F4 Mod question: Difficult with main character now talking?

[llamaRCA]

 

 

Having to sit there and read takes away from the 'game' aspect of playing a video game. Anyone who truly cares about game play would want to have voiced characters so they don't have to be pulled away from the flow of the game to stop and read a bunch of choices before picking what their character will say.

 

The people who want to sit there and read 3 or 4 full dialogue options before making each decision are the ones who truly care more about the media content than the game content.

 

Mass Effect 3 - 2 seconds to make a choice and move on with the game.

Fallout New Vegas - 10 seconds to make a choice and move on with the game.

 

Over the course of the whole game, that is a huge difference sitting there in the dialogue screen reading as opposed to playing.

 

 

Mass Effect 2 was such a beautiful game because of the flow and the balance between game and story, it never felt like there was too much of one or the other.

 

Beth games aren't Bioware games.

 

One of the great weaknesses in game development, imo, is the belief that if someone else has built something that is successful, and your game doesn't have that thing, then your game will fail.

 

This eagerness to copy existing game play stifles original/innovative content creation. Instead of going in a new direction to flesh out what a Beth game truly is, they have decided to copy what Bioware does. The more they do this kind of thing the less they fill their own space in the market. I'm skeptical that these changes will make a better Beth game, but instead we may end up with an inferior version of a Bioware game.

 

I don't like Bioware games. Bioware games are well written and are excellent games, but I prefer to play a Beth game in a Beth gameworld. If I want a Bioware game that's what I'll play. Beth could have done any number of things to improve their storytelling, but instead of going in a direction that looks like a Beth game they took the safe, boring, Bioware route to solve their problem.

 

 

There is nothing wrong with being inspired by something you really like that another person or company did before you. That is how all advances are made.

 

"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." -Sir Isaac Newton

 

When someone makes something that is truly great, you take that inspiration and make it a part of what you do. That doesn't make you any less of an individual, it makes each and every person who learns from that a better artist.

 

 

I'm not talking about inspiration. Inspiration in this case would be Beth realizing that Bioware (or Obsidian) does a superior job at storytelling and they'd like to do that too because richer storytelling would improve their own games.

 

At that point they had a choice. Do they go with the method Bioware uses to tell a more directed story or do they come up with another way to do it that stays true to Beth games (again Obsidian did it already in NV within a Beth-lite gameworld).

 

It looks like they chose doing what Bioware does.

 

imo, going with the Bioware style potentially compromises what makes Beth games great. Coming up with something new and innovative would have been better. Beth doesn't make games equivalent to Bioware games nor do they need to go in that direction to make their players happy. Skyrim, one of the least interesting games they've made, has been wildly successful. They could have done pretty much anything new that they wanted to and they were guaranteed a big audience. But, instead of doing something that complements the type of games they make, enriching their complicated and wonderful open worlds with ways to expand storytelling within that environment, it looks like they might be trying to be Bioware lite.

 

Can't wait to get the game to see how it plays. Hopefully it's a regular Beth game with Bioware dialogue plopped on top. I won't like a talking player character, as it goes against everything a Beth game has always been, but if the gameplay is as fun as Beth games usually are and the gameworld is as epic, it should be okay. I predict that one of the first mods released will be to remove the PC voice and that it will be a very successful mod.

[Tony the Wookie]

From what I have seen, this game is going to be NOTHING like what makes Mass Effect what it is. It is pretty obvious that Bethesda isn't trying to be Bioware just from looking at the emphasis on being able to collect literally EVERYTHING in the world to put to use in custom weapons and creating custom settlements.

 

The settlements alone shows that this is a game about mass customization and infinite possibilities and not anything like Mass Effect, which is a beautifully done 20 hour storytelling experience with very limited customization.

 

Bethesda is just finally ready to step away from Fallout being TES with guns and make it something truly new, a totally different type of storytelling then you or I have ever seen before. It isn't a copy of Oblivion, and it isn't a copy of Mass Effect...

 

 

 

 

It is customized non plot based build anything and try to make it thrive gameplay like you would expect from games like The Sims of Civilization, but with the open world exploration and gathering and quests that is actually what Bethesda does best.

 

They haven't taken a step toward Bioware or TES, but they have stepped out of the line completely and are on a totally new track.

 

It is now less about customizing a character who goes out and discovers who he/she is in this vast wasteland, but it is more about what you can create. Less about what IS and more about what CAN BE.

 

 

 

The worst thing about 'do anything build em up sandbox games' is that there isn't anything to do with the vast towns or empires you build once you make them amazing.

 

The worst thing about Bethesda games is that they keep human interaction so broad to fit so many different kinds of possible player characters, that you just get the bland least common denominator of what fits everything.

 

By adding in this one single element of Mass Effect like style you are bringing in more of a human element to the exploration of the world, interactions with all the interesting characters, and building of this new customized creation that is YOUR Fallout 4 world that looks nothing like MY Fallout 4 world.

 

 

 

 

From my perspective, the player character is the most boring element in ANY video game. A video game should be more like reading The Hobbit and not Bram Stoker's Dracula, it is about exploring the vast world of experiences and not a character drama. (those happen to be my favorite two books growing up, so I'm not discrediting either style)

 

By nailing down certain elements of Commander Sheppard, Bioware let characters like Wrex and Tali and Captain Anderson really come alive by having an actual set point to banter with as opposed to writing while aiming at a moving target.

 

I am willing to sacrifice character customization to make the world around me more dynamic and customizable. I want the player to be the set point, the common ground that all the other customization revolves around.

 

 

 

 

This is not Bethesda stepping away from what they do best, because character dialogue was never what they did best. This is Bethesda taking their weak point and nailing that down so that all the stuff they actually do best such as customization and open world exploration and multiple ways of surviving in this world can truly shine to their fullest potential.

 

I only came back to modding because of how excited I am for this game. I love Mass Effect, I would love to work for Bioware because they inspire me more than anyone, but this game will be nothing like Mass Effect except for having the same whipped cream on top. One game is a chocolate milkshake with whipped cream on top while the other game is a cherry pie with whipped cream on top.

[xENJAJVEx]

There is always the possibility that the player voice can be switched off in the settings.

I don't think him talking is going to bother me but we'll see. Like so many say, it may break immersion.

 

 

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You know this would be the ideal situation.

 

At least give the player some options. Surely they must have known in the beginning how many fans would become upset over this (well, it doesn't seem we're in the majority though, if I'm honest)

but still they went ahead and gave us a voiced PC. It's a massive change and it's something new - it could work and it'll be fairly interesting to see how it does but really, the option to toggle voiced

PC on/off would be the best way. Honestly, that's probably the only thing that bothers me personally. Everything else looks to be pure gold. :smile: Especially the building of your very own settlement(s).

[Tony the Wookie]

 

There is always the possibility that the player voice can be switched off in the settings.

I don't think him talking is going to bother me but we'll see. Like so many say, it may break immersion.

 

 

Love video games? Click Here!

 

 

You know this would be the ideal situation.

 

At least give the player some options. Surely they must have known in the beginning how many fans would become upset over this (well, it doesn't seem we're in the majority though, if I'm honest)

but still they went ahead and gave us a voiced PC. It's a massive change and it's something new - it could work and it'll be fairly interesting to see how it does but really, the option to toggle voiced

PC on/off would be the best way. Honestly, that's probably the only thing that bothers me personally. Everything else looks to be pure gold. :smile: Especially the building of your very own settlement(s).

 

 

Of course they will have to have an option with text instead of spoken dialogue because the game has to be able to be played and enjoyed by the hearing impaired. I only agree with you because I don't believe in discriminating against those with disabilities.

 

I strongly disagree with any opposition to a voiced player character. Change is good and as a modder it excites me. I can't wait to show all the possibilities I can do with voice actors bantering back and forth as opposed to sitting there and being talked at by an npc. I am very much enjoying doing the writing and voice acting for conversations with a voiced player and 2 npcs at a time and hearing it all come together. I can't wait to get Fallout 4 and the GECK and share my work with all of you.

 

The complainers are not the majority, it is just complainers have a louder voice. But while you complain and worry, I will be busy working on something truly amazing with this new breakthrough.

 

 

I am going to make a mod that you will enjoy, whether you agree with Bethesda's decision or not.

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

I strongly disagree with any opposition to a voiced player character. Change is good and as a modder it excites me. I can't wait to show all the possibilities I can do with voice actors bantering back and forth as opposed to sitting there and being talked at by an npc. I am very much enjoying doing the writing and voice acting for conversations with a voiced player and 2 npcs at a time and hearing it all come together. I can't wait to get Fallout 4 and the GECK and share my work with all of you.

if a group of modders and voice actors got together and voiced both parties in the game that'd be cool and i would support it. oh and sorry bout not getting back to you on the dialog thing, things came up and i had to drop it... and i just noticed my message to you didnt get sent... my bad.

 

 

 

I am going to make a mod that you will enjoy, whether you agree with Bethesda's decision or not.

i will hold you to this.

[llamaRCA]

 

 

 

Would a non-speaking character in a mod be so bad?

considering the number of people who are constantly available to voice act... kinda yes, kinda no. honestly the first mod i hope someone makes is one that removes all the PC dialog. i dont want my character to talk in the Fallout game franchise, i'd play Mass Effect instead. though that's a personal thing and in no way means i think what voice acting i have seen so far is bad.

 

 

You have to join the future sometime.

 

Were you feel the same way when things switched over from sprite based games to 3d rendered games?

 

 

Talking protagonists aren't "the future." ME has a talking protagonist because it's a much more controlled experience. Beth has traditionally given us games (TES and FO3) that allow us to do/be/etc whatever we want. Voicing the protagonist seriously inhibits that playstyle. If one doesn't value that playstyle because one prefers ME then that player probably sees adding a voice to the protagonist as an improvement. For those of us that have always enjoyed Beth's unique game offering, and the freedom it offers to the player, then adding the voice is the end of an era of choice and control.

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

Talking protagonists aren't "the future." ME has a talking protagonist because it's a much more controlled experience. Beth has traditionally given us games (TES and FO3) that allow us to do/be/etc whatever we want. Voicing the protagonist seriously inhibits that playstyle. If one doesn't value that playstyle because one prefers ME then that player probably sees adding a voice to the protagonist as an improvement. For those of us that have always enjoyed Beth's unique game offering, and the freedom it offers to the player, then adding the voice is the end of an era of choice and control.

i agree, like how Command and Conquer stepped away from individual units to squad mechanics in the later games (the ones made by EA and ruined the franchise) it's not what the fans wanted and not a positive game mechanic for everyone. if you look at Age of Empires III you can see where they went for a squad mechanics type method but retained the individual units... the games flaws lay in other areas, freakin villagers auto collecting BS.

 

there is a reason to be concerned when a feature that has come to be expected from a franchise suddenly changes to match the main stream. it could very well be a step in the right direction but it also could be a franchise buster.

[Tony the Wookie]

Bethesda's Fallout games have never given you much control over the character to begin with when it comes to the story, Fallout 3 and New Vega did not have any more 'do whatever you want with your player character' than Mass Effect 2 or 3.

 

You still have to follow the same story arch, you just get to choose whether you want to be a jerk about it or a goody goody. It isn't like Fallout 3 let you play as a Super Mutant, or an old person, or anything other than a young vault dweller who is searching for his or her father. It is a very small range, no different than Mass Effect minus you character having a name... Just one is a Commander and one is a Vault Dweller, but they are both very controlled.

 

Customization of the CHARACTER and control over the CHARACTER is not what Bethesda specializes in anymore than J.R.R. Tolkien specialized in writing character dramas.

 

 

 

 

Fallout is about the ENVIRONMENT, it is separated from an experience like Mass Effect because of the effect the player can have on the WORLD AROUND THEM, not by what they can do with the CHARACTER.

 

And when it comes to the world and being able to change ANYTHING and collect ANYTHING and build ANYTHING you want, Fallout 4 looks like it is going even MORE in the direction of giving the player freedom and a sandbox to play with.

 

As long a Bethesda keeps focusing on the real reason their games are great, which is exploring and changing and playing with an interesting world, I am not going to worry about them trying something new with their weakest area.

 

 

 

Now, if you are telling me that Fallout 3 was great because of how well the dialogue was written, then I guess my argument is void to you. But for the other 99% of people who think that Bethesda is below average at writing dialogue and they chose to play their games for other reasons, who cares if they change things up with the player? That isn't why I play the game, so even if the RUIN it, it doesn't matter as long as I can explore.

[JimboUK]

The voiced protagonist in Mass Effect worked because Bioware can write to a decent standard, Bethesda cannot so you're going to have to listen to your character talk like one of Bethesda's mentally ill NPCs. As things are now you can at least pretend to be a normal person in a world full of one dimensional oddballs, add a voice and you could well end up roleplaying as one.

[xENJAJVEx]

 

The voiced protagonist in Mass Effect worked because Bioware can write to a decent standard, Bethesda cannot so you're going to have to listen to your character talk like one of Bethesda's mentally ill NPCs. As things are now you can at least pretend to be a normal person in a world full of one dimensional oddballs, add a voice and you could well end up roleplaying as one.

 

 

+1

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would a non-speaking character in a mod be so bad?

considering the number of people who are constantly available to voice act... kinda yes, kinda no. honestly the first mod i hope someone makes is one that removes all the PC dialog. i dont want my character to talk in the Fallout game franchise, i'd play Mass Effect instead. though that's a personal thing and in no way means i think what voice acting i have seen so far is bad.

 

 

You have to join the future sometime.

 

Were you feel the same way when things switched over from sprite based games to 3d rendered games?

 

 

Talking protagonists aren't "the future." ME has a talking protagonist because it's a much more controlled experience. Beth has traditionally given us games (TES and FO3) that allow us to do/be/etc whatever we want. Voicing the protagonist seriously inhibits that playstyle. If one doesn't value that playstyle because one prefers ME then that player probably sees adding a voice to the protagonist as an improvement. For those of us that have always enjoyed Beth's unique game offering, and the freedom it offers to the player, then adding the voice is the end of an era of choice and control.

 

 

+1

Edited September 7, 2015 by xENJAJVEx