Survey Responses!

[Kimimarox]

In response to post #27772820. #27773245, #27785260, #27787150, #27827605, #27828245, #27828875, #27833980 are all replies on the same post.

Comix777 wrote: It was pretty obvious that women are a tiny minority. Despite this whole lie that "45% of gamers are female", men are, and always were, a large majority of gamers. It's as simple as that.

westsidekidd wrote: And from where do you have this information?
I am 42 years old. When I started to play Computer games when I was 14 years old, no girl was ever interested in playing Computer games, at least not many, but this has absolutely changed and there will be a lot more in the future. Thanks to games which have a story, like Dragon Age and Mass Effect and also Skyrim and Fallout.
Go look on deviantart, how many female Mass Effect and Dragon Age fans there are, for example. To me it seems there are a lot more than male fans.
So in my opinion it could really be that half of the gamers these days ARE in fact females.

xenoforge78 wrote: None of that really related to what he said, apart from your opinion on whether it's true or not. Obviously here it's a vast majority, and I highly doubt it will ever rise; it doesn't need to. The whole stat of half of gamers are women is pretty much rubbish.

westsidekidd wrote: None of that? My whole comment is about what he said.

EspadaDeHelado wrote: Yeah, this isn't exactly that relevant to the survey at all, but yes there is a low percentage of woman gamers/gaming enthusiasts (the people who would use mods and a mod hub). The numbers from studies are used disingenuously. It is roughly a half and half split for "people who play games" because of handheld and mobile games, but women tend to play more causal games on average either through their phones or through social media websites like Facebook rather than the heavier games that mainline gaming technology and culture is engrossed in. That's what skews the graph in that area, and then even in heavier games you still have splits in preference between genres. https://i.imgur.com/QwjTwT2.jpg

toadlet wrote: I disagree with your comment, Comix777. You cannot use the nexus survey to prove or disprove how many male or female gamers there actually are. I know many people who are very anti-modding regarding their own gaming, so therefore these people are probably not even be signed up to nexus, let alone answering this survey, regardless of sex. All you can take away from this survey is that there are more male users of nexus than female (who bothered to do the survey).

westsidekidd wrote: @toadlet
And this survey wasn't even really representative. There are a lot of users (male and female), who didn't even knew that there was this survey or they simply didn't answered it, but fact is, that there are a lot more female gamers out there than some people think.

Reaper0021 wrote: I'm 44 been gaming since 1977. Used to be a 'Man's' only land (boys if you like). Now, in games like Skyrim, Fallout, Mass Effect, World of Warcraft, Counterstrike: Global Offensive (that's right a FPS game) and many many others....I meet and see women gamer's all the time (my daughter, 23 and a new mother has been a gamer since age 5). This hobby as become all inclusive and more and more diverse over the years. I, for one, and happy as hell women play these games with us as it has helped to destroy the myth that only 'kids and little boy's' play video games. I even get my butt stomped regularly in 'StarCraft II' by women and to me....it's oddly refreshing.

Well, there is cetrainly more male players of games like Skyrim.

It's when you take all games, including casual ones, you get a score closer to half.

Women tend to play different games, and before anyone gets mad or something, tihs doesn't mean that casual gamers are inferior. Casual gaming is quickly becoming the biggest right now. Walking simulators/handheld games etc. are becoming more and more popular.

[Deleted14677234User]

In response to post #27772820. #27773245, #27785260, #27787150, #27827605, #27828245, #27828875, #27833980, #27837490 are all replies on the same post.

Comix777 wrote: It was pretty obvious that women are a tiny minority. Despite this whole lie that "45% of gamers are female", men are, and always were, a large majority of gamers. It's as simple as that.

westsidekidd wrote: And from where do you have this information?
I am 42 years old. When I started to play Computer games when I was 14 years old, no girl was ever interested in playing Computer games, at least not many, but this has absolutely changed and there will be a lot more in the future. Thanks to games which have a story, like Dragon Age and Mass Effect and also Skyrim and Fallout.
Go look on deviantart, how many female Mass Effect and Dragon Age fans there are, for example. To me it seems there are a lot more than male fans.
So in my opinion it could really be that half of the gamers these days ARE in fact females.

xenoforge78 wrote: None of that really related to what he said, apart from your opinion on whether it's true or not. Obviously here it's a vast majority, and I highly doubt it will ever rise; it doesn't need to. The whole stat of half of gamers are women is pretty much rubbish.

westsidekidd wrote: None of that? My whole comment is about what he said.

EspadaDeHelado wrote: Yeah, this isn't exactly that relevant to the survey at all, but yes there is a low percentage of woman gamers/gaming enthusiasts (the people who would use mods and a mod hub). The numbers from studies are used disingenuously. It is roughly a half and half split for "people who play games" because of handheld and mobile games, but women tend to play more causal games on average either through their phones or through social media websites like Facebook rather than the heavier games that mainline gaming technology and culture is engrossed in. That's what skews the graph in that area, and then even in heavier games you still have splits in preference between genres. https://i.imgur.com/QwjTwT2.jpg

toadlet wrote: I disagree with your comment, Comix777. You cannot use the nexus survey to prove or disprove how many male or female gamers there actually are. I know many people who are very anti-modding regarding their own gaming, so therefore these people are probably not even be signed up to nexus, let alone answering this survey, regardless of sex. All you can take away from this survey is that there are more male users of nexus than female (who bothered to do the survey).

westsidekidd wrote: @toadlet
And this survey wasn't even really representative. There are a lot of users (male and female), who didn't even knew that there was this survey or they simply didn't answered it, but fact is, that there are a lot more female gamers out there than some people think.

Reaper0021 wrote: I'm 44 been gaming since 1977. Used to be a 'Man's' only land (boys if you like). Now, in games like Skyrim, Fallout, Mass Effect, World of Warcraft, Counterstrike: Global Offensive (that's right a FPS game) and many many others....I meet and see women gamer's all the time (my daughter, 23 and a new mother has been a gamer since age 5). This hobby as become all inclusive and more and more diverse over the years. I, for one, and happy as hell women play these games with us as it has helped to destroy the myth that only 'kids and little boy's' play video games. I even get my butt stomped regularly in 'StarCraft II' by women and to me....it's oddly refreshing.

Kimimarox wrote: Well, there is cetrainly more male players of games like Skyrim.

It's when you take all games, including casual ones, you get a score closer to half.

Women tend to play different games, and before anyone gets mad or something, tihs doesn't mean that casual gamers are inferior. Casual gaming is quickly becoming the biggest right now. Walking simulators/handheld games etc. are becoming more and more popular.

regardless of what you openion is i do wish their were female players this just says to me a lot of girls are missing out on some pretty fun experiances

[Hilda1007]

In response to post #27772820. #27773245, #27785260, #27787150, #27827605, #27828245, #27828875, #27833980, #27837490, #27840175 are all replies on the same post.

Comix777 wrote: It was pretty obvious that women are a tiny minority. Despite this whole lie that "45% of gamers are female", men are, and always were, a large majority of gamers. It's as simple as that.

westsidekidd wrote: And from where do you have this information?
I am 42 years old. When I started to play Computer games when I was 14 years old, no girl was ever interested in playing Computer games, at least not many, but this has absolutely changed and there will be a lot more in the future. Thanks to games which have a story, like Dragon Age and Mass Effect and also Skyrim and Fallout.
Go look on deviantart, how many female Mass Effect and Dragon Age fans there are, for example. To me it seems there are a lot more than male fans.
So in my opinion it could really be that half of the gamers these days ARE in fact females.

xenoforge78 wrote: None of that really related to what he said, apart from your opinion on whether it's true or not. Obviously here it's a vast majority, and I highly doubt it will ever rise; it doesn't need to. The whole stat of half of gamers are women is pretty much rubbish.

westsidekidd wrote: None of that? My whole comment is about what he said.

EspadaDeHelado wrote: Yeah, this isn't exactly that relevant to the survey at all, but yes there is a low percentage of woman gamers/gaming enthusiasts (the people who would use mods and a mod hub). The numbers from studies are used disingenuously. It is roughly a half and half split for "people who play games" because of handheld and mobile games, but women tend to play more causal games on average either through their phones or through social media websites like Facebook rather than the heavier games that mainline gaming technology and culture is engrossed in. That's what skews the graph in that area, and then even in heavier games you still have splits in preference between genres. https://i.imgur.com/QwjTwT2.jpg

toadlet wrote: I disagree with your comment, Comix777. You cannot use the nexus survey to prove or disprove how many male or female gamers there actually are. I know many people who are very anti-modding regarding their own gaming, so therefore these people are probably not even be signed up to nexus, let alone answering this survey, regardless of sex. All you can take away from this survey is that there are more male users of nexus than female (who bothered to do the survey).

westsidekidd wrote: @toadlet
And this survey wasn't even really representative. There are a lot of users (male and female), who didn't even knew that there was this survey or they simply didn't answered it, but fact is, that there are a lot more female gamers out there than some people think.

Reaper0021 wrote: I'm 44 been gaming since 1977. Used to be a 'Man's' only land (boys if you like). Now, in games like Skyrim, Fallout, Mass Effect, World of Warcraft, Counterstrike: Global Offensive (that's right a FPS game) and many many others....I meet and see women gamer's all the time (my daughter, 23 and a new mother has been a gamer since age 5). This hobby as become all inclusive and more and more diverse over the years. I, for one, and happy as hell women play these games with us as it has helped to destroy the myth that only 'kids and little boy's' play video games. I even get my butt stomped regularly in 'StarCraft II' by women and to me....it's oddly refreshing.

Kimimarox wrote: Well, there is cetrainly more male players of games like Skyrim.

It's when you take all games, including casual ones, you get a score closer to half.

Women tend to play different games, and before anyone gets mad or something, tihs doesn't mean that casual gamers are inferior. Casual gaming is quickly becoming the biggest right now. Walking simulators/handheld games etc. are becoming more and more popular.

darkhero67 wrote: regardless of what you openion is i do wish their were female players this just says to me a lot of girls are missing out on some pretty fun experiances

I hope that's not true! I am a female gamer and certainly hope that game developers don't think we're a minority. I started gaming with Tomb Raider (I think Doom was a big game at that time and I remember thinking "ugh!") But with the Baldur's Gate series and then The Elder Scrolls, I've never thought that women were not catered for in the gaming world and I hope that continues. I wanted to say that maybe women don't mod as much as men do but I've download (and loved) a lot of mods created by women. A big thank you to them all (and the men modders!) who have enhanced and extended the lives of our much loved games!

BTW sorry I missed this survey. I only log in occasionally and did not see a notice about a survey.

[Pixeldust]

In response to post #27772820. #27773245, #27785260, #27787150, #27827605, #27828245, #27828875, #27833980, #27837490, #27840175, #27841035 are all replies on the same post.

Comix777 wrote: It was pretty obvious that women are a tiny minority. Despite this whole lie that "45% of gamers are female", men are, and always were, a large majority of gamers. It's as simple as that.

westsidekidd wrote: And from where do you have this information?
I am 42 years old. When I started to play Computer games when I was 14 years old, no girl was ever interested in playing Computer games, at least not many, but this has absolutely changed and there will be a lot more in the future. Thanks to games which have a story, like Dragon Age and Mass Effect and also Skyrim and Fallout.
Go look on deviantart, how many female Mass Effect and Dragon Age fans there are, for example. To me it seems there are a lot more than male fans.
So in my opinion it could really be that half of the gamers these days ARE in fact females.

xenoforge78 wrote: None of that really related to what he said, apart from your opinion on whether it's true or not. Obviously here it's a vast majority, and I highly doubt it will ever rise; it doesn't need to. The whole stat of half of gamers are women is pretty much rubbish.

westsidekidd wrote: None of that? My whole comment is about what he said.

EspadaDeHelado wrote: Yeah, this isn't exactly that relevant to the survey at all, but yes there is a low percentage of woman gamers/gaming enthusiasts (the people who would use mods and a mod hub). The numbers from studies are used disingenuously. It is roughly a half and half split for "people who play games" because of handheld and mobile games, but women tend to play more causal games on average either through their phones or through social media websites like Facebook rather than the heavier games that mainline gaming technology and culture is engrossed in. That's what skews the graph in that area, and then even in heavier games you still have splits in preference between genres. https://i.imgur.com/QwjTwT2.jpg

toadlet wrote: I disagree with your comment, Comix777. You cannot use the nexus survey to prove or disprove how many male or female gamers there actually are. I know many people who are very anti-modding regarding their own gaming, so therefore these people are probably not even be signed up to nexus, let alone answering this survey, regardless of sex. All you can take away from this survey is that there are more male users of nexus than female (who bothered to do the survey).

westsidekidd wrote: @toadlet
And this survey wasn't even really representative. There are a lot of users (male and female), who didn't even knew that there was this survey or they simply didn't answered it, but fact is, that there are a lot more female gamers out there than some people think.

Reaper0021 wrote: I'm 44 been gaming since 1977. Used to be a 'Man's' only land (boys if you like). Now, in games like Skyrim, Fallout, Mass Effect, World of Warcraft, Counterstrike: Global Offensive (that's right a FPS game) and many many others....I meet and see women gamer's all the time (my daughter, 23 and a new mother has been a gamer since age 5). This hobby as become all inclusive and more and more diverse over the years. I, for one, and happy as hell women play these games with us as it has helped to destroy the myth that only 'kids and little boy's' play video games. I even get my butt stomped regularly in 'StarCraft II' by women and to me....it's oddly refreshing.

Kimimarox wrote: Well, there is cetrainly more male players of games like Skyrim.

It's when you take all games, including casual ones, you get a score closer to half.

Women tend to play different games, and before anyone gets mad or something, tihs doesn't mean that casual gamers are inferior. Casual gaming is quickly becoming the biggest right now. Walking simulators/handheld games etc. are becoming more and more popular.

darkhero67 wrote: regardless of what you openion is i do wish their were female players this just says to me a lot of girls are missing out on some pretty fun experiances

Hilda1007 wrote: I hope that's not true! I am a female gamer and certainly hope that game developers don't think we're a minority. I started gaming with Tomb Raider (I think Doom was a big game at that time and I remember thinking "ugh!") But with the Baldur's Gate series and then The Elder Scrolls, I've never thought that women were not catered for in the gaming world and I hope that continues. I wanted to say that maybe women don't mod as much as men do but I've download (and loved) a lot of mods created by women. A big thank you to them all (and the men modders!) who have enhanced and extended the lives of our much loved games!

BTW sorry I missed this survey. I only log in occasionally and did not see a notice about a survey.

If you actually googled it, you'd realize it isn't a lie at all. And that number posting is from CNN. Here is the link... http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/tech/gaming-gadgets/female-gamers/ ((It's literally one of the first results on Google if you search "45% of gamers are female." ))

I'm a female and play mostly PC games aka Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and many other not casual types of games. Although do own some consoles. Although whether it's a casual game or not, it's still a video game, and that market is obviously no longer just for men but women too.

Also, not everyone on the Nexus responded to this poll. Though with how much skimpy armor mods inhabit the website here, I'm amazed you act like it's a surprise that the percentage of females here is so low.

Heres another poll that says that 52% of the gaming community is now women. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/52-percent-people-playing-games-women-industry-doesnt-know

Edited August 15, 2015 by Pixeldust

[westsidekidd]

In response to post #27772820. #27773245, #27785260, #27787150, #27827605, #27828245, #27828875, #27833980, #27837490, #27840175, #27841035, #27848505 are all replies on the same post.

Comix777 wrote: It was pretty obvious that women are a tiny minority. Despite this whole lie that "45% of gamers are female", men are, and always were, a large majority of gamers. It's as simple as that.

westsidekidd wrote: And from where do you have this information?
I am 42 years old. When I started to play Computer games when I was 14 years old, no girl was ever interested in playing Computer games, at least not many, but this has absolutely changed and there will be a lot more in the future. Thanks to games which have a story, like Dragon Age and Mass Effect and also Skyrim and Fallout.
Go look on deviantart, how many female Mass Effect and Dragon Age fans there are, for example. To me it seems there are a lot more than male fans.
So in my opinion it could really be that half of the gamers these days ARE in fact females.

xenoforge78 wrote: None of that really related to what he said, apart from your opinion on whether it's true or not. Obviously here it's a vast majority, and I highly doubt it will ever rise; it doesn't need to. The whole stat of half of gamers are women is pretty much rubbish.

westsidekidd wrote: None of that? My whole comment is about what he said.

EspadaDeHelado wrote: Yeah, this isn't exactly that relevant to the survey at all, but yes there is a low percentage of woman gamers/gaming enthusiasts (the people who would use mods and a mod hub). The numbers from studies are used disingenuously. It is roughly a half and half split for "people who play games" because of handheld and mobile games, but women tend to play more causal games on average either through their phones or through social media websites like Facebook rather than the heavier games that mainline gaming technology and culture is engrossed in. That's what skews the graph in that area, and then even in heavier games you still have splits in preference between genres. https://i.imgur.com/QwjTwT2.jpg

toadlet wrote: I disagree with your comment, Comix777. You cannot use the nexus survey to prove or disprove how many male or female gamers there actually are. I know many people who are very anti-modding regarding their own gaming, so therefore these people are probably not even be signed up to nexus, let alone answering this survey, regardless of sex. All you can take away from this survey is that there are more male users of nexus than female (who bothered to do the survey).

westsidekidd wrote: @toadlet
And this survey wasn't even really representative. There are a lot of users (male and female), who didn't even knew that there was this survey or they simply didn't answered it, but fact is, that there are a lot more female gamers out there than some people think.

Reaper0021 wrote: I'm 44 been gaming since 1977. Used to be a 'Man's' only land (boys if you like). Now, in games like Skyrim, Fallout, Mass Effect, World of Warcraft, Counterstrike: Global Offensive (that's right a FPS game) and many many others....I meet and see women gamer's all the time (my daughter, 23 and a new mother has been a gamer since age 5). This hobby as become all inclusive and more and more diverse over the years. I, for one, and happy as hell women play these games with us as it has helped to destroy the myth that only 'kids and little boy's' play video games. I even get my butt stomped regularly in 'StarCraft II' by women and to me....it's oddly refreshing.

Kimimarox wrote: Well, there is cetrainly more male players of games like Skyrim.

It's when you take all games, including casual ones, you get a score closer to half.

Women tend to play different games, and before anyone gets mad or something, tihs doesn't mean that casual gamers are inferior. Casual gaming is quickly becoming the biggest right now. Walking simulators/handheld games etc. are becoming more and more popular.

darkhero67 wrote: regardless of what you openion is i do wish their were female players this just says to me a lot of girls are missing out on some pretty fun experiances

Hilda1007 wrote: I hope that's not true! I am a female gamer and certainly hope that game developers don't think we're a minority. I started gaming with Tomb Raider (I think Doom was a big game at that time and I remember thinking "ugh!") But with the Baldur's Gate series and then The Elder Scrolls, I've never thought that women were not catered for in the gaming world and I hope that continues. I wanted to say that maybe women don't mod as much as men do but I've download (and loved) a lot of mods created by women. A big thank you to them all (and the men modders!) who have enhanced and extended the lives of our much loved games!

BTW sorry I missed this survey. I only log in occasionally and did not see a notice about a survey.

Pixeldust wrote: If you actually googled it, you'd realize it isn't a lie at all. And that number posting is from CNN. Here is the link... http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/tech/gaming-gadgets/female-gamers/ ((It's literally one of the first results on Google if you search "45% of gamers are female." ))

I'm a female and play mostly PC games aka Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and many other not casual types of games. Although do own some consoles. Although whether it's a casual game or not, it's still a video game, and that market is obviously no longer just for men but women too.

Also, not everyone on the Nexus responded to this poll. Though with how much skimpy armor mods inhabit the website here, I'm amazed you act like it's a surprise that the percentage of females here is so low.

Heres another poll that says that 52% of the gaming community is now women. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/52-percent-people-playing-games-women-industry-doesnt-know

@Pixeldust
Absolutely right! Kudos to you for this comment.

[Maigrets]

I completed the survey and I'm a female gamer, 60 years old and started out with the Commodore 64 way, way back in the dark ages of gaming.

It doesn't surprise me that a section of male gamers would like to think that females only play casual games, and couldn't possibly like anything with challenge or a sense of danger. It seems to me that some male players become defensive when the subject of female gamers comes up, especially in the domain of FPS, adventure, RPG or horror games.

My favourite games of all time are the Gothic series which don't hold your hand like many recent games, most other RPG's, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, and more recently Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2:Scholar of the First Sin.

I've played the original Dark Souls 2 and Scholar for over 1000 hours combined according to my Steam profile and will continue to do so even though I'm taking a break and revisiting Fallout 3 and New Vegas while waiting for Fallout 4. Tell me those are casual games.

I modded for Oblivion, played the game to death and still have it installed. I also recently replayed Morrowind and thoroughly enjoyed it. To be perfectly honest though Skyrim was a big disappointment to me for many reasons. I have a lot of hours played in Skyrim, but many of those were starting over for one reason or another.

On the subject of skimpy armour and nudity - I don't mind either considering the history of art, ie painting, and sculpture etc and human history in general. I don't see a reason for me to block them. I use body replacers in my games after all. As someone else mentioned blocking these mods can also lock me out of more good ones by the same authors. I don't even really care about the prostitution mods even though I don't use them.

I am however offended as a female by the obvious porn mods, here and elsewhere, that make a mockery of the female form and in some cases reveal the creator's hatred and fear of women as equal humans. After all, how many of these mods do you see ridiculing males to the same extent, and I wouldn't want that either. Mods like a certain "Nympho" mod on the Skyrim Nexus is a "fine" example of this, not to mention others like Estrus.

We've been told these mods are not going away from the Nexus at least, so my opinion as one of those "rare" female gamers who visits here doesn't matter. :sad:

[westsidekidd]

In response to post #27851849.

Maigrets wrote:

I completed the survey and I'm a female gamer, 60 years old and started out with the Commodore 64 way, way back in the dark ages of gaming.

It doesn't surprise me that a section of male gamers would like to think that females only play casual games, and couldn't possibly like anything with challenge or a sense of danger. It seems to me that some male players become defensive when the subject of female gamers comes up, especially in the domain of FPS, adventure, RPG or horror games.

My favourite games of all time are the Gothic series which don't hold your hand like many recent games, most other RPG's, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, and more recently Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2:Scholar of the First Sin.

I've played the original Dark Souls 2 and Scholar for over 1000 hours combined according to my Steam profile and will continue to do so even though I'm taking a break and revisiting Fallout 3 and New Vegas while waiting for Fallout 4. Tell me those are casual games.

I modded for Oblivion, played the game to death and still have it installed. I also recently replayed Morrowind and thoroughly enjoyed it. To be perfectly honest though Skyrim was a big disappointment to me for many reasons. I have a lot of hours played in Skyrim, but many of those were starting over for one reason or another.

On the subject of skimpy armour and nudity - I don't mind either considering the history of art, ie painting, and sculpture etc and human history in general. I don't see a reason for me to block them. I use body replacers in my games after all. As someone else mentioned blocking these mods can also lock me out of more good ones by the same authors. I don't even really care about the prostitution mods even though I don't use them.

I am however offended as a female by the obvious porn mods, here and elsewhere, that make a mockery of the female form and in some cases reveal the creator's hatred and fear of women as equal humans. After all, how many of these mods do you see ridiculing males to the same extent, and I wouldn't want that either. Mods like a certain "Nympho" mod on the Skyrim Nexus is a "fine" example of this, not to mention others like Estrus.

We've been told these mods are not going away from the Nexus at least, so my opinion as one of those "rare" female gamers who visits here doesn't matter. :sad:

Great comment! Kudos! :)

[Ellawe]

In response to post #27527609. #27527849, #27527994, #27528224, #27528879, #27528919, #27529224, #27529299, #27529544, #27529909, #27530019, #27530539, #27530744, #27531059, #27532069, #27532379, #27532479, #27532774, #27534654, #27536949, #27537029, #27537364, #27537434, #27537699, #27537784, #27538114, #27539284, #27542064, #27542384, #27543549, #27544024, #27544079, #27544349, #27545064, #27547409, #27549534, #27554170, #27554760, #27554915, #27555635, #27559975, #27561095, #27561920, #27562995, #27565100, #27565465, #27566025, #27566285, #27567170, #27570770, #27572065, #27576690, #27576960, #27579905, #27595795, #27598485, #27607280, #27608280, #27610230, #27613615, #27642130, #27695640, #27697270, #27702335, #27704350, #27705270, #27709465, #27714420, #27717690, #27732750, #27739125, #27742175, #27785690 are all replies on the same post.

Jokerine wrote: Gee. I had no idea girls were so rare around these parts... :laugh:

Elianora wrote: Especially when you consider so many of us authors that turn out to be girls!

Jaxonz, kryptopyr, Mattie, you and me, Tamira, zzjay....

Man, now we just need more mod user girls since we have the author front covered! :D

crazytaz wrote: all so there are some people who didn't take the survey

MotoSxorpio wrote: Yeah, quite a shock about the gender numbers. I was sure it was closer to 70-30 male dominant.

Looking forward to what the future brings for the sites. Looks like BlindJudge is jumping in with both feet.

Niyogi wrote: Female user here. I'm super shocked by the gender numbers. I agree with Moto. I thought the gap wouldn't be so large. It does explain the lack of female tailored mods out there though. At least there are some! :)

Tamira wrote: Yeah, took me by surprise too :D

SolidusEkans wrote: Call NeoGAF!!!

Madcat221 wrote:

Jaxonz, kryptopyr, Mattie, you and me, Tamira, zzjay....

You two and Tamira were apparent, but... the others? o_O And I thought I was on top of checking profiles to check gender to avoid such awkward moments...

Thumblesteen wrote: I'm not that surprised, to be honest. I mean, let's face it, the gaming industry have spent the last ten years or so making every effort humanly possible to alienate women. It's quite tragic, really. To all the women out there who still haven't given up on gaming as a passtime, I must say, I'm quite inspired. To put up with all the sexist nonsense is a proper show of strength.

AmiMizuno wrote: >.< Endangered species... lol more like just a dang rare sight. I was surprised too at this very skewed gender numbers!

thesniperdevil wrote: I am sure all those skimpy anime mods on the front page don't help in attracting female audiences.

EMS60 wrote: Hey, not every woman plays SIMS or how things like this are called. :pinch:

But if this is the reflection of the usership I'll never ever wonder anymore why half of the mods want to make your female Dragonborn look like some half nude kindergarten welp with the breast size of Chelsea Charms and the male ones like some watered down Final Fantasy toy boys. :laugh:
<= *praises fadingsignal and Maevan2*

But seriously... I never thought that the female percentage and my own age range would be so small. o_O

madpaddy wrote: 3% of those females are probably men pretending to be women, its a bizarre internet phenomenon ive never understood.

Elbethien wrote: I thought the same about women, pretending to be male.

llamaRCA wrote: I "collect" girl modders (know who they are) because there are so few of us :)

Signette wrote: Not surprised really, my guess that if such question would be put out on ANY gaming-only site/community at its core the numbers would be close to that.

Many women/girls are convinced that gaming is too childish or stupid and don't get involved in it or hiding it as best as they can, but tbh in more or less civil countries EVERYONE is a gamer even if that means some casual mobile or browser gaming.

Stereotypes rules minds these days.

t3h0th3r wrote: I fact, 70% of the Top 10 adult mods are by a female modder ;)

Zchu wrote: People are always surprised I am female. I guess I should add something girly on my user name??? I mean my Avy is my female OC... but still.

I am a mod creator also, I just don't publish my work. I horde my things all for myself =p
The only thing published publicly I helped with is the Fine Faces texture. I worked on the neck, ears and redid the feet textures for SAM body.

One day i will publish one of my mods that is not too personal (not one of my OC's is what I mean)

I also download tons of skimpy armor and have nude mods. Not for any pervy reasons, rather as an artist I find the human form beautiful. I want my characters to be perfect and customized, every bit of them.

That's my 2 cents anyway ^^

Jeir wrote: I was also surprised by the gender results. I make no secret that I'm female (nor did Caliente, when she was still around) and I've never had any issues from other people about it; not even considering the fact I'm co-author of the most popular female body mod on Skyrim Nexus. XD I also know of a number of mod makers and users who are female.
It could simply be that a lot of the ladies around simply didn't answer the survey. Many people just come for the mods, and may not pay attention to the news, so may not have seen it.

nivea wrote: *Sobs* Well at least I know there are a few of us out there lol.

*Hugs Llama* :)

lydiacat wrote: Wow! We are rare. Interesting.

cavity75 wrote: I usually just ignore the skimpy mods, as a woman of course it turned me away from nexus mods for a while. But I've actually been working on creating mods, I've been into stuff like that since I was younger, and I've decided to start. I just block that content and stick to my female characters having their vanilla bodies.

cavity75 wrote: GIRLS ADD ME!!!! We need to stick together

llamaRCA wrote: @Nivea - *hugs* :)

@cavity75 - Hi! Went to add you, but you'd beat me to it!

:) llama

DerpyJones wrote: ^^ omg a girl!

CoffeeShopSamurai wrote: yeah, not gonna lie, that's news to me too

bethjunkie wrote: The survey hung up on me and I don't think it ever submitted so that could have happened to more of us unicorns and skewed the results. I know quite a few female modders and mod users over the age of 35 on these sites.

8% 35-44...buncha whippersnappers! *grumble grumble*

Heaventhere wrote: I am a bit shocked not more of us woman on nexus, really just 9%, blows me away.... or maybe it is not many woman did the survey as I know a lot of woman and 9% seems really small....but even with my name have been called dude so many times in comments I wonder if anyone looks to see who they are commenting to lol.

Was just looking again and saw I am in the 55 to 64, 2 % range... gee many of us either.

taerie wrote: I've done my best but all my female friends just kind of roll their eyes and tune me out. I am a female user and (very rudimentary) mod author AND in the 55 to 64 2%! It is damn lonely out here being a unicorn!

All the front page female mods are only annoying to me because they are not balanced by front page male mods. Fix that and it might help the situation.

CaiusN wrote: I agree with Taerie that for me, it's somewhat off-putting to have few to no male front page mods to balance the female ones. I don't mind the skimpy clothing per se, but without male stuff to match it certainly gives me the impression this is a bit of a boy's club. It's not like the system cheats for this either, guys and gals often prefer to play dress-up with female characters. This is more a concern for managing people's first, second, and third impressions so they stick around to share and develop their talents.

So, thinking productively: "hide adult mods" is pretty narrow, but having a '-skimpy' tag setting as the public default for front page views would be a good test to see if it pulls more repeat users. Better tag integration would allow me to search for armor with meshes for both genders, but without avoiding skimpy.

Well I guess I'd better start contributing the sort of things I like in any case. That's the beauty of mods.

akparkison wrote: Happy female user here. And not shocked the number for women players was so low. Honestly. ;)

It is amazing given how MANY modders are females. Seriously. UGH.

JZBai wrote: So to offset the effect of the skimpy female armors and bring in a larger female user base to the Nexus, we need more skimpy male armors on the front page...

COME BACK SCHLONGS OF SKYRIM!!!!! THE NEXUS NEEDS YOUR HELP!!!!!!!

nyxalinth wrote: Nyxalinth :D

Eolhin wrote: I am a female mod author in the 45 to 54: 5%. I have to say, I knew that the numbers were skewed for age and gender, but I didn't think they were THAT skewed. o_O It would be interesting to see if, from a demographic perspective, female users are just less likely to answer surveys. *wry chuckle*

Interesting... if you add up the percentages, you end up with 101% for Gender, and for Age, both. There must be some funky rounding going on there somewhere.

Ash117 wrote: I don't even blink anymore when people say, "Hey man." Or call me dude.
I should probably change the colour of my spartan to pink, but blue is my favourite colour...

Eolhin wrote: I agree with you entirely regarding blue. :) I am not giving it up to dispel gender ambiguity for those that can't be bothered to look up the gender of the person they are addressing. I think "dude" is sort of becoming a universal unisex term though, a kind of gender-non-specific pronoun. Either that, or linguistically, unknown and gender uncertain situations are all defaulting male now.

Lisnpuppy wrote: <---is one of the 9%

thefinn wrote: lol only 5% of us between 45-54 :\

Zaldiir wrote: There may be few of you, but by the gods, do you contribute! I think the percentage would be a bit different had the survey only been for mod authors. :)

ukankissthis wrote: As for the gaming industry being aimed at men I am going to point out the obvious sexism, no joke these days but even the top CEO's in the gaming industry will state that that is their targeted market. I am starting to get an idea bout the modding tools and I am going to eventually create my own due to a serious lack thereof.

Saerileth wrote:

I mean, let's face it, the gaming industry have spent the last ten years or so making every effort humanly possible to alienate women.

Uh... I didn't notice any of all that. Maybe I'm playing the "wrong" kind of games? But I never felt put off, certainly not because of my gender.

Signette wrote:

Uh... I didn't notice any of all that. Maybe I'm playing the "wrong" kind of games? But I never felt put off, certainly not because of my gender.

Well, considering majority of most popular titles featuring brutal males with weapons (guns or swords) killing as a main goal (like in 90% of video games) making dumb sexist jokes on the go, or female character as main protagonist in waaaay too skimpy looks attracting young horny males...

Fightning, racing, building or sports don't usually attract females, that's why SIMS is n1 on fem gaming list, which is sad, really...

That's the gaming industry today.

Saerileth wrote:

Fightning, racing, building or sports don't usually attract females

You know, that's actually part of the problem right there - public opinion telling me and other potential gaming women that we have no business enjoying any of these things. Maybe you should start blaming the media for brainwhashing parents into believing that girls need barbies while boys get trucks and squirt guns, instead of condemning gaming companies for making great, successful games. ;)

BlueWarlord wrote: The gender results were not a total surprise. I think females tend to be casual gamers, but casuals lean toward console, while serious gamers tend to lean toward PC. So i don't think this poll is representive of the actual female gaming community, just the nexus community.

CriManto wrote: Male user here. Oh yea, i think that games and mods are not only for us guys. Games are for all. :D

tracysilva wrote: I thought there would be more ladies too. But in saying that I don't know any other women that play games. Lets hope that improves! :D (I'm a lady player and love using mods)

CoffeeShopSamurai wrote: Plus you've gotta keep in mind that internet surveys are never the most reliable source for information. The numbers they have are probably relatively good, but there is always potential for data to be skewed in one way or another. When there are more people answering, the data isn't as accurate.

megageeklizzy wrote: Well, the percentage of the gaming community that is female has been rising quite steadily, and while a lot of people think that females mostly play Candy Crush and other (horribly sexist) "girl games", there is also a growing population of PC and console female gamers. As a female who is a part of the gaming community, as well as a student studying to be an artist in the industry, I think games have taken huge steps toward being better suited to women. Sure, we still have our scantily dressed heroines with thunder-thighs and massive breasts, but at least they aren't stuck in a cage crying while they wait to be rescued by the male protagonist.

KaoFox wrote: to be fair i'm not all that surprised at the gap... given all the "Adult" content tailored to guys floods the front pages daily. i think it would be interesting to see the sexuality gaps instead tho.

Badgerwoman wrote: 9%. Dang. I figured there would be more men, but that's crazy. There has got to be more that just 9%. Even in the MMO good ol boys club, there's more women than that. Maybe its just that more men took the survey, proportionately?

tonycubed2 wrote: I am in that 5 percent group too. Makes me feel old...

Ithildin wrote: <== 9% gender group, 5% age group (first game I ever played was the home version of Atari Pong). I'm a mod user who sometimes creates mods for personal use, participated in the survey, and am very surprised about the gender ratio. o_O

Sertith wrote: I'm kind of surprised so many ladies are bothered by the nude/semi nude mods here. Here we are, killing things in this game, kill cams and dismemberment but heaven forbid someone post boob mods? I'm a female gamer, and I don't give a poo if there are some boobs on the front page. If you want more hot nudie guy mods on the front page, make them?

My only concern about any nude mods, male or female, is the amount of kids that play this game, and come here looking for mods. For the sake of not getting sued, you'd think the "adult" mods would only be visible behind a account creation. I know people lie all the time about ages on the internet, but at least if they HAVE to sign up to see naked elves, you have some defense if a suin' happens.

Socratatus wrote: Just the reality. males are far more into games than females, despite what the feminists say. And it isn`t because of bullying or anything like that. That`s just the way it is- Nothing wrong with that.

cavity75 wrote: Dude feminism is equality it had nothing to do with games yo

Dragonfire12 wrote: I am deeply troubled by the outcome of this survey regarding the participation of women. So much so that I would suggest to the Nexus Management that they generate a new survey from women only. This simply can not be a true testament to the contribution of women to our community. Please give them their own survey. They deserve it.

Eolhin wrote: I really don't see that a survey of women only would have much point... Other than perhaps to indicate what percentage of women who are active here, and answer surveys, are also mod creators, or the like.

A better idea might be a more extended survey (as in, over a longer period of time), in order to catch people with a wider range of schedules. At least a week would be needed to get a broader picture of things, and even then, this being Summer, the percentage of those still of school age is likely to be skewed higher.

If the only idea of the survey was demographics, I am sure there is some way for those in charge to access statistics on what percentage of account holders have declared themselves to be what gender, or what age in their profile (as well as those that decline to state). The site also tracks when an account holder was last active, and whether they have posted any mods, so if they wanted to limit the results to only currently active members, or only mod authors, that could be done as well. I would be curious to see those broader statistics myself. But I believe the actual point of the survey was to get opinions of what the site is doing right and wrong, and what users in general thought should be improved, and how. The demographic information on the respondees was, I think, provided more as an interesting aside then as the intended results of the survey.

Amiachan wrote: I'm a girl. I'm honestly kinda shocked at the numbers, but it IS true that a lot of girls pretend to be guys online and vice versa, so....how can we tell? Oh well, what does it matter? We're all gamers, that's the important thing~!

BluePianoTwo wrote: Wow- I thought that there would be more of us ladies as well. Interesting.

OzoneGames wrote: @Elianora now that you mentioned multiple authors that by name that are girls, then all sort of creepy, hopeful or desperate lonely nerds will add them as friends, including me.

Edit: No, Im not actually going to add anyone. I have too much bride to approach women (or alternatively just too shy)

v1p3r01 wrote: With all the sexed, skimpy "armor", body textures and what not is no wonder 90% are males. Many never seen a real woman naked up close, so all they can do is make their dream waifu in game while taking the worm out and start burping it with making 100 pics per day to share with the community for "OMG gief likes I am special look at my plastic gurl". Why not just play a direct adult game instead of turning this game into a porn/dressing/character simulator? Each their own. Just my thoughts.

Still adult mods are lore friendly, the children in the game didn't came out from nowhere. Nor should it be the lack of prostitution, gambling, profanity or generic adult pastures. TES games are so childish when compared to Witcher series.

Mofakin wrote: Jaxonz is a female? Now that is a surprise. Given all the technical Mods she created I could have sworn she's a male. I didn't expect kryptopyr to be a female as well...:)

Females enrich communitys, half of my friends on Steam are girls...so...

shadowslasher410 wrote: Being a female gamer/modder (though most of my mods I made for myself so they don't really count, IMO), it IS kind of suprising...
Just take a look at
http://msmagazine.com/blog/2013/06/13/actually-about-half-of-gamers-are-women/

As of 2013, about 45% of gamers are female. I wouldn't be surprised to find that it's increased in the past two years.

There's an appalling amount of sexism, and comments about domestic violence, rape, and how "Women shouldn't be playing video games, they should be in the kitchen LOL1!1!1!"

Note: Their words, not mine. I don't agree with it at all- like I said, I AM a female gamer- I'm just bringing it to light, please don't flame me. ;)

Winjin wrote: Didn't even have time to complete the survey, was basically away from anything with electricity for the past few days)

NickSheperd wrote: I don't know what planet you're living on. But the gaming industry here on Earth has done absolutely no such thing.

Lamproly wrote: "I'm kind of surprised so many ladies are bothered by the nude/semi nude mods here. Here we are, killing things in this game, kill cams and dismemberment but heaven forbid someone post boob mods?"

Nude doesn't bother me. Skimpiness does. Many females pay attention to style and sense of fashion. So if you have a nice armor and just cut out the crotch area and tights, it may attract a male, but is otherwise completely senseless and not aesthetically pleasing anymore. It just looks like they forgot to put on their trousers.
This makes me really sad because skimpiness for its own sake ruins some good designs.

I'd also like a tag that you just can hide it in the search. Saves much time.

tiwa44 wrote: Lamproly, it already exists:

In the account options popup, click on "block content", then you have a whole bunch of things you can choose to block, such as skimpy stuff. For example, i use it to block translations and saved games. It works really well, shame so many people don't even know it exists.

SammySahm wrote: "But seriously... I never thought that the female percentage and my own age range would be so small."

I, too, was stunned.

azterixmc wrote: Haha, same here! My younger sister loves playing Skyrim and I have just introduced her to modding. I think I've been a positive influence in turning her over to the geek side. ;)

@Elianora, you're one of my favorite modders btw, keep up the awesome work!

miketheratguy wrote: I was surprised by the gender percentages as well. I think more women would feel comfortable browsing this site if they didn't run across absurdly giant breasts and transparent dental floss "armor" roughly every eleven seconds.

WightMage wrote: Oh cripes, I didn't realize half of those people you listed were women! xD

Least of all Jaxonz and zzjay.

SnarkyHouseplant wrote: Oh my goodness. If it isn't the best player home mod author on the Nexus. I really love your work, especially all the detail and objects all over the place. I have to say it makes all of your player homes feel lived in and sort of real.
Sincerely, Snarky

xenoforge78 wrote: It's almost like the gaming industry is tailored to the vast majority of players...

I have on occassion pretended to be male on gaming or computer-related websites to just avoid meh-ness on the genderpart. "Ohh you're a girl? We'll use less technical terms." I'm from the science-division of college, where being a girl is still a bit awkward(the gothic part doesnt help but still) so I got used to the feeling now. Even though great games like Mass Effect a.o. exist with awesome female protagonists it's still a bit special to be a girlgamer. I hope in a few years the polls will straighten out into 50%.

[toadlet]

In response to post #27851849. #27852459 is also a reply to the same post.

Maigrets wrote:

I completed the survey and I'm a female gamer, 60 years old and started out with the Commodore 64 way, way back in the dark ages of gaming.

It doesn't surprise me that a section of male gamers would like to think that females only play casual games, and couldn't possibly like anything with challenge or a sense of danger. It seems to me that some male players become defensive when the subject of female gamers comes up, especially in the domain of FPS, adventure, RPG or horror games.

My favourite games of all time are the Gothic series which don't hold your hand like many recent games, most other RPG's, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, and more recently Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2:Scholar of the First Sin.

I've played the original Dark Souls 2 and Scholar for over 1000 hours combined according to my Steam profile and will continue to do so even though I'm taking a break and revisiting Fallout 3 and New Vegas while waiting for Fallout 4. Tell me those are casual games.

I modded for Oblivion, played the game to death and still have it installed. I also recently replayed Morrowind and thoroughly enjoyed it. To be perfectly honest though Skyrim was a big disappointment to me for many reasons. I have a lot of hours played in Skyrim, but many of those were starting over for one reason or another.

On the subject of skimpy armour and nudity - I don't mind either considering the history of art, ie painting, and sculpture etc and human history in general. I don't see a reason for me to block them. I use body replacers in my games after all. As someone else mentioned blocking these mods can also lock me out of more good ones by the same authors. I don't even really care about the prostitution mods even though I don't use them.

I am however offended as a female by the obvious porn mods, here and elsewhere, that make a mockery of the female form and in some cases reveal the creator's hatred and fear of women as equal humans. After all, how many of these mods do you see ridiculing males to the same extent, and I wouldn't want that either. Mods like a certain "Nympho" mod on the Skyrim Nexus is a "fine" example of this, not to mention others like Estrus.

We've been told these mods are not going away from the Nexus at least, so my opinion as one of those "rare" female gamers who visits here doesn't matter. :sad:

westsidekidd wrote: Great comment! Kudos! :)

well said.

[Demonikone]

In response to post #27772820. #27773245, #27785260, #27787150, #27827605, #27828245, #27828875, #27833980, #27837490, #27840175, #27841035, #27848505, #27850734 are all replies on the same post.

Comix777 wrote: It was pretty obvious that women are a tiny minority. Despite this whole lie that "45% of gamers are female", men are, and always were, a large majority of gamers. It's as simple as that.

westsidekidd wrote: And from where do you have this information?
I am 42 years old. When I started to play Computer games when I was 14 years old, no girl was ever interested in playing Computer games, at least not many, but this has absolutely changed and there will be a lot more in the future. Thanks to games which have a story, like Dragon Age and Mass Effect and also Skyrim and Fallout.
Go look on deviantart, how many female Mass Effect and Dragon Age fans there are, for example. To me it seems there are a lot more than male fans.
So in my opinion it could really be that half of the gamers these days ARE in fact females.

xenoforge78 wrote: None of that really related to what he said, apart from your opinion on whether it's true or not. Obviously here it's a vast majority, and I highly doubt it will ever rise; it doesn't need to. The whole stat of half of gamers are women is pretty much rubbish.

westsidekidd wrote: None of that? My whole comment is about what he said.

EspadaDeHelado wrote: Yeah, this isn't exactly that relevant to the survey at all, but yes there is a low percentage of woman gamers/gaming enthusiasts (the people who would use mods and a mod hub). The numbers from studies are used disingenuously. It is roughly a half and half split for "people who play games" because of handheld and mobile games, but women tend to play more causal games on average either through their phones or through social media websites like Facebook rather than the heavier games that mainline gaming technology and culture is engrossed in. That's what skews the graph in that area, and then even in heavier games you still have splits in preference between genres. https://i.imgur.com/QwjTwT2.jpg

toadlet wrote: I disagree with your comment, Comix777. You cannot use the nexus survey to prove or disprove how many male or female gamers there actually are. I know many people who are very anti-modding regarding their own gaming, so therefore these people are probably not even be signed up to nexus, let alone answering this survey, regardless of sex. All you can take away from this survey is that there are more male users of nexus than female (who bothered to do the survey).

westsidekidd wrote: @toadlet
And this survey wasn't even really representative. There are a lot of users (male and female), who didn't even knew that there was this survey or they simply didn't answered it, but fact is, that there are a lot more female gamers out there than some people think.

Reaper0021 wrote: I'm 44 been gaming since 1977. Used to be a 'Man's' only land (boys if you like). Now, in games like Skyrim, Fallout, Mass Effect, World of Warcraft, Counterstrike: Global Offensive (that's right a FPS game) and many many others....I meet and see women gamer's all the time (my daughter, 23 and a new mother has been a gamer since age 5). This hobby as become all inclusive and more and more diverse over the years. I, for one, and happy as hell women play these games with us as it has helped to destroy the myth that only 'kids and little boy's' play video games. I even get my butt stomped regularly in 'StarCraft II' by women and to me....it's oddly refreshing.

Kimimarox wrote: Well, there is cetrainly more male players of games like Skyrim.

It's when you take all games, including casual ones, you get a score closer to half.

Women tend to play different games, and before anyone gets mad or something, tihs doesn't mean that casual gamers are inferior. Casual gaming is quickly becoming the biggest right now. Walking simulators/handheld games etc. are becoming more and more popular.

darkhero67 wrote: regardless of what you openion is i do wish their were female players this just says to me a lot of girls are missing out on some pretty fun experiances

Hilda1007 wrote: I hope that's not true! I am a female gamer and certainly hope that game developers don't think we're a minority. I started gaming with Tomb Raider (I think Doom was a big game at that time and I remember thinking "ugh!") But with the Baldur's Gate series and then The Elder Scrolls, I've never thought that women were not catered for in the gaming world and I hope that continues. I wanted to say that maybe women don't mod as much as men do but I've download (and loved) a lot of mods created by women. A big thank you to them all (and the men modders!) who have enhanced and extended the lives of our much loved games!

BTW sorry I missed this survey. I only log in occasionally and did not see a notice about a survey.

Pixeldust wrote: If you actually googled it, you'd realize it isn't a lie at all. And that number posting is from CNN. Here is the link... http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/tech/gaming-gadgets/female-gamers/ ((It's literally one of the first results on Google if you search "45% of gamers are female." ))

I'm a female and play mostly PC games aka Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and many other not casual types of games. Although do own some consoles. Although whether it's a casual game or not, it's still a video game, and that market is obviously no longer just for men but women too.

Also, not everyone on the Nexus responded to this poll. Though with how much skimpy armor mods inhabit the website here, I'm amazed you act like it's a surprise that the percentage of females here is so low.

Heres another poll that says that 52% of the gaming community is now women. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/52-percent-people-playing-games-women-industry-doesnt-know

westsidekidd wrote: @Pixeldust
Absolutely right! Kudos to you for this comment.

Most of MY female friends say they are guys on games and pages... purely because even adults act like damn children on the keyboard....

i mean really? this is a post about the survey and....???
yay it gets turned into so BS political debate/one manship...
I honestly couldnt give two flying superman's labedos about what gender some one is...

what is relevent is that we respect eachother and enjoy the game...
so on that note i suggest a few people take a good long hard look at their personalities...

^_^