Indigoblade Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) This the ORC Discussion Thread! Please read the parts you care about and give me some feedback or your ideas to make it better Once again, Bethesda blessed us with such a wide variety of ways to play our characters in many different situations. Unfortunately this still was not translated to basic NPC enemies TO AN EXTENT. Gunners, the Forged, Coursers, Triggermen and the ghoul raiders are very nicely varied NPC enemies, but more can be done for Raiders. This is where I come in. As with OBIS for Skyrim, I shall reshape the Raiders into the hardened badasses that I can finally satisfy my bloodlust upon. My take on Raiders: Great low level enemies. Easy to kill, but players will get killed by stray shots or grenades. Has lots of variety of looks, weapons, and chems to use. Comes in groups of 3 - 15, the variance of numbers are very surprising considering Fallout 3 Raiders came at at the most 6. Raiders drop off around level 30 at ALL difficulties, since the spawning of Raider Veterans (the strongest variants I have seen) are far and few in between. Around level 30, players have built their characters with some kind of damage supplement (weapon mods, damage mods, ect.), which allows them to one shot the first 2 tiers of Raiders without any issues. Lower level Raiders spawn WAY too much, even the Super Mutants are better at showing off variety than the Raiders. Summary of the mod's goals: - Strict "classes" for Raiders, each with it's own tier list. I have 24 classes total that I want to make, more if I get any more good ideas - Add in 3 more tiers to the original 7 tiers that I have seen for a total of 10 tiers. This is to add a greater variance and difficulty to the raiders, as well as adding in fun new names to keep things fresh at all times. - More variety of gear, add in other armor pieces that Raiders don't normally wear such as synth armor pieces or DC armors to add further variety and give the Raiders an even better scavenger look when mixed together. - Create a level list for Raiders, it seems that some areas have raiders set for lower levels than others. For the sake of replayability, I want to at least allow these areas to spawn higher level Raiders when appropriate. - Add in more faces for Raider pool including Ghoul faces - Create bosses for the boss level list Raider Classes: Including the original Raider Tier list, I will adding in 23 new types for a total of 23 into the Wasteland. Unlike OBIS that had many different gangs workng together with different specialties, this mod will instead have Raiders that are specialized in something to contribute to the groups that they are in, they are not parts of different groups. Raider types and tier lists are listed in this spoiler if you are interested: Raider Scum Typical raider. No specialties but are varied in gear, making them impossible to predict Names: Scum, Dreg, Psycho, Scavver, Waster, Survivalist, Veteran, Elite, Champion, Lord Boss: Derek the Scarred Raider Goons Fat raiders, can take a beating before being put down. Wears metalic armor to cushion bullets Names: Goon, Meathead, Hood, Brute, Tough, Heavy, Tank, Bruiser, Troll, Ogre Boss: Og the Giant Raider Scamps Sharpshooting raiders that prefers longer ranged rifles and are more frail than their cohorts. Names: Scamp, Cheat, Wretch, Lowlife, Outcast, Snake, Knave, Rogue, Villan, Renegade Boss: Rat Mikky Raider Punks Muscular raiders that charge into battle with melee weapons, strikes very hard if reaches their foes Names: Punk, Bully, Rascal, Thug, Scrapper, Ruffian, Gasher, Warrior, Duelist, Hellion Boss: Alice the Gladiator Raider Squatters Raiders that constantly attempt to get into close range to use shotguns on targets, extremely dangerous for close quarter combat. Names: Squatter, Meddler, Outsider, Instigator, Obtruder, Interloper, Prowler, Trespasser, Intruder, Infiltrator Boss: Boomstik Raider Drifters Raiders that specializes in automatic weapons, making them deadly in many situations Names: Drifter, Tramp, Straggler, Vagrant, Vagabond, Wayfarer, Wanderer, Nomad, Adventurer, Ranger Boss: Slider Raider Looters Several raiders got lucky and found some laser weapons to use on their enemies, In fear of accidentally burning themselves from their own weapons they also wear armor to protect themselves from energy weapons Names: Looter, Forager, Spoiler, Pilferer, Pillager, Freebooter, Plunderer, Ransacker, Marauder, Ravager Boss: Picker Pete Raider Convicts Criminals turned into raiders for crimes against the innocents of the Commonwealth, specializes in various side arms from their criminal pasts. Names: Convict, Culprit, Fugitive, Felon, Criminal, Bandit, Gunslinger, Desperado, Brigand, Malefactor Boss: Billy of the West Raider Vandals Raiders that love big weapons, are as much a threat to their allies as they are to their foes. Names: Vandal, Savage, Destroyer, Defiler, Wrecker, Ransacker, Mutilator, Despoiler, Demolisher, Blight Boss: Vok Raider Quacks Several raiders are very proficient with stimpacks and can heal up full from the brink of death. Names: Quack, Survivor, Curer, Mender, Healer, Medic, Bones, Doc, Surgeon, Physician Boss: Doctor Hanes Raider Packrats When raiders find great loot from a recent attack, they adorn themselves with their new treasures, making them a bit more dangerous and a bigger target to those who want what they have. Names: Packrat, Magpie, Finder, Saver, Shark, Gatherer, Hoarder, Collector, Churl, Miser Boss: King Midas Raider Junkies These raiders are so high that they ignore the pain of crippling limbs while fighting Names: Junkie, Addict, Booster, Freak, Hound, Fanatic, Maniac, Burnout, Fiend, Demon Boss: Basehead Raider Bouncers Though the strongest raiders do wear Power Armor, some Raiders are given Power Armor for the sole purpose of defending the others from the more dangerous threats of the Commonwealth. Names: Bouncer, Minder, Muscle, Picket, Sentry, Bodyguard, Protector, Convoyer, Warden, Praetorian Boss: Sam the Wall Raider Hotheads The more unstable raiders use fire to burn thier enemies, as well as any other raiders that talk bad of their crazy conspiracies. Names: Hothead, Striker, Rioter, Agitator, Radical, Rebel, Anarchist, Hellraiser, Firebrand, Purifier Boss: Pyro Pat Raider Nuts Raiders that love explosives, they use multiple types of grenades besides the conventional ones Names: Nut, Scatterbrain, Loon, Screwball, Crank, Kook, Crackpot, Flake, Fool, Lunatic Boss: Mister Boom Raider Killers Raiders that specializes in disappearing in plain sight, they use Stealthboys to prevent their enemies from seeing them. They can be anywhere at any time Names: Killer, Murderer, Assailant, Dropper, Assassin, Slayer, Slaughterer, Exterminator, Eliminator, Executioner Boss: Paydirt Raider Cultists Raiders that are firm believers of Atom, but realized that to survive in Atom's glow, they must take what they need to survive. Names: Cultist, Zealot, Acolyte, Monk, Preacher, Friar, Priest, Vicar, Reborn, Divine Boss: Abbot Foster Raider Drolls There are plenty of Raiders that do well in the sunshine, these Raiders are just happy to pillage and plunder during the day. Names: Droll, Joker, Cutup, Prankster, Clown, Jester, Trickster, Wisecracker, Comic, Farceur Boss: Smiley Raider Biles These Raiders are just horrible to fight at night, they seem to thrive in battle under the moonlight Names: Bile, Fury, Scorn, Dread, Dire, Rancor, Umbrage, Scourge, Malice, Spite Boss: Hate Hate Raider Scouts Fast moving Raiders that quickly close the gap to their prey. Strikes with small weapons quickly Names: Scout, Sprinter, Runner, Chaser, Spotter, Pursuer, Hunter, Trapper, Precursor, Vanguard, Harbinger Boss: Matt the Snake Raider Spooks Slow moving Raiders that hiss and moan like Feral Ghouls. Deals tons of damage if they reach their targets with their massive weapons Names: Spook, Ghost, Haunt, Shade, Shadow, Phantom, Specter, Wraith, Poltergeist, Eidolon Boss: Banshee Raider Peddlers Raiders that make a living off of various chems and medical supplies. Occasionally wears radiation suits while creating more product. Names: Peddler, Pusher, Dealer, Supplier, Bagman, Trader, Trafficker, Merchant, Wholesaler, Broker Boss: Candyman Raider Polluters Raiders that are so dirty that their attacks actually poisons their enemies Names: Polluter, Poisoner, Infector, Tainter, Befouler, Contaminator, Festerer, Rotter, Corrupter, Blight Boss: Noxious Prince Raider Boxers Raiders that focus mainly on fighting only with their fists, catching foes off guard with their frenzied attacks Names: Boxer, Grappler, Scrapper, Brawler, Claw, Hook, Pincer, Fang, Talon, Manus Boss: Mr. Fisto Unfortunately, like some of the Raider Quack tiers, I am reaching for names :sad: if you have better ones that can work for them or others just tell me and I'll see if I like it. Also if you have any other ideas for Raider TYPES, please tell me and I'll see if they work. I do not need Raider gang names or stories. This mod will focus on Raider TYPES. Levels: I will be removing the level 1 Raiders from the game. It is stupid to think that the Raiders have been living this long in the wasteland without any fighting skills or experience. The two ways I can fix up Raider levels is with fixed levels or my take on "scaled" levels. The fixed levels will be in increments of repeating 6s and 7s, as they seem to be a good place to have the next tier without being too little or too much. This is more inline with the rest of Fallout 4 so it would be a much easier thing to balance and implement. Similar to OBIS, "scaled" will only make them a little more powerful as the player levels up. There will be a strict different in power between the tier 1 and tier 2 for "scaled" but at least if the lower tiers show up on the higher levels, they will be weak but not too weak. This version will probably be harder to fix up since the game is not built to handle scaled enemy spawns. Making both will take too long and harder to maintain, so only one will be made. Current levels for both are listed here in this spoiler for reference. Fixed: Levels 3, 9, 16, 22, 29, 35, 42, 48, 55, 61 "Scaled": Levels 1-10, 13-20, 23-30, 33-40, 43-50, 53-60, 63-70, 73-80, 83-90, 93-100 Gear: I love the current Raider look and variety. Plenty of armors, weapons, accessories, and chems make them unpredictable. I just want to give it a little boost. I would like to add in several armors like the Diamond City Guard and Synth armor pieces to give the Raiders a more scavenged look. You may complain that it would be strange to find Raiders wearing pieces Synth gear, but I am sure that if a Raider survived an Institue attack like your character did, the Raider would use their gear as well! I also see that some clothing/armor pieces are used less than others so I'd probably fix up a few things about the generation as well. If anyone finds any armor pieces that will fit a scavenged look for Raiders just let me know :D Level list: It breaks my heart to do this, but I need to remake the Raider level list :sad: As much as I enjoy the fixed leveling of the Raiders, I can't stand going to Corvega Assembly Plant and mass murdering level 1 Raiders with no challenge. Probably sets the level based on a hard number depending on the area. I'll need to figure out what to do with that. Of course if people still want the normal progression of Raiders I am happy to comply with that if it turns out to be easy enough to interchange. Raider Faces plus Ghoul Raiders: This would not be any mod of mine if it did not add in more variety! I will be adding in a ton more faces to the small pool of faces designated for Raiders. I will also be adding Ghouls into the mix as it is approiate to do so. Bosses: Turns out there is a list for bosses, I want to make a set of bosses for this new list since currently it just has a higher tier of regular raiders. Main concern is that people might see the same boss twice, but I make a ton of different bosses I can minimize that. Probably start with bosses based on the enemy types first then start getting creative with them. Probably have to get user support on this! If you guys Have ideas for random bosses ideas just grab me and I'll make it :D Update 1: Looking at the encounter zone section using FO4Edit, I have found my hard level theory was correct. I am now in a process of creating a mod that sets these encounter levels to follow the player level more closely Update 2: Added in Explosive specialist raiders to the list, renamed a few tier names so there are not repeat names for other tiers of the Raiders and other creatures Update 3: Changed a few names up to prevent confusion. Added a new Stealthboy focused Raider and removed it from the Scamp list. Update 4: Added in 6 more Raider type ideas, boss names, expands on mod's ideals, spelling edits, and reorganization of names Update 5: Added in a new poison type enemy idea, makes that damage type more relevant, expanded on random bosses section Update 6: Added in a Unarmed type enemy, changed a few names from Punk since several of those works well in Boxer Edited December 21, 2015 by Indigoblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boombro Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I think the changes you want to apply are very good already.Fo4 may have a simple level list system, who knows. What about tamer raiders? Riders have dogs, but what about Maor!? A ridder that is easy to kill but has strong pets would be cool, or robots! I'm sure some riders now how to fix a robot to make it work for them. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citre Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I think the changes you want to apply are very good already.Fo4 may have a simple level list system, who knows. What about tamer raiders? Riders have dogs, but what about Maor!? A ridder that is easy to kill but has strong pets would be cool, or robots! I'm sure some riders now how to fix a robot to make it work for them. No? level list system is indeed very easy I'm looking at it now in fo4editassuming there's nothing hidden or whatever of course it's very simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boombro Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 level list system is indeed very easy I'm looking at it now in fo4editassuming there's nothing hidden or whatever of course it's very simpleLet hope so, because that it means better and more mods that cover such areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigoblade Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 level list system is indeed very easy I'm looking at it now in fo4editassuming there's nothing hidden or whatever of course it's very simpleLet hope so, because that it means better and more mods that cover such areas. From what I have seen with the Raiders and the progression outwards from Vault 111, it seems that each area has a hard level that the level list follows. It's good for how Fallout 4 is like, but for playthroughs that last past level 40 fighting Raiders is boring. I might have to remove the hard caps on areas or wait for something to come out to remove them. Of course this is all speculation and I need to wait till I get a better idea where to look how the game decides what level the spawns should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc2the2nd Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) First of all this looks like a great project already, and judging by my many hundreds of hours playing with your obis mod for skyrim, this will end up being a top tier, must have mod for me in f4. There's one thing I don't see listed in your outline for this project that I adored about obis; this being the bandit patrols feature. I could be imagining this but it seems to me that factions are for the most part rather static once again in this entry from Bethesda. If at all possible I'd love to see a patrols feature re-implemented in your f4 version of the organised bandits mod. Other than that I'm also interested in seeing what your take on Raider strongholds/bases would be for different types. Bethesda's take on this seems to have amounted to random clutter somewhat related to the pre-war purpose of the location with a few terminal entries or notes recognizing the raiders awareness of their surroundings. I wonder if this could be further developed to include such things as specialized trap placement more interesting than a few turrets scattered throughout. My ideas are robot use, radiation traps, loot baiting (signs to attract wastelanders, treasure to attract adventurers to specific traps within the area), and specialized creature taming/use (as mentioned by Boombro). I'm sure there a few examples of this type of thing in the vanilla game that I'm missing, but integration with your raider types would be just fantastic. Edit: I'd also like to see a raider type that specializes in the use of explosives. I didn't see that in your types list either. Explosives are so much fun. :P Edited November 22, 2015 by rc2the2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunslinger6792 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 What the OP has mentioned thus far sounds fantastic. I'm at level 27 and raiders are already becoming rather easy to defeat and I'm playing on hard. I hope you include different raider groups like you did in your bandit mod because as raiders stand now there just kinda there. In FNV each raider group was named and had a general reason for being there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigoblade Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 First of all this looks like a great project already, and judging by my many hundreds of hours playing with your obis mod for skyrim, this will end up being a top tier, must have mod for me in f4. There's one thing I don't see listed in your outline for this project that I adored about obis; this being the bandit patrols feature. I could be imagining this but it seems to me that factions are for the most part rather static once again in this entry from Bethesda. If at all possible I'd love to see a patrols feature re-implemented in your f4 version of the organised bandits mod. Other than that I'm also interested in seeing what your take on Raider strongholds/bases would be for different types. Bethesda's take on this seems to have amounted to random clutter somewhat related to the pre-war purpose of the location with a few terminal entries or notes recognizing the raiders awareness of their surroundings. I wonder if this could be further developed to include such things as specialized trap placement more interesting than a few turrets scattered throughout. My ideas are robot use, radiation traps, loot baiting (signs to attract wastelanders, treasure to attract adventurers to specific traps within the area), and specialized creature taming/use (as mentioned by Boombro). I'm sure there a few examples of this type of thing in the vanilla game that I'm missing, but integration with your raider types would be just fantastic. Edit: I'd also like to see a raider type that specializes in the use of explosives. I didn't see that in your types list either. Explosives are so much fun. :tongue:Patrols: As I created patrols as a way spawn in more bandits for testing purposes, I can see that creating a patrols mod for Raiders could be fun. Unlike Skyrim however, there are less places to put Raiders since they are very common and deliberately placed. It'll be on a backburner, but if I find a way to get Raiders spawn in a believable way, I'd do it for testing and as a mod. Raider specialization based on location: When I was writing down this idea page I had a discussion with some friends about this. I either make Raiders specialization based on the individual or the location. I would need a full list of Raider locations in the game, and there are plenty that are not even on the pipboy's map. If I do something, I want to do it complete as I can, so leaving out some locations would bug me. Would be a fun project but not something I can work on that won't drive me crazy. Expansion of Raider bases would also fall within the Raider Patrol mod so it would fall under that catergory. Robots: Hmm... Gunners use alot of robots, but I might think of something Lootbaiting: Would be more of an encounter than a Raider type so would also fall under Raider Patrols Taming: Need to figure out what animals would be tamable Explosives: Yeah I can see that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigoblade Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 What the OP has mentioned thus far sounds fantastic. I'm at level 27 and raiders are already becoming rather easy to defeat and I'm playing on hard. I hope you include different raider groups like you did in your bandit mod because as raiders stand now there just kinda there. In FNV each raider group was named and had a general reason for being there.Glad you feel the same about Raider difficulty.Making literal "gangs" for Fallout would be much harder than you think, there are way more Raider camps in Fallout 4 than I expected and finding suitable ways of making them special would be a nightmare. However it is a project I would love to try out... Maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruor34 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Hey, I remember OBIS in Skyrim and it was good stuff, here are some of my suggestions: As you said, raiders make a living killing other people... get rid of any raiders below level 8 or so. No raider should have an endurance stats below 5. Keep in mind the player is human and the raiders are AI... make people at a disadvantage in the start and have to *gasp* put some effort in to beating raiders at a low level. If people dont like it, they can always turn it down to easy until they get a good weapon/perk setup. I would like a challenge. Maybe include a hard mode where raiders start no lower then level 10 or so? Something I would love to see is a major reduction in the numbers of female raiders. Lets put this into perspective: Raiders rob people, kill people, mutilate them, hang corpses from hooks, (possibly eat them) but... they respect women?.... uh no. It really pulls any immersion out for me when as an example I go into the base near Sanctuary with the big satellite dish outside, and the boss is Ack Ack, a 120 pound girl with no muscles holding a minigun? Maybe remove the female raiders and then make an Amazon tribe of raider women or something? Also, if there have to be raider females, they should at least look the part, they should have a strong/fat (going by the triangle at the start of character creation) body, you shouldn't be looking at a dead runway models body after taking their armor. I know you mentioned melee but I'd like to see more melee raiders.. provided they can be given good AI. They should try to flank you and use grenades to flush you out for the gun wielding raiders.... Not just charge my combat shotgun in a line. I'd like to see an elite group of raiders, guys with high end, well modded weapons and armor. Competition for the high end Gunners. Please dont do level scaling, just make enemies static, (like Requiem for Skyrim, I'm sure you know that mod) There are some areas a level 10 player should go and just DIE. Whats wrong with that? Whats the point in leveling up if everything is scaled to us and easy? Turrets are a big part of most raider bases. They need a big boost in power, turrets are just free scrap at the moment. I'd like to see them boosted by 100% in every stat, damage, health, armor. Please while you are at it make enemies more aggressive, more aware (way too easy to sneak) and not give up looking... they should honestly stay on alert 4X+the length they do in game currently. Edited November 25, 2015 by Cruor34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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