Enclave pretty much defeated at this point?

[minngarm]

Sorry if its already mentioned, didnt have time to read every reply. But IIRC the brotherhood had built airships to try to reach the east coast to regain the pentagon and other targets, crashed, the survivors then marched the rest of the way, and ended up in DC, and the EASTERN brotherhood. Commanded by Elder Lyon, had a "change of heart" that resulted in a schism from those who couldnt accept the new ideas and those who were ready for a change. The outcasts in FO3 are the "true" BOS basicly, but called outcasts as part of a GNR Propaganda ploy to encourage people to support the eastern BOS. As such the games IMO, mesh together well.

[bwelch55]

Sorry if its already mentioned, didnt have time to read every reply. But IIRC the brotherhood had built airships to try to reach the east coast to regain the pentagon and other targets, crashed, the survivors then marched the rest of the way, and ended up in DC, and the EASTERN brotherhood. Commanded by Elder Lyon, had a "change of heart" that resulted in a schism from those who couldnt accept the new ideas and those who were ready for a change. The outcasts in FO3 are the "true" BOS basicly, but called outcasts as part of a GNR Propaganda ploy to encourage people to support the eastern BOS. As such the games IMO, mesh together well.

 

It's kind of like the midwest's divergence.

 

I personally think that they had went to the Pitt to just get tech and mercilessly slaughtered everyone, man woman and child. That weighed down upon Lyons and I think that's why he changed their mission over time. I have nothing to back this up but the fact that the outcasts didn't leave over night. It took years of minor changs in doctrine to finally make Casadin and a minority of troops to leave.

[minngarm]

Sorry if its already mentioned, didnt have time to read every reply. But IIRC the brotherhood had built airships to try to reach the east coast to regain the pentagon and other targets, crashed, the survivors then marched the rest of the way, and ended up in DC, and the EASTERN brotherhood. Commanded by Elder Lyon, had a "change of heart" that resulted in a schism from those who couldnt accept the new ideas and those who were ready for a change. The outcasts in FO3 are the "true" BOS basicly, but called outcasts as part of a GNR Propaganda ploy to encourage people to support the eastern BOS. As such the games IMO, mesh together well.

 

It's kind of like the midwest's divergence.

 

I personally think that they had went to the Pitt to just get tech and mercilessly slaughtered everyone, man woman and child. That weighed down upon Lyons and I think that's why he changed their mission over time. I have nothing to back this up but the fact that the outcasts didn't leave over night. It took years of minor changs in doctrine to finally make Casadin and a minority of troops to leave.

 

 

Right from what ive seen it leads me to believe the pitt was the first step on his new doctrine on life. I think having knowledge of what the nation once was, and now having traveled acrossed it, combined with his old age, single living daughter born into a life of violence and secrecy has lead him to want to leave behind more than just another brotherhood fortress of secrets and tech. Im sure the pitt was a major factor in the division in the ranks to. A unexpected command that soldiers followed out as they were raised to, yet goes against the codex.

 

As you say it would have taken years, and indeed did in the storyline. and several sub factions have risen from it, not only the overlord of the pitt, but the outcasts, the original brotherhood, and lyons new age brotherhood.

[Malkut]

While far from perfect, the Brotherhood of Steel were generally a benevolent organization in Fallout. They had an attitude towards outsiders, but they weren't isolationist xenophobes. They fought a war against the Vipers and engaged in trade with the Hub. In the original ending, they emerged to help rebuild society with their technology. I assume that's no longer canon, but it's very interesting.

 

I don't really recall them being too deeply in decline in Fallout 2. It's more like they are afraid. I always assumed from what they said that they knew about the Enclave being more advanced than they are, and were staying in their bunkers until the crisis passed, or the Enclave made it's move. You just didn't get the opportunity to interact with them very much.

 

I think the Fallout 3 Brotherhood are actually pretty close to the ones in the original game. They are still arrogant towards outsiders, they still horde technology, they still fight mutants and raiders and the Enclave, and they still send outsiders into radioactive hellholes to accomplish dangerous missions before they accept them into the Brotherhood. Our dearly departed Initiate Reddin just wasn't a Vault-Dweller. :sad:

 

The only difference is that Fallout 3 emphasized the positive aspects of the organization, and Van Buren/New Vegas the negative. I fail to see why both can't be correct.

[marharth]

While far from perfect, the Brotherhood of Steel were generally a benevolent organization in Fallout. They had an attitude towards outsiders, but they weren't isolationist xenophobes. They fought a war against the Vipers and engaged in trade with the Hub. In the original ending, they emerged to help rebuild society with their technology. I assume that's no longer canon, but it's very interesting.

 

I don't really recall them being too deeply in decline in Fallout 2. It's more like they are afraid. I always assumed from what they said that they knew about the Enclave being more advanced than they are, and were staying in their bunkers until the crisis passed, or the Enclave made it's move. You just didn't get the opportunity to interact with them very much.

 

I think the Fallout 3 Brotherhood are actually pretty close to the ones in the original game. They are still arrogant towards outsiders, they still horde technology, they still fight mutants and raiders and the Enclave, and they still send outsiders into radioactive hellholes to accomplish dangerous missions before they accept them into the Brotherhood. Our dearly departed Initiate Reddin just wasn't a Vault-Dweller. :sad:

 

The only difference is that Fallout 3 emphasized the positive aspects of the organization, and Van Buren/New Vegas the negative. I fail to see why both can't be correct.

I wouldn't call the New Vegas one negative...

 

I would say the brotherhood in New Vegas is more of a "lawful" faction. They don't really do anything much bad, its just the elder and a few others that have evil sounding voices honestly.

[Malkut]

I wouldn't call the New Vegas one negative...

 

I didn't really mean negative as in evil, just . . . not positive.

 

My point was that there was originally more to the Brotherhood than:

 

1) Dig a hole

2) Fill it with laser rifles

3) Live there forever

 

The Fallout 3 Brotherhood of Steel have all the same flaws as they had in the original game. They're arrogant, they send you into a radioactive hellhole alone, they don't make any effort to distinguish between Underworld and Feral ghouls during firefights, and there is definitely a dark past with the Pitt. These points just aren't played up in the story.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Malkut

[huntsman2310a]

I don't think the Enclave will come back as a major threat, maybe becoming a technologically advanced branch of the NCR (not very likely).

[Nihilisaurus]

FNV has the brotherhood and NCR fighting, but the game does not say that this is a theater in the war, only that these two parties in one region are, maybe the brotherhood in the Core region and NCR are not fighting, ie this entry in the Wiki was wrote with the Canceled Van Buren story in mind, but it is not specifically stated in the game that the Brotherhood and NCR are fighting in the west. Now Im not saying they arent, they are, but your drawing conclusions from ambigious sources and this argument just shows how anything can be concluded from them.

Nope, the NCR-BoS war is Canon, it's why NCR paper money is worth crap, because it's secured against water and not the (destroyed by Californian BoS) NCR gold reserves.

[Blewvane]

FNV has the brotherhood and NCR fighting, but the game does not say that this is a theater in the war, only that these two parties in one region are, maybe the brotherhood in the Core region and NCR are not fighting, ie this entry in the Wiki was wrote with the Canceled Van Buren story in mind, but it is not specifically stated in the game that the Brotherhood and NCR are fighting in the west. Now Im not saying they arent, they are, but your drawing conclusions from ambigious sources and this argument just shows how anything can be concluded from them.

Nope, the NCR-BoS war is Canon, it's why NCR paper money is worth crap, because it's secured against water and not the (destroyed by Californian BoS) NCR gold reserves.

 

If the Fallout series was real life then gold would be worthless. Food, water, fertile soil, and young women would be some of the most valuable comodities, and a close second only to powerful weapons technology and epuipment. He who has the biggest gun and the will to use it is going to be the one that gives the orders and calls the shots.

What would you rather have in your hand in a post apocolyptic world, a gold bar or a loaded gun? That guy in There Will be Blood said it best, "i drink your milkshake". He drained the oil from the property because he wanted to, and had the means and the will to do it. The man holding the gun has the power, this is a basic principal of the BoS and NCR.

[steamtacular]

The Enclave pretty much got kerbstomped in the West after the Presidents death. The survivors went east to escape that and try to regroup and rebuild while joining up with Enclave forces on the East coast. Unfortunately the East Coast Brotherhood then thoroughly beat the s*** out of them and stole a load of their gear which weakened an already weakened group even further. Most likely the only strong Enclave presence in the Fallout world will either be in the north or south of the country OR in the middle.