Why we can't use Patreon, and talking about donations and doing more to support mod authors

[simtam]

 

I know it sounds outlandish but this is the nub of it. This becomes all the more evident when you look at things like Occulus Rift and HoloLens where you are going to see this kind of argument cropping up all over the place. If you don't believe it then look at how companies are actually buying and copyrighting extinct or near to extinct animal DNA...

The only animal which is copyrighted and gets his copyright extended under lobbying of corporations is a fictional named mouse :) Sorry, but your examples really do sound outlandish and while it might be that they got their way to the top-most judiciary courts in your country, it's not going to change fundaments of copyright laws, which is this manifestation of human creative activity, established in some permanent form. Design a new animal, and its DNA will be copyrightable. Until then, just it's enough to be way about ACTA and that sort of international agreements stuff that's going on in the world.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

In response to post #28802114.

 

 

 

sunshinenbrick wrote:

There is a pretty profound shift in that we are in, generally, uncharted territory here.

Corporations are getting smart in the way that they are trying to 're-write' the rules in how intellectual property currently works.

It has been stated by others that it is not possible to copyright such fundamental things such as lines, letters, colours, languages etc... etc... this is true, however these rules do not yet apply for 'virtual worlds'. That is to say that just by entering the Creation Kit/Skyrim/Bethesda world you are actually entering a completely different system of rules in which you are agreeing that, basically, they are the Creators.

I know it sounds outlandish but this is the nub of it. This becomes all the more evident when you look at things like Occulus Rift and HoloLens where you are going to see this kind of argument cropping up all over the place. If you don't believe it then look at how companies are actually buying and copyrighting extinct or near to extinct animal DNA...

We all play the games and watch the movies... is it really any surprise this kind of insanity is happening??

they are exposed to the risk that the mod contains content owned by a third party, who only allowed that content to be used for playing the mod privately, not showcasing on some commercial blogs.

This is about the only thing that stops the insanity. But only until those third parties are bought out by the hungriest caterpillars.

Then people need to wake up and realize that the Creation Kit is not the only available free to use Developer Tool Kit available.

 

In fact that bridge was long ago past and at the present time there are a whole variety pack of programs available for use that have much more generous terms of use than the Geck or CK do.

 

Since this new reality has obviously crept up on the community as it were...I understand that it may be difficult to realize but there are modders leaving the system as it is for better tools, better terms, and better outcomes.

 

In fact many of my favorite modders have already crossed that bridge as it were.

 

Not too long now and more with the passion and ability will do the same.

 

The current status que relies too much on fresh faces with no skill.

 

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Its not a matter of copyright law.

 

Its a matter of those with the skill realizing that we indeed have it in ourselves to create our own content that is under law ours.

 

That content can then be put into programs and software with tools available that have a minor fee in comparison and then packaged sold as a game, across many platforms beyond just the computer.

 

_____________________

 

Which leads me to my point.

 

What is Bethsada and interested parties going to do about that?

 

In this present Time.

 

We have it in our capacity to team up and create a game that we can sell as ours.

 

Many of us don't even need to go that far as it is currently with the options available to create a meaningful income for ourselves.

 

 

Interesting ideas. I have seen a few others suggest similar sentiments.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

I know it sounds outlandish but this is the nub of it. This becomes all the more evident when you look at things like Occulus Rift and HoloLens where you are going to see this kind of argument cropping up all over the place. If you don't believe it then look at how companies are actually buying and copyrighting extinct or near to extinct animal DNA...

The only animal which is copyrighted and gets his copyright extended under lobbying of corporations is a fictional named mouse :smile: Sorry, but your examples really do sound outlandish and while it might be that they got their way to the top-most judiciary courts in your country, it's not going to change fundaments of copyright laws, which is this manifestation of human creative activity, established in some permanent form. Design a new animal, and its DNA will be copyrightable. Until then, just it's enough to be way about ACTA and that sort of international agreements stuff that's going on in the world.

 

 

Well they are doing some pretty crazy stuff with bio-engineering human embryos to eliminate diseases and such. You should also check out 'spider goats'.

 

What is to say that the companies who provide the technology to accomplish these feats of science will not try to protect their 'property'. In fact its an almost identical scenario to the CK intellectual property argument...

 

Bethesda could try claim that there is no human 'creative' activity because you are using the CK, which automatically makes all creations with it, owned by them. I don't agree with it, but that is what they are basically saying.

 

Someone on another board suggested an interesting idea too, that copyright laws may also be affected (for good or bad) by things like TTIP and the other agreements that were alluded to. A company could potentially sue anybody, including a government, if they impede the creation of profit - so in a modders favour, if they are generating profit they could technically sue Bethesda for stopping them, but on the other hand Beth would argue that this is an infringement on their profit and sue the modder. Again it comes down to fiscal power in the courtroom, except now that courtroom is also for sale!

 

Mind-blowing.

[simtam]

Well, scientific things tend to get protected by patents, as inventions, it is something different than copyright.

Pretty much anyone can sue anyone else, let it be for impeded profits - I know of a lawyer who thinks that everyone should file a lawsuit every once a year, just for the thrill of it - but in whose court would the ball be? A suer, or the suee? Not every courtroom is for sale, and that's where it starts getting too complicated for me to bother with.

[sunshinenbrick]

Well, scientific things tend to get protected by patents, as inventions, it is something different than copyright.

 

Pretty much anyone can sue anyone else, let it be for impeded profits - I know of a lawyer who thinks that everyone should file a lawsuit every once a year, just for the thrill of it - but in whose court would the ball be? A suer, or the suee? Not every courtroom is for sale, and that's where it starts getting too complicated for me to bother with.

 

It is possible to copy an invention.

 

Getting into a courtroom that has not been 'bought' can be expensive in itself, and the very fact that it is not worth the effort or risk is exactly what they are banking on.

[simtam]

Even if it is possible to copy an invention, it is also often possible to apply the invention without copying, and that's what copyright won't cover, while a patent will protect.

 

I don't follow your courtesies, if I may say so. After all, the company are not forced to sue (it's not a trademark which has to be defended, or else it stops being protected as a trademark). They can choose when are where to sue - or they can choose not to sue. It's up to them. What's up to you is only whether you decide to solicit compensation for modding. But first of all, to be that vulnerable, you need to find people willing to shell out some bucks for your work.

[micmic25]

I see. Thank you for keeping us in the loop :)

[sunshinenbrick]

Even if it is possible to copy an invention, it is also often possible to apply the invention without copying, and that's what copyright won't cover, while a patent will protect.

 

I don't follow your courtesies, if I may say so. After all, the company are not forced to sue (it's not a trademark which has to be defended, or else it stops being protected as a trademark). They can choose when are where to sue - or they can choose not to sue. It's up to them. What's up to you is only whether you decide to solicit compensation for modding. But first of all, to be that vulnerable, you need to find people willing to shell out some bucks for your work.

 

There is a lot of crossover between patents and copyrights. In fact that is partly what patents are for, so that people cannot just copy you and claim all the credit. Using registered patents usually incurs some kind of fee which is pretty much the same in effect as the royalties made from having copyrights.

 

I think you underestimate the aggression and innovation by some companies. Repealing patents, sueing people and other companies, toothpicking through the law to find holes is really big business. Companies, even when they lose, will try try and try again, then when it doesn't work they will try it in another country. In fact they will keep trying until they either win or it just becomes too expensive or unviable to do so.

 

While this particular case is about the copyrights within a virtual system (for which there is little written law), I would not be surprised and there are articles supporting it, that computer and gaming companies are actually trying to see how far they can go in patenting and copyrighting the fundamental technologies and methods around modding. Let us not forget that modding is actually short for "modification" which is as old as computers themselves... or even older in the broad sense of the term. There are movements, by some, to try create a world where everything and anything made or kept within it can have a monetary claim to it.

 

There are many people willing to spend lots of money on things they want and companies are willing to charge for things that can be had for free, and many economies feed off this kind of encouraged ignorance.

 

Modding is a choice however the economy and jobs market is changing and people are being forced to find new places for work. Modding is hard work and it is arguable that that work has value in a world that is continuously monetised. I'm not saying the only values are monetary, I believe quite the opposite, but that is unfortunately not the reality facing us.

[kenshin620]

Not directly related to donating but...

 

I thought Bethesda sued Mojang because they ripped off of the Star Constellations in TES?

 

But the internet going "ZOMG NOTCH CANNOT DO WRONG, MINECRAFT 4 LYFE" made it sound like they sued for the word scrolls?

 

hilariously enough isnt Scrolls dead now anyways because of Hearthstone? so all that whining and drama was for nothing thanks to the power of capitalism?

 

Edited September 19, 2015 by kenshin620

[simtam]

I am pretty sure the word "modification" is older than computers. Older then Berne convention, as well.

 

At least we agree that modding is a hard work and it's less obvious how the law is influencing our lifes than what some of the internet users claim :cool: