Political Correctness,

[phoneyLogic]

Political Correctness, does it make any sense?

What are the reasons one needs to be pc and are there borders?

 

Some people just are anything but pc, some are plain idiots.

But somehow I don't miss it.

 

What's the point of being pc? Discuss!

Edited March 22, 2011 by tortured Tomato

[RZ1029]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yB7J7DYi6M

 

And that, good sirs and madams, is precisely why political correctness exists. People either cannot handle the truth or, more often, they simply do not want to acknowledge it and prefer to give it a nice candy-coated term instead so that it isn't quite so harsh.

 

There is a point to which it is important, as if it is lacking too much, it's pretty much just rude ignorance. However, there's a pathetic point it has reached to where some Americans can't even call a war a war.

 

EDIT: Few Good Men... good movie.

Edited March 22, 2011 by RZ1029

[JimboUK]

Political correctness is used by certain groups to stifle debate and free speech. So far this week I've called a racist and homophobe, my crimes? I pointed out large scale immigration pushes down the wages of the low paid, makes employment harder to find, pushes up house prices and puts a huge strain on public services. I pointed out to middle class Guardian readers via the comments that immigration isn't just about cheap gardeners and child care, lower down the food chain it has caused real hardships. Rather than debate this I was dismissed as a racist. My other crime was to question the actions of a group who got an app removed from Apples App Store, the app was from a Christian group who said it could help cure homosexuality. I don't believe that it can be "cured" or understand why if it possible it would need to be but I did raise the point the surely these people are entitled to their beliefs, by getting the App removed the very people who campaign for tolerance have shown themselves to be very intolerant. Rather than discussing the problems with one groups rights trumping those of another I was called a homophobe and given lectures on the Third Reich.

 

Both the points I raised were valid topics for discussion but as usual the politically correct crowd chose to use insults to shut me up.

 

Read this on the Frankfurt School http://www.politicallyincorrect.me.uk/ and then tell me it doesn't sound awfully familiar.

[Marthos]

It sadly seems, in more and more cases, that political correctness is a tool used by tools who have too much to say and need to feel self important and justify their existance.

 

 

@ Jim

 

Take their insults as a compliment, when they are reduced to insulting you, you have already got the better of them.

[roquefort]

"Read this on the Frankfurt School http://www.politicallyincorrect.me.uk/ and then tell me it doesn't sound awfully familiar. "

 

Well, I did read that. I also took a look at the references given on that site. Two were to other pages on the same website, and the third went to a page featuring a piece by Bill Lind, hardly an impartial commenter, and clearly wielding a political agenda.

 

So I took a look at the Wiki entry for The Frankfurt School, having no textbooks to hand. I thought I'd look for the following; stuff that www.politicallyincorrect.me.uk appears to claim that the Frankfurt School invented:

 

 

The Frankfurt school recommended (amongst other things):

 

1. the creation of racism offences

2. continual change to create confusion

3. the teaching of sex and homosexuality to children

4. the undermining of schools and teachers' authority

5. huge immigration to destroy national identity

6. the promotion of excessive drinking

7. emptying the churches

8. an unreliable legal system with bias against the victim of crime

9. dependency on the state or state benefits

10. control and dumbing down of media

11. encouraging the breakdown of the family

 

..and I couldn't find a single damned thing to confirm any of the above, and it's a big entry. I found a lot of the sort of near-impenetrable jargon you commonly find associated with philosophical institutions and their associates, particularly Marxist ones, but none so opaque that it would have been impossible to discover any of the above hidden behind the big words. So it looks as if the page you referenced is making it all up, or at least misunderstanding, selecting and distorting original source-material out of all recognition.

 

I should probably say that I myself have no time for Marxism, or any other utopianism (libertarianism included), as some kind of ultimate solution to mankind's problems: but I've no time for obfuscation and dishonest analysis either, which the site you posted a link to offers in spades.

 

As for the topic (finally!): you (@Jim_UK) really need to define "political correctness" as you yourself understand it, or how can we agree or disagree with you? It sounds as if you were unfairly attacked in the Guardian comment section, but why not post a link so we can judge for ourselves?

 

For many people, "political correctness" means having some concern for the feelings of others; for example, not using descriptive words for other people that they've indicated that they find offensive. For others though, the term appears to be a blanket-phrase applied to just about everything they hate about the modern world, from hugely significant issues like human rights to annoyance that they can't feel free to use their favourite slang terms for ethnic minorities (a phrase that itself would more than likely be described sneeringly as PC by such people).

 

Just my 2 cents (and some :thumbsup: )

Edited March 23, 2011 by roquefort

[darkfox85]

My experiences with political correctness come from the other side of the spectrum. I’m convinced that political correctness is a completely meaningless term and an illusion used as a smear. Let me explain my position.

 

Occasionally I get into conversations with some rather backward people who will freely use staggering racial slurs and be openly proud with it. However, if you even show so much as a flicker of disdain on your face for such vulgar attitudes (righteous disdain but it will be picked up on) then they will call you out, extending their fingers like Daily Mail reading manifestations of Mothership Zeta’s Abominations and call you “politically correct.”

 

Some arguments that directly or indirectly oppose immigration, homosexuality, or progressive gender roles are rooted in bad reasoning, traditionalism, ignorance, outdated/distorted facts, religious fanaticism, and good old fashioned hatred. If you call out supporters of these positions and try to challenge them, they immediately dismiss you as politically correct and go on about their day. This way they can never be opposed, and this is a serious problem.

 

Once you’ve been branded PC, any argument you try to make is instantly tarnished and as such disregarded by anyone you’d hope to challenge (and I feel racism is something that must be challenged.) Once the politically correct card has been played you’re marked as irrelevant and your views will not get a hearing – and then opponents of political correctness have the audacity to claim they support free speech. Sometimes you don’t even have to wait for them to make the first move. I once pointed out that women shouldn’t put up with being ‘felt up’ at their place of work by lecherous and disgusting men and again the virtue of this position was swept away.

 

My solution to anyone dealing with political correctness (whatever the context) is to ignore it and push the debate. As I said, it’s an illusion. But bearing this in mind, try to image a situation where someone is called “politically correct.”

 

 

p.s., I’m a Guardian reader, and I’m not middle class. How can you determine someone’s social status from a comment thread?

 

Also it’s perfectly reasonable not to tolerate the intolerable. But yes, even the intolerable should have free speech so that good debate can flow. That thing with the app is concerning.

Edited March 23, 2011 by darkfox85

[marharth]

RZ1029 pretty much summed it up.

 

It is used by/for people who simply can't handle the truth.

[grannywils]

Why does it have to be called "political correctness?" Can we not just learn how to speak with dignity and respect. Nevermind, why am I even asking the question? :wallbash:

[JimboUK]

It sadly seems, in more and more cases, that political correctness is a tool used by tools who have too much to say and need to feel self important and justify their existance.

 

 

@ Jim

 

Take their insults as a compliment, when they are reduced to insulting you, you have already got the better of them.

 

That's the point I'm making, they have no coherent argument so all they have is insults.

 

 

"Read this on the Frankfurt School http://www.politicallyincorrect.me.uk/ and then tell me it doesn't sound awfully familiar. "

 

Well, I did read that. I also took a look at the references given on that site. Two were to other pages on the same website, and the third went to a page featuring a piece by Bill Lind, hardly an impartial commenter, and clearly wielding a political agenda.

 

So I took a look at the Wiki entry for The Frankfurt School, having no textbooks to hand. I thought I'd look for the following; stuff that www.politicallyincorrect.me.uk appears to claim that the Frankfurt School invented:

 

 

The Frankfurt school recommended (amongst other things):

 

1. the creation of racism offences

2. continual change to create confusion

3. the teaching of sex and homosexuality to children

4. the undermining of schools and teachers' authority

5. huge immigration to destroy national identity

6. the promotion of excessive drinking

7. emptying the churches

8. an unreliable legal system with bias against the victim of crime

9. dependency on the state or state benefits

10. control and dumbing down of media

11. encouraging the breakdown of the family

 

..and I couldn't find a single damned thing to confirm any of the above, and it's a big entry. I found a lot of the sort of near-impenetrable jargon you commonly find associated with philosophical institutions and their associates, particularly Marxist ones, but none so opaque that it would have been impossible to discover any of the above hidden behind the big words. So it looks as if the page you referenced is making it all up, or at least misunderstanding, selecting and distorting original source-material out of all recognition.

 

I should probably say that I myself have no time for Marxism, or any other utopianism (libertarianism included), as some kind of ultimate solution to mankind's problems: but I've no time for obfuscation and dishonest analysis either, which the site you posted a link to offers in spades.

 

As for the topic (finally!): you (@Jim_UK) really need to define "political correctness" as you yourself understand it, or how can we agree or disagree with you? It sounds as if you were unfairly attacked in the Guardian comment section, but why not post a link so we can judge for ourselves?

 

For many people, "political correctness" means having some concern for the feelings of others; for example, not using descriptive words for other people that they've indicated that they find offensive. For others though, the term appears to be a blanket-phrase applied to just about everything they hate about the modern world, from hugely significant issues like human rights to annoyance that they can't feel free to use their favourite slang terms for ethnic minorities (a phrase that itself would more than likely be described sneeringly as PC by such people).

 

Just my 2 cents (and some :thumbsup: )

 

I can't link anything because the comments were removed, only one was in the Guardian, the other was in the Telegraph. As for proving it you only need to see what is happening around you, can you speak freely? We either have free speech or we don't, once you put limits on what people can say you no longer have free speech. Anyway a bit more on the The Frankfurt School http://www.catholicinsight.com/online/features/article_882.shtml To see it in action you only have to look at the policies and actions of the UKs Labour government between 1997 and 2010.

 

Why do I need to define political correctness? I know what it is and so do you.

[ginnyfizz]

I'm not politically correct either. I disagreed with policies of the Blair government and got a police baton wrapped around my head whilst on a peaceful demonstration concerning that fact. I work in social welfare, but because I do not trot out the "they are all victims of oppression" received wisdom line (due to my experience I know darned well that they are not), I am a heartless monster apparently. Because I love animals and have worked with them but do not happen, as is the politically correct line, to put their welfare above that of humans, and do not believe that it is wrong to either eat them or cull them for other reasons, I have had death threats, despite the fact that I have stood in front of the lorries at Millbay docks in Plymouth taking live sheep for slaughter abroad. (I may eat meat, but it should be exported on the hook, not on the hoof.)

 

Granny, my friend, in your case we know for a fact that it is all about dignity and respect. In my job, I had to take a dignity and respect exam which I passed with flying colours. But sadly, political correctness in action can very often lead to discrimination against anyone who has their own opinions.