Update on NMM version 0.60 and FAQ

[nahuelst]

In response to post #29107214.

Alkorri wrote: I'm one of those who mildly scrutinized the red-text disclaimer warning me about the update uninstalling all my mods, before I trustingly agreed. Found out later after the reinstalling process that it left out about 10 different mods, so I had to chase those esps down. Then I found out about the missing textures - not all, but some! And my overwritten categorized favorites settings..

All in all, it took about four hours work before I could play again. Learned later that I'm apparently one of the lucky ones ;D

Still, the update could have been worse and I'm glad I went ahead with it. Thank you, NMM, for all your hard work! I know it couldn't have been easy considering the storm that went down after. In retrospect, yeah, I definitely should have read the article before hitting that big red Yes button ;)

Masochist? grateful they destroy the game ??

GOOGLE

[nahuelst]

In response to post #29098379. #29113709, #29115909 are all replies on the same post.

bben46 wrote:

Updating is not required. You can still use the older version if you choose. Not supported just means the older version will no longer be getting regular updates as we just don't have the staff available to keep up with multiple versions. No updates also means it will not be updated to work with FO4 or any other new games that come out.

 

I still use the old OBMM to manage Oblivion, Even though it is supported by NMM. running them both has not been a problem. I just don;t use the NMM for Oblivion.

 

You can use both the old and new versions - rename one of them ( preferably the old one as renaming the new version will cause problems with future updates) And install the new in a different folder ( having both in the same folder will cause confusion) The new version will try to find your older games, just let it, it is not going to make any changes until you actually open that game using the new version, and then it will ask permission before doing anything.

 

The big lesson here is don't just click yes to every pop up you see. READ them, Then wait and let what you read percolate through your brain cells for a minute before doing something you might regret.

phantompally76 wrote: Why are you being so condescending? People are 100x more upset by the attitude of the moderators (as well as the site owner) throughout all this than they are about having to troubleshoot issues with the update. You're supposed to rise above your detractors, not stoop below their level. It's just so unprofessional and off-putting. By now you guys HAVE to realize that this should have been handled differently, and that instead of screaming "You're to blame because you didn't read closely enough", you should be saying "We're sorry for the inconvenience, and are working hard to correct the issue" like any other professional business that isn't actually trying to go bankrupt.

MDeckman wrote: @bben46 my apologies for blowing up your posting here, but I'm afraid this is necessary because I've seen too many people blasting the moderators about this update and I feel it's time that the record be set straight.
@phantompally76:

He's being condenscending because you and everybody else that are blasting the NMM team and the moderators are the ones that aren't doing your due diligence. You and everyone else claim that you haven't had ample warning. You claim that your skyrim install is ruined and you claim that you'll leave skyrim forever because of NMM destroying your game saves. The reality is, is that if you had read the warnings (I've linked them below), and performed backups of your save files, plugin lists and game data in general (there is a folder were NMM stores all plugins, I backed that folder up) You would have had everything safe guarded and when your install did crap out, you would simply reinstall, reorder, throw the save data into the appropriate folder and away you'd go gaming again.

Instead, you all clicked without thinking, without reading and your install blew up. You have absolutely no room or right to go to the moderators and shout at them for not giving warnings or explaining things. So bben46 is in the right for that tone because you and everybody else ignored everything then complained.

I read 95% of everything posted, backed up my saves, my mods and plugins and after everything was said and done, 1 mod didn't work. I looked at the mod's page, reported said issue that the NMM was giving me and within 72 hours the mod author had a work around. I applied said work around and now that mod is back in working order.

I also went into the fray expecting 100% failure. I got less than 1% failure on my end. Do you know the actual failure rate of the new version of 0.60 when it was released to beta? less than One (1) half percent 40/8200=.00487. That's a fantastic failure rate when completely changing the foundation of how it works mods.

I congratulate the moderators and the NMM team on their efforst and releasing so many patches so quickly. In-fact, I'm checking back to the site at least once a day looking for a new version to be released so that another bug that i haven't encountered is fixed and won't affect me.

Warning and Introduction: NMM 0.60 alpha release with profiling, ready for testing 1/23/2015 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12414/?

Warning: Nexus Mod Manager V 0.60 alpha : Upgrading From v0.53 2/10/2015 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12424/?

Warning: NMM 0.60 beta released with profiling 9/17/2015 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12569/?

Warning: Update on NMM Version 0.60 and FAQ 9/18/2015 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12574/?

4 news posts plus those BIG RED LETTERS in the install proceedure. Not enough warning? Then you shouldn't be using mods.

Even an arrogant attitude allowed ?. You are not my friends, as I agreed, as we continue to use the you use, annoy me.

GOOGLE
Y aún se permiten una actitud arrogante?. Ustedes no son mis amigos, mientras me convenga, los seguiré usando como nos usan ustedes, me fastidian.

[nahuelst]

In response to post #29098379. #29113709, #29115909, #29120684 are all replies on the same post.

bben46 wrote:

Updating is not required. You can still use the older version if you choose. Not supported just means the older version will no longer be getting regular updates as we just don't have the staff available to keep up with multiple versions. No updates also means it will not be updated to work with FO4 or any other new games that come out.

 

I still use the old OBMM to manage Oblivion, Even though it is supported by NMM. running them both has not been a problem. I just don;t use the NMM for Oblivion.

 

You can use both the old and new versions - rename one of them ( preferably the old one as renaming the new version will cause problems with future updates) And install the new in a different folder ( having both in the same folder will cause confusion) The new version will try to find your older games, just let it, it is not going to make any changes until you actually open that game using the new version, and then it will ask permission before doing anything.

 

The big lesson here is don't just click yes to every pop up you see. READ them, Then wait and let what you read percolate through your brain cells for a minute before doing something you might regret.

phantompally76 wrote: Why are you being so condescending? People are 100x more upset by the attitude of the moderators (as well as the site owner) throughout all this than they are about having to troubleshoot issues with the update. You're supposed to rise above your detractors, not stoop below their level. It's just so unprofessional and off-putting. By now you guys HAVE to realize that this should have been handled differently, and that instead of screaming "You're to blame because you didn't read closely enough", you should be saying "We're sorry for the inconvenience, and are working hard to correct the issue" like any other professional business that isn't actually trying to go bankrupt.

MDeckman wrote: @bben46 my apologies for blowing up your posting here, but I'm afraid this is necessary because I've seen too many people blasting the moderators about this update and I feel it's time that the record be set straight.
@phantompally76:

He's being condenscending because you and everybody else that are blasting the NMM team and the moderators are the ones that aren't doing your due diligence. You and everyone else claim that you haven't had ample warning. You claim that your skyrim install is ruined and you claim that you'll leave skyrim forever because of NMM destroying your game saves. The reality is, is that if you had read the warnings (I've linked them below), and performed backups of your save files, plugin lists and game data in general (there is a folder were NMM stores all plugins, I backed that folder up) You would have had everything safe guarded and when your install did crap out, you would simply reinstall, reorder, throw the save data into the appropriate folder and away you'd go gaming again.

Instead, you all clicked without thinking, without reading and your install blew up. You have absolutely no room or right to go to the moderators and shout at them for not giving warnings or explaining things. So bben46 is in the right for that tone because you and everybody else ignored everything then complained.

I read 95% of everything posted, backed up my saves, my mods and plugins and after everything was said and done, 1 mod didn't work. I looked at the mod's page, reported said issue that the NMM was giving me and within 72 hours the mod author had a work around. I applied said work around and now that mod is back in working order.

I also went into the fray expecting 100% failure. I got less than 1% failure on my end. Do you know the actual failure rate of the new version of 0.60 when it was released to beta? less than One (1) half percent 40/8200=.00487. That's a fantastic failure rate when completely changing the foundation of how it works mods.

I congratulate the moderators and the NMM team on their efforst and releasing so many patches so quickly. In-fact, I'm checking back to the site at least once a day looking for a new version to be released so that another bug that i haven't encountered is fixed and won't affect me.

Warning and Introduction: NMM 0.60 alpha release with profiling, ready for testing 1/23/2015 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12414/?

Warning: Nexus Mod Manager V 0.60 alpha : Upgrading From v0.53 2/10/2015 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12424/?

Warning: NMM 0.60 beta released with profiling 9/17/2015 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12569/?

Warning: Update on NMM Version 0.60 and FAQ 9/18/2015 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12574/?

4 news posts plus those BIG RED LETTERS in the install proceedure. Not enough warning? Then you shouldn't be using mods.

nahuelst wrote: Even an arrogant attitude allowed ?. You are not my friends, as I agreed, as we continue to use the you use, annoy me.

GOOGLE
Y aún se permiten una actitud arrogante?. Ustedes no son mis amigos, mientras me convenga, los seguiré usando como nos usan ustedes, me fastidian.

Ah, ok, I'll go do a course to use Nexus, delirious.

[nahuelst]

In response to post #29088194.

DeCiWolf wrote: Simple solution: Use Mod Organizer Kappa

On a serious note. Awesome job to the devs over at Nexus for trying to make a great update for Nexus Mod Manager! Must be hard work and lots of problems.

Ignore the haters and keep on keeping on.

Good attitude ... yes, he continues to make disaster that nobody asked.

[nahuelst]

In response to post #29077604.

ThreeBlessings wrote: Just offering some hopefully helpful suggestions for the hardworking NMM team here.

0.6x is a completely different animal - in structure, in theory, in implemtation, and in usage. As such is really should be (should have been) a completely new offering (NMM2). In engineering, if you make major changes to form-fit-function, you create new part number/product offering/etc. I get the direction of the new software version, but it should not be offered as an "upgrade", and it certainly should not be hooked into the "check for new versions" piece of the 0.5x NMM releases.

The above specifically avoids all the undo pain being experienced by those users who either didn't know they were signing up for a nuke and replace, or did know and still experienced unrecoverable scenarios that nuked their install/mods.

Yes, backup, read, beta, etc.... still, this is the ideal roll-out path:

1) NMM 0.5x retired, no more updates (no prompts from the software, except to say you are now on a dead branch that isn't going to be updated)
2) NMM2 0.1x announced - is available as a SEPARATE install file, old 0.5x still there but with a note "this is the old version that we won't be updating/supporting any more". NNM2 installer, before it does anything presents big fat "don't install this unless you are ready to start from scratch, mkay? Totally different beast that will nuke your current setup, mkay?" click here if you are willing to start over from scratch > Got it, awesome... proceed...

General rule being that your user base varies from click-install-play people to hardcore codemonkey propeller head jockeys. It seems more than apparent in reading the forums and these posts that the chosen roll out strategy is suffering from not having created a new software offering and instead attempting an upgrade from Windows 95 to Linux. This has left all the click-install-play types nuked and pissed and feeling betrayed. Responding with "WTF RTFM!! ROFLMAO" just makes that situation worse.

My suggestion is to bite the bullet and rename NMM 0.6x to NMM2 and isolate the old NMM so its clearly in a different stream and can't be had unless you consciously choose it knowing it may nuke your stuffs.

That said - I thank you for all your hard work. I have learned so much using your software and it has extended my enjoyment of Skyrim literally for years. I will not be installing 0.6 because like soo many others my Skyrim setup is just the way I want it and I don't WANT to mess with it. for FO4 I MAY install the new one, but it will be a separate instance. Following points 1 and 2 above would make that a cleaner delineation.

Wishing you the best!! (Truly!)

Excellent commentary.

[Drache198]

Considering that I've tweaked quite a few mods to my liking and it literally took me days to make the game run the way I want, after converting esps to esms and building new esps based on that, running patchers then installing some more mods, tweaking a bit and running even more patchers, changing textures, remodelling stuff, rewriting scripts, etc...

 

...no, I won't be doing all that work again just because the modmanager changed to a new system. And, if I lost my setup because of carelessly clicking "yes", I'd probably be sending death curses, too.

 

On second thought... I could maybe put my whole data-folder into a zip file, call it my old setup and install it using the new modmanager. I might come back to this if I can't download mods with the 0.5x manager anymore.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Drache198

[nahuelst]

In response to post #29077084. #29081804 is also a reply to the same post.

Tony1l wrote: after using NMM 0.5.3 beta decided to upgrade to the new version, all 62 of my Skyrim mods were loaded with NMM 0.5.3 from Nexus website but the new version imported only 6 of them. Shame on the developers... luckily still had the original NMM setup file and when back to using it again, SkyUII was borked, multiple other issues, but spent a couple of hours reading forums posts and fixing them.

TLDR: Updated NMM after years of using the same version, couldn't have gone worse so reinstalled old version. I will still use Nexus for mods but avoiding all future updates to NMM.

Azulyn wrote: shame on the developers? lol'd

No man, blame the mickey mouse

[nahuelst]

In response to post #29061544. #29115209 is also a reply to the same post.

GorrWarrior wrote: When I get a new HD I partition it. Like, 100 gigs for C drive...OS games progs etc. Then I use the rest for D drive and store all my data on there including acronis drive images. I don't know if anyone else does this anymore. I remember using Fdisk in the old days lol. There have been numerous times I have messed up my game for whatever reason...but acronis saved the day..just a suggestion to guys that lost their games..make a whole partition back up.

scegielski wrote: This! 100% agree. If you are not backing up your game directory, then a disaster like this is bound to happen one way or another, sooner or later. Acronis is an awesome all around backup tool and works great for this purpose. In addition to the the game direcory, I also include in the backup:
- NMM's game directory which has the "Install Info" and "Mods" directories
- "My Games" which has your save games and preference ini files
- "C:\Users\<your name>\AppData\Local\<game> (this has plugins.txt and/or loadorder.txt depending on the game)

The cool thing about Acronis is that you can make progressive backups where only the changes are backed up. Disk space is cheap and doing this is definitely worth it in my opinion.

Beautiful, so we should use our precious disk space if Nexus continues to commit blunders? by the way ... will be mistakes?


GOOGLE

[nahuelst]

In response to post #29046409.

bben46 wrote:

Please. commenting in a forum is not a bug report. if you really want to help, and not just rant - please use the bug report that we set up just for this reason. If you don't know how to report a bug, start here: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/460590-reporting-bugs/

 

This is not something new we started just for this version, it has always been a part of the Open Beta from the beginning when the very first version of NMM beta was released. This is how we track and fix problems, and how nearly every software development process works.

 

If you do not use the bug tracker, you are just ranting and not reporting bugs. :pinch:

Beta open forever, because it suits you, you are a bad people are kind angels now ... and that the user is s#*&#33;. To think that in a survey I gave a favorable opinion to you, and are only a pack of useless and vociferous against the user characters. My time is as valuable as yours. Is reprehensible attitude they have taken. Obviously I advise no one to use your damn installer if there are bad users, you behave like some lunatics. 6.0 very dangerous virus, do not bother if I download ... hjmm

GOOGLE TRANSLATOR

Beta abierta para siempre, porque les conviene a ustedes, son una mala gente ustedes son angeles bondadosos ahora... y que el usuario se cague. Pensar que en una encuesta les di una opinión favorable a ustedes, y son solamente una jaúria de personajes inútiles y vociferantes en contra del usuario. Mi tiempo es tan valioso como el de ustedes. Es repudiable la actitud que han tomado. Obviamente que no aconsejaré a nadie que use su maldito instalador, si hay usuarios malos, ustedes se comportan como unos energumenos. Versión 6.0 virus muy peligroso, no moleste si lo descargo...hjmm

GOOGLE TRANSLATOR

[Drache198]

In response to post #29046409. #29125669 is also a reply to the same post.

bben46 wrote:

Please. commenting in a forum is not a bug report. if you really want to help, and not just rant - please use the bug report that we set up just for this reason. If you don't know how to report a bug, start here: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/460590-reporting-bugs/

 

This is not something new we started just for this version, it has always been a part of the Open Beta from the beginning when the very first version of NMM beta was released. This is how we track and fix problems, and how nearly every software development process works.

 

If you do not use the bug tracker, you are just ranting and not reporting bugs. :pinch:

nahuelst wrote:
Beta open forever, because it suits you, you are a bad people are kind angels now ... and that the user is s#*&#33;. To think that in a survey I gave a favorable opinion to you, and are only a pack of useless and vociferous against the user characters. My time is as valuable as yours. Is reprehensible attitude they have taken. Obviously I advise no one to use your damn installer if there are bad users, you behave like some lunatics. 6.0 very dangerous virus, do not bother if I download ... hjmm

GOOGLE TRANSLATOR

Beta abierta para siempre, porque les conviene a ustedes, son una mala gente ustedes son angeles bondadosos ahora... y que el usuario se cague. Pensar que en una encuesta les di una opinión favorable a ustedes, y son solamente una jaúria de personajes inútiles y vociferantes en contra del usuario. Mi tiempo es tan valioso como el de ustedes. Es repudiable la actitud que han tomado. Obviamente que no aconsejaré a nadie que use su maldito instalador, si hay usuarios malos, ustedes se comportan como unos energumenos. Versión 6.0 virus muy peligroso, no moleste si lo descargo...hjmm

GOOGLE TRANSLATOR

Well, I can hardly file a bug report for something I didn't test myself. But I can see where the new version went wrong.

The biggest problem is that the modmanager assumed that the modmanager is the only entity changing game data. Since patchers are a thing this is a miscalculation even for more casual users. And then there are users who make changes to their mods using the creation kit, nifskope and what else. Not taking these changes into account when asking the user to reinstall all their mods was a big blunder.