's a lot of religion associated with aliens (which I can not speak of ^^)).

[marharth]

OK using what bben said then...

 

Now since they wouldn't be working non stop like I said at first, ill cut the time in took half (12 hours a day for 20 years, not 24 hours a day for 20 years)

 

I am not debating about if the workers could of done it in terms of lifting and moving, I am talking about HOW FAST they could of done it. That's what matters. Mainstream archaeology said it was built in 20 years. I am also not saying that aliens did it, I am saying that the Egyptians somehow had some kind of technology to do it.

 

So, using what bben said...

 

100,000 men worked on the pyramid at once. It took 5,256,000 minutes to complete. 2.3 million stones are in the pyramid.

 

So using what bben said, cutting out such a massive stone would take at least 5 minutes. 5 times 2.3 million = 11,500,000.

THAT IS ALREADY OVER THE TIME LIMIT... But if you wish ill keep going.

 

Lets say the workers were somehow able to cut out blocks weighting over a ton in 30 seconds. I think everyone can agree no one could possibly cut out a massive stone in 30 seconds. That would be 0.50 (half of a minute 30/60) times 2.3 million is 1,150,000. That's about 1/5 of the time.

 

Now that the stones are already there, workers can start getting them. Once again saying they were going at 3 mph (which would be close to impossible). They would be bring one stone every 20 minutes. Ill say a few minutes is 3. So 23 minutes to bring a single block and place it. 23 minutes per block is 52,900,000 minutes.

 

That's a total of 64,400,000 minutes total with a realistic time (around 122 years with a few months months, longer then any pharaohs rule or life, Ramesses II being the longest rule at 66 years. Not even close to Khufu's rule which was around 23 years.). And 54,050,000 minutes total with the completely unrealistic fast time, which is still way past 20 years. (would be around 102 years with a few months, longer then any pharaohs rule or life, not even close to Khufu's rule or life.)

[Sinophile]

The thing about aliens visiting the earth is that the most outrageous theories are not always the most likely. It would be fun to imagine that aliens have interacted with our civilization, but how likely is it?

 

I am surprised that no one has brought up that the same pyramids have been found in what is now Mexico in almost the exact same formation(yet someone brought up the Crystal skulls). Is there something in the human brain that makes us say,"hey, know what? it'd be awesome if we built giant pyramids to match the shiny things up there!".

Another point that no one has brought up is that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. If a football field represented the age of the earth, the time Humans have inhabited it would be less than two inches. Civilization is at most 10,000 years old. Thus, if an alien home world was only one thousandth of a percent older than ours, they could still be millions of years ahead of us!

For my third point, Atlantis. Several Native American mythologies, as well as the bible, talk of a great flood, and giants roaming the earth(the Nephilim). Is it pure coincidence that so many mythologies have so many similarities?

Another thing that boggles me is this,

 

Truthfully, though, I can't see any reason for an alien to want to be here.

For the lulz, why else? I heard that in Space college, there is this one fraternity that says you have to mutilate a cow in order to gain membership. The aliens who visit earth could be bored college kids, or even preschool children. Who hasn't smashed an insect of killed a snail just for fun?

[bben46]

Using your numbers

100,000 men worked on the pyramid at once. It took 5,256,000 minutes to complete.

 

Divide 5,256,000 by the number of men 100,000 gives each man worked a whopping 52 minutes - that's some powerful union.

 

I think you have fallen into the fallacy of more men doing the same task to speed things up. Instead, you divide the work. Instead of one crew of 100,000 you take 1000 crews of 100 all working at the same time but on different tasks - some would be cutting, some moving and some placing. The first five to ten years would have been dedicated to planning and cutting stone with no stones being placed, and no movers or placers being employed yet. Although quite a bit of prep work would be accomplished. Actually 100 on a team would be too many for most tasks with most teams being around 25 for the actual moving, and probably less to lift and place stones. Most of the workers would be support - somebody has to feed them and transport the food and other supplies.

 

This is all my own wild guess as to how it would be done.

 

The quarry, 2500 men in 125 20 man teams each team producing three stones a day . This gives us 375 stones a day or (assuming 300 working days a year) 112,500 a year Which matches up well with the goal of producing 1,300,000 stones in 10 years - You actually get 1,125,000 so it would take about 11 years to quarry the stones. Adjust the number of crews or number of stones per day for how many years are needed - but you will have to have all stones at the site with at least a year to spare for finish work.

 

When they started moving stones after the first 5 years or so, the quarrymen would still be producing stones at the same rate, but this would be at at a rate less than they are being hauled off.

 

We now have about 300 crews moving stone from the quarry to the base of the construction site. Each team is somewhere between 25 and 150 depending on how you have them moving the stones. Say It takes 6 hours to move each stone from quarry to site. so each crew moves around 2 stones per working day. 600 stones arriving at the site per day. (This is the only job I would trust slaves with). I have never seen any trace of the drag marks moving over a million huge stones would create, even if they were rolled on logs. So I assume they built something to make it easier to move them - A primitive railroad? A raised road that was worn down and rebuilt as they went?

 

Then another 300 crews of 20 to 40 lifting the stones from one level to another, then when they reach the proper level, they leave the stone for the placement crews, another 300 crews. The base work would be done in about 15 years, leaving 5 for finish work - the cover stones (most are missing now ) would take longer to set and fit properly. Then there was the interior work - which would have begun long before the rock pile was done - possibly while those painted passageways were still exposed to the sun. Done in 20 years! Still a huge undertaking My hat is off to those men who did this. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink004.gif

[marharth]

Using your numbers

100,000 men worked on the pyramid at once. It took 5,256,000 minutes to complete.

 

Divide 5,256,000 by the number of men 100,000 gives each man worked a whopping 52 minutes - that's some powerful union.

 

I think you have fallen into the fallacy of more men doing the same task to speed things up. Instead, you divide the work. Instead of one crew of 100,000 you take 1000 crews of 100 all working at the same time but on different tasks - some would be cutting, some moving and some placing. The first five to ten years would have been dedicated to planning and cutting stone with no stones being placed, and no movers or placers being employed yet. Although quite a bit of prep work would be accomplished. Actually 100 on a team would be too many for most tasks with most teams being around 25 for the actual moving, and probably less to lift and place stones. Most of the workers would be support - somebody has to feed them and transport the food and other supplies.

 

This is all my own wild guess as to how it would be done.

 

The quarry, 2500 men in 125 20 man teams each team producing three stones a day . This gives us 375 stones a day or (assuming 300 working days a year) 112,500 a year Which matches up well with the goal of producing 1,300,000 stones in 10 years - You actually get 1,125,000 so it would take about 11 years to quarry the stones. Adjust the number of crews or number of stones per day for how many years are needed - but you will have to have all stones at the site with at least a year to spare for finish work.

 

When they started moving stones after the first 5 years or so, the quarrymen would still be producing stones at the same rate, but this would be at at a rate less than they are being hauled off.

 

We now have about 300 crews moving stone from the quarry to the base of the construction site. Each team is somewhere between 25 and 150 depending on how you have them moving the stones. Say It takes 6 hours to move each stone from quarry to site. so each crew moves around 2 stones per working day. 600 stones arriving at the site per day. (This is the only job I would trust slaves with). I have never seen any trace of the drag marks moving over a million huge stones would create, even if they were rolled on logs. So I assume they built something to make it easier to move them - A primitive railroad? A raised road that was worn down and rebuilt as they went?

 

Then another 300 crews of 20 to 40 lifting the stones from one level to another, then when they reach the proper level, they leave the stone for the placement crews, another 300 crews. The base work would be done in about 15 years, leaving 5 for finish work - the cover stones (most are missing now ) would take longer to set and fit properly. Then there was the interior work - which would have begun long before the rock pile was done - possibly while those painted passageways were still exposed to the sun. Done in 20 years! Still a huge undertaking My hat is off to those men who did this. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink004.gif

 

Your saying that the cut and moved the stones in 15 years, and laid the stones in only 5 years???

 

It wasn't as simple as just stacking them, there is a complex tunnel system in the pyramid and actually building it should take much longer then 5 years.

 

Planning would have taken at least a year, and that's not even included in the time.

 

 

By saying they built a railroad is kind of agreeing with me.

 

I am not saying anything about aliens, I am simply saying that the mainstream idea is wrong. I think they used some sort of fairly advanced system to do it, not just ropes and logs.

 

The mathematics they used to build it are extremely advanced.

 

Since we can't talk about religion I can't bring up a majority of the proof of alien visits.

[Balagor]

@marharth

Ever heard of "manhours" or "mandays". It is used to make raw calculations for for future planning or rationalization.

It is simple, but also rather rough.

You have one laboure for 1 day for 12 hours, we call that 1 Labourday

You now have 2 laboures for 1 day for 12 hours. Now you have 2 Labourdays

 

That you forget in you calculation when you only take the minuttes available in 20 years, and divide them by the 2.3 million stones.

You still have the 100.000 laboures, so you have to multipli your result by 100.000. You will then rich a result close to @bben´s, though he has a theory about didiving the teams.

I support that theory too, since 100.000 men would never do the same, that would be caos.

 

With my calculation, you have 24.000.000 labourdays divided by 2.300.000 stones= roughly 10 days per stone