Ukraine Civil War Debate Thread

[HeyYou]

The A-10 is more survivable in the event of damage/accident...... Were I a pilot, that would be rather important to me.....

[MotoSxorpio]

If we eliminate NATO and Russian advocates in this debate, who is left with a dog in this hunt?

 

 

 

 

Well, rumor has it that Russia is sending in troops as well as equipment. Not sure how much truth there is to that.......

 

In all reality, this is turning into a proxy war between NATO, and Russia...... The US is sending in A-10s....... which should make the Rebels/Russians a tad nervous..... They are extremely good at taking out tanks.......

 

Meh, the A-10 is overrated. I think the SU-25 is overall a better platform. Though the primary cannon it has is not as good as the GAU-8, but the cannon it has is also practical, unlike the extremely huge GAU-8. The penetration of the GAU-8 is not really useful much when you have all those ATGMs and bombs.

 

 

If we eliminate NATO and Russian advocates in this debate, who is left with a dog in this hunt?

 

You can support a side, just.. don't over do it.

 

Examples of over doing it:

 

"UKRAINE ARE A BUNCH OF NEO NAZIS. THEY HELPED NAZI GERMANY IN WW2"

 

"RUSSIA IS AGGRESSIVE. THEY WANT TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD. WE SHOULD NUKE THEM ALL"

 

etc.

 

---

 

Sources @ OP claims:

 

- T-90A here

 

- Worn T-90A here

 

- Ukrainian VDV T-80BV Training here (notice the VDV emblem)

 

- Azov Battalion using 1944 BS-3 Field gun here

 

- Ukrainian refurbished T-80BV from July 15 2015 here, before being sent to VDV unit

 

Close Air Support disagrees with you.

 

Bigger, meaner, and safer to fly.

 

 

 

*Post Deleted*

I decided that I really don't have a dog in this hunt. My apologies gentlemen, carry on.

This post ^ states my opinion unless Trump and Putin get all buddy up and drink vodkas and beer all night one night to decide the fate of the eastern world. :whistling:

[Harbringe]

Here's a video that may help some understand why the Russians react the way they do in regard to the Ukraine . Back in the 80's when I was attending University I had learned that Russia is the most invaded country in the world not just in recent times but throughout the entirety of history . It has to do with the European plain which transitions into the Russian steppe , it basically acts as the Eurasian superhighway and many peoples have made use of it over the last 2000+ years as a means of invasion. So when talking about the Ukraine keep that in mind and you begin to understand why the Russians are reacting the way they are to the Ukraine situation . NATO expansion into the Ukraine to them ts an existential threat and they will take it as far as they need to feel secure .

 

 

[Mohamed2001]

Wait, I thought the most invaded country was mine? [Egypt]

[Harbringe]

Wait, I thought the most invaded country was mine? [Egypt]

 

Actually Egypt spent long periods being relatively isolated ... a fertile river in middle of desert is difficult to get to ... the only other easily accessed corridor other than the river itself is the Sinai corridor to the Levant Crescent . And that is easily blocked. I too before i learned this had assumed that when it came to being invaded it had to be some country that occupied some keystone landmass thru which you had to travel like Egypt, Iran , Palestine and a few others around the world the meet that criteria but it turned out its Russia simply because they are so accessible to everyone via the European plain/Russian Steppe (rolling open , flat land) . Genghis Khan , Napolean and Hitler all understood this geographical weakness and exploited it.

 

The invaders I mentioned are just recent notables of history , this geographical condition goes back much farther for the Russian people . People of nations have what they call a historical/cultural memory and before they were known as Russians they were called Slav's as were the Ukrainians and Belarus for they were one people , the Slavic peoples. in fact Russia itself began at Kiev and they were called the Kiev-Rus people in the beginning but the word Slav is very interesting when understanding the Russian mindset .. its the root word of the word slave and its based on the fact that for thousands of years people were able to wage war and raids on the Slavic peoples and make slaves of them simply because there were no natural geographical barriers by which to stop them . So when they see an entity like NATO talking about setting up an ABM system in Ukraine (giving them nuclear first strike capabilities) all those historical/cultural fears kick in and they react . Make no mistake when it comes to what is going on all options are on the table for the Russians including WW3.

 

In the US there is this meme by the like of Sen Graham , Sen John McCain and others that if you just get rid of Putin this whole problem will go away , well thats the thinking of a simpleton , the only way to remove this problem is to address the geographical weakness the European Plain causes and the only person who has tried is Putin when back in 2002 he proposed the establishment of a European Security Alliance (military alliance) because in truth nations like Germany and Poland also suffer from the same weakness , they are on the western end of the European Plain . In fact if you were to look at their historical/cultural memory their troubles have come from the east , and its usually not been the Russians . The Roman Empire had been brought down by warlike tribes that had migrated/waged war all the way across the Eurasian superhighway and landed in Germany before they went by names like Visigoths, Ostrogoths , etc and then proceeded to take down the Roman Empire. And they were being pushed out by other people's behind them . This has literally been going on for thousands of years and it took the Russians (Slav's) almost a thousand years to put a stop to .

 

I'm not saying some such nonsense that NATO/US whatever intends to make slaves of the Russians , but if you (anyone) think the Russians would ever allow any other nation/military alliance to come into a position to be able to exploit this geographical weakness (which in truth they are on the verge of) , well thats simply delusional thinking.

 

The ignorance (willful or unwillful) of our leaders is causing us to live in very dangerous times once again . Its 1936/37 and the clock is ticking.

 

As for the following video I don't care what people think , think what you will , but it clearly shows we are sleepwalking to our end.

 

[Mohamed2001]

That's an interesting post. Thanks.