Update on NMM version 0.60 and FAQ

[furious1116]

Yup. Totally wrecked my Skyrim save, as I expected it probably would. Oh well...I wasn't really that far in...only about 70 hours or so. I hadn't even really started the main quest. Just...very irritating that I'm going to have to do that all over again. Normally I would err on the side of caution and click the "No, Keep Things The Way They Were" option but for some reason I decided that I should do this grand Nexus update. And yet my trepidation rang true.

Lesson learned.

 

And no, I am not a pro modder. No, I do not want to do manual installs because it's too easy to screw the installation up. Yes, I should've backed my files up, but I didn't. Shame on me. I'll try the "complete reinstall" method on all my mods. If it doesn't work...back to the beginning I suppose.

Edited September 19, 2015 by furious1116

[Magickingdom]

This looks like one of those things that need to bake a good deal longer before trying. I have a LOT of mods installed. Those big uunp bodyslide conversion files take lots of of time to install. I'm betting with my hug number of bodyslide conversions this would take more like 24 hours, if it worked at all. I may try it later, though with over 2500 hours in skyrim, things are getting boring, with only great new mods keeping interest up.

I wonder if the new version will have all the hazards warnings that come with some of my favorite mods for Mod Organizer? Scary stuff that.

Second, common sense says wait till you ready to do a full ground reinstall of skyrim. An old game install with many many mod installs mixed with a completely new and largely untried system such as v6, spell disaster in my book. The other thing to remember is that you may have mod files that are no longer available. BACK UP your mods first!!!

 

Ok, nuf about skyrim

What about Oblivion? How will this affect other games?

[Theseus12]

In response to post #28805459. #28807169, #28807474, #28807489, #28809154, #28809529, #28810269, #28811029, #28812189, #28812314 are all replies on the same post.

Dark0ne wrote: We have just released version 0.60.4 of NMM that has a number of fixes for bugs reported with the help of users using the bug tracker, the list includes:

Fixed issue causing the migration process to be unable to reinstall some mods. Fixed issue preventing NMM from properly handling the load order for Fallout and Oblivion. Fixed issue causing the Morrowind game mode to hang while performing the mod migration. Fixed issue causing the Morrowind game mode to install files in the wrong folder. Fixed issue preventing NMM from automatically retrieve the Morrowind game path during the startup scan. Fixed issue preventing the ReadMe Manager from properly catching readme files. Fixed issue with the Backup file management.

Now waiting on some brave souls to try it.

Squashnoggin wrote: :ohmy: ..Not Me!!!! :teehee:

LazarusGrimm wrote: Brave soul here: Okay... So... uhm... is there like... a reason for why the speed to delete a mod has been decreased with about 500%? Took me over an hour just to uninstall and delete Raven Castle, while in previous versions it took about 4 - 5 minutes.

Hiwatcher1 wrote: Trying it now. Tried 60.3 last night and it seems to lock up on "overhaul" mods. Crossing my fingers.

Update: Locked up on "Complete Crafting Overhaul". Downloaded NMM 56.1 from my downloads file and game works(so far).

Majic7 wrote: Blindly up-dated to 60.3 yesterday, just clicked buttons. After up-dating Skyrim wouldn't open. NMM showed all 68 mods activated but it wouldn't run, even after re-installing Skyrim and starting over from the beginning. Had to de-activate all mods and re-activate them. Then I could restart the game from the beginning. Today I tried 60.4 on Morrowind and it worked fine. No fiddling around, just worked. 90 mods.

lexx005 wrote: Just updated to 0.60.4 without any issues, but there was no migration process since i had already updated to 0.60.3 yesterday, it just updated the version of NMM.

Squashnoggin wrote: In THAT case..
Squashy was afraid it would be another 'fresh start' type deal. If it's just a standard Nexus "worry-free" update, then, mayybee.. ;)

spiritwolf1 wrote: I used it and maybe I don't understand how it works or something , but all the mods it migrated never showed in my load order. I just reverted back to older version and reloaded new game, it seems to be the best solution for me. I am not blaming anybody for it not working for me. I tried using Mod organizer that was recommended also, and never had any clue how it works. I used obmm( tesmm) before NMM . which had some functions that NMM doesn't have, but I have learned other ways of doing the same thing with tes5edit. I would use NMM 0.60 , if there is a read me file to teach me how it works or a step by step video like the ones Gopher used to make, because they make it easier for me to learn how to use the programs.

hyp3rstrike wrote: Trying it. I've just fresh installed Skyrim.

mwhenry16 wrote: I'm blindly brave in the sense that I'm of the click it and hope crowd, with no tech experience at all. I just like things to work. That being said, I clicked on the update, and after 10 minutes it was all over, and my 50 some mods worked, and Skyrim didn't crash. And that on a Mac running a windows partition. Go figure. Blind luck I bet. I knew I was taking a chance, and I wouldn't have enjoyed spending several hours trying to reconstruct mods, or even to get the game to run.

I have to agree with folks that just because you have big red warning signs, doesn't absolve responsibility. In this day and age an "update" is oft times either immediately necessary, or the user sees the writing on the wall. Perhaps a great deal of what to do before you update to protect your game would have been in order.

considering my laptop refreshed, all my mods are already uninstalled. So what have I to fear?

[archerarcher]

In response to post #28810964. #28812259 is also a reply to the same post.

archerarcher wrote: Profiling ist the reason why I EVER WILL AVOID Mod Organizer.

I am sure many pepole think like me and.

So I think to make our beloved NMM handling mod files the way MO does is the wrong way.

So the only hope is to await a mod manager for Fallout 4 that isn't using profiling.

Sorry, but I am very disappointed.

PeterMartyr wrote: Confused, ////Er, how can you have a Opinion on something THAT YOU NEVER USED.

Let me correct my word:
I've given MO a try, so I HAVE USED it before.

[rubenpaca]

In response to post #28799344. #28799979, #28801029, #28801234, #28802034, #28802934, #28804459, #28804489, #28804644, #28808129 are all replies on the same post.

Vyxenne wrote:

Dear Dark One:

 

Sometimes, I think it is difficult to see the forest because all the trees are in the way. I just read your post above, and would like to offer you a different perspective- MY perspective as a long-time Nexus fan (I have been using my husband's account for years and only recently established my own Nexus account.)

 

You said you were surprised that so many people just blindly accepted the NMM upgrade. This is because over the years, NMM has been largely stable and trouble-free, and a tremendous help to us in managing our mods- and much more user-friendly than MO. Each upgrade has been an improvement over the previous version, and we have received upgrades quite frequently. In other words, based on years of good releases, we trusted you, your expertise and your "product." Based on that trust, when NMM said an upgrade was available, we didn't think twice: click, click, clicketty-click. The outrage now is largely because you betrayed our trust with NMM 0.6.

 

You said that there were warnings in the new version that should have tipped us off that this upgrade was dangerous (my paraphrasing). You're exactly right: the warnings were IN THE NEW VERSION and came only after it was far too late to back out of the upgrade- our Skyrim was already bricked by the time we got the warnings. As someone posted in the Boo thread, the warnings are on the inside of the can. The only choices at that point were [No] or [Cancel] and manually install all your mods (because NMM has already trashed them) or [Yes] to continue and let NMM *try* to fix your system. Epic fail. The warning should have been BEFORE IT WAS TOO LATE TO BACK OUT AND LEAVE OUR PAINSTAKINGLY-ASSEMBLED AND NURTURED WORKING GAME INSTALLATION INTACT. However, in all fairness, even had I received clear warnings of the impending destruction in time to leave my system intact, I probably would've clicked [YES] anyway because I trusted you and never imagined you folks would unleash something so destructive on your fans and supporters. Only in hindsight did it become clear to me what I should have done. The warning should, at the very least, have been clearer about the imminent destruction and included a strong recommendation to quit NMM now and back up our entire game installation.

 

You said in the Boo thread, sarcastically, "...or you could go here [link] for help" but the "here" is undocumented, not linked to from anywhere that I can find, not returned in a Google search for "Nexus Mod Manager Support" and particularly not conspicuously linked to from within the NMM interface as far as I can see (Of course, I have never needed NMM support before, so I have not searched diligently for a support link within NMM, and based on what it just did to me, there is no way I'm going to open NMM 0.6 ever again in my lifetime.) Especially with a "potentially destructive release" like NMM 0.60 that deliberately destroys our working game installation and *hopes to* reconstruct it but has ZERO revert or undo capability, there should have been before-the-destruction warnings. On a so-called "beta" product (0.60 acted more like a pre-alpha release, but I digress), there should be a conspicuous [sUPPORT] button on the NMM Header. We are merely users. We do not spend all day, every day, dealing with The Nexus and/or Nexus Mod Manager. How are we supposed to know about hidden "support" forums when they are not conspicuously linked to from Nexus mod pages and/or the Nexus Forums pages, and not returned in Google searches using the logical search terms?

 

You seem to be complaining that nobody read the "Site News." Where is that? Even when you mentioned it in your post here, you did not provide a link to it. There is no [sITE NEWS] button on this page's header frame, nor is there a "Site News" sticky at http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?. Again, we don't spend all day every day here, and don't know where to go for what unless someone who DOES spend all day every day here helps us by providing conspicuous links.

 

So, half a day after the rogue NMM update acted like malware and destroyed my Skyrim installation with no way to opt out of it until it was already too late and no revert or undo function whatsoever, I STILL do not know how to reach the alleged page that details a recovery process. All I know for sure is that you think these things should be obvious to your users and supporters- but they are not only not obvious, they seem to have been hidden by design- otherwise there would be conspicuous links to them everywhere on the Nexus.

 

Hope this helps clear up some of your bafflement regarding the reasons for the uproar, confusion and outrage resulting from the NMM 0.6 disaster. I, personally, feel blindsided and betrayed by an old friend. It would really be great if you could stop developing NMM for a few days and write a recovery tool to help those of us whose games you trashed revert to the pre-NMM 0.60 condition.

Zettadude wrote: This deserves attention. Exactly how I feel.

Though I'm not completely angry, nor am I going to stop using NMM 0.6, I feel like you summed up what a lot of people are feeling here, including me. Thank you for wording it in a way that is not only attention-grabbing, but also informative.

toonamove wrote: I agreed totally with you and your words and feelings.

Yes a "recovery tool" can be really useful for fixing and helping everyone have their game mess up after the last NMM version update.

I can suggest to adding on the future versions a button for "importing" old NMM versions settings and mods dirs with another button for converting to the new NMM system after have imported users configs, but without touching games dirs or uninstalling mods.

Also adding a automatic backup system before the new installed version is started or starting to made any kind of changes, sounds very necessary, for avoid this kind of mess for everyone, and preserve every users modded games.

Toonamove

Morandone wrote: Yup, my feeelings exactly. Trying to put my old Mods back in the corrupted install. Wipe out all the hardlinks first (or whatever they're called) just to be able to write the data of the wiped out mods back, because explorer hangs when trying to replace them.

A warning for backing up the Skyrim-install befor installing NMM would have been nice and helpful.

GothikaGeist wrote: Wasn't the big red warning in the INSTALLER of NMM 0.60.0? You definitely had the chance to avoid this and be informed as to what it does. Regardless, I still think a TES5Edit-type pop-up prompt with a timer should force you to at least acknowledge the fact that 0.60.0 could potentially break your entire setup.

unhot wrote: Well said ... several hours later and all is not as it was and rather than spending some time relaxing in the wasteland I'm off to something else.

Very disappointed.

Annafire33 wrote: I would also like to add, when a product has been relatively stable and trust worthy, you assume warnings like that, are for the worst case, this will almost never happen type of deal. NOT a this will happen thing. I also agree that the warning should have been the first thing to pop up to give people a chance to say, "hey, i'm not gonna do that" instead of locking us into it with no return. I really hope people pay attention to this post that Vyxenne wrote, because it really speaks for the average user who doesn't work on something all day everyday. Its like, if your writing a story, you know exactly whats going on, because you made it and you work with it all the time, so you take short cuts because you figure its obvious whats happening. When in reality, someone will come along and be like, "what?" I'll leave it there.

Behelit79 wrote: Are there seriously still people not knowing that when there's a major change in a program version (0.50.x -> 0.60.x) there will surely be something important to take into account? I understand what you say about trust but, believe me, no offence, the automaton "click, click, clicketty-click" behaviour will surely have sooner or later negative consequences.

phantompally76 wrote: I'm just glad it didn't prompt to update when loading the software itself.

For me (and I can only speak for myself), the issues with the new build are eclipsed by the unremorseful contempt being shown by those responsible for said build towards the growing number of ad-revenue generators who were caught off guard by what they were getting into. Blaming the end-user for one's own poor communication and poor implementation is not the answer.

SabreWalrus wrote: I think this post nails on the head that the more casual people are probably the worst affected. And I'm not trying to use the word casual as an insult. I'm sure there are lots of people who only have the confidence to mod their games because of an amazing tool like NMM. They trust it and maybe aren't as wary as they should be, especially if it's not given them trouble before.

We're all dumbasses for clicking through and going ahead with it even after seeing the message about the uninstalling of our mods, but still. A warning about what the update contained before clicking "yes" would have been very welcome. Lots of people won't go looking on the forums for an explanation of the update if they're not expecting trouble in the first place.

@ Behelit79 Seriously? I expect major changes from 0.5 to 1.0, from 1.2 to 2.0, or something like that. 0.5 to 0.6 looks like yet another minor beta bugfix.

@ Vyxenne Exactly how I feel. We blindly click on next because we blindly trust.

[prinyo]

 

In response to post #28812769.

 

 

 

potokpro wrote: I updated and reinstalled mods and now my game crashes during loading to main menu you ruined my gameplay !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what you get for failing to read the bold red text when you installed the newest version for NMM, you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

 

 

It was pointed many times how stupid this kind of condescending remarks are.

It simply shows that you yourself did not read the warning under the big red text and simply enjoy bullying people.

The warning says "if you have 5 minutes to spare" to let it reinstall your mods.

It does not say it will actually take hours.

It does not say that instead of reinstalling it will break your mods by missing files, mess scripted mods, disregard the install order (I know that it is supposed to follow the original install order but it did not), it did not say it will mess important files, it did not say it will disregard any changes you might have done to the mods..... and so on.

It did not warn that you should not proceed at all if you have mods that are not installed via NMM (this seems the biggest problem for me now, not sure if I can ever use the new version with such mods)

When I read the warning I was ready to do some fixing so I clicked Yes but in no way was I warned that I'll end up completely reinstalling Skyrim ...

 

The finger-pointing from the both sides is pointless. It simply provokes more finger-pointing and dilutes the actual discussion about finding solutions.

Edited September 19, 2015 by prinyo

[SjoertJansen]

In response to post #28813029.

geknight wrote: A word of caution here.....NMM is the rock upon which the nexus was built. Over the years I have found it far and above the best manager out there. OMOD, the Mod Organiser, even TesModManager all have fallen by the wayside in terms of functionality, appearance, and most importantly reliability. It is very much the glue which holds this community together.

Then yesterday it just WRECKED my game. :D Scripted mods are a mess, none of them installed right. The new profile was configured without regard to the old and when you backed up it CTD'd because stuff was no longer there. I found that the only reliable way to fix scripteds was to redownload the entire mod, as simply reactivating it bypassed the script altogether. I didn't trust the mod folder any more. Orphan ESPs were all over my data folder. With about 160 active mods this made for a FUN day ;)

Now I'm an old hand here, I don't publish, but I've been making my own mods and using others since Morrowind. It took me several hours to get stuff back to normal, though I did see another damned polygon marching through the woods just before I sat down to write this. So I'm gonna be OK. I hadn't backed the directory up for about 100 game hours and have been playing with several new mods or I'd just go back and overwrite the game folder and pickup where I left off. But The less experienced players are surely tearing hair and screaming.

The trust issue here is significant. Any good IT manager will tell you that you don't implement new code till it's ready. Yes it's a BETA. Says so right on the package. Yes there were ISSUES. Said that in the disclaimer. My question here is "What's the rush?" You just gave a whaling lot of your loyal followers a MAJOR headache that they don't need. Were you trying to beat FO4 out? Could you not have waited till the core processes were functioning right to release?

LOL, now modders are guinea pigs by nature. Plug it in and see what happens is a way of life with us. But yesterday was like catching your buddy kissing your girlfriend. A trusted thing betrayed us!! Lots of people will react poorly to this so all I'm asking is that you be more careful. Pooping on someone's day is rarely good business.

And BTW, we all DO appreciate the time and hard work that the nexus crew puts into this site. Most of us aren't going anywhere, but it wouldn't hurt to be more patient next time.

It's been in alpha for 8 months and tested by 40.000 people. The core functionality was fine on their end. I agree that it is better to have released it separately, or install it alongside the older version, and just click move over whenever the user felt ready, not sort of force them to install the new version over the old one, they then had to re-install the old version if they hit cancel. Yet 90% of people seemed to have missed that as well...Reading... Can be a pain I guess. They could also have it make a complete backup of the game folder and install order etc. Waiting until the core processes were functioning is exactly what they did?... It just turned out that too few of those 40.000 tested a scenario found on the wrecked games listed here.

What I fail to understand though, is that apparently no-one backs up their stuff before agreeing on an update of a beta program. A function I feel should be implemented into the tool. Perhaps still should for any reasonable upgrade in the future, so the user is forced to make a backup. It's a shame though that today we need to hold peoples hands through everything. Even as a mod author. They never seem to blame themselves.... This isn't the first NMM update that causes issues (Really it isn't!! ). It just didn't happen in the last 1-1.5 years or so, because the program didn't really change much. I think that updating any program like this without a proper game folder backup is stupid. Especially when you move towards a completely new mechanism. If people didn't know 0.6 wasn't a simple cumulative update than they didn't read much. Here things could certainly be better though! More stronger warnings would have helped, with UAC and similar people have gotten used to clicking through stuff mindlessly. Not that they should, but it happens.

Still, it is a beta, you trust it too much? Beta is beta, any update can wreck things up. Which is why people should make backups! Edited September 19, 2015 by SjoertJansen

[geknight]

In response to post #28813029. #28813724 is also a reply to the same post.

geknight wrote: A word of caution here.....NMM is the rock upon which the nexus was built. Over the years I have found it far and above the best manager out there. OMOD, the Mod Organiser, even TesModManager all have fallen by the wayside in terms of functionality, appearance, and most importantly reliability. It is very much the glue which holds this community together.

Then yesterday it just WRECKED my game. :D Scripted mods are a mess, none of them installed right. The new profile was configured without regard to the old and when you backed up it CTD'd because stuff was no longer there. I found that the only reliable way to fix scripteds was to redownload the entire mod, as simply reactivating it bypassed the script altogether. I didn't trust the mod folder any more. Orphan ESPs were all over my data folder. With about 160 active mods this made for a FUN day ;)

Now I'm an old hand here, I don't publish, but I've been making my own mods and using others since Morrowind. It took me several hours to get stuff back to normal, though I did see another damned polygon marching through the woods just before I sat down to write this. So I'm gonna be OK. I hadn't backed the directory up for about 100 game hours and have been playing with several new mods or I'd just go back and overwrite the game folder and pickup where I left off. But The less experienced players are surely tearing hair and screaming.

The trust issue here is significant. Any good IT manager will tell you that you don't implement new code till it's ready. Yes it's a BETA. Says so right on the package. Yes there were ISSUES. Said that in the disclaimer. My question here is "What's the rush?" You just gave a whaling lot of your loyal followers a MAJOR headache that they don't need. Were you trying to beat FO4 out? Could you not have waited till the core processes were functioning right to release?

LOL, now modders are guinea pigs by nature. Plug it in and see what happens is a way of life with us. But yesterday was like catching your buddy kissing your girlfriend. A trusted thing betrayed us!! Lots of people will react poorly to this so all I'm asking is that you be more careful. Pooping on someone's day is rarely good business.

And BTW, we all DO appreciate the time and hard work that the nexus crew puts into this site. Most of us aren't going anywhere, but it wouldn't hurt to be more patient next time.

SjoertJansen wrote: It's been in alpha for 8 months and tested by 40.000 people. The core functionality was fine on their end. I agree that it is better to have released it separately, or install it alongside the older version, and just click move over whenever the user felt ready, not sort of force them to install the new version over the old one, they then had to re-install the old version if they hit cancel. Yet 90% of people seemed to have missed that as well...Reading... Can be a pain I guess. They could also have it make a complete backup of the game folder and install order etc. Waiting until the core processes were functioning is exactly what they did?... It just turned out that too few of those 40.000 tested a scenario found on the wrecked games listed here.

What I fail to understand though, is that apparently no-one backs up their stuff before agreeing on an update of a beta program. A function I feel should be implemented into the tool. Perhaps still should for any reasonable upgrade in the future, so the user is forced to make a backup. It's a shame though that today we need to hold peoples hands through everything. Even as a mod author. They never seem to blame themselves.... This isn't the first NMM update that causes issues (Really it isn't!! ). It just didn't happen in the last 1-1.5 years or so, because the program didn't really change much. I think that updating any program like this without a proper game folder backup is stupid. Especially when you move towards a completely new mechanism. If people didn't know 0.6 wasn't a simple cumulative update than they didn't read much. Here things could certainly be better though! More stronger warnings would have helped, with UAC and similar people have gotten used to clicking through stuff mindlessly. Not that they should, but it happens.

Still, it is a beta, you trust it too much? Beta is beta, any update can wreck things up. Which is why people should make backups!

Maybe the beta crowd had the same migration issues back in January that we all saw yesterday, but as the trial wore on the conversion issues had largely been left behind. I do find it odd that .60 had to delete and reinstall everything rather than just logging the current setup. That seems to be the root of the problem there.

and yeah :D I got caught with my backup down .. but I've murdered my own game so often trying weird stuff that I recover very well. I SHOULD have just rolled the game folder onto my backup drive as usual, but really NMM updates are usually not game breakers and I just did it. As a famous comedian often says... "Hold my beer and watch this." O_O

This does seem to be a case where a mandatory backup by the up date itself was warranted, but modded game installations can get to be so big that many people will have space issues and wreck because of that. As far as base functionality goes the failure of scripted mods to both get garbled on conversion AND not work properly (You have to reacquire the file after deleting it every time you want the script to execute) should have kept the project in beta till this issue was resolved
Edited September 19, 2015 by geknight

[Wodro]

i'm sorry, but what's the point of having mod profiles if they don't use separate saves?

am i completely lost or something? anybody?

[marmotte]

Nexus is an important site in the world wide. I mean not only UK and USA and english spokers.

 

I think an update with a simple sentence and caution could be better.

 

exemple: ''Beware, you will do a major update! Make a complete back up of all and take one day to reinstal all.''

 

simple